DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 21 Jets 17 Upon Further Review

I watched the game for a second time this evening. Here are some thoughts that I didn't really note the first time around.

--The D won the game. They really only gave up one TD drive. The blocked punt was the other one. They dominated in the second half.

--Mayfield was not quite as accurate as I thought he was. People keep mentioning the drops, but man, there were a lot of really good catches.

--His leadership is unquestionable though.

--I also really liked how Baker was rooting so hard for the team when he wasn't playing. He seems to be a great teammate.

--Hyde was more physical than I thought.

--Hubbard struggled, but he had a great seal block on our last TD.

--Myles played way more on the left side than I thought. It was usually Avery who was getting sealed.

--Carey played a lot and I didn't see BBC at all on D.

--Chris Smith got juked once, but man, he made some great plays against the run.

--tab made a post about Hue not giving Baker credit. Hue spoke of the "energy." He was talking about what Baker brought to the field. An apology should be issued. Also, the moment between Hue and Baker at the end of the game was very nice.

--Schobert was all over the field.

--I mentioned Ogunjobi in my first post, but he was even better than I thought. This dude could end up being a top DT in this league. He is very quick and has adequate strength.

--I had thought Collins played okay, but man, he gets sealed so easily. It's like he goes through the motions.

--Njoku can't block a lick.

--Haley needs a bra. LOL Dude, try the bench press.

--It was so cool to see the love that was going on between the players and fans after the game.

--Our coaches made better adjustments than their coaches did.

--Higgins made more plays than I thought. He had one very nice catch on the sideline.

--Callaway was abusing Claiborne on one-on-one situations. Those penalties were big. This dude can be something special.

--Duke isn't being used much.

--One thing didn't change. We won again. LOL

--

I can't wait to see us start working in some more plays that can really take advantage of Baker's abilities. He got the ball out so quickly, and he made good decisions almost across the board. I think that he was really amped, and that affected his accuracy a bit. (and I agree he was just a little off on some of his throws) They were still catchable, though, but I think he'd say that he needs to be better.

-- Peppers should not be returning kicks of any kind - dude is just not quick
enough.
-- Mitchell is very underrated. He has played well all year. So refreshing
having quality CB play this year
-- Hyde is really good around the goal line - showed good patience on 2nd TD.
-- Avery did a pretty nice job in coverage.
-- Chris Smith has been a pleasant surprise.
-- Kicker made all his kicks but they were certainly not automatic.
-- Denzel, Myles, Larry, Jarvis, and Baker are difference makers.

YES, so true. Driving me crazy. He fair catches when he should return and returns when he should fair catch. Doesnt know how to make a move and gain 5 yards like most PR.

Other things I noticed on rewatch:

I was defending Taylor to my family because he played well game 2 and we knew he was a conservative guy that runs a lot when we traded for him, but he was baaaaad this game.

To the point where I almost wonder if he had a concussion earlier in the game. He was just missing wide open WRs, not seeing the blitzes and just overall looking like a deer in headlights. His missed throws were WAY off. He may not be the greatest QB but he could throw a basic short pass before.

I love Bitonio so much. Not just for the fumble recovery but he was knocking guys out in the run game.

I want to watch this game again so bad ... i don't have acces to it ... i can only watch the replay of it on my i-pad and that doesn’t allow the replay function ...

Did u happen to notice what we did to get the edge sealed in the 2nd half ... did Avery play less at de, die he do a better job ... did we cheat a lber out that way ... very curious ... if u happenend to notice please elaborate ...

Also one of the questions we had on Bake was if he could throw into tight windows ...

Did u notice anything on that “front” ..

Ty sir ...

I noticed that too. Still catchable balls, but Receivers made the catches.

The sideline toss to Callaway was a TD if he led him a little to the Inside of the field versus the sidelines.

Mayfield has some serious ZIP on his passes and knows when to put "Touch" on it.

This next one was OBVIOUS and is what you get when you have a QB that can hit at ALL LEVELS.

Mayfield was responsible for MAKING the Jets RESPECT the deeper part of the field. THAT is the reason they backed off on the blitz happy stuff they were doing when Taylor was in the game. That's exactly what will happen going forward. THAT right there will make this Offense click.

