DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 18 Saints 21 Post Game Thoughts

I'd tell him: We're making this move now ... get right, see you next year at TC to win the job back

SNAP COUNTS: (OUT OF 66)
LB Joe Schobert 66 Jamie Collins 66 James Burgess 40 Genard Avery 21 DL Myles Garrett 65 Larry Ogunjobi 58 Coley 50 C. Smith 38 C. Davis 10 Thomas 10 Zettel 9 Safeties Randall 59 Kindred 41 Peppers 36 Boddy-Calhoun 5 CB Ward 64 Mitchell 53 Carrie 35

SNAP COUNTS: (OUT OF 62)
RB Carlos Hyde 36 Duke Johnson 23 Nick Chubb 3 WR Jarvis Landry 59 Antonio Callaway 50 Rashard Higgins 46 TE David Njoku 46 Darren Fells 25 Orson Charles 18

so, looking at those numbers ... BBC had a rough outing in week 1 and was basically benched yesterday

Also, Chubb with 3 snaps ... which means we had picks 1 and 33 ... and they played THREE total snaps in week 2. Awful.

I'm ready to see more of Chubb than Hyde.

I don't want to hear anymore about you trying to Hyde your Chubb

Hey...I haven't been around in a LOOOOONG Time. Sorry about that...we can catch up later. But really felt the need to talk.

Just some thoughts over the first 2 games.

Hue - I honestly do not have any massive complaints outside of the shakeups he does with lineups...this time with the OLine before game one. To succeed in the NFL you need consistency, chemistry, and trust. The latter 2 are almost impossible to get without the first. His constant meddling with lineups hurts us. But outside of that...he said it right. his teams DO NOT QUIT! The past 2 seasons were atrocious to be kind. But they didn't quit. If you were to tell me that we would be 6 points down with 2:40 left in the game. I would say that it is done. We would go 4 and out and the other team would sit on the ball. But not only did we score, but we got the ball back with 21 seconds left. In any time since our return were you ever confident that we could get in field goal position with 21 seconds left? But we did it. For all of his faults...Hue shines in one of the most important. Do you know any coach who can lose as much as he has in the past couple seasons and not lose their locker room? There is something to be said for that.

Gonzalas - He has to go. It's not about whether he can kick in the NFL. It is not about whether he can bounce back. I am sure he can. But it probably will not happen here. His confidence is shot. And he will need time to regain it. Time we cannot afford. This isn't baseball where you have 162 opportunities to work it out. Nor is it basketball with 82. The kid can kick. He has to make it through this as all young kickers do. It just cannot happen here.

Anyone notice that we didn't hear Desmond Harrison's name at all vs the Saints? I haven't re-watched anything, but on the surface, it is a Good thing. I am sure he wasn't perfect...but I like how the kid is stepping up. It is WAYYYY too early to say we found a replacement for Joe Thomas...but at least it is trending in that direction

Josh Gordon - What a shame and disappointment...hope he can get straight...enough said.

Offense - I thought the offense took a good step yesterday. Let me explain. I say this while keeping in mind that they are very young in a brand new offense. If we were stocked with older vets...this would not be as much of an issue...But we aren't...As long as we keep stepping forward...I am ok with it. The OLine has had less than 2 weeks together. The QB is very conservative (more on that later). The receiving corps is young with no apparent superstar outside of Landry. Although...there is potential. I see Landry getting frustrated and it worries me. If he can hold it together...the offense can grow. He should be able to do that. I think our OLine should be better in the run game. There is no reason that we shouldn't be able to bulldoze. Tyrod needs to take some of the blame of this as he is not forcing defenses to pull back some of their personnel from the line of scrimmage. I also have to wonder how predictable our snap count is. In both games opposing D's were timing up the count perfectly giving the OLine no chance. TJ Watt was a perfect example... He was sprinting at the line and was timing it up perfectly...That has to change. But even with all of these issues, they are good enough to give us a chance to win. No one should expect these guys to be the 2000 Rams. That is completely unrealistic.

