- Our special teams have been pretty bad - Penalties continue to haunt us
I feel like penalties have haunted us since 1999. On the ST front, there were some concerns about this new guy coming in. I don't think his ST has done particularly well in recent years.
Quote:
They’re ranked in the bottom five in the NFL in eight special-teams categories: expected points added by special teams (31st), field goal percentage (29th), opponent field goal percentage (32nd), net yards per punt 28th), opponent net yards per punt (30th), opponent yards per kick return (28th), average starting field position on kickoff returns (30th) and opponent field goal blocks (30th).While the Cardinals haven’t been ranked that low in that many categories before in Arians’ tenure, they’ve still consistently hovered near the bottom in some of the same categories over the past five years.
I don't think the QB position is in terrible shape. Last year it was terrible. There has to be some degree of improvement with TT, Stanton, and Baker.
I think we are at least in pretty good shape with the arrow pointing up. We aren't going to be threats to score 40 each week but do think we can punch it in to the 30's this year.
If the D keeps playing the way they seem to be playing at this point, other team aren't going routinely throw up 28-34 points.
Our coaching should be better. Haley now runs the O, which in turn allows Hue to focus on the forest and not just focus on a few of the trees. That has to help in the big picture.
Fun times on the lakefront this year!
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I hate to be a downer and I am not saying I am right, but, we have two--maybe three-- huge issues.
No problem ... disagreement and debate is how i learn ... its a real shame theres not more of it on important issues ... but thats another discussion ... i actually like it more when u disagree with me ... cause i respect your football and know u know the game better than I .. so when u disagree i’m FORCED TO LEARN ... i have to either
- be able to intelligenty defend my stance
OR
- alter or change my opinion based on the new info u provided (ie: LEARNING) ...
Thank u for taking the time to disagree with me and explain why most times ... i appreciate that ... and i mean that ... i’m not being a jerk here ... i’ve Learned a lot from u over the years .... thanks for taking the time to teach ...
Quote:
1. Our QBs look awful to me. Both hold the ball too long. Both are short. Both don't throw w/anticipation. I know Baker can improve, but man, I think our QB position is going to be a huge weakness this particular year.
I’m not so sure i’d Say awful ... actually I wouldn’t say that ... but i do agree with your concerns (forgot to mention u also validate my thoughts sometimes) ...
The QB position will not be a strength this year ... i can go that far ... last year the QB position was a major weakness IMO .... this year .... TT takes care of the ball ... that alone will make it a HUGE UPGRADE from last year ....
Despite TT’s shortcomings hes a slightly below average to average QB IMO ... that to me is not a major weakness ....
Quote:
2. The Hue Hate Club is comprised of members of the media and the fan base. When Taylor shows who he really is, the ranting for Baker to start will skyrocket. This will lead to more negative talk about Hue. And that is not a good thing, no matter how you slice it.
No, its not .... heres where we differ ... the fans and press going after Hue is a bad thing ... its not good ... i agree with that ...
Now ... consider this for a second .... the thief has not fired Hue through 1 - 31 ... he did not fire Hue after the bye week debacle and aftermath .... the thief didnt cave to the pressure then ... what makes u think he will cave now especially with Hue having an entirely different job this year? ...
The 2nd big piece in this ... Dorsey ... you’ve commented u believe that Dorsey and Hue get along good ... and i agree ... it appears there working together and actually like each other ... do u agree with that ... IF u do ... don’t u think Dorsey will have Hue’s back and make sure he gets a fair shake? .. especially considering that Dorsey said Hue was basically in a row boat with no oars talent wise ....
I agree the fans and press crapping on Hue is a bad thing ... i also think the thief and Dorsey dont fold to the pressure based off the above ....
Let me know what u think ... hopefully every once in awhile I can re-pay the favor and provide a different way to look at something and slightly alter your thinking on it ...
Quote:
--The Josh Gordon issue sounds fishy to me. I do not buy into the Hard Knocks excuse like you do.
I never bought into it ... not sure why u do that ... maybe this time u just mis read me since i’ve Really only commented on it once ...
I said I have NO CLUE what happend and if i had TO GUESS ... i’d say it was the hard knocks thing but thats just a GUESS ...
Thats hardly buying in ... unless we have very different definitions of buying in ... *L* ...
Not sure why Josh wasn’t here has any bearing on what happens starting 9/9 .. if he keeps his demons in check and stays healthy ... we are going to have ONE HELL OF AN OFFENSE ...
