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I wasn't going to even acknowledge your juvenile reply, but you acually sound like a high schooler, a girl at that. Maybe you should have used the word "like" a few times.
 X2 to you.......there you feel better now that I'm on your level 
NAAA I will feel better when you learn something about football and Kickers. This is not the first time you have bashed Dawson, it goes back a few years. Name three other kickers who could have put up the numbers Phil did while kicking at CBS. Hell Phil has been a top ten kicker ever since he entered the NFL even Stevie Wonder, and Ray Charles can see that.
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You've witnessed endzone kicks, and I've witnessed botched chip shots, so what point are you trying to make, besides that you think you know it all?
Maybe he is making the point that Dawson's leg is not weak. As for your comment on the botched chip shots, every kicker has them. Guys don't make 100 percent of their field goal attempts.
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1. He hasn't been in a two year slump...actually it was the 2nd half of last year where he started missing FGs that he always hit before which means his concentration level wasn't there.
2. It was obvious that we were having another losing season - possibly that faltered his concentration.
3. It was also reported that he had a youngster really ill and in the hospital...possibly his concentration faltered with that going on and us losing.
4. His leg is not weak...he chooses to hit it high.
5. He was 3 for 3 with KC...he got one shot here and it missed.
6. I notice that the flight of his normal kick ball is a slight draw at take off then when it starts to reach apex it straightens out in flight.
7. This flight of the ball was a draw at take off then it turned into a hook as it continued its flight...not his normal boot.
8. Look very closely if you got the tape. Zadstudil gets the snap places the ball down and spins it so that the laces stop directly away so that it points towards the Crossbars. But this occasion the spin Over Rotates and the laces are clearly on the left. Familiar with baseball and pitching rotations coincidently those laces on the left would create a spin that would curve the ball towards the left. Maybe this isn't all on Dawson.
JMHO - Its preseason...get our mistakes done and over with now! See them, Fix Them! Get ready for the real games.
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NAAA I will feel better when you learn something about football and Kickers. This is not the first time you have bashed Dawson, it goes back a few years. Name three other kickers who could have put up the numbers Phil did while kicking at CBS. Hell Phil has been a top ten kicker ever since he entered the NFL even Stevie Wonder, and Ray Charles can see that.
So I know nothing about football? I guess your 5000 acohol induced oneliners make you an expert. 
The key word you use is "has", as in the past tense.
Look, I'm sorry for the way I'm replying, but the condescending manner in which you reply to me gets under my skin.
I like Dawson, but feel his best days are past. How does this prove I know nothing about football?
I stated my opinion, you rediculed me. That is hardly a discussion. It IMO is another lame attempt by you to be funny I guess.
The way you are defending him, by using his past performance, is what I'm talking about when I say some fans just never let go.
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That is not the case, maybe last season towards the last half. He had over a two season span something like 29 straight FG's made. We have changed his holder a couple of times now since Gardi left. He will be fine once the season starts again.
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I think you're being quite sensitive.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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So I know nothing about football? I guess your 5000 acohol induced oneliners make you an expert.
Only 500 of them are acohol induced
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The key word you use is "has", as in the past tense.
Yet you were bashing him in the past. What's your excuse for bashing him in 2003, 2004, 2005 ? You have it in your head thats Dawson's no good, and you are blinded to the fact that he has been a good kicker. *Yep I said has again* because none of us can predict the future, but based on his past performance there is no reason to think he won't be a good kicker again this year.
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Look, I'm sorry for the way I'm replying, but the condescending manner in which you reply to me gets under my skin.
Then you need to thicken it up. Geez and you called ME a girl.
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I stated my opinion, you rediculed me.
Thats only because your opinion doesn't mesh with the facts.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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About Phil Dawson.
If Dawson had finished last season strong ..... then his misses this pre-season could be attributed to fine tuning his game. He could possibly be trying a new kicking technique for certain situations. Hell ..... I don't know .... it could be anything that would be of little concern ...... if he hadn't struggled so badly at the end of last season.
