DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum OPTIMISM: Why IT IS DIFFERENT this year!!!

U picked us by 3 today ....

YOUR A GOSH DARN GENIUS JULES ....

U let me know what u and Miss Michelle would like ... the mayor is your personal servant for the week ...

Que it up DJ ...

We're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat.

After that ugly yet beautiful kick, everyone at the tiki bar raised their glasses and had a moment of silence for Raven Killer. RIP, buddy. We will always have a seat here for you.

I thought of him at the end of the game. The kid is smiling. That make me extra happy.

Let me know when you need a refill

Browns NFL rankings after Week 5:
1st in takeaways with 15
1st in turnover ratio at +8
1st in rushing yards with 723
1st in opp. fumble recoveries with 7
t-1st in rushes of 10+ yards with 23
t-1st in rushes of 20+ yards with 6

https://twitter.com/DMurph_BrownsPR/status/1049670866072727552

Yesterday was a rough loss, but I am still optimistic about this team.

I have maintained that this year is about developing the young talent and learning how to win some games that we always used to lose.

I think we're doing that. Baker looked bad yesterday, but he is a rookie. The Chargers had a good scheme against him. Now, it's about Baker learning to adjust. The experience that he--and others--gain this year will be huge moving forward.

I trust Dorsey to use free agency, trades, and the draft to further improve the roster next off-season. I suspect we will be a much better team next year.

I fully understand why fans get high expectations and then why they are upset when reality sets in. I raised my eyebrows more than once last week after so many fans talked about the Browns beating the Chargers.

I think it might be wise to temper the enthusiasm regarding how many we win and lose this year and just enjoy the ride as this team continues to improve.

Well said, Vers.

Agreed and well said. I was happy after the 1st 5 games but I didn't get too high because I knew we were young and a game or games like yesterday would occur. There will be more games like yesterday this year and there should be more good ones too. Keep it in perspective.

Hue's head looks like Wilson

j/c:

This team is much better than the last 3 years, but don't let that get in the way of calling for firing a dude you don't like.

This team IS better.

But, they still lost.

And yes, I'm bitter about the loss today, for many reasons.

Did you even watch the game, arch? Do you really think that loss was hue's fault?

You have ballpeen going on about the 4th and 2, you have other posters who want a coach fired because they have ADD and like shiny new things.

And then, you have yet another block of posters who don't seem to understand the process on building a football team, especially with a rookie QB, who was very good today, btw.

There's bigger issues lamp.

There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that has a chance to trickle down to the players. Hue diming Haley out in his presser was his ticket out of town. Haslam and Dorsey are extremely unhappy with not keeping that type of stuff in the locker room.

Then you add Hue's inability to win any game at all, even winnable games and it's a big pile of crapshow.

Can't let it infect the players. If something is done soon, it's to save the players from being caught up in it. Trust is an issue right now.

Let me know when the news happens. Soon we'll need a coach's hoodie with names from Palmer to Jackson.

What were experiencing now is callled GROWING PAINS ..... its not just the FUTULITY we’ve grown accustomed too ...

Were on the CUSP ... not on the BRINK ....

You're right, we are on the edge. I'm just not certain at this point, which direction we're going...

It's tough to tell anymore from my perspective. Even after the Oakland game (when we lost) I still felt a good vibe with the team ... after yesterday (and the comments in the media, signs of dissension, etc) I don't know

The vibe is still good. We just aren't winning. We have a D that seems to be able to get the ball. We have good running backs and a QB who looks to have a bright future. That all bodes well for the future.

We just aren't winning. I suspect that Dorsey will see to it that we fix that as well.

Yes, I do agree ... our turnover ratio is a good thing. Our QB is a good starting place. We can't seem to get over the hump, which is so frustrating ... and I sense that frustration might be spilling over behind the scenes

If true, this is very disquieting. I'm generally OK this season with Hue's coaching but he has to stop throwing his coaches under the bus in public. I think Haley's play calling has been good, outside of the odd headscratcher. I do not want want Hue calling plays per last season. By nature, I am an optimist and want to remain so, but this staff has to resolve any differences and present a unified front...