We have some weapons bro ... theres no denying that ....
- Our special teams have been pretty bad - Penalties continue to haunt us
You correct penalties by being focused and disciplined. I can't remember, maybe it was Petine or maybe Mangini...he had guys running laps of the field every time they were off side or held. Our penalty rate went down as I recall. I wouldn't mind seeing some of that for the next few weeks.
As for special teams, to me it isn't all that much about the coach unless he is a total idiot. Jones has been in the league long enough to prove he isn't that, so to me it comes down to players. It's going to boil down to who we keep and play on special teams.
Will the bottom of the roster and fringe starters who play special teams be good enough players to field a good special teams unit? It's not so much about what type of kick coverage Amos calls.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Diam, he's in such good shape I think I'm going to make him SWIM out to the boat. Lol.
He's been a hard sell.
Enjoy this Vers. It's the beginning of a great ride.
...
How about u make him swim from out near the Isle where the water is always warm and the sky is always blue instead of to the boat in that crap ass water by the shores of the lake ... we are a customer service oriented group ...
Its OK .. we aren’t doing any selling bro ... the dawgs will do it for us .... all were doing is pointing out LOGICALLY WHY were gonnA be a different team this year ...
Subtle yet huge difference ...
Vers will come around at his own speed ... it may take til we hit the 6 win mark for him ... but he’ll get there .... eventually ..
I don't think the QB position is in terrible shape. Last year it was terrible. There has to be some degree of improvement with TT, Stanton, and Baker.
I think we are at least in pretty good shape with the arrow pointing up. We aren't going to be threats to score 40 each week but do think we can punch it in to the 30's this year.
If the D keeps playing the way they seem to be playing at this point, other team aren't going routinely throw up 28-34 points.
Our coaching should be better. Haley now runs the O, which in turn allows Hue to focus on the forest and not just focus on a few of the trees. That has to help in the big picture.
Fun times on the lakefront this year!
U ready to join us on the Isle bro ... it sure sounds Ike it ....
Many will come around after we punk the Steelers in the opener.
Not only are we going win, we are going to beat them.
Your definetly ready for the Isle .. matter of fact .. any shot you’ll help me out with any legal stuff i may encounter or would u maybe like to run the 2nd ferry or do anything else on the Isle ...
Hmmm ... u think were gonna beat the Stilers on 9/9 ... a very optimistic dawg ... u wanna run marketing? .. public relations? ... pep rally’s? ...
What would u like to do to help the cause dawg ... let me know and the job(s) yours ...
I don't think the QB position is in terrible shape. Last year it was terrible. There has to be some degree of improvement with TT, Stanton, and Baker.
I think we are at least in pretty good shape with the arrow pointing up. We aren't going to be threats to score 40 each week but do think we can punch it in to the 30's this year.
If the D keeps playing the way they seem to be playing at this point, other team aren't going routinely throw up 28-34 points.
Our coaching should be better. Haley now runs the O, which in turn allows Hue to focus on the forest and not just focus on a few of the trees. That has to help in the big picture.
Fun times on the lakefront this year!
U ready to join us on the Isle bro ... it sure sounds Ike it ....
Whip’s on the way with the ferry ...
WELCOME TO THE ISLE DAWG ...
I have been on it since we drafted Baker and some of the other moves we have made..
If we do something early, I think we can push for the division title. I don't see Pittsburgh and Baltimore as being able to simply push us aside.
I mean, why not us? Other teams have gone from crap to gold in a season. 2018 is our turn.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself in that particular post. And you don't have to butter me up in order to disagree w/me. I enjoy honest debate.
Quote:
Quote: 1. Our QBs look awful to me. Both hold the ball too long. Both are short. Both don't throw w/anticipation. I know Baker can improve, but man, I think our QB position is going to be a huge weakness this particular year.
I’m not so sure i’d Say awful ... actually I wouldn’t say that
You're right. That was a poor choice of wording on my part. Taylor is an improvement over Kizer and I don't think that can be argued. I do have some issues w/his game, though.
--I really haven't studied his pre-snap reads in order to comment. I don't know if he checks out of plays, recognizes where the blitz is coming from, reads the coverage that is being shown, etc. So, I can't praise him or criticize him on this particular point.
--I do know he is short. I see him taking deeper drops than taller qbs. That can lead to problems because your OT's like to steer edge rushers past the pocket. That job is now going to be considerably harder. Also, quick pot passes over the middle are probably not going to be in our arsenal due to him not being able to see over the lineman.
