I wrote the following on the "Cut" thread in response to a question you asked me about us not being very far apart on the win total. I think it fits better here. Here is my response to your question.
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You're right in that we aren't that far apart on our predictions of how many games we are going to win. There are some reasons why we are seemingly disagreeing.
1. While I am predicting we win 5 or 6 games, I think it is more likely that we win 3 than us winning 8 or 9. I think you see it the other way around.
2a. You said something like us being 3 and 2 or 2 and 3 after 5 games. You could be right, but I see that as unlikely. As of right now, I am fairly certain that are underdogs in each of the first 5 games.
2b. I see this young team who has only won 1 game in the past two years and having many new parts taking time to get their act together. I can envision us becoming better and better as the season progresses.
3. I place a lot of importance on the quarterbacks in the NFL. I think we are weak in this area. Improved from last year, but I don't think our QB is going to win us games. Frankly, I am having a hard time getting beyond this one.
4. While I try and fight the urge, I'm a damn homer, too. LOL I look at all the national power rankings and we are either at the very bottom, or very near the bottom, in all of them. You may scoff at this one, but I went to FanDuel to create some daily leagues yesterday, and our guys are ranked so low. I think we might be guilty of overestimating our talent and I think a lot of that has to do w/just how devoid of talent/experience we were last year. Most importantly, Vegas has us w/the longest odds of winning our division. You gotta bet more money than you would win on the Steelers. The Rats are second and even the Bengals have better odds of winning the division than the Browns do. There are legit reasons for all of the above, Diam.
5. I reply to you because you are not as sensitive as others. When you talk over and over about how good our talent is and the Isle of Optimism, many people forget what your prediction for our win total is. They see all your optimism and visions of the playoffs and/or a large number of wins.
With all of that said, I am more optimistic about the team than I have been in over a decade. I think they will struggle to win games this year, but we have done the following:
--significantly upgraded the talent and experience.
--Have a very good coaching staff.
--Have a FO that is better than the previous ones.
--Have a GM and HC who are working together.
--We finally have ownership showing some stability. I credit a lot of that to Dee becoming more involved w/the team.
--We still have money and future draft picks to look forward to.
The key, in my opinion, is to not raise the expectations too high this year and fire more people. Firing guys has been a HUGE factor in why we have been so poor over the years. New hires equate to roster upheaval and we lose talented young guys and key vets to bring in new guys. I am preaching patience w/this group. I want to see them get a chance and I feel that unfair expectations could lead to the mob calling for more changes. That is the last thing we need.
I think that he's looking at both jail time along with a suspension. (conduct detrimental to the NFL)
I don't see him being on an NFL field this coming season.
Are you kidding? Out for the season?
This was supposed to be a big free agent signing on defense. See what this D looks like with him out there next to Jamie Collins, 2 vet Lb's
Hey that reminds me of another time 10+ years ago when the Browns had a free agent Lb signing,
would have been a strong group next to the guy the Browns already had on the roster, and just this week, 2 weeks before regular season, of that year, he was lost,
and we never got to see the two LB's on the field for the Browns at the same time. One of the two players was named Earl something I think. ( I'm sure he came from the Steelers.)
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
You're right in that we aren't that far apart on our predictions of how many games we are going to win. There are some reasons why we are seemingly disagreeing.
1. While I am predicting we win 5 or 6 games, I think it is more likely that we win 3 than us winning 8 or 9. I think you see it the other way around.
Yes i do .. you may not agree with it .. actually you’ve made it clear u don’t agree with it ... and thats OK ... I like it more when we disagree cause it gives us both the opportunity to learn .. here’s my LOGIC as th why ...
I’ve stated a million times if we had anything other than the WORST SUSTAINED QB PLAY EVER over the course of the year last year we would have won 3 or 4 games .. and i’m Pretty sure u have pretty much agreed to that statement in the past ... IF NOT, PLEASE CORRECT ME ...
U take that 3 or 4 wins we would have had with the talent on last years team ... combine it to the talent we’ve added ... and we’ve CHANGED THE MAKE UP OF THIS TEAM DRASTICALLY and i see 3 or 4 more wins ... that gets me to 6 - 8 ...
Thats my LOGIC and I’m sticking to it ... ..
Bottom line dawg ... we may debate over the number of wins ... witch is almost impossible to predict at this point cause u have no clue what injuries are going to change teams and there seasons ... but the key thing is ...
WE AGREE WERE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND THIS YEAR THINGS ARE DIFFERENT IN A POSITIVE WAY and thats what really counts ...
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2a. You said something like us being 3 and 2 or 2 and 3 after 5 games. You could be right, but I see that as unlikely. As of right now, I am fairly certain that are underdogs in each of the first 5 games.
I could care less ... right now Vegas has NO CLUE how good or bad our team is going to be ... seeing as how this years team hasn’t played a game yet ...
