DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 18 Saints 21 Saints Breakdown!

So on to week 2. honestly, i dont see us winning this game for a plethora of reasons. lets break it down:

Offense:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/no/new-orleans-saints

So obviously, the head of the snake is Drew Brees, who IMO, is STILL a top 3 QB in this league at 39 years old.

last week, this offense put up 5 TD's, with Brees throwing a ridiculous 82% for 439 yards and 3 TD's, and only got sacked once. So their offensive line does a good job of protecting Brees, and while the numbers might not reflect it, they do a good job in run blocking.

and who are they blocking for? Alvin Kamara, who had 2 TD's on the ground, and adding a whooping 112 receiving for 1 TD. this scares me, because we couldnt stop Connor last week, and Kamara is a WAY better player than he is. this is gonna be a huge test for our LB'ers, as i'm concerned that we do not have the speed to match.

then, we have to deal with Michael Thomas (go buckeyes!), who had 16 catches for 180 yards and a TD!! Ginn jr had 5 catches for 68 yards and a TD, and a guy who use to play for us, benjamin watson, is still going strong who caught all 4 of his targets for 44 yards.

they have weapons everywhere. I'm highly concerned about this matchup because we let a sloppy big ben still torch us for 330 in the rain, and a backup RB torch us for 100+ on the ground. as far as overall talent, this is a much more overall talented team than the steelers on offense. Ward and mitchell will have their hands full all day, as well as our LB'ers. with ogbah hurt, does our already torched front 7 have an even tougher time stopping the run?

will the saints even care about running the ball and just torch us threw the air? as of right now, i have little confidence we can stop their attack.

Defense:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/no/formation/4-3-defense

this is where we actually have a chance. but we have to execute. last week, the saints defense got absolutely ran out of the stadium. they had no turnovers. one forced fumble they didn't get, only 3 pass break ups, and only 3-4 tackles for a loss.

and they got no sacks. We all know who and what Cameron Jordan is capable of, so Hubbard will have his hands full. But harrison will have an easier time going against Okafor than he did going against Heyward last week. the saints defense did ok against the run, but still allowed 112 yards on the ground against the bucs, including giving up a TD on the ground.

Their secondary looks weak, at least in week 1. Lattimore is an excellent corner, but the rest of their secondary can and has been torched, including last season. being in doors, this should be a game where Gordon and Landry can absolutely excel in.

the issue is whether or not Tyrod can quickly pull the trigger. i believe we can run on the saints defense, but that requires committing to the run.

we have to eat up clock, because the more series Brees gets, the worse our chances of winning are, and its already a low chance. The saints defense got embarrassed last week, so better believe they are gonna come up on sunday looking to make a statement.

so on offense:

- can we commit to the run game?

- can we eat up clock?

- can tyrod hit what will be open receivers?

- can Njoku catch? this should be prime opportunity for him to shine this game.

- will we adequately provide enough pass protection?

on defense:

- can we limit kamara on the ground?

- can we limit his damage in the passing attack?

- can we pressure drew brees enough to make him uncomfortable?

- will Ward struggle against Thomas and Ginn jr?

- can our LB'ers close faster on TE's and their RB's?

*X factor*

do we allow a punt or kickoff return for a TD? our ST looked really bad last week.

overall, there's hope. but this game will end up most likely in two ways:

1. a shootout going to the last 2 possessions, or

2. the saints blowing the doors off us.

Kamara is lighting and SO talented. He's a nightmare for us IMO. Maybe the toughest guy in the league for us to stop given our lack of speed at LB

Nice job of analyzing the match-up. I'll add some thoughts in a bit.

I had us winning last week.

our defense showed it can handle an offense in the worst weather conditions. but they still got lit up and down the field. there's no way i'm going to expect another 6 turnover effort from our defense against the saints in their house.

i agree with why brees doesn't get sacked all that much, which is only more a concern. can we get pressure quick enough, or is our defense good for coverage sacks?

our secondary had weather to its advantage last week and still got over 300 put on them by a QB who loves holding on to the ball as long as possible. a quick release QB in a dome with essentially track stars for receivers?

we really need our front 7 to get pressure, or we're gonna get roasted.

yea, im struggling to see how we effectively stop Kamara without giving up the big play to anyone else.

Our OL needs to come out and really dominate in run blocking. IF we can pound the ball successfully, and score TDs on long drives, we'll have a puncher's chance. I'd love to get the ball out to Gordon and Landry, but not at the expense of incompletions stopping the clock. A lot of screens, slants, quick outs...continuation of the run game. Maybe just a rare deep throw to Njoku up the seam or Gordon down the sideline.