Usually when a kicker goes bad, he goes bad in a hurry. I am really worried that Dawson might be on that slippery slope to "former kicker". Hopefully I'm wrong. I have defended Dawson in the past when some complained about leg strength, etc., when the charges weren't supported by his production ...... but count me in the "concerned" category right now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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1st String
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you are not alone on this one....
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I'm concerned as well. I hope it's just a case of the "yips" and that he's just gotta kick his way through it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Yeah he had a nasty ass slice last night. Hopefully he is fine tuning his kicks or something and using preseason to do just that. It does make me a lil nervous though.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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Weeks ago someone asked who might be a surprise cut. I said Dawson is a guy who could lose his job. I don't wanna see it, but I wouldn't be shocked.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Weeks ago someone asked who might be a surprise cut. I said Dawson is a guy who could lose his job. I don't wanna see it, but I wouldn't be shocked.
Yeah ..... but do we even have another viable kicker in camp? Has this Ainsworth kid even attempted a FG in any of the pre-season gmes?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not sure, but IIRC he missed an attempt. I'm probably just talking out of my hat with regard to Phil getting cut, but his kicking IS a concern right now.
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I get nervous everytime Dawson lines up to kick any field goal over 40 yards, and I have for the last few seasons.
Something feels off with him.
But he's probably the best we are going to get for this season. Hopefully, he turns it around.
Seems like a good guy, and he deserves to be here to see this ship get righted.
Come on Phil, we want to see you return to form.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Quote:
Weeks ago someone asked who might be a surprise cut. I said Dawson is a guy who could lose his job. I don't wanna see it, but I wouldn't be shocked.
Yeah ..... but do we even have another viable kicker in camp? Has this Ainsworth kid even attempted a FG in any of the pre-season gmes?
Yes. And he missed. Not exactly encouraging.
But, hey, it was only 2 seasons ago that he was 27 for 29 on FG's...He surely can't "just lose it".
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Daman, when other player's talent wanes they are replaced, why not Dawson?
Well, if you would have bothered answering my other question then you would know the answer,,
Show me an available replacement and I'm all for it,,,,, But there just isn't one.,
#GMSTRONG
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Green Bay has Raynor and the rookie Crosby. One will get released.
Dallas has Gramatica and the rookie Folks. One will get released.
Raynor is solid. Maybe not a tremendous upgrade over Dawson in accuracy but has better leg strength for better kickoffs and some 50 yarders. Has Dawson ever hit a 50 yarder?
I am not a fan of Gramatica but if Dallas decides to stick with the veteran Folks has looked good from what I have seen.
Either of the rookies (Folks/Crosby) would be a good pickup in my opinion.
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I've had John Carney on my fantasy teams before and he did well....why was he released? There's also John Hall.
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But, hey, it was only 2 seasons ago that he was 27 for 29 on FG's...He surely can't "just lose it".
He surely can. Just look at the names under your post. Carney, Gramatica....there's more than a few kickers that were once good and are now mediocre at best.
Then you have Morten Anderson...he was still making them last year at 46yo. He wants to play until he's 50, I hope somebody picks him up.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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dawson just ahit a 51 yarder this past season if I'm not mistaken. I'm not too concerened about Dawson. He will be fine during the season. I'm wondering if it's the holder?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Jester and Michelle,,, yeah, Ok.. so you named a few guys,, great..
Are they really upgrades,, and if not, why bother.. again, let me be clear. I have NO problem dumping dawson if a REAL, LIVE UPGRADE can be brought in to take his place.. But doing it to get another so so guy or maybe another guy whos over the hill makes little or no sense..
I'd rather dance with the one who brung me in that case,
Dawson has a history of being pretty darn accurate and consistent.. last year he was injured or so it was reported.. he's supposedly healthy this year., not sure if that's true or not,
So, because of his longivity with the Browns and his overall performance, I'd say give him the benefit of the doubt before you replace him with someone that is NOT a clear upgrade with a long term future with the Browns.. doesn't make sense otherwise
.