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2b. I see this young team who has only won 1 game in the past two years and having many new parts taking time to get their act together. I can envision us becoming better and better as the season progresses.
For the most part ... we’ve added a BUNCH of “young vets” like Landry and Randall and Hubbard and Currie .. the list is pretty long ... then there’s the mature vet in TT ..
I agree were still very young but were a MUCH MORE EXPERIENCED YOUNG ... even the pups like MG and Njoku are now 2nd year guys ... that year of experience is HUGE ...
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3. I place a lot of importance on the quarterbacks in the NFL. I think we are weak in this area. Improved from last year, but I don't think our QB is going to win us games. Frankly, I am having a hard time getting beyond this one.
And thats OK ... I don’t think TT is as inept as u think ... since day 1 we have been on the same page taming our fellow dawgs expectations on TT ... he his his flaws .. we agree on them .... i just don’t think u give him enough credit for the fact he’s NOT GOOD but he’s NOT BAD either ... not sure how to explain it ... will go in depth later today or tommorow on this one ... lots to discuss here .. dont wanna get to bogged down in one area ...
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4. While I try and fight the urge, I'm a damn homer, too. LOL I look at all the national power rankings and we are either at the very bottom, or very near the bottom, in all of them. You may scoff at this one,
I do scoff at them and for good reason ... seriously man ... come on ... these same sites going into last year had the iggles around 25 and the jags around 27 ...
#25 WON THE SB and #27 was a game away from it ... this argument has more holes in it than my ferry did yesterday ... *LOL* ...
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Most importantly, Vegas has us w/the longest odds of winning our division. You gotta bet more money than you would win on the Steelers. The Rats are second and even the Bengals have better odds of winning the division than the Browns do. There are legit reasons for all of the above, Diam.
Please go check the Iggles and Jags odds of winning there divisions and what place they were predicted to finish in last year ... while your at it ... please check what there odds were to make thier respective championships games and to win the SB ...
Thanks ...
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5. I reply to you because you are not as sensitive as others. When you talk over and over about how good our talent is and the Isle of Optimism, many people forget what your prediction for our win total is. They see all your optimism and visions of the playoffs and/or a large number of wins.
i’m no where’s near sensitive ... u dont have to worry about offending me ... *L* .....
As for the rest of it .... not sure where to go with it ... so I won’t take It anywhere ... *L* ...
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With all of that said, I am more optimistic about the team than I have been in over a decade. I think they will struggle to win games this year, but we have done the following:
--significantly upgraded the talent and experience.
--Have a very good coaching staff.
--Have a FO that is better than the previous ones.
--Have a GM and HC who are working together.
--We finally have ownership showing some stability. I credit a lot of that to Dee becoming more involved w/the team.
--We still have money and future draft picks to look forward to.
And thats all that really counts ..... this is DIFFERENT in a good way and we both see it ...
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The key, in my opinion, is to not raise the expectations too high this year and fire more people. Firing guys has been a HUGE factor in why we have been so poor over the years. New hires equate to roster upheaval and we lose talented young guys and key vets to bring in new guys. I am preaching patience w/this group. I want to see them get a chance and I feel that unfair expectations could lead to the mob calling for more changes. That is the last thing we need.
I agree ... I don’t think my Isle of Optimism thread is going to facrot in to any of the above ... ...
I agree on the above for the most part Vers ..we’ve gone round and round on this over the years .. at least i have with others ...
The problem is with WHO WE’VE HIRED ... we’ve hired CRAP ... look at um all ... FO and Coaches ... we’ve been back for almost 20 years now and have gone through HC’s and GM’s like underwear ... yet NOT ONE HC OR GM we’ve hired has even gotten a sniff at the same roll since they left ... look at the players they’ve brought in ... crap Vers in 20 years not including the last 2 drafts and the last FA period we’ve BROUGHT IN ZERO STUDS ... think of that bro ... in over 15 seasons we have managed to aquire ZERO STUDS and very very few even above average players ... u can count the number of above average players on one hand ...
TURNOVER SUCKS .. but the first step in CONTINIUTY is to hire at least COMPETENT PEOPLE ..
The thief may have FINALLY BACKED INTO a good combo ... lets hope so ...
No one on this board - or any other place on the web - is more optimistic about the Browns in 2018 than the guy who said this:
"This will be the greatest turnaround in sports history."
Hue himself has set the bar very high with the expectations that HE has created. No fan expected that kind of turnaround before Hue came out and said it...not even the Mayor of the Isle of Optimism.
And him saying this to motivate his players will be used as a weapon against him as the season wears on. Your post is more a warning of it or a precursor to it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
No...my post is to point out that no fan on this planet had the expectations that Hue himself has set.
