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Something everyone has forgotten during the QB controversy (didn't we just have one of those???) is that with our QBs we will need balance...run and pass. How will our run game measure up and will it be good enough to help Frye? We should be watching this closely even though Lewis gets only several carries...he has been doing very good over four yards a carry 4.4 to be exact. This may be due to poor defenses but wait Wright and Harrision are getting their standard 3.3 yards.
Maybe Crennel is holding back and just playing enough to get ready. I say look to the Oline and our rushers if you expect to win this year...Winslow can only do so much and we know Frye needs some help. The Bears will be a good short preseason test...they have a good defense
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Even if this wasn't preseason it would be too early to tell. Lewis needs a lot more carries a game to judge him at all. I did notice on the goal line that Friedman was pulling. Antbody notice that last year?
#gmstrong
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This is one reason why its pre season.
The Browns have run him enough so say... well that looks pretty good, let's move on to areas that need work.
Which is why we can probably expect 25 carries against pittsburgh.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Something I've noticed in preseason about our line - we're built for the pass. Our lineman are quicker than they are powerful, and the run blocking holes aren't that amazing, although improved. I think we'll be passing to set up the run.
This isn't a bad thing, but I don't think we're going to be able to run if they stack 8 in the box, or even straight 7. We're going to have to stretch the field by passing and then run out of play action sets. This will play perfectly into Lewis, because he's at his best when he gets a head of steam into the hole. He's the kind of back that can give you 3 or 4 yards after contact once he gets moving.
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I can live with that,,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Something I've noticed in preseason about our line - we're built for the pass. Our lineman are quicker than they are powerful, and the run blocking holes aren't that amazing, although improved. I think we'll be passing to set up the run.
The "New Offense" is supposed to do more zone blocking and move more with the RB...at least that is what I heard. I like the idea since we can give Lewis what he needs...downfield blocks and quick Olinmen that can move out with him. The defense has to anticipate the play so they have to watch movement but if the entire Oline is moving with more zone blocking the defense will have no advantage...over pursue and Lewis cuts back for a TD. He did this to us many times remember the 250 yard games and we overplayed him to run since Dilfer or Boler were no real threat.
We drop the man blocking and work more with Lewis...this is why he came here because we improved our Oline. Thomas and Steinbach are very good and can move with the RB to get to the second level and take out the LBs.
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I agree. Hopefully, it mirrors what Denver tried to do. It'll take a lot of smarts, athleticism, and coordination, though. Not about overpowering, but being fluid and running your blocking scheme like an orchestra, instead of mauling the box.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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05 look at the Quinn posts. Everyone seems to folllow the QB but that is only half of the offense. If we can make plays on the ground then we can help Frye. The average fan expects us to find a super QB that will win games but almost all of our past success came from run/pass. We desperately need a decent ground game and I think the combination of Lewis and our Oline can make a big difference.
It may be years before we find a truly great QB but do we really need a truly great QB to win? We do need to eliminate mistakes and score inside the 20. We need WRs that can get open and a variety of offensive weapons. What we can do is use an average Frye to deliver the ball to a great Winslow or Edwards (if he improves) and allow misdirection for Lewis.
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almost all of our past success came from run/pass
Obviously you're going WAY in the past. More recently, back in '85 we had 2 thousand yard rushers. We snuck into the playoffs at 8-8 and lost 1st round.
We didn't have another thousand yard rusher for 20 years...but we played in 3 out of 4 championship games by being pass/run.
The fact is, no matter how much people might want us to be a running team, if D's are gonna load up the LOS we're gonna have to get the ball to a receiver.
The run is important, absolutely. But if a team is gonna try and take away the run, then ya gotta be able to pass them into submission. The Patriots have no fear of teams that wanna take away the run. Their attitude is "Oy yeah. Well how do ya like this?" ...and they pass ya to death.
As a matter of fact, the Colts didn't win the superbowl until after Edgerine James was gone. (coincidence I'm sure)
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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*waits for Soup to come out of nowhere*
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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The Browns have run him enough so say... well that looks pretty good, let's move on to areas that need work.
That's all well and good but in the NFL you need 2 descent running backs and 2 descent QB's and we have only one of each. 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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The Browns have run him enough so say... well that looks pretty good, let's move on to areas that need work.
That's all well and good but in the NFL you need 2 descent running backs and 2 descent QB's and we have only one of each.
Which is the decent QB.....? The one that hasn't played a down in an NFL game yet...??? Surely you don't want to go by NFL Statistics.... According to them, our best QB is Dorsey.... 
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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The problem I see DG is this...
We will NOT be able to run (Jamal Lewis or not) if we don't have a QB that can make the opposing Defense honest. This is not to say we will be using the pass to set up the run. We can run to set up the pass...but if we cannot make those passes, then improved Line and Jamal Lewis won't mean squat. Teams will beat us the same way they have since our return...They will stack the box...stop the run...put us behind...and then force us to try and throw our way back into the game....then they can just pin their earsa back and come after the QB.
We don't need a spectacular QB. We just need one that can beat the blitz and make defenses pay for stacking the box.
Don't discount the QB's role in the running game.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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the Run will be very important.. Jamal Lewis will have to stay healthy or otherwise it will be very hard to move the ball...
with Frye starting, i expect opposing teams to still stack 8 in the box... He still hasn't earned respect from other teams for his offense...
now if Quinn started, its sad to say this, but I think teams would respect his arm more and stack only 7 in the box, kind of what teams did with Romo last year... Romo was no where near good, yet teams treated him, and played him like he was a HOF..
The last two preseason games will be very important. If Frye doesnt do well, which I don't see why he wont do good, then he probably will not start, and Quinn will be thrown in to the wolves..
would he be able to handle it... YES!! our offense is SO much better than previous years...
