DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Nike: Just Do It Campaign

I can debate with logic and reason all day and you know damn well I can. But you expect us to fight fire with highly refined cooking oil... I'd rather use gasoline.

When the opposition doesn't believe facts, logic is useless.

Always resorting to insults and personal attacks. Shameful!

I am not on a White House Message Board. I didn't know one exists. Even it did, I wouldn't frequent it.

I would like to have intelligent debates on here. The constant name calling and insults eliminate such debate. It's all about the gang mentality and it's on both sides.

I actually think there are intelligent posters on here that won't comment because they know every conversation is ruined by all the insults and name calling.

We disagree on that one. Oh well. I said what I wanted to say.

I actually agree with that. And what I at least attempt to do is consider who I'm replying to with which to direct my approach in my replies. I'm not going to reply to posters like Vambo or 40 cent in any meaningful way. I've tried that one before. lol

There are others who I know will engage in trying to have a meaningful debate and as such, I do try to engage them in a civil manner. The fact is, there isn't a one size fits all way to respond. It all depends on who you're responding to.

I don't really object to what you're asking for. I just beieve you're having unrealistic expectations when you have one side with a few that will be nasty no matter what lengths you go to and expect people to try to be rational with those who act that way.

It never worked on me. I just grew tired of having this stupid flag/troops Strawman conversation.

...and the flag isn't stupid, the troops aren't stupid.... the conversation is- just pre-emptively heading off yet another subject hijack.

How do you feel about President Clinton?

Obama was an average leader, Trump is a horrible leader.

I even if I agreed with that, I could sure go for average compared to what we got right now.

I’ll just leave this here.
Plant evidence...Just Do It.

Baltimore Cops Carried Toy Guns to Plant on People They Shot, Trial Reveals
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xvzw...l-reveals-vgtrn

How do you feel about a deficit surplus wittelled away in less than four years by Bush? Hello Great Recession

this is why they kneel.

J/C
Wow those LIBERAL dems that run run that city of Baltimore should be on the hot seat too.....but nah they,ll blame conservitives somehow and be cleared as usual …..SMFH

Obama was an orator, not a leader.

Yea yea yea

I'll never forget when the banks and fund managers set everyone's retirement money on fire, and Obama, bravely, like a true leader, came out and said "Uh...let me be clear: we have to take care of these banks and fund managers. To those who lost everything because of their reckless incompetence, I say this: you're screwed. Sorry. But we're gonna need you to pay for us to save them."

Real and decisive leadership.

Where's this great leader been for the last two years, anyway? Windsurfing with Richard Branson?

Sounds less like a president problem and more of a capitalism problem.

And Obama's bold leadership tackled this capitalism problem, how, exactly?

by dragging us out of a recession.

which he achieved. but we've had this convo before and its a waste of time.

He didn't drag us out of a recession.

He threw money at banks. It was a band-aid on a gunshot wound, and the Piper is still looming to collect his due.

This conversation is only a waste of time because you eventually hit your head against a brick wall, and want to obfuscate rather than admit that Obama was basically a passive tool of capital who was likable and could orate.

this convo is a waste of time because we've had the same exact convo at least 4 times and nothing has come of it.

i have explained in detail both in public and in PM's about why i feel obama was a good leader. for me personally, he was a great leader.

you seem to shoot down any politician no matter what they do, to the point where i question if you know what leadership actually is.

yes, discussing obama's leadership with you is like banging my head on a brick wall, because when it comes to this topic, i might as well be talking to a trump supporter for all the good its gonna do.

Name the most decisive and effective leadership moment during his time in office.

Name me the one instance where, with every faction and interest group in his ear, he drowned out the noise and put his foot down, making the correct choice?

What's your #1?

Iranian nuclear agreement.

When he killed Bin Laden

1) I'll give you credit, that's the best possible answer

2) How's the lasting legacy of that going?

there's a bunch of things including what you just stated, but i was trying to stick to PDR's ridiculous criteria of obama doing something when everybody else was against it.

thats on trump and his zealots. that isn't on obama. obama made the absolute correct decision on that.

Numbers Show Most Baltimore Cops Are Minorities

https://www.amren.com/news/2016/08/numbers-show-most-baltimore-cops-are-minorities-2/

Here’s what the data shows about the racial makeup of Baltimore’s finest:

* Of the 2,745 active duty police officers in the department–1,445–more than half are African-American, Hispanic, Asian or Native American, according to data provided by the Baltimore police department to The Daily Caller News Foundation.

* Four of its top six commanders are either African-American or Hispanic.

* More than 60 percent of the incumbents at the highest command levels hail from minority communities.

* Among the 46 Baltimore police officers who hold the rank of captain and above, 25 are from ethnic or racial minority groups. That constitutes 54 percent of the command leadership.