If Hue gets canned, it won't be due to the unreasonable expectations of the fans who follow his optimistic lead...so we can be as optimistic as we want without creating undue pressure on the FO to can Hue if Hue doesn't deliver.
If Hue delivers on his promise, he will be hailed as a hero and truth-sayer.
Didn't Landry and Kirksey also allude to the fact that we could either win the Super Bowl or make the playoffs? I put those in the same category as the proclamation by Hue. In spite of any predictions from inside the organization, fans are still solely responsible for their own attitudes about the team. Good, bad or indifferent. I take responsibility for my opinion that the team will be noticeably improved. I expect that to translate to some wins. I make that determination based on what I have seen for myself. Not because I was led by a so-called pied-piper to that conclusion.
It's odd how most posters here that wanted Hue to stay this year really only wanted him to have a chance with some talent. Most of us, me included, think it's a put up or shut up year for Hue and have said so. So it's not excuses we're looking for, it's results.
But when someone is using something like this.... "This will be the greatest turnaround in sports history.".... as some gauge to judge the season by, even you have the eyes to see what that is.
Unless you're just playing blind.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It's odd how most posters here that wanted Hue to stay this year really only wanted him to have a chance with some talent. Most of us, me included, think it's a put up or shut up year for Hue and have said so. So it's not excuses we're looking for, it's results.
But when someone is using something like this.... "This will be the greatest turnaround in sports history.".... as some gauge to judge the season by, even you have the eyes to see what that is.
Unless you're just playing blind.
What?
That quote wasn't made by "Someone"...it was made by Hue. I have my own expectations...and they are no where near those of Hue. I want to see him and the team succeed...but he has yet again set himself up for scrutiny with words he should more-carefully choose.
Didn't Landry and Kirksey also allude to the fact that we could either win the Super Bowl or make the playoffs? I put those in the same category as the proclamation by Hue. In spite of any predictions from inside the organization, fans are still solely responsible for their own attitudes about the team. Good, bad or indifferent. I take responsibility for my opinion that the team will be noticeably improved. I expect that to translate to some wins. I make that determination based on what I have seen for myself. Not because I was led by a so-called pied-piper to that conclusion.
I don't know what Kirksey said exactly, but yeah, Landry said something wild like going to the SuperBowl. I think Kirksey said we should shock/surprise people this year or something.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Hue himself has set the bar very high with the expectations that HE has created. No fan expected that kind of turnaround before Hue came out and said it...not even the Mayor of the Isle of Optimism.
Any fan who "uses this" as anything more than it was is a moron. Coaches always try to motivate their team to greatness. The ultimate prize is the goal. What should he say in training camp? "Well, if we play average I will be pleased"?
He didn't create anything. Only people like yourself are trying to act like he did.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
We can't do that. We are not going to do that. We can stop right there. I'm not doing that. We are not going 1-15 or I'll be swimming in the lake over there somewhere. I know me too well. I know me and I know these guys too well. We put out this front that where we are. We are not going 1-15 next year.
Not only didn't we go 1-15, he STILL jumped into the lake!
Thanks for responding w/football talk. It was fun while it lasted, then guys like WSU, Pit, [love you Pit, but don't feed their fire,] Memphis, jfan, and device got involved. It's like they hate football talk and just want everything to be about personalities.
I'll check back later to see if anyone wants to continue w/the football conversation.
Thanks for responding w/football talk. It was fun while it lasted, then guys like WSU, Pit, [love you Pit, but don't feed their fire,] Memphis, jfan, and device got involved. It's like they hate football talk and just want everything to be about personalities.
I'll check back later to see if anyone wants to continue w/the football conversation.
You don't like the recent line of discussion because it blows up your rants about "fans expecting too much and getting coaches fired over failed expectations".
Hue has set this bar...not fans on a message board. No fan can top Hue on that expectation. So we certainly don't need to worry about getting our hopes up and getting a coach fired. Hue has taken care of that for all.
19 members on the ferry that is making it's way to the Isle of Optimism have just asked KWhip to turn the ferry around and deposit them upon solid ground.
Throw them jokers over board... I just ordered a Pina colada with one of those neat little umbrellas. This boat isn't going off course!!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
19 members on the ferry that is making it's way to the Isle of Optimism have just asked KWhip to turn the ferry around and deposit them upon solid ground.
Throw them jokers over board... I just ordered a Pina colada with one of those neat little umbrellas. This boat isn't going off course!!
Pssst. Were on an Island not a boat .... the ferry gets us to and from the island .. ..
With that said ... the hits just keep on coming ...
Josh Gordon - WR - Browns
Browns coach Hue Jackson expects Josh Gordon (hamstring) to resume practicing on Monday ahead of Week 1 against Pittsburgh.
