DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 21 Steelers 21 Steelers Breakdown!!!

first game of the season, obviously i'm super excited to see our team with all the new faces go against our most hated opponent (i refrain from calling them rivals cause a rivarly implies we've won a decent amount of games).

here is the depth chart:

https://www.steelers.com/team/depth-chart/

So on offense, obviously we are well aware of who big ben. the guy who has historically torched us year after year, game after game.

who can forget the one game a couple seasons back, where he was injured, was the designated backup until landry jones got hurt, and then proceeding to torch us for almost 300 yards in the 1st half!

that big ben.

Antonio Brown is the biggest threat on the field for game 1. We havent had much success stopping him, and i wonder if Ward is playing since he got injured? obviously we're gonna have Ward on Brown week 1 if he plays, but since there will be times he's on an island with brown, my worries is that Brown is gonna torch the rookie.

I actually like the matchup with JuJu against Mitchell, but one thing we have to take into account is scheme: will Ward/mitchell line up wherever Brown/Smith are? or will they stick to their side of the field?

i dunno the answer to that. i also dont know which is better, them lining up with the players, or staying on their own sides of the field.

Bell didn't do training camp or preseason, just like last season. last season, we held bell to 10 carries for 32 yards. with a healthy D line this season, i expect us to be stout against the run. that being said, getting to Ben will be a challenge, as we dont know how well our line can get pressure against a very good pass blocking o line in pittsburgh. I do not feel the TE's are a huge threat, although jesse james has definitely flashed some big play ability last year. i think Peppers can lock him down most of the game.

on defense, this is where the steelers have the biggest question marks.

lets start with the secondary. Haden is still an above average corner, and still has the skills to lock decent WR's down.

but i feel like we can absolutely attack Artie Burns. Gordon or landry should be able to eat against this secondary, provided our o line can pass protect well. however, i feel like the steelers LB core could be good, and TJ watt has already shown to be an absolute stud.

steelers play a 3-4 and have a very good defensive line, but i wonder if any of their LB's not named Watt can provide an adequate pass rush?

i don't know much about their safeties.

but thats a breakdown to start a discussion. hopefully playing at home, we can get some momentum early running the ball, as well as some RPO's that play to Tyrod's strength, and keeps the steelers defense off balanced.

nobody on that team can cover Gordon. I have to wonder if anybody can cover Landry, and i expect the steelers to play a lot of zone due to that very fact. This should provide Njoku and Duke to get decent looks in the passing game.

can we run the ball? and will Tyrod not only have the time, but the confidence to pull the trigger down the field?

24-20 Browns.

One big worry: covering Bell out of the back field

Another big worry: can Ward cover Brown .. or be respectable?

Big Ben has literally owned us, so that's also troublesome.

i wonder if we have the speed at LB to cover Bell?

Kirksey has wheels. but Shobert is a bit slow in coverage.

we havent consistently covered a RB for 19 years ... it's glaring weakness

Forget all about who the Steelers are,

What about! Who the Browns are! So this is what I think it's going to take.

The Browns are going to have to protect the quarterback, better than the avg. day

The Browns are going to have to win the turnover ratio preferbably by +2 or more.

The Browns are going to have to have a better than average day throwing the football to their own receivers.

The Browns are going to have to have a better than average day from all of their Db's and pass defense in general.

Coach Hue and the Coordinators are going to have to game plan in a way which will be innovative and confusing to at least one area steelers, (meaning either to confuse the steeler offense, defense, or other)


Going to have to be secure all areas of the special teams, (I'll include penalties in special teams.)

The running game is important, it should be solid, but I think they aren't going to beat the steelers by running the ball against the steelers passing attack.

and a couple things I haven't thought of,

That I'd suspect went right if the Browns come out of this game with a Win.

Good thread and some good thoughts.

On offense:

--I would come out throwing and mix in the run rather than the other way around.

--I would run Gordon on slants and 9 routes.

--I would run Callaway on 9 and 1 routes.

--I would line Landry up all over the place. Wide, slot, backfield. I'd bring him in motion. I'd run him in the flat, drag routes, crossing routes, and 1 or 2 deep 9 routes. I would do everything I could to get him the ball.