This is about TALENT .... its there ... its YOUNG and RAW and needs to be GROWN ... it will ...

Its not going to happen overnight .... it takes time ... especially with the STUPID INJURIES ...

Look at our O guys ... we have a rookie QB handing off to a rookie RB and throwing passes to two rookie WR’s and his blind side is being protected by another rookie .... think about that for a second ... seriously ...

On D we have MG and Obi and Ward and Randall to build around ...

This is TOUGH ... especially how its happening ... DANG is this TOUGH ...

This is GUT WRENCHING GUYS ... seriously gut wrenching stuff every week ... EVERY WEEK and then u add to it the actually TAKING AWAY OF A WIN ... it was ours ... game was over ... NOPE ...

We have had NO GUT WRENCHING losses in how long ...

There still L’s ... but there BUILDING BLOCK L’s not U SUCK AGAIN L’s ...

Its called the Isle of OPTIMISM not EASY STREET .....

Thats gonna take care of itself ... it’ll work it self out one way or another ... losing takes its toll on a staff also ...

There either gonna hunker down together and work through it or NOT ...

Dorsey’s a pro .... at least he seems to be acting like one so far from what i can tell .... he’ll straighten it out ...

And when he does .. the TALENT will still be there to be coached by whomever it is ... and the TALENT is what wins football games ..

At this point the only person I trust in the building is Dorsey. You cannot continue on with Hue Jackson though, the man is a straight up cancer. He = losing and is that culture. If we want to be a successful football team, it won't happen until we shed him.

Too bad horrible officiating does not take care of itself.

Once again, another week were blatant and one sided calls cost seemingly cost us a game, or put us in a position we should not have been in to lose the game.

That was a fumble.

That was a head shot on baker - All QBs running get to slide and the benefits of it.

No, no....no false start there!

FYI, I lost count on how many times Myles was held with no call after I hit 12.

Where did I say it was Hue's fault?

Here's what I said:

to me, there's nothing tangible that Hue did wrong yesterday ... there wasn't a call or timeout or anything that cost us

But, the results are what they are ... we just continue to LOSE these games

I don't even know if it's his fault. I don't even know if he should be fired.

All I know is we could easily be 5-2 and we are 2-5

And Hue is the HC so he’s the lighting rod ...

Dawg .... imagine going into a season with your senior point gaurd going down in game 3 and your raw as all heck freshman point gaurd has to come in and take his place ... then your junior center goes down with a foot injury and his sophomore back up is declared academically ineligible so u have to call up the 8th grade center from the freshman team ....

Thats what were faced with on O ...

Whats bake started now ... all of 4 games .... that was chubby first start ... ratley’s 2nd as a regular ... Callaway should be on the practice squad ... Harrison the wiley vet has 7 starts under his belt ...

PERSPECTIVE is a wonderful thing dawg ...

That's why Hue should have been fired 2 seasons ago.

How can one even be in the same building with such a person ... He will survive anything, providing there are enough people, and enough buses...

He should start his own Cult...

What we're experiencing now is called being a 5-11 team. We've been so far below that for so long that we've forgotten how painful a lofty five wins can be. That kind of team has enough talent to be in games, but more often than not does not pull out the win..... tantalizingly close to being a .500 team, but just can't get there.

That's us.

Remember all those years in a row of going of 4-12 or 5-11? That's what we're trying to claw our way back up to.

From July: https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...ivi#Post1474356

Good coaching manifests itself in so many ways. It goes far beyond the results of a single 4th down play.

Good coaching can mean getting just a teeny, tiny bit more out of the players on your roster. Add it all up and it's often the difference between a win and a loss in this "game of inches".

It's the motivating the players, cleaning up that technique error they have, coaching them up, avoiding penalties, knowing their skills and putting them in positions where they will succeed, etc etc etc. It's hard to track all these possible effects and most don't even try.