Gordon sat out the entire preseason after reporting to the Browns on August 18. He pulled a hamstring in pre-practice conditioning. The Browns still sound confident Gordon will play against the Steelers, albeit not in a full-time role. Gordon will open the season as a boom-bust WR3 option with room for major growth if he stays healthy and establishes a bankable rapport with Tyrod Taylor.
Browns coach Hue Jackson confirmed FS Damarious Randall (knee) will resume practicing on Monday.
That puts Randall on track for Cleveland's opener against the Steelers a week from Sunday. The former first-round pick injured his knee during warmups prior to the Browns' third preseason game and went for a second opinion earlier this week. Luckily all of his tests came back clean. After spending the past few seasons at cornerback, Randall will move back to free safety, which he played in college.
Source: Nate Ulrich on Twitter
All this good news is setting us up for sumptin new and long long long overdue for us dawgs ...
Bottom line dawg ... we may debate over the number of wins ... witch is almost impossible to predict at this point cause u have no clue what injuries are going to change teams and there seasons ... but the key thing is ...
WE AGREE WERE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND THIS YEAR THINGS ARE DIFFERENT IN A POSITIVE WAY and thats what really counts ..
Yes, we are moving in the right direction. We might surprise folks, but I am sticking that we still have a ways to go for all the reasons I mentioned. One thing I forgot to add last time is that the schedule is pretty tough.
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Quote: 2a. You said something like us being 3 and 2 or 2 and 3 after 5 games. You could be right, but I see that as unlikely. As of right now, I am fairly certain that are underdogs in each of the first 5 games.
I could care less ... right now Vegas has NO CLUE how good or bad our team is going to be ... seeing as how this years team hasn’t played a game yet ...
You might care less...LOL....but, those boys know what they're doing.
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I do scoff at them and for good reason ... seriously man ... come on ... these same sites going into last year had the iggles around 25 and the jags around 27 ...
#25 WON THE SB and #27 was a game away from it ... this argument has more holes in it than my ferry did yesterday ... *LOL* ...
You might be able to point to a couple of examples, but they sure were correct about us last year. They were also correct about many other teams. There are always going to be a few surprises each year [and we might be one this year] but those guys are correct far more often than homers of individual teams.
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The thief may have FINALLY BACKED INTO a good combo ... lets hope so ...
I think the Haslam's brought in quality advisors to look at this team and make suggestions. I happen to agree w/the decisions they made. I think we are stronger as an organization than we have ever been since our rebirth.
It's odd how most posters here that wanted Hue to stay this year really only wanted him to have a chance with some talent. Most of us, me included, think it's a put up or shut up year for Hue and have said so. So it's not excuses we're looking for, it's results.
But when someone is using something like this.... "This will be the greatest turnaround in sports history.".... as some gauge to judge the season by, even you have the eyes to see what that is.
Unless you're just playing blind.
That sounds like an excuse as to why we shouldn't hold him to his statement. You can't tell me that there aren't folks here jumping to defend Hue at every turn and coming up with reasons why he won't be responsible if we come out of the gates ofer whatever. Just like with any issue, there are extremists on both sides. I was pizzed when they kept Hue on board, but I've changed my thought process a little and I really hope he can turn things around. I'm sick of losing more than anything.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Thanks for responding w/football talk. It was fun while it lasted, then guys like WSU, Pit, [love you Pit, but don't feed their fire,] Memphis, jfan, and device got involved. It's like they hate football talk and just want everything to be about personalities.
I'll check back later to see if anyone wants to continue w/the football conversation.
You're right. I owe you an apology. I always seem to forget that this is your message board and stray opinions are not allowed. You really should put that in the board rules, it would save us all many many issues and unnecessary posts. And thank you for not allowing the opinions to run rampant and keeping everyone in line. Keep up the good work.
Like most fans my hopes for this team, not unlike the team itself; is tried to Hue Jacksons' success as the Coach; so by nature most fans have a symbiotic relationship with any Head Coach. Pointing out errors, or projecting such things before they come to pass is never a wise thing to do, because of the aforementioned symbiotic relationship.
Just a note...Vegas goes on where the money is. If too much one way the odds change to get it the other way. Their evaluations is not on talent but on the bets.
So I guess following the "MONEY" works...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Garrett graded as the top edge rusher for the preseason. Lord let it continue.
Jamie Collins getting top marks for coverage and not missing a tackle. Again, hope it continues as the guy has so much ability. . . Talk of him being cut from the team a little premature!
The more things change the more they stay the same.
QB-not a turnover machine, RBs- run N/S and don't trip as much, WRs- can catch, and someone to hold the group accountable finally, Edge rushers- healthy, Secondary- real talent and competition....AND in same system for second year.
We will win some games- how many God only knows....GO Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
I was adamantly in Darnold's corner pre-draft ... and still would prefer to have him, but Baker has shown a lot more than I expected thus far
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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