#GMSTRONG
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Damon - I get your point and wouldn't get rid of Dawson just to get rid of him. I wouldn't trade him in for Gramatica or Morten Anderson. I would have to flip a coin on Raynor, but would probably keep Dawson. I would need to research Raynor a little more.
But if one of those rookies becomes available I would make the move. Even if Dawson regains his accuracy how many more years does he have in that leg of his? The rookies may not be a significant upgrade this year but in 2-3 years when we are a pereneal playoff team then the upgrade will be significant.
SBD - Re the 50 yarders - I was being somewhat facetious to make a point. I am sure he has hit a 50 yarder before. Dawson's range has always been a concern but it seems that the range he has for supreme accuracy is shrinking.
BrowniePoints - Many kickers have "just lost it". I'll add to the list Gramatica and Vanderjagt. Vanderjagt went from one of if not "the" most accurate kickers of all time to out of football in what 2 seasons or less.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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But if one of those rookies becomes available I would make the move.
Ok, I missed something,, what rookies are you refering to...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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But if one of those rookies becomes available I would make the move
You'd rather have a FA rookie kicker who was cut from another team to replace Dawson?
<><
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another guy to look at is in Indianapolis- the announcers the other night were half joking about keeping him in salary cap move. Of course Vinateri is not going anywhere so he will probabaly be out there as well.
But yeah, Dawson is starting to concern me. We can't leave three points on the field.
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He concerns me too Bigfoot,,, I just can't think of a good alternative that's available
#GMSTRONG
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Mason Crosby in GB is a rookie and I am pretty sure Folks is a rookie in Dallas.
Jaybird - We are not going to win the superbowl this year. Getting a promising rookie now and having him become a seasoned vet when we challenge for the playoffs next year and the superbowl in 2009 would be an upgrade over Dawson. Not saying they would be better than him this year but I would say they will be better in 2 years. Looking at the team with realism and a forward thinker. Trying to avoid the short sighted thing.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Yes I was knocking him a couple years ago too, I'll admit it. The difference then was his kick-offs, not so much his FGs.
Last night he had another miss, in fact a knuckle ball wide left. My point is I believe he is losing it, and all the talk about what he has done in the past is mute IMO as far as the present is concerned.
If you like the guy fine, but you have to admit he is losing his consistency. He was never a long fg kicker, and I believe still his average is so high because the Browns kickjed so many FGs in the red zone after failing to punch the ball in. I would love someone to look up the distances from his 05 season.
As the title of the thread changed above, I noticed many other people feeling the same concerns as I have about Dawson. Do you believe none of them know anything about football or kickers.
I also would like you to consider the list of FA kickers, not that I want any one of them in particular, but notice they all were once prominent and very accurate kickers. Why it is so hard for you to believe Dawson could be going down the same road is what puzzles me. It is the exact thing I was referring to when I say fans have love affairs with Browns players after their talent runs it's course. And be damned anybody like myself who questions their ability.
You imply that my opinion doesn't mesh with the facts, but stats from two years ago, are not the facts of the current situation, although I know you would love them to be.
Look at last year and this preseason so far, and see if the facts are the same.
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Quote:
If you like the guy fine, but you have to admit he is losing his consistency. He was never a long fg kicker, and I believe still his average is so high because the Browns kickjed so many FGs in the red zone after failing to punch the ball in. I would love someone to look up the distances from his 05 season.
2/2 in the redzone. 11/11 from 20-29. 9/11 from 30-39. 5/5 from 40-49. One of the misses was against the Titans when he actually made the kick but had to rekick due to some offensive penalty that I don't recall offhand. He kicked horribly in the 2005 preseason also.
I'll become concerned about his performance when it dips into the 50-60% range, like Gramatica, or becomes a head case, like Vanderjagt.
Oh, and of his 190 FG attempts in the NFL, 7 have been in the redzone, and he's made them all.
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... because of his longivity with the Browns and his overall performance, I'd say give him the benefit of the doubt before you replace him with someone that is NOT a clear upgrade...