--I do think he holds the ball too long. He doesn't throw w/anticipation. He waits until guys break open before he releases the ball. This trait will lead to more sacks and take away a lot of potential big plays.
--I do not think he reads post-snap coverages very well and that is one of the reasons he holds the ball so long. He doesn't seem to trust what he sees.
--He is a good runner and will make plays w/his legs.
--I think he has a great attitude and seems to be embracing the leadership part of the position. I think that will be tested when so many people outside of the building are calling for Baker to replace him.
--I think his accuracy is inconsistent. He throws w/marvelous accuracy at times. He really floats the deep pass in there. However, other times his throws are wildly inaccurate. Think about some of those throws he threw over the dudes on the sidelines in that playoff loss. And I am pretty sure you know what I'm talking about w/his accuracy because you lived close to Buffalo for years.
--He doesn't turn the ball over very much. That's good.
My bottom line is that he will be an upgrade over Kizer. However, I don't think he is they type of qb to go out and win you games. He's not dynamic enough w/his arm or reads. I think he is the type of qb to leave a ton of points on the field. Thus, while we have improved the position, it still won't be enough to turn our offense into a dynamic one or even solid.
This is longer than I intended. I'll come back for the other points in a bit.
Butter u up? ... .... ya, thats my style ... sheesh .. its like u dont know me at all .. way to graciously accept a compliment .... ...
Not sure i disagree with a single thing you’ve said .... i’ve Said alt of them my selfand know TT very well ... u summed it up quite well ...
Bottom line ... like u said he’s not going to win u any games if u get down by a couple scores .... he’s not a comeback type qb ...
He’s also good enough to lead this team to 6 - 8 wins ... hes not a BUM and this team has talent .... we got some players on both sides of the ball ... its not Iike we’re talking 10, 11 or 12 wins ...
Crap bro ... i’m talking 6, 7 or 8 wins ... 2 of these numbers are below 500 .... and none of them are a winning record ... it’s not like i’m shooting for the moon ...
Were a team that still has issues ... were not ready to be super bowl contenders and the odds of us making the playoffs are extremely extremely extremely thin ... almost non existent .... i’m not setting my sites anywhere near those lofty goals were not near ready for ... were talking 6 - 8 wins ..
Its OK dawg ... there’ll is always a spot for all dawgs on the Isle of Optimism .... no rush dawg, we’ll be there when your ready
Quote: 2. The Hue Hate Club is comprised of members of the media and the fan base. When Taylor shows who he really is, the ranting for Baker to start will skyrocket. This will lead to more negative talk about Hue. And that is not a good thing, no matter how you slice it.
No, its not .... heres where we differ ... the fans and press going after Hue is a bad thing ... its not good ... i agree with that ...
Now ... consider this for a second .... the thief has not fired Hue through 1 - 31 ... he did not fire Hue after the bye week debacle and aftermath .... the thief didnt cave to the pressure then ... what makes u think he will cave now especially with Hue having an entirely different job this year? ...
I wasn't very clear. I wasn't referring to Haslam and Dorsey firing Hue. I was talking about the negative affect it could have w/in the organization and in the locker room. This team has won one game in two years and four games in three years. Hue has done a great job of holding the team together, but at some point you have to have success in order to keep the locker room cohesive.
Our schedule is brutal. Opening up w/the Steelers and Saints is about as tough as it gets. We also play the Rats and Chargers early. I think the Chargers win the AFC West this year.
The fans and media will hammer Hue incessantly if we get off to a poor start. The cries for playing Baker will intensify if TT plays as we both expect him to play. Keeping the team united under all of that duress is an awfully difficult task.
Quote:
Quote: --The Josh Gordon issue sounds fishy to me. I do not buy into the Hard Knocks excuse like you do.
I never bought into it ... not sure why u do that ... maybe this time u just mis read me since i’ve Really only commented on it once ...
I said I have NO CLUE what happend and if i had TO GUESS ... i’d say it was the hard knocks thing but thats just a GUESS ...
Thats hardly buying in ... unless we have very different definitions of buying in ... *L* ...
Not sure why Josh wasn’t here has any bearing on what happens starting 9/9 .. if he keeps his demons in check and stays healthy ... we are going to have ONE HELL OF AN OFFENSE .
It comes down to this, Diam. I do not trust Josh Gordon to believe that he will be w/the team all year. I'm not saying he won't be, but I sure as heck don't trust him. He's lied too many times. He's had too many issues in the past in order for me to count on him. I hope he plays all year, but I would not bet a single dime that he will.