Defense - What a difference a year makes. Last years D was one of the better D's we have had since the return even with the secondary issues. This years D is a big step up...I honestly can't wait to see next year...LOL...I love Myles Garrett. Didn't hear his name yesterday. But when was the last time we had a player that teams would have to change their entire game plan for? I don't recall a single run in his direction. Everything went right. And the extra attention placed on him completely opened up Ogunjobi (love this kid and loved him from the start) I even like our Dbacks. Although I am having a difficult time trying to figure out when the refs are going to let them play and when they aren't. That illegal contact that took away Ogunjobi's 3rd sack was a bit ticky-tacky in my opinion.

Tyrod - First...I am very glad we have him. I tried not to judge him too harshly after game one. Historically he has never performed well vs the Steelers. I feel he holds the ball too long. I think he is a perfect tutor for Baker. I think he needs to do more to keep teams from crowding the line of scrimmage. While I do like his conservatism (now), I do feel he needs a few more gambles to work the defense back a little. If only to help the Running Game. I think some of this will come as he gains trust in his receivers. But I also think he will always be a ball control QB. Amazing pass to Callaway though...I think that took us all off guard. In short he may not meet all of our desires. But he is what we need right now. Stop the call for Baker. in time I think Baker could do exactly what Brees' said he can do...But I also see that coming next year or even the year after. He will take more chances than Taylor would. But I don't think his processing speed is ready now.

So for me at this point...aside from acquiring a new kicker (it has to happen)...I am a stay the course for now kind of person...it is not the flashy or easiest course...But I think it is the course we need to take...

Disappointed... Very.

I thought that overall, we did an excellent job of holding Brees and the very good Offense of the saints down.

The offense did enough to win, but again, special teams were a let down. Specifically Gonzalez.

I seem to remember that there was another kicker we had some time back. Missed a few in a row and everyone wanted him gone.

Remember him,,, Phil Dawson. So I'm a little torn. On one hand, I'd like to kick him to the curb, but on the other hand, what if he's the next Phil Dawson (not saying that, just asking)

We need a deep threat at WR..(no more gordon but what about Bryant) we really don't have one that's 100% reliable. Callaway did a REALLY nice job, but I'm not sure yet that he's "that guy" Gotta admit, the pass was perfect and Callaways finger tip catch was nothing short of picture perfect.

I'm impressed with Tyrod Taylor... I know that some of you think it's Mayfield time and I have to admit for a moment yesterday, I was thinking about it.

It's hard to isolate on one O lineman while trying to watch the game (at least for me it is) But Harrison seems to be getting better.. might he be the real deal?

Overall, I like this team.. we need to get kicking fixed. That's two games we could have won but for missed extra points and field goals..

I woke up this morning with a smile on my face.

We might be bad, but we ain’t players quiting and retiring at halftime bad.

I will say, I can't recall many offsides, false starts and other idiotic flags.

That's a plus.

Meh. Who cares?

I can only recall 1 'critical' offsides call on our D that really ticked me off.

Otherwise, yeah. We made a good improvement cleaning up those penalties.


We should've won and we didn't, which is really disappointing. But after cooling off and thinking about it, there were a lot of positives to the game... lots of improvements. My outlook on the season was that I want them to continually improve and be at least competitive in games. So far I think they're doing that against 2 of the better teams in the league.

Did we have any holding or OL penalties?

Ahhhh yes... I remember that now. Still, not upset in the grand scheme of things. Much more disciplined.

What a jackass ... ...

Holy Crap ... u learned a lot in your time away ... *L* ...

Just kidding dawg ...

Great post man ...

I’d love to get into with u over sumptin but u left no doors open for me ... *L* ..

I’m not sure i disagree with a word u said ...

Hope u have time to post once in awhile bro ... it sure is good to see u ...

Eve was drunk. Haven't you figured out how this works yet?

j/c

Okay, now that everyone has gotten over the emotional rants of game day. lmao

People seem to have no sense of objectivity that should have come from watching this game. To say I was disappointed is an understatement. Yet at the same time I have a firm grasp of the situation.

In 2017 the Saints averaged 30.2 points per game at home. Even on the TD pass to Thomas, Ward was in great position and had his arms in there. Thomas just muscled it out. So our D did just fine against an explosive O. Holding Drew Brees to 21 points in his "home dome" isn't something fans should be complaining about.