On D, there is no stopping Kamara...not with our LBs that get caught up in traffic, and not with Williams' fascination with blitzing constantly. All we can do is hope our secondary gets this guy on the ground before he gets any huge (25+ yd) gains. Brees, as good as he is, does throw a fair number of picks. We need to get a few.

I don't know as much about the game as many of you, but IMO, we'd be smart to go heavy on that pre-snap look where Williams has 7 guys up near the line, and have several calls for coverage off of that. We need to leave 4, 3, (or even an occasional 2?) on the line and drop the rest just as frequently as we blitz. Make Brees take an extra half or full second to diagnose the play post-snap, and hope that's enough to get the rushers home.

yea, im struggling to see how we effectively stop Kamara
without giving up the big play to anyone else. [/quote]

Easy, just add a little Pepper... Jabril Peppers that is! Jabril will have him on lockdown the entire game!!!!

OK that hurt to even type that! New Orleans has sooo many weapons!

N.O. was down big last week and came roaring back and almost won the game. This is going to be a big test for our defense. Offense is going to have to play a lot better then last week.

We are going to have to get pressure on Brees. Can't give him time to sit in the pocket and pick us apart. Who knows, Maybe our D will win this for us like they almost did last week.

Good post. I too believe their secondary looks weak going by week one, therefore it amounts to Taylor stepping up and even some of the WRs taking advantage and stepping up. Especially Njoku.

Our defense will be challenged.

The best part of their team isnt the QB, RB, WR but their OLINE. They have 5 studs who keep pressure away from Brees, gives the running backs big holes and allows them to use little to no extra blockers.

That being said, I do think with out pass rush, there is a decent chance that we could break their line a little.

If Ward plays as well as he did week 1, then their passing attack isnt as good. Thomas is a scary dude, but if Ward can stick with him and win a good amount of battles, we may be able to frustrate them.

On offense, we need the running game. The more we keep the ball, the less their offense can pull away. Ball control and make this game ugly. Tyrod MUST make the Saints pay for going single press man on the outside.

I think the Saints defense is better than they showed week one. And I think Payton is a damn good coach. They will be ready and come out swinging, because 0-2 teams do not make the playoffs. Their dome is also a noise nightmare. The Browns MUST withstand what will likely be an emotional onslaught early and fight back. If they can hang around, then they will have a chance. Make the Saints question if they are really better.

I'll try not to be as technical w/my descriptions as last week. I think I killed the thread. LOL

I don't have a very good feeling about how we match-up w/the Saints, especially since they got bombarded by Fitz and TB by all people and it was in their home. Ouch!

Defensively:

--I think we went w/lighter DTs to pressure the qb more up the middle when our edge guys get outside pressure. I think we can get more of a pass rush, but probably will suffer a bit against the run w/the changing of the DTs. With that said, I don't think Kamara is going to kill us on the ground. I do think he will gash us in the passing game. He's a devastating matchup for LBers and SS's. Considering we don't have a SS who can cover, that leaves our LBers in some tough match-ups.

--Michael Thomas is very productive at WR. We passed on him twice for C. Coleman and Ogbah. He's very tall. He has a great wingspan. He has a tremendous catching radius. He has good hands. He runs good routes. I think I would keep Ward on the defensive left and Mitchell on the right. I would drop our SS or Mike to take away the intermediate routes over the middle. I also think BBC will see some time covering Thomas. He's longer and has pretty good speed.


--Ted Ginn can still fly and scores TDs. Long ones. I think Ward can cover him deep one-on-one, but that he might get behind Mitchell.

--What does all of the above tell us? Randall is going to have a great game. He is going to have provide over-the-top support while also coming up and hitting Thomas over the middle. He is also going to have to make sure tackles on Kamara in the open field. He's got his work cut out for him this week.

--I think we are again going to generate outside pressure w/Myles and Avery. I think we need to make Brees step-up in the pocket. He's short and doesn't like to do that. If we can get interior pressure w/either our DTs or running more Double A Gap blitzes, we can get Brees out of rhythm. That would be huge and give us a real chance to win. I'm just not sure if we can do that.

Offensively:

--I think we can get deep on them, but we need for Taylor to be able to pull the trigger.

--Tyrod should be able to run on the Saints. Hell, Fitz got outside on them and he can't move like Taylor.

--Our OL must play better. While Taylor held the ball too long on several occasions, there were too many times that Pittsburgh was in the backfield in a heartbeat.

--Can we punch them in the mouth and beat them up w/the running game? I really don't know the answer to that. I don't believe we can, but who knows.

--I think Gordon can have some success against the Saints. Hope he has his head in the game and Taylor can get him the ball.