If we lose Gordon, that changes things big time for this offense. Teams will constantly roll their coverages toward Landry. They will scheme to take him away and none of the other WRs on this team have proven squat in the NFL. We can say that Callaway and Higgins have potential, but they haven't done a damn thing. Furthermore, the drama of Josh having any further issues be a negative on a team w/qb issues and the above scenario I just discussed regarding Hue.
At the end of the day, I see us winning 5 or 6 games this year. However, I think the possibility for winning 3 games is greater than us winning 8 games. So, I'm not jumping on that ferry yet. I'll keep my feet planted on solid ground and hope a storm doesn't come racing across the waters and capsizes your ferry of believers.
Browns attracting high number of bets in Las Vegas
Sportsbooks struggled to attract any action on the Cleveland Browns from the betting public the past two years.
That changed this offseason.
Bettors at multiple Las Vegas sportsbooks have been backing the Browns to win the AFC North, the AFC title and even the Super Bowl.
"There are more bets on the Browns to win AFC North than the other three teams combined. Only the Raiders and Steelers have more bets to win the AFC. The public likes the Browns, and I'm not sure why."
At MGM sportsbooks, the Browns have attracted more bets to win the Super Bowl than the Atlanta Falcons, Kansas City Chiefs and Jacksonville Jaguars, who were playoff teams last season. Cleveland is listed at 60-1 to win the Super Bowl at MGM.
"The Browns are our only liability right now," Jay Rood, MGM's vice president of race and sports, said of his book's odds to win the Super Bowl. "We're sitting pretty well on every other team except Cleveland."
Cleveland has won one game over the past two seasons and went 0-16 in 2017. The Browns overhauled their roster in the offseason, adding quarterback Tyrod Taylor, wide receiver Jarvis Landry and running back Carlos Hyde. They also drafted quarterback Baker Mayfield with the No. 1 overall pick.
The Browns' season win total opened at 5.5 and has been bet up to 6 at some books. Two-thirds of the bets on Cleveland's win total have been on the over at Caesars Palace.
"There are more bets on the Browns to win the AFC North than the other three teams combined," a sportsbook manager for Caesars Palace told ESPN. "Only the Raiders and Steelers have more bets to win the AFC [than the Browns]. The public likes the Browns, and I'm not sure why."
The Browns are 7-1 at Caesars' books to win the AFC North and 20-1 to win the AFC championship.
Over the past two seasons, sportsbooks have tried to push up the point spreads to attract money from the public on Cleveland, but week after week found themselves needing the Browns. The inflated lines on Cleveland often attracted sharp money on the Browns, Rood said.
"I almost guarantee you that is going to flip this year," Rood added. "I think we're going to see more sharp money come against the Browns this year and maybe more public money on the Browns this time around."
Cleveland hosts the Philadelphia Eagles on Thursday in Week 3 of the preseason. The Browns are 4-point favorites over the defending Super Bowl champion Eagles.
Hue Jackson on heightened expectations from outside: "Very excited. Probably more excited than I've been the first two years. Because winning is in this group. I've never been more confident about a group, having chance to have success."
I'd hope he feels better this year than the past two haha
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Hue Jackson on heightened expectations from outside: "Very excited. Probably more excited than I've been the first two years. Because winning is in this group. I've never been more confident about a group, having chance to have success."
Hue Jackson on heightened expectations from outside: "Very excited. Probably more excited than I've been the first two years. Because winning is in this group. I've never been more confident about a group, having chance to have success."
The first two games were a microcosm of who TT is with a hint of OPTIMISM mixed in ...
First game he was decisive and made some good reads ... found the one on one matchups and mismatches and got rid of the ball quick and was on target ...
Second game he held the ball to long .... question is why .... bad reads ... guys not getting open .... TT missing open guys do to poor reads ....
With what Haley did in Pitt with Ben ... i would imagine there going to try and mask TT’s penchant for holding on to the ball too long by designing many plays where its one, two three and out .....
The reason for OPTIMISM comes form the first play of the year ... he threw the ball up to Landry in one on one coverage when Landry was covered very well .... he recognized it was one on one and threw it and trusted Landry to go get it ... i NEVER saw that from him in Buffalo ... thats one of the throws that he would have sailed 10 yards out of bounds cause he didn’t want to risk a pick ...