In other words, Baltimore is a black-majority city led by a police force whose officers are mostly racial minorities as well.

It's almost like some institutions are inherently racist no matter who mans the position...

Except I thought we've already established minorities can't be racist.

Snarkiness aside, using your premise, doesn't that also make the thousands of minority offenders who victimize other minorities inherently racist? And when a significant amount of that victimization is gang related, wouldn't that amount to institutional racism as well?

No, because if I rob you for money, cars or shoes, I'm not robbing you because you're x color, I'm robbing you because I want Y, which is a material item. It's harder to ask if gangs can amount to institutional racism, mainly because there's so many types of gangs and every creed and race has one and not all of them operate the same. However, in big cities it's not unusual to see gangs establish an institution between themselves. Really, gangs, if I'm going full dog whistle and not thinking about gangs like Hells Angels and others, and instead am thinking completely about LA BLACK people gangs, then I would say that they are mainly a byproduct of institutional racism rather than its instigator. It's a tapeworm attached to the institution. Taking all of the institution's racist bullcrap and making food out of it.

I think you when these conversations start to head out to the humanities, you're too fixated on who or who isn't the victim. Victim is a bad connotation and it really does a poor job of explaining power dynamics. There are a lot of elements that make up a power dynamic, and being a victim is a small amount of that. For example, when your boss says you must work 12 hours on, you are not a victim of his, even if you are clearly subordinate to him.

j/c:

I think I speak for a lot of white people who are not racist. Most of us remain silent because we don't like being attacked for our opinions and being put into categories we don't belong in.

Some points:

--We have an open mind. We do not unfairly discriminate against minorities.

--We recognize that minorities have been discriminated in the past.

--We understand there are still many whites who discriminate against minorities.

--We dislike whites who discriminate against minorities.

--We try to judge individuals as individuals.

--We are miffed when certain minorities ignore or excuse poor behavior by other minorities.

--We are dismayed when minorities resort to racial profiling and/or racial stereotyping that paints all whites in a negative light.

--We want to support fairness and equality, but we have a hard time w/minorities who consistently are unfair and resort to discrimination.

Well said.

For my purposes I define "victim" as someone who has been unjustly deprived of life, liberty, property, and peace (peace being a term that encompasses more minor violations such as harassment, loud music in the middle of the night, etc). So I do agree that just because your boss tells you something you don't like, it doesn't make you a victim.


Gangs regardless of their racial make up, use similar if not the same methods to.. make their living so to speak. Drugs, violence, etc... that goes for Hells Angels, MS-13, Bloods/Cryps.. what have you. IMO the fact that they are organized with defined purposes nearly by definition qualifies them as institutions.

But what about the racial part? For this discussion I think we can use black gangs as an example. I don't think we have to dog whistle anything and honestly, we're both probably more familiar with the environmental factors that effect/they effect more so then the other gangs. I think your white motorcycle gangs were born of a post WW2 "rebel" spirit, and in my estimation gangs like MS-13 were born outside the U.S. and are seeking to expand their trade. I don't think any of that makes any one group "less bad" than another and I'm certainly willing to entertain any commentary on them as well.

When you said "the institution's racist bullcrap", what is the institution?

-Is it law enforcement (the legal system as a whole)?

-Gov't social programs (many correlate the XXXX of entitlement programs since the 60's with the break down of traditional family structures across all groups. I don't know it's necessary if we agree there is a correlation, but 'll just hold on to the high % of out of wedlock relationships within the black community for an upcoming point)

- (you fill in the blank!)

I have a few thoughts on each of those points but I want to kick it over to you to set the direction.

VAPID BLONDE IDIOT AND/OR TUCKER CARLSON: But what about Chicago? What about black-on-black crime?

No wonder you dig Jordan Peterson. You can dress up reactionary idiocy in fancy language...don't change the intent, chief.

Man, I wish I had Peterson's ability and intellect. I think CHS would find it a better person to discuss things with.

I'm not playing whataboutism at all. I'm simply asking what the difference between two institutions that are viewed as oppressive to a group of people that makes one racially motivated and the other not.

It's called an intellectual exercise. CHS and I had a great convo about white privilege awhile back. Sit back, you may learn something

He is truly one of the dumber people I've ever come across.

He's a complete idiot, in almost every degree.

It's sad to hear anyone say they wish they had that charlatan's intellect, let alone someone I'm fond of.

For those who don't know, Jordan Peterson is an overly-sensitive whiny bigot who masquerades as an intellectual.

He preys on dumb people with low self-esteem for his grift.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

Also, he cries constantly, and sounds like Kermit the Frog:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvBm0ZUfe7I

Just for clarification, MS 13 was founded in Los Angeles, California.