--I also would use Higgens and/or Callaway on some longer pass plays. I would love to stretch them vertically and then have Taylor use his legs to run for "chunks" and for Hyde to get to the outside on quick sweeps.

Conclusion:

I think the Saints are a bad match-up for us. I really don't see us winning this game. That disappoints me because I think we might have something building here and we need to have some success on the scoreboard.

there's little chance in this one, and I've thought that since I saw the schedule come out. It's just a brutal start to the year for us.

That's why I really wanted to pull out the win last week

Kamara/Thomas/Brees/Ginn ... and they do have a stout run D, so Tyrod is under tons of pressure again

If you want to get the road game win loss record monkey off your back,

I think the Saints are a good place to visit.

Only way to win this game is to control time of possession. If the Browns can keep the Saints offense off the field, they will have a better chance of succeeding.

Run the rock using our 3 amigos (Hyde, Johnson, Chubb) and run more drags and slants. Let those guys use their speed to beat the 1 on 1s.

my question is how good is Tampa's defense? Everybody is talking about how the Saints scored so much, how bad is Tampa's defense. I really have no clue, but it would help in the evaluation of this game.

Also, is Tampa's offense that good to put up the score they did against NO? Or is NO's defense really that bad?

Most are saying we don't have a chance, but IMO, I think we do. Until the above questions are answered, I won't throw the towel in like most are.

Bro, I don't mean this to be offensive, but I don't like comments like that.

I never throw the freaking towel in when I am playing, fighting, competing, etc. NEVER!!!!

But, I'm not playing in the damn game. I am looking at it from the outside. I don't like being categorized as some wimp because I think the Saints have more talent than the Browns.

If I were playing, that would only make me try harder! But, I'm not, so I just call it the way I see it.

Boy you took that awfully personal. I'm just saying a ton of points were scored, something wasn't right somewhere. It's too early in the season for me to be crowning any team as unbeatable. They have more talent, but got beat by a team that was inferior to them. That's my problem.

I just want to know, is Tampa's offense really that good, or is NO's defense really that bad? Nothing personal there.

By the way, I wasn't even replying to you.

It was one game and I don't think either is true.

This will be an interesting game, and to be honest, I'm not high on our chances of success. I also don't want to lose sight of our chances.

The Buccs put the Saints to the sword last week, and I think it's fair to say the Browns have a roster that is every bit as talented as Tampa. So it's possible. This isn't a hopeless roster. We have the talent to compete.

Our defence, in my opinion, is much better than the Buccs. So we should be able to give the Saints some trouble if we're able to make an impact on Brees, Kamara and Thomas; That's their weakness, their offense largely functions through three players. I'm a lot more confident than I was last week after seeing how well our secondary plays. Ward looks like a superstar in the making, and Mitchell was very good. Randall and Peppers, too, played really well.

We have the tools to make an impact off the ball. Our corners did a really nice job on AB and JuJu, so they shouldn't be fearing Thomas and Ginn. Garrett, Avery and Ogunjobi were firing, so hopefully we can get some pressure on Brees and stall him out at times. Kamara is the trickly one - not huge on our linebackers covering, but perhaps Williams can dedicate a little extra attention there.

The offense is still an unknown. The conditions just were not there for a passing offense last week, so who knows. Meanwhile, the Saints got annihilated in spite of shaping up to be one of the best defences in the league. In both cases, it's hard to know what to expect. Maybe our offense isn't any good, maybe the Saints really have regressed.

What we do know is the 2017 Saints were pretty average against the run but excellent against the pass. They were able to suffocate teams into playing against the pass by way of Brees and the offense putting up points. So it's key the Browns can get off to a good start. Their strength is secondary and edge - linebackers and interior DL fall more in the solid category. Hopefully some hard-nosed football can make an impact.

Personally, I see this week as a standard football cliché. Cannot fall behind, must establish the run early and need to be selective in taking chances over 10 yards. Fitzmagic beat them deep, and we've got the skill to do it, but Taylor can't be underthrowing his passes again.

I'd hope our defence is better than to allow Brees to have a monster game, but it remains to be seen because that's seemingly all Brees ever does.

Overall, the Saints are a breathtakingly good team: Their issues on D last week were more than likely some rust, and they're going to be hungry to prove that. They aren't the best in the NFL, but they're a top 10 unit.

Their offense, meanwhile, is led by a quarterback who this year will eclipse Manning and Farve for the most passing yards of all time - he's only 1,000 yards away from surpassing both.

Tough game. We'll see what happens. If anything, the Saints are a prime candidate for the typical "Lose one game you should win, win one game you shouldn't" routine. I don't expect them to drop two of their most winnable games of the season in consecutive weeks, however.