Gordon is gone. He earned it. Quit whining because Dorsey isn't going to continue coddling a selfish player for years to come. Even the players agreed he needed to go. I'm sure couch potatoes know more than the FO, coaching staff and players do. lmao

Taylor played a pretty good game. If people expect Taylor to be lighting it up down field, they know nothing about his game and who he is. He is obviously getting more comfortable with his WR's and threw the ball better with some longer passes mixed in. He put us in the position to win the game two weeks in a row.

People want to blame Hue, the D, Taylor and anything else they can come up with. It's this kind of stupidity that makes this board sometimes hard to read. This loss fell directly on the shoulders of the kicker.

We have been within a single play of winning both of our games against perennial playoff teams. That's with a new OC, a heavy roster turnover and a lot of new moving parts. As with any fan, I want a win every week. But unlike so many fans it seems, I have realistic expectations and can see the improvement in this team. To me it was obvious in week one against the Steelers and even more so now from week 1 to week 2.

We're getting to where we want to go and all I hear for the most part is whining and moaning.

On the other hand we have seen a Bad Stealers team and a Bad Saints team, if they were bad because of us, or if we looked good because of them looking bad, its the big question after this 2 games.

Guess we will see sooner or later...

So far we have lost and tied 2 winnable games...

The ease I see teams marching on the field, reminds me a lot of the last seasons.

We have a D that produces more turnovers and a QB that can make plays when we need him, but the unbalances are there for all to see.

Can we win games in highlights?

My how the worm has turned on the board ... were usually telling folks were not near as good as they think ...

This is WIERD!!!

I like this better though ...

Dont forget about Corbett

C'mon man ... They are still rookies.

IMO, some of you guys make up unmerited prerequisites for rookie Draft picks. They will get their opportunity soon enough ...

The Saints looked pretty good in week 1 and the Steelers looked pretty good in week 2. At least both of the O's did.

Maybe it's time to admit we have a pretty good D and an O that can keep us in games?

I think they're better than some think and not as good as some feel. lol

i expect losses like this.
you dont have one win into the start of year 3 without losing games you should win. this is just more of the same from the Browns. Losers find a way to lose.

This is not said as any sort of moral victory, but I see it as part of the progression of things.

We are in every game. Legitimately. These teams are not sleeping on us and we are not getting lucky to be in these; we are making it happen. Right now, in both of those games, we've been right there - we arguably SHOULD BE 2-0(-0) if not for our "idiot kicker". Yeah, instead we are 0-1-1, but if we keep the progression going, it is quite clear that the wins are going to start coming.

Part of the growing pains.... which are fine as long as we keep growing.

Proof again, Pit, that wisdom is priceless. I felt exactly the same way, yet again, all in a single game.

Just win baby! Once every three years or so whether you need it or not.

I think some don't realize or take into account, that we have had such LITTLE talent on the field, that we finally had a guy that was top level in the league, and poof, hes gone.

I WAS a huge josh supporter BTW, but I am completely 100% behind the decision to get rid of him. They told him 0 tolerance policy going forward, then he showed up late. Goodbye, we got a game on Sunday.

ehhhhhhhh, idk about that. The INT was pretty bad. I get he doesn't go downfield, but what he needs to get is that until he starts taking that chance, he will never be considered more than a placeholder at QB for ANY team. He made a huge play yesterday with Calloway, then some big throws to put us in position to make a FG with only 21 sec on the clock.....Those two drives were phenomenal, yes. But until then he was sub par.

I have been calling for Hues head for a while now. He coached the best game of his career yesterday IMO. Not one time did I question him, and they did a fantastic job ON THE ROAD, IN A DOME, being PREPARED for loud noise, I think that is getting lost. Because my main beef with hue is the team being prepared. Yesterday they were.

Honestly, at this point, with the losing we have endured and not just the amount of losing - BUT THE WAY WE LOSE, I cant blame fans for this. Its time, bud. We need W's. There are no more excuses, no more "waiting for this" or "waiting for that". No more "lack of talent" excuses either. We proved with the two games we just played, we CAN WIN.

I fully expect a win on Thursday. If we do not win, I will be back calling for Hue's head as there a no more excuses for losing.

While this isn't a Josh Gordon thread, while we're on the topic... lol....

What some fans seem to forget is that if or when Josh got suspended, you can't cut or trade him at that juncture. We would be in limbo once again. So IF you are seeing signs that lead you to believe he may be traveling down that slippery slope once again, the time to act is now.