TT’s also never played for an offensive minded coach .... he payed for Ryan and then a guy that didn’t want him .... he’s never had the offensive minds or coaching he has now ...
His upside is limited due to the arm strength, inconsistent accuracy and his tendency to be to cautious ... but hes not some BUM ... he can do some things ... lets see what happens with good coaching and offensive minds that will utilize his strengths instead of relying on Shady in both the running and passsing games ....
Like vers has pointed out ... dude has hs issues .... lets see how playing with this talent and this coaching staff does to “masking” his weaknesses and can improve his productivity ...
Its not going to change who he is ... but it can make him more productive ...
IMHO, both TT and Landry have been two very good things. Actually with Haley in here, I think that's going to be a major difference and we are going to be competitive on O.
Against the Bills, TT had guys running free and missed badly or threw it away. This is why Bills fans were taking up collections for bus tickets out of town for Taylor. He is however great for Baker to mimic with his practice and study habbits.
Damm ... just watched the 3rd episode of hard knocks this morning ... i’m even more optimistic than i was before ... there’s a few things that really impressed me and give me even more hope than before ...
- I LOVE Haley and Williams blunt, no bs straight to the brutally honest truth style .... LOVE LOVE LOVE that ....
- u can see the competition in practice has elevated the level of practice ... u either compete or get left behind ... and these guys aren’t used to being left behind ... u can just tell they want it ... it maybe the cameras ... dont know .. but its made us a better football team ...
These guys seem hell bent on turning this around and they know they have the talent to do it ... its VERY EXCITING to see ... i’m not used to it ...
One of the hard knocks dudes mentioned it was the most serious camp h’es been around .. bet he could have used the word competitive and spirited and been dead nuts accurate ...
This TEAM IS DIFFERENT .... in more ways than one ... i’ve WAY MORE EXCITED THAN I SHOULD BE for what i expect to be a 6 - 8 wins season ...
I've only really watched him in Buffalo. I didn't follow him when he was a 6th round choice and back-up in Baltimore.
I actually like the dude. He's a nice guy. Great character as far as I know. Doesn't turn it over. Works hard. Huge overachiever.
He's just limited and the fans are going to rip him apart when reality sets in.
I don't see him as limited, I see him as a role player, and you can win Super Bowls with Roleplayers. The Bucs, The Ravens, and just recently the Philadelphia Eagles done just that. (face it Foles ins't a franchise QB)
the Browns need to get back to their roots which is:
1. Running the damn football 2. Stopping the run and playing good hard nosed D 3. Winning the Battle of Field position
If Chubb and Hyde have less then 30 carries a game between the two of them we doing it WRONG and will lose games.
the last time we had a winning record was back in 2007...look at Jamal Lewis numbers that year..he had over 1300 yards rushing, the following year he only had 1000 and our win numbers dropped off too.
We gotta run the damn ball....the last two times we have been competitive, we have done so by riding the running game (William Green in 2001 and Jamal Lewis in 2007) we need to get back to it.
if we have less then 30 rushing attempts per game this year we are going to struggle. We need to just play good solid fundamental football like 1-3 above and not try and get cute. I think Haley knows this though. I really like Haley as an OC, and he isn't adverse to running the pig skin.
We need to let Hyde and Chubb run downhill hard and often. We could really do something special this year if only we are willing to run the ball.
Sometimes the word "chemistry" is over used and never really defined.
That is because it is hard to define. I have been really into baseball lately. My two favorite teams are doing well the Tribe and the Braves.
The Braves have veterans like Markakis and Freddy Freeman. But they have four young guys that are playing great. You can see the chemistry in the dugout. They love playing ball together.
Watching Hard Knocks. I am seeing chemistry. These players are playing with confidence. It really seems like they believe they are good.
Maybe they will get beat up when it starts in a couple weeks but I see a team nothing like what I have seen in the past wearing brown.
I love seeing Mitchell get in Landry's grill. These guys are getting after it. Garrett looks sick fast.
You know the offensive players are in awe of Josh Grodon's skills.
All I can say is some of you guys have been programmed for all things going bad.
QB is the best situation we have had since 99, no ifs, ands, butt about it.
Holding onto ball too long. I hear this every year and about every QB who plays in the NFL. Some time or another its cannot be denied in its interpretation.
Yeah I know Brady holds onto that ball, way too long...lol
OL depth is an issue.
Is our D that awesome?
But our QB situation. Best its been in a long long time...pre 1995.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
... 