I tend to agree. But if the misses keep happening...
gmstrong -----------------
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waste of PS player.... just resign him later in the season... no one will pick up a kicker and put them on their PS... those 8 spots are too valueable
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One team cannot sign a player away from another team's practice squad and simply assign him to their own by replacing another PS player with him.
If a team signs away another team's PS player, that player must be added to their active roster .
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I know? that's why I said resign him?
No, you cited the reason is that "those 8 spots are too valueable".
The value of those 8 spots has nothing to do with it. By rule, the only way a team can sign a player off of someone elses PS is if, and only if, they immediately add him to their active roster.
I wasn't calling you stupid. I was only pointing out a rule that it appeared you didn't know. Then you claim you already knew, but your initial post shows otherwise. You seem to have taken it as an insult and it was not meant to be that at all. I was just trying to state a fact by rule.
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Phil Dawson?
Who is the Browns place kicker that sucks ass, Alex.
I'll take Free Agent kickers for $500. 
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Can Zastudil kick field goals?
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Can Zastudil kick field goals?
Can he be worse? My friend went to college with him at OU, he'd know if he kicked down there or not.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Talked to my friend and he said no, he never kicked field goals.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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You imply that my opinion doesn't mesh with the facts, but stats from two years ago, are not the facts of the current situation, although I know you would love them to be.
Stats from the last two years
2-2 from 1-19 yards 100 %
16-17 from 20-29 yards 94.1 %
18-21 from 30-39 yards 80.9 %
11-17 from 40-49 yards 65.3 %
1-1 from 50 + yards 100%
Totals 48-58 82.8 %
Those don't sound like bad numbers to me. Do yourself a favor and compare that to other NFL kickers who do most of their kicking in the north.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If you like the guy fine, but you have to admit he is losing his consistency. He was never a long fg kicker, and I believe still his average is so high because the Browns kickjed so many FGs in the red zone after failing to punch the ball in. I would love someone to look up the distances from his 05 season.
Regardless how many, or where he kicked fields goals, he still kicked them.
AFC__2006_Reg_Season___________________________1-19__________20-29__________30-39_________40-49__________50+
Rank__Player__Team___Made__Att___Pct___Blk___A-M___Pct_____A-M_____Pct___A-M_____Pct____A-M___Pct____A-M____Pct
1____Stover___BAL_____28___30____93.3___0____0-0____0.0___13-12__92.3_____9-9___100.0___7-6___85.7___1-1___100.0
6____Graham___CIN_____25___30____83.3___0____0-0____0.0____9-9__100.0_____9-8____88.9___8-6___75.0___4-2____50.0
12___Dawson___CLE_____21___29____72.4___1____0-0____0.0____6-5___83.3____10-9____90.0___12-6__50.0___1-1___100.0
13___Reed_____PIT_____20___27____74.1___2____1-1__100.0____7-6___85.7____11-8____72.7____7-4__57.1___1-1___100.0
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
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... because of his longivity with the Browns and his overall performance, I'd say give him the benefit of the doubt before you replace him with someone that is NOT a clear upgrade...
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I tend to agree. But if the misses keep happening...
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If the misses keep happening,, then we move on.. Someone else said it, this isn't the year we are going to contend... well, I don't think so anyway.. so it's not really a big issue either way..
But we are gonna be in some tight games this year,, count on it. And a field goal could be the answer.. anyone want a rookie in those pressure situations.. I don't. Unless he is one of those guys like that kid from OSU a few years ago that was almost perfect in college, but went to the jets and, as you might suspect, had a few rough outings.. Nugent?
Some of the guys that a few have brought up may well be very very good and may be able to grow into a fine kicker in the NFL,,, But unless you are really really convinced that they are better than Dawson at this point in time,, I can't understand why anyone would want to change..
Again, show me one rookie that is a CLEAR upgrade, and I'm all for it..
#GMSTRONG
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Again, show me one rookie that is a CLEAR upgrade, and I'm all for it..
That's the problem, there aren't any. Unless a team is willing to spend a draft pick on a 'cant miss' kicker, the choices out there are slim to none.
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