--I would run Njoku on seam routes and deep crossing routes. I would not work him underneath.

--I would mix in the run w/off-tackle runs w/Hyde. The more our passing game clicks, the more I would mix in the run. I would even run some delays and draws.

--I would love to work Duke in on some screens, waggles routes, and even crossing routes, but I have a sneaky feeling that Haley won't use him as much as Hue did.

Summary: I think we have the weapons to exploit their D. However, I am concerned about the QB position and if we have the talent at that position to take advantage. I also worry about penalties and missed assignments due to the newness of almost everything regarding our O.

On Defense:

--I would strongly considering having Ward cover JuJu and put Mitchell on AB. I would then roll our FS and Kirksey to AB's side of the field w/an under/over zone coverage.

--I would try and come after Ben hard. I would bring SS blitzes w/Peppers and/or Kennard. I would even have Kirksey blitz some on some Double A gap blitzes.

Summary:

Good luck. We gotta hope Bell doesn't play or is rusty again. We absolutely must generate pressure on Ben. They are as talented as any offense in the NFL, so this will be a really good test.

They've struggled the past few years when teams run right at them, especially after the first few drives. Problem is, we could easily be down 2-3 TDs by that point.

IMO if we're going to win it'll have to be something like 14-13 or 16-14

Should be a very interesting game. I'm sure Antonio/JuJu/Le'Veon will do well but my concerns are about the Steelers defense. They have gotten some new talent in on defense,
but will have to see how all of it gels. I expect a close game, Steelers winning something like 27-24.

TJ Watt really played well at times last year; I remember thinking he could haunt us for a decade

I hope one of your assistants gives your pre game speeches ... ....

I received a PM about the routes. Sorry about that, guys. I try and not do that on posts. I just had a lot of thoughts on my mind w/the matchups and switched back into the mode.

Basically, and there are different nuances at the different levels of high school, college, and the NFL........but a route that ends w/the digit 9 is a "go" route. A route that ends w/the digit 1 is an "out" route.

The number or numbers that precede that last digit can identify receivers and parts of the field. For example, when I was coaching, our Z-Right Trips 81 call was a quick pass to the outside WR on the strong side of the formation.

Oh.........and I mentioned a Double A gap.

The A gaps are between the center and the guards. Both sides. So, a Double A gap is where we run blitzers through both of those gaps.

The B gaps are between the guards and tackles.

The C gaps are between the tackles and the TEs.

The D gaps are outside of the TEs.

Similarly, on running plays, the holes are like this:

0 = right over center.

1 = between center and LG

2 = between center and RG

3 = between LG and LT

4 = between RG and RT

5 = between LT and TE

6 = between RT and TE

7 = outside of TE aligned to left side

8 = outside of TE aligned to right side

We also included a 9 number. It was a naked pitch to the TB to the left side w/no blocking. I made my mark on this play. So did Robert Smith when he was in HS. They trust your speed to beat the containment and then go one-on-one w/the corner. We ran this to the bench side a lot.

Oh, let me clarify. When they place the ball on the hashes, the "bench" side is the side that is closest to the sideline. The "field" side is the side that is the wider side of the field. This was bigger in the old days of the NFL and still is in high school and even in college. The NFL changed the width of the hashmarks to help w/the passing game.

Thank you Versatile Dog! Great information.

I'm hoping, with Peppers playing closer to the line of scrimmage, we'll have a better chance at defending some running backs and tight ends.

Thanks Vers for the follow-up posts. Also, I really like your idea of putting ward on JuJu and doubling up on AB.

Thanks.

its not Leveon Bell you should worry about. its his backup.James Conner
that basically his clone production wise in the preseason.
Conner runs really hard and his hands are real good.

James Washington will get targeted believe you me.
they didnt draft him.to sit and watch.
Washington will be sent deep more than once

what makes the Steelers offense more dangerous is that Ben is able to audible this year. Haleys ego wouldnt allow such.

offensively the Browns need to play ball control.
Tyrod cant throw 40 passes and out duel Ben.
I would run Chubb and Hyde and estsblish physicality.

Interesting post man, very enlightening, the details on routes were good. We don't see that often here.