I won't quit on our guys, tho. I think the offense is taking unfair heat and could certainly be much better. I also think the defence is fantastic. It only takes a few plays to turn a game; I won't say we can't find those plays.

We need to look at the reasons TB was having so much success in the areas they were and see if we have the personnel to exploit the same things.

TB abused Lattimore all day, yet Lattimore is supposed to be one of the better corners in the league.... so, HOW did they do it?

Is Lattimore one of those CB's that is a rockstar in zone but struggles in man with a WR that runs good routes? I don't know, but there is SOMETHING there.

Neither team ran for squat, but both lit each other up through the air and during that the NO defense was completely ineffective at getting pressure in any meaningful way. TB was able to get pressure and managed one sack..... so, are the OLines on both that good, or were all of the passes really quick hitters and screens?




I think we have a chance... the answer lies in HOW we play them.

Drew Brees knows that MG is on the hunt. He gets the ball out quick, but he'll be getting it out faster than usual on Sunday.

Pressure on Brees?

He's at his best in a clean pocket and when he can step up . I bring as much pressure inside as we can. Including GARRETT and Avery.

Our Deep stuff?

With Taylor at QB, I wouldn't live on deeper routes. I'd be turning Gordon and Callaway loose on those quick slants and Njoku in the deep middle A LOT.

This gonna be a fun one to watch.

Damn, wish New Orleans won last week.

I looked 3 weeks ago, the BROWN'S have a super record against New Orleans since 99. And New Orleans isn't good against the AFC North. Trends.

I hope Lattimore shadows Gordon all day.

Advantage Browns.

We know what we need to do on D.

We do need to run the ball and kill clock, but we also have to get Gordon targeted more often and I believe Calloway can have a big game. We have to get him involved as well.

Pressuring Brees is way easier said than done. He gets the ball out very quickly and accurately (much like we HOPE Baker will do eventually).

That's the key. He'll be releasing the ball quick, our hope is that the secondary is in position to make him pay for those quick decisions but drew is too intelligent and accurate.

I want to bump this thread because I think it is way, way better than the prediction thread. There is analysis here.

the Saints you cant stop.on offense but you can slow down
if you can put together a ball.control game plan.
the Browns need to on offense have a short to intermdiate passing game.
3 step drop and throws. Hubbard and Harrison are the worst starting OT tandem in the league other than the Colts or Bills tackles.
quick throws into the hands of Landry Gordon and Calloway.
use Johnson on screens and arrow routes.
but the Browns cant get into 3rd and lg situations.
Taylor is not a qb that will complete passes over 13 16 yds.
he will.check down to Johnson on a 3rd and 11 with a 7 yd gain.

defensively you cant blitz Brees with LBers. he will find those vacated areas and just eat you up...get a push with the front 4 and hope your back 7 can stay with Ginn and Thomas and Kamara.
the Browns need to win the field position game.
special teams needs to.do something special.
the Browns dline needs to get their hands up and knock some balls down.disrupt that lethal passing game.

Bard and a couple others have mentioned it this week: we didn't work the short middle in the pass game vs. Pitt.

I'm curious as to why?

can TT not throw people open. I remember one to landry, I believe, got knocked down, and another blocked at LOS. We didn't take what they gave us on D, we just abandoned stuff and didn't seem to try it. Were we forcing balls to Njoku, Gordon?

I really think that banging into the Saints receivers at the LOS, if that buys us another second or so in the rush, can help us. I just don't think we get Brees with ball in hand much. He is a blitz killer when secondary comes.

I remember the one pass that Njoku dropped that was a bit too far out in front of him.

It might be harder for Taylor to make the quick pot passes because he is so short.

So after seeing some Kamara (spelling) highlights... this kid is haunting. We cannot assign a LB'er (Kirko prob our BEST cover LB with Shobert not too far behind) and this kid would torch them guys.

I hope Williams has a fantastic game plan against Kamara, I can clearly see why all the hype surrounds him. He's dangerous. I sense Peppers being assigned to him often with LB help.

Got news for you all - no LB in the league never can cover Kamara.

If we spy Kamara with Peppers I have a feeling we'll see Peppers looking like a fool.

No one can cover him sans the great cover corners ...

There’s not a LBer or SAFETY in this league that can cover him ...

Hes as uncoverable as they come unless u wanna out your shutdown corner on him ..

which brings up a point: do we just put Ward on him?

Put Mitchell on Thomas and roll a safety his way

Calhoun on Kamara. Roll safety coverage to whatever side Thomas lines up on. Mitchell or Ward to man up on Ginn.

maybe