Defenses will need to respect ALL LEVELS of the field, and sideline to sideline. That will open up the running game and get 8 out of the box.

One thing I LOVED was Haley DID NOT abandon the running game. Even though we were down 14, we continued to run a BALANCED Offense.

Mayfield was like a tactician out there. Decisive and hit ALL Receivers. Many times a ROOK will lock onto that one receiver. Ala Landry. But he spread the ball around to everyone.

This wasn't a Holcomb coming in for Couch when trailing big and having to sling it all over the field. THIS WAS BALANCE.

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that this Offense, headed by Mayfield will put up 30+ MULTIPLE times going forward.

This dude is FEARLESS. And Haley's gonna open up the playbook now that Taylor is gonna sit.

Man, WHAT A SCRIPT. #1 vs #3 picks, In Cleveland, Down by 14 on a National scene. This is EXACTLY what we needed to get the fans back in the game going forward because I'm telling you, with 3 minutes left in the 1st half, that Stadium was DEFLATED.

I'm one that wanted Mayfield to SIT as long as possible and go thru the motions week in and week out, but I'm telling you, THIS KAT IS READY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder how much that had to do with the timing with the recievers he hasn’t worked with much ... that had to have sumptin to do with it ,,, i just wonder how much ...

Hopefully that improves ...

NO DOUBT.

That's part of what makes what he did even more incredible.

Joe Thomas hit on it BIG after the game.

HOW did you do that after not having even ONE REP with 1st teamers and on a short week?

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

I rarely use the terms DE or OLB. I have talked about this before, but these positions are rather fluid depending on the down, distance, and situation. For example, there were times when we were in our base package and we had a traditional DE and OLBer, but there are plenty of times where we have an "Edge" guy.

Once you get into some passing situations, you get out of your base defense and go to packages. That's when you have your edge rusher. Thus, Myles, Smith, Avery, and the new dude who came from Detroit all played on the edge.

The above is important because we are not in our base defense for the majority of snaps. We gotta get away from assigning confining labels on these guys. Take a look at cfrs's Snap Count link. Guys like Carey [a DB] played a significant amount of snaps. That means we were not in our base package. Think Edge rusher, rather than DE or OLB in those situations.

I also want to say something else about the containment. It isn't just about the DE or the Edge rusher. Other guys are also responsible at times for providing outside containment. You can have your corner out there. You can run your SS out there. You can run your Sam or Will out there. Teams are always mixing up their looks so they don't become predictable.

Watching the game, there were several guys that were responsible for maintaining outside containment. I saw Myles get sealed. I saw Avery get sealed a couple of times. I saw Collins get sealed a few times. I saw our corner lose containment. Those were individual mistakes. Then again, some times you just have to give the other team credit for exploiting the weak side and/or making a good block.

I also saw that we started running guys to the edge as the game went along. WSU and I talked about why this is when we were discussing inside and outside zone blocking. And the Jets run a ZBS w/Dennison as their OL coach. That system gets guys on the defense to flow to the sidelines. They are then succeptable to cutbacks. I think the Browns did a very good job of maintaining their gaps when they started to flow to the sidelines.

He did. He made a couple of throws that were amazing in regards to fitting the ball into a tight window. He had one that was in the red zone and thrown to the left hash that was mind boggling.

I do worry about him throwing some picks. He takes some chances and misses some reads. Luckily that one dude dropped an easy pick in the end zone. Baker never saw him. But yeah, he most certainly did fit some throws into tight windows.

Ya ... you’ve been talking about the terms quite a bit over the last couple of weeks ... i’m Appearantly still adjusting ... *L* ... be patient with me ... i’ll Get there .. u just may have to remind me a few more times ...

Thanks for clarifying the terms once again and thanks for speaking on containment ...

I ASSumed it was MG or Smith or Avery because there DE’s by terms but i was wrong ... imagine that ... i ASSumed and i was wrong ... that hardly ever happens .. *L* ...

So there were many guys responsible for not sealing as opposed to just the ones i singled out ... makes sense ...

Some day we’ll have to discuss some of the intcrecies of that ... i understand what a DE end is .. i understand what a LBer is ... when those two are in there traditional positions i have no problems ...