Yet, isn't that exactly what he is here? A place holder until Baker is ready? Not saying I'm right here, but we have a new OC. Taylor is in his first year here surrounded by a new system and a new roster. He did go deep more than last week. IMO it seems logical to conclude that he did better this week than last week and he went deep more this week than last week. But we got him on a one year deal and if you saw much of him before he got here we're getting exactly what we paid for.



And that was my point. I've seen it concerning yesterday's game. I think we agree here.



And you know what? I do understand that. But often times I think it's based more on emotion than on a factual basis. Do I think Hue could have pulled out a few more wins in his first two years? Yes I do.

But this team was tore down to the bare walls and we didn't have a roster that anyone could have done much with.

But what I do agree with is this year is the time. We have a better roster. Hue has an OC to help distribute the work load with. I don't expect a miracle but I do expect us to win against teams we should beat and compete well with the better teams. Just like we've done so far.

When I coached youth sports, I talked to my parents before every season.. told them that there is this notion out there that "sportsmanship" means you don't care if you win or lose..

I told them that is 100% inaccurate... that's apathy. Sportsmanship is when you care TREMENDOUSLY whether you win or lose.. but are gracious in either outcome.

I've been frustrated as hell the last two weeks, that's how I know I care... haven't punched anybody yet, that's how I know I'm showing sportsmanship.

I'm also convinced that this team just needs to break through, just one time.. and enjoy that feeling of walking off the field as a winning team.. and that could potentially open the flood gates...

I wonder how good a “sport” u would have been if Zane stopped by say about 4:15 yesterday afternoon ...

Actually, I would have felt horrible for him and would have just offered him words of encouragement. Berating him at that point does absolutely no good. I'm 100% certain that nobody on the Cleveland Browns felt more sick than him about the misses...

I might rant on here and make the random Facebook post expressing my frustration.. but nothing he was tagged in and I would have said nothing to him personally.

Yep, being a good human being in everyday life trumps ranting on a message board.

We saw it differently. Your comment about Ward defending Thomas on the TD ... I understand you stating he had good position but he'll not be that shutdown back unless he learns to sense the receiver better and look back for the ball. I watched Ohio State on Sat and it seems no one there coaches that part of defending. I disagree that his position would have helped him defend the ball. Having his arm in there was irrelevant as the receiver pulled it in with both hands. The only chance Ward had to actually make a play is if there was some juggling on the reception because he was below/behind the receiver and not aware of the ball until it was caught.

I hope Ward can learn to find the ball, he will then be shutdown.

We agree on a lot, but this statement will be found out Thursday. If we lose Thursday, to a team we should be beat, who is starting a QB that a lot of fans wanted to draft (while our draft pick is riding the bench) - I think you will see a revolt from the fans instantly.

I honestly think, this game Thursday is hues future at this point. If we win, he will get some leeway. If we lose, I think he is done.

If anyone revolts if we lose Thursday ... it’s be a shame ... with the progress we’ve made ... that’d be a real shame ..

All i can say to those who think if we lose this game Hue should be canned ..

To quote the one and only Forrest Gump’s mother ....

Nuff said ....

If we lose Thursday, it shouldn't be about Hue getting canned, but depending on how Tyrod plays, it could warrant discussing playing Baker, IMO. You'd have more time inbetween games to get him ready and it's not like our QB play has been good thus far. I think Tyrod has been pretty bad these past two games, so I have no quams about starting the play Baker movement if TT plays poorly three games in a row.

That said, if TT improves and has a good game Thursday night. Keep on keeping on with Tyrod.

j/c:

I think the announcers in the last game gave a little bit away regarding Taylor and Baker. Did anyone else hear the subtle, off-handed mention of the the "Bye" when they were talking about asking Hue when Baker might play?

I don't know if Baker is ready or not, but if they think he's ready, inserting him after the bye week is probably a great time to do so.

Hue getting canned if we lose to the Jets is IMO the worse thing we can do. It will disrupt all the positive things we've been doing for the last 8 months or so. Our Browns need stability at this point and to continue to come together as a team. If a HC change is needed do it at the end of the year but I don't think it will be necessary. JMO

That has been my bet for the last few weeks now.
We have what... a Week 10 Bye? That's nearly PERFECT for finding a balance between starting him right away vs letting him sit a while.