On D, I send Garrett, because I think he gets three sacks and a forced fumble for six.

Boom time.

that'd be a very nice surprise

What makes you guys think that Peppers can cover anyone?

i don't, hence my use of the word "surprise"

LOL....

Gotta admit, that was a great reply.

But, you probably surmised who my comment was really to?

Pittsburgh Secondary BLOWS.

Ya' gotta run someone on deeper routes, but I go underneath to Gordon, Landry, Njoku and Duke ALL DAY LONG.

Get the high percentage passes into the hands of our playmakers. I see TONS of YAC available.

J/c ... i’m Sure he will be in later today as its only 9:08 am ... if we get to 5 or 6 PM today and there’s no sign of him .... he may be much easier to cover this week ...

Le'Veon Bell - RB - Steelers
NFL Network's Aditi Kinkhabwala was told by a Steelers player there have been "no signs" of
Le'Veon Bell at the Steelers' facility on Monday.

The Steelers first official practice heading into Week 1 is on Monday, but Bell is nowhere to be found despite a report last week he would show up on Labor Day, although Bell denied that report. It remains highly unlikely Bell gives up game checks by continuing his holdout into the regular season, but perhaps he takes it to the wire. Limited to just 13 touches after returning from a holdout last Week 1, Bell will not be an elite option against the Browns, but he should get back up to that level in quick order.

Source: Aditi Kinkhabwala on Twitter Sep 3 - 8:59 AM

If bell doesn’t play, our chances of winning this game goes up quite a bit.

But unfortunately our secondary is untested as it’s currently put together, so we don’t really know how well these guys will play come gameday.

And we’ve already seen first hand that Ben doesn’t need a run game to torch us.

Secondary is untested ... no doubt ... i like the chances of us having way better answers to the test with this group than last years ....

WERE VASTLY IMPROVED ... were not there yet ... but WERE WAY BETTER ..

And yes Ben don’t need much time to torch us ...

With an improved secondary that doesn’t have the corners 10 yards off th line and your FS 35 - 40 yards deep ... we will at least have a better shot at getting pressure on him ... i was telling a buddy of mine this morning on the phone ...

Last year teams didn’t need a hot read when we blitzed ... cause all the recievers were hot routes since our CB’s were not even in the screen most of the time ... *L* ...

I oo relize there a better football team ... i also realize were MUCH BETTER than years past ... were not with the stilers yet .. but i dont think the gaps near as big as a lot of u do ... and w/o bell ... there still better ... but it closes the gap just that much more ...

PLUS if they only tweaked the O .. Haley should be the DC this week ... *L* ...

To quote Al Davis: "The quarterback must go down. He must go down hard and he must go down often.".

1-When the Steelers try to punch the Browns in the face will they punch back? or God forbid will they for once set the tone and land the 1st punch. Cause the Steelers like to engage in a slug fest are we ready to go toe to toe?

2-Can the Browns put pressure on Ben while rushing just 4? If you blitz Ben will own you. Not that you don't blitz it has to be timed correctly and more importantly it had better work!

3- Can the Browns run on the Steelers? TT isn't going to beat anyone throwing the ball, so running effectively as the game wears on is a must.

4-Can the Browns keep the Steelers out of the end zone their the top offense in the league I believe so when they do move the ball can we make them settle for field goals.

See 1 though I think thats what I will watch for most, can we beat the will out of them?

Oh and I like our chances, we have the talent to shut them down and beat them to the punch. I see more old Browns in this crew then new Browns if we loose I hope we make them crawl out of CBS!

I won't embarrass myself by trying to offer anything as comprehensive as your game plan. Well done. Just some random thoughts.

I thought about your proposal to use the pass to establish the run and I have to agree. Too often in past seasons, we tried getting our predictable run game going early and got off schedule. The preseason suggests that the passing game is ahead of the running game right now. Getting them on their heels with the passing game should open up some running room.

Do we know if the Steelers play more man or zone? Does that change the routes we try to exploit?

I like your idea about lining up Landry in a lot of spots in the formations. I wonder if putting Landry in the backfield and putting Duke in the slot then using motion could give the offense something to exploit?