You are what your record says you are. Yeah it's a bit crass, and it's true that there are differences in talent, organizational structure, luck on the field (getting a good/bad break in a close game) and all that. I realize I'm getting away from the initial intent of the phrase there as there is a lot of truth to it-- good coaches find ways to win games. They teach and coach their players who improve as the season goes on.

+1.

We are not getting better and we are not winning games.

There are reasons why Tomlin's "down years" are 8-8, and our down years are 1-15, 0-16, 2 and whatever. There are reasons why teams like the ravens are always near the top of the standings right with Pittsburgh, or NE always in the hunt for a SB, even when they have 4 playmakers out and Kevin Hogan as their number 2 WR.

Yup. I recall the Pats going 11-5 the year Brady got knocked out of the season in week 1. 3-1 during a more recent suspension. The Steelers have similarly managed during Ben's absences. The QB means a lot, just not everything.

The Pats draft in the late 20s/early 30s every year. I highly doubt they draft so much better than everyone else to make up for that disadvantage. It's not like they can just draft players like Myles Garrett, Baker Mayfield, Denzel Ward. They never pick that early (in fairness, Denzel Ward came from the Houston pick but having it be #4 was very lucky.)

I see the Pats roster and it's the same thing every year. That team shouldn't be as good as it is. A lot of that is coaching.

In fairness, the line between drafting and coaching isn't always so clear. Some of the things traditionally assigned to drafting-- how good players turn out-- are also heavily influenced by how well they are coached and developed along the way. And some of the things traditionally assigned to caoching-- for example how disciplined and smart players are-- have a lot to do with identifying and drafting those types of players in the first place. That team is obviously doing a lot of things right though.

Just want to comment a bit on posts stating we could easily be 6-1. I say this not trying to be negative, positive, pro-Hue or anti Hue or any players. WE are also extremely close to being 1-6. When you play close games, one or two plays each game can make the difference.

One pass dropped, one false start that kills a drive, one bad official call, one "amazing catch" by the opposition, one 3rd or 4th down conversion you miss by 4 inches, one pass with the receiver getting their feet in bounds by 4 inches, a key turnover. We don't have a lot of room for error. Maybe in game 15 we will me more mature and breaks will start t go our way.

Yet, we consistently prove the converse of this year after year.

If we can consistently draft as badly as we do at the top of the Draft, it very much so stands to reason that a team knowing what it is doing can draft really well when picking at the bottom of each round.



It also helps that they have Brady and regularly get the benefit of the Refs, too.

That said, Belichick's discipline model is SORELY needed here. From the outside looking in, it feels like we have no discipline or consequences here, at all.

Oh we've definitely blown more than our fair share of draft pick windfalls, no debate there.

The overriding point is that the Pats are not this stacked team, loaded with great players at every position. https://www.patriots.com/team/depth-chart

They still seem to be doing ok. You have to go back to 2010 for the last season they didn't at least make the conference championship game, which is pretty ridiculous in a league that does so much to promote parity.

A lot of that is coaching. A lot of it is also Brady, and other people in the building. I don't think it's because of the refs, however.

Tuck Rule, lol


They get calls go their way against pretty much everyone the way the Steelers get calls going their way against us. Doubly so when playing at Home.

Tuck rule was good fortune. Belichick has been there almost twenty years though, of course there are going to be good breaks and bad breaks.

Take a bad one.. and let's test my memory at the same time. 4th and 2 at the Pats own ~30 yard line, up by 6 in the 4th quarter vs the Colts. Belichick goes for it!

It's a short pass to Kevin Faulk, who initially bobbles the catch, but then regains possession and pretty clearly gets past the line to gain. Yet they mark it short, and that was even held up via replay.

I remember watching that play at the time and my thoughts were the refs wanted to punish the Pats for going for it when they weren't supposed to. I have no idea if that is true and it's something we'll never know, but that's how it goes sometimes.

The Pats aren't winning 12+ games every year because of the officiating.

Also you have to figure in that the Pats value intelligence and coachability more than most (all?) other teams. And Belichick is probably the best to ever do it.. he regularly drills his team on obscure situations and playing smart football. That's probably reflected in penalties/crucial situations although I don't have data on hand for that.