Now we introduce edge guy ... that means were in a package that is non traditional ... after that i’m lost .... no clue what guys have what responsibility ... and i get the feeling theres to many packages to really explain it to my dumb ass on here ....

It sounds like your saying Williams threw more guys out to the edge to help with the contain ... is that correct or did i mis understand? ...

Ty sir ... appreciate the time and patience ...

Good news on Bake ...

IMO that was our 2nd biggest question ... behind “processing” info ....

Thats HUGE ...

It looked that we had more guys flowing towards the sideline, but again, that is also part of what an outside zone blocking scheme wants you to do.

You're right there are different responsibilities in the packages. There are many different calls you can make. Think about it like it being similar to offense in how many different routes there are in a route tree or how many different blocking assignments there are for the OL.

I would have a tough time calling out the responsibilities just by watching a game at live speed. It has to be done by watching a particular play over and over again in slow mo to really break it down.

Good post Vers...a lot of good sights you noticed and queued in on.

I re-watched the game yesterday too.

Njoku will never be a great blocker, but very few pass-catching TEs are great at it.

There were a couple plays last night that gave me hope that he can improve and at least be adequate, the main one being Hyde's TD run that got called back because of Landry's block in the back. Njoku does a pretty good job of sealing his man to the outside and clearing some space for Hyde to cut inside of him. It was a slow developing run too, so he had to hold his block for a bit.

Like I said, he'll probably never be great, but I think he is getting better slightly.

As others have noted, Baker Mayfield has some minor to moderate issues which need work. His accuracy is quite good but sometimes inconsistent. Footwork can be quite good but sometimes inconsistent. Let's not forget that strip fumble that Bitonio recovered. And so on and so on.

Here's the really happy news. All of Baker's issues can be vastly improved and solved with hard work, more practice, and experience. He's a little rough around the edges for now, but he'll become quite polished and smooth in due time.

Baker has a lot of qualities that aren't as amenable to practice and experience. He has tremendous innate leadership and charisma, what they call in the military, "Command Presence". He has great poise in the pocket. He makes fast decisions and executes them quickly.

But Baker is going to struggle this year, later in the season. NFL defensive coordinators will need about four to six games worth of tape to figure out Mayfield's weaknesses and Haley's playcalling tendencies. Once they get all that figured out, Baker will face defenses specifically designed to take him down. He'll struggle for a while but he will adjust and compensate, though possibly not until next season. It will be fun to watch him develop and blossom into a fine quarterback.

Baker should enjoy pretty smooth sailing for the next month. Let us really enjoy these games. But along about the Steelers or Chiefs game, he'll discover just how tough an NFL defense can really be.

Some first team practice reps hopefully begin to clear minor issues up. Anything major will take experience f fixable.

I like the call out of Callaway abusing Claiborne pretty much all night. He torched him a few times, safety had to come over to help a few times and a few penalties.

Besides the drop that hit I think every part of his body...thought he played well.

I wonder .....

How much of Baker's slightly imperfect placement was because he rarely practices with these receivers?

That's one thing that gives me even more hope. He hasn't really practiced with these guys for at least 3 weeks. (and in the case of Landry, maybe hardly at all)

Fyi:

https://youtu.be/KYVCxXIJ1UE

Our game condensed. From the official NFL YouTube channel. They posted it for free.

excellent!

I posted this by mistake in the possum thread. I don't know how to move it so I just reposted.

I watched the second half again last night and I noticed the accuracy issues a bit. Some of those windows were so tight and he managed by inches to get them through.

One thing I did notice though, was Baker seemed to do something I haven't seen consistently from a Browns QB in a long time.

He throws the ball before the receiver is open. I think that is more difficult to do and it relies on the receiver making a play. Many of those passes can easily be an interception if the DB makes a better play. Our receivers won those battles.

I expect Baker to throw some pics, and it wouldn't surprise me if throws quite a few, but I prefer that to holding it for a long time each pass waiting for a guy to be "college open".

Big Ben constantly throws to Antonio Brown when he is well covered, but Brown makes the plays.

^ Tom throws to Gronk when he's double covered too...

Sometimes its about trusting your receivers to go up and get it, and also putting it in a position where your guy has the best chance to make a play on the ball.

Landry's catch from that game is a good example of this IMO.

I was at the stadium... Baker looked nearly perfect from the club section lol.