That also led to me wondering if any two-back alignments could help our running game. Either motioning Duke into the backfield or using a Pistol formation. Depending on the situation you could call a run for Taylor from that formation also.

Your plan calls for a good amount of vertical routes. If we do that, do you think Higgins can find some room to work the 10-20 yard routes? If I understand the route numbers those would be 3's and 5's.

On more thing, Shazier has to be replaced in the interior of that defense. How would you attack that with either the run or pass?

What is a 9-route and what are waggle routes? Question for anybody.....

I wish I could delete that, lol. Of course we'll send Garrett - that's what he's there for! To rush the QB....

From Wikipedia: a bootleg play is a play in which the quarterback runs with the ball in the direction of either sideline behind the line of scrimmage. ... The quarterback can be accompanied by an offensive lineman to block for him, or run without a blocker, which is known as a naked bootleg or waggle.

From me: The 9 route or go route is a deep verticle.

Ok thanks.

A waggle, run so that the whole defense runs the opposite direction from the QB, can be a thing of beauty for the offense.

If the defense doesn't bite on the fake, it can put the QB in intensive care.

The QB has to be really smart on these plays, and get rid of the ball, rather than taking a huge hit.

A few more things defensively:

If we get a whole lot of James Conner, our run fits should be more successful because he is more downhill. He sees the hole and hits it. Bell, on the other hand, with his maddening patience requires defenders to be much more disciplined and assignment aware. So if the defenders are right on their reads they should get more tackles closer to the line of scrimmage on Conner.

Secondly, look at the game tape below. I think we can use these packages to get pressure on Ben. In this video, they refer to this alignment with Avery as a standup rusher from a 4 man front, as Joker. That may have nothing to do with Williams' terminology.

Good stuff, Dawgs.

I say we just KICK THEIR ASS and talk about how we did it after the game. Lol.

Cleveland---31
Pittsburgh---17

I think I explained the routes, gaps, and holes in a post after my initial one. But, others have since covered things.

Nice post, guard. I sure as hell wasn't trying to embarrass anyone. Just thinking out loud.

I think you brought up some very good points in your post.



The Steelers are a zone team. They do play some man, but I think they are in the top 2 or 3 in regards to playing zone. Over 70% of the time. Think about Tomlin's roots. He is a Tampa-2 guy. You remember that D, right. Two deep safeties.

I just texted w/my son [he is big-time Steeler fan] about this and he told me that Carnell Lake is out as DB coach and the Steelers have two new safeties. There is some thought they might play more man this year. But, I think it is safe to assume they will be in zone coverage way more than man.

I am going to come back to this point later when I answer another question.



I hadn't thought about that. Good point. I love when guys really talk football instead of all the typical BS on here. I think you hit on something here in that we have guys we can really use creatively. We could even run a jet sweep w/Duke out of the formation you mentioned. Hell, just faking it would help keep the D off balance. Nice job!




Maybe, but I'm not really a fan of the two-back thing in the NFL.




I wasn't clear on the 9 routes. I think we should run them a lot, but more as a decoy. I want to spread the Steelers' D out because they play so much zone [this is the point I mentioned I would come back to.] They have to respect Gordon and Callaway's speed. Stretch them vertically and that will give our underneath guys, i.e. Landry, much more room to operate.

I do think we want to challenge them deep 3-4 times. Even if we don't complete them, I want to keep them honest. I would not rely on the deep passes though because while the Steeler D isn't very good, the one thing they can do is get after the qb. We have a new OL and a qb who holds the ball. We want to avoid sacks.

I want to spread them out and use Landry underneath. Run Higgens on some intermediate routes. Use Duke on waggles and in the flat. Throw a screen or two to Hyde. In about the late 2nd quarter or early 3rd quarter, I want to hit Njoku on a seam route where we split their safeties. I want this play to go for 6.




Their linebackers are pretty darn good at stopping the run. They acquired Bostic from Indy. My son is not too fond of his preseason play. I really don't know enough to comment regarding how well they defend the pass. TJ Watt is athletic. He can rush the passer and he has good range. He looks tall to me. I think he can get his hands on a lot of passes. I might stay away from him.