After rewatching the game the next morning... and the wall to wall Baker coverage throughout the day, I was a little shocked to see everyone saying he was perfect.

Don't get me wrong, he played a great game - but ball placement was far from perfect. I also remember thinking - man, if that fumble is recovered by the Jets, or the interception that could have been, do we lose and look at this performance as 100% "meh"?

Upon further review, some other things were confirmed though. As I'm watching the game the boxing analogy crossed my brain. Baker just "gets off"... and Tyrod can't seem to do so to save his life.

That, and Bake just throws a beautiful ball... tight, crisp, just cuts through the air. That will pay huge dividends on a windy day on the lake.

Also, Baker's footwork "is what it is". I think people are being picky because it's not "prototypical". He shuffles but he plants and throws with lightning quick precision. It keeps him loose and allows him to navigate the pocket - don't expect it to change, it doesn't need to.

Really good and informative post. I think it is easy for the somewhat knowledgeable fan to understand the tha the OLB and DE position have been morphed into the edge rusher in passin situations. However old guys like me still struggle understanding what their assignments are in running downs as it has changed a lot over the last 10 year.

Thanks I learned a lot

IMO Baker couldn't have looked much better or encouraging. Everyone saw and felt the same thing.

I also think the next few weeks will tell a huge story for us ... let's see how he improves and/or regresses after adjustments are made on each side.

100% WILLIE ... i learned a lot too ...

I’m a old fart too ... what i dont understand is Vers isn’t a sprint chicken yet he grasps this no problem ... whats wrong with me and u ... *LOL* ...

Hue owes Baker an apology and a big, giant THANK YOU for saving Hue's bacon. The insistence on not giving Baker ANY #1 reps was moronic as we saw in pre-season when TT went down...then Hue doubled-down with no #1 reps going forward into the season. Hue built the foundation of a QB controversy and Baker - and TT's concussion - saved his butt and probably his job.

In my mind, Hue is 1-1-1 and whiffed on every QB decision he's made since we hired him...he needs to get better.

Please don't hijack this thread.

Wait...I was talking about what happened in the game and upon further review. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's outside the realm of the thread topic.


Don't sweat it...you'll be reading that statement more than once.

Alright. Go ahead and hijack it. I'm out.

Bro, you are only allowed to post "Vers approved" content.

Upon further review, Baker shined BUT is still very much a rookie. Expect bumps people, but we got our guy.

I agree. Baker will undoubtedly struggle, especially between now and the end of this 1st year ... but he showed MORE than enough for us to feel good IMO.

He'll have to become more comfortable w/progressions, reading defenses, knowing the offense, etc. But from what I saw, his release, energy, leadership, etc is excellent

Lmao. Whatever dude. Wow.

U just don't get it.

He gets it and knows exactly what he's doing. Just stirring the pot.

Just commenting...

Was Baker perfect? No... but no qb is and there’s always things that can be pointed out. Given that Baker has had next to no reps with the 1’s, what he did was VERY impressive. He’s a naturally accurate passer and what you see on the field will only get better now that he actually gets to practice with these guys. Chemistry with his receivers is at the beginning of development. Landry had a drop where he just didn’t expect the ball to come so fast... TT throws so soft so there will be an adjustment period.

No doubt he might throw some picks. He has a little Favre in him, but with a guy like that you have to take the bad with the good.

He is opposite from TT. He is going to fire it all over the field and to the window he anticipates, not just waiting for a guy to get open.

Some good observations. I was up in Cleveland and just got back a hour ago. It was hard to pull up much vid on the slow hotel wifi. I just go with the Marriott free wifi and don't pay $11 a day for the better. I may watch some tonight. Just from a fan in the stadium perspective, it was a pretty nice 2nd half performance by the team.

I only saw 2 caught balls that were outside of the comfortable catch radius of the receiver (discounting the pass to Njoku in the 2nd quarter that was beautifully placed low and behind- away from the oncoming safety).

Considering he is releasing most of his balls on timing routes and prior to cuts from receivers that he didn't put much work in with, I was blown away.

And I'm hoping to be forever grateful that the Raiders traded Mack come next Sunday.

Best game I've seen since the days of run willie run.

I feel ten years younger this weekend.