We have a potential HOF in Jamal Lewis... a gifted athlete in Kellen Winslow... a potential "superstar" WR in Braylon Edwards... a franchise LT in newly acquired Joe Thomas... and a franchise Guard in Steinbach...
Quinn could do it b/c he has the help.. the titans didn't have many offensive threats last year when Young stepped in, yet he did well... Leinhart had offensive weapons, just not an offensive line, and he did pretty good... so im inclined to say that Quinn could be the man even if he started from day one!!
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
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Vett, we have had some decent runners but nothing lately and that is partly because of RB talent and partly because our Oline and O-cooridnator were not working together. Droughns was able to make a difference in Denver but here he looked slow. Lewis was always an offensive threat in Balt and why not here with a better Oline?
Frye has shown he can complete passes but he needs some real help. Winslow helps but does Edwards? Jerivicous can help but we really need to have a running threat to make the LBs watch for the run. The real advantage is when you have to tackle Lewis for 20-25 times you get tired and mistakes happen. The Steelers used Bettis the same way.
The Play-Acton Pass will be much more effective with Lewis than Droughns and even better with an effective Oline. If our Oline can get down field then Lewis can make a break for the endzone. Remember how it felt to see Lewis back there waiting for us to make a mistake...Boom TD.
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Teams will beat us the same way they have since our return...They will stack the box...stop the run...put us behind...and then force us to try and throw our way back into the game....then they can just pin their earsa back and come after the QB.
This has been too easy...we couldn't win with 3 out of 4 first round Dlinemen...we couldn't win with top picks at QB or probowl players. We needed a total team effort that could take advantage of other teams. I know Thomas, Steinbach and Frey can help Lewis. Tucker and maybe Bentley should be able to make some space...he came here because of our better Oline. CHudzinski is trying to create an offense that other teams can't over play...like the Steelers or Balt.
You are right the way to beat the Browns is to stop the run on first and second down and then chase the QB...with no dependable outlets Frye had to make plays. Very hard for any QB especially a new one. If we can pick up 6-8 yards then 3rd down is not as hard with a quick throw to Winslow or Cribbs. If a team forgets Lewis then they pay with a TD.
This team just needs practice and a coach that can use our talent. Above all we should use Lewis and block for him since he can make plays.
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with Frye starting, i expect opposing teams to still stack 8 in the box... He still hasn't earned respect from other teams for his offense...
now if Quinn started, its sad to say this, but I think teams would respect his arm more and stack only 7 in the box, kind of what teams did with Romo last year... Romo was no where near good, yet teams treated him, and played him like he was a HOF..
I don't think it really matters if you can establish a quick athletic Oline that can zone block for Lewis and keep the LBs from over playing the run...allow Lewis to make it past the Dline and then be quick enough to block for him downfield. Denver did this and still does. Lewis is fast enough to score on DBs and big enough to run through LBs. Think of trying to handle Thomas and Steinbach downfield with Lewis behind them.
Frye just has to get the ball to Winslow or Cribbs several times and let Lewis make just a couple of TDs and we will have a true offense that can adjust to most teams. Something we haven't had...variety other teams have to respect. Give this same team to Shannahan or Belicheck or Dungy or even Marty and we would see more points. Chudzinski will have to learn but by game four we should have some offense.
The real thing is we should be seeing more running and scoring now. Maybe Crennel is playing it slow to disguise his new weapons...If our Oline can come together we will make more noise and points will be twice a frequent.
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DG you are missing the point....I don't care if you have a probowler at every position along the OLine. If your QB cannot make defenses pay for blitzing or stacking the Line. The All Pro OLine will NOT do a thing in preventing the running game from being stopped. They can only block so many men at a time. DO NOT DISMISS THE QB's ROLE IN THE RUNNING GAME....
We could have the Cowbowys of the 90's OLine and the running game would be stuffed. The OLine is where it starts...and is one of the biggest proponants to the play succeeding or failing. Now that is on a play level. But on a scheme level. You need to keep the opposing defense from putting too many men in the box and blitzing (whether it is a run blitz or pass). And that is in the QB's hands. The OLine can't do that...in fact...the better the OLine does...the more it INVITES the defense to put more men in there....So if they invite those men....and the QB doesn't make them pay for it....then the scenario I stated becomes true...
They stack the line, they stop the run, they put us behind, and then they force us to throw and can just tee off on the QB....
Whether it is running or passing....a one dimensional team in this league goes Nowhere.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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So they start stacking eight in the box with a rubber armed QB... you know what you do? You start dumping the ball right over their pressure, and right into the hands of your TE or out to your backfield. Small little dump plays get rid of the blitz. I can guarantee you you're going to see a lot of passes to the flat this year. Winslow is going to be a key component in all of this.
As it stands right now we're an under experienced San Diego team... we have a stud Running Back and the leader of our Receiving corp is a TE... all we need are some sure handed receivers to get lost in the mix and show up catching some spectacular balls.
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You start dumping the ball right over their pressure, and right into the hands of your TE or out to your backfield.
Wouldn't that fall into the category of making a defense pay for stacking the box and/or blitzing?????
Making them pay doesn't mean we throw a 40 yd bomb. But having plays that can gain 6+ yards every time they stack the box is. It is about making the defense change. it's about not allowing the defense to force you into being one dimensional. Whether that is a dump to the TE(3-4 yards doesn't cut it), a hot read to a slant or whatever....The defense has to respect the QB whether he has a rubber arm or not....I mean look at Kosar...anyone who thought he had a cannon for an arm would be off their rocker...but he made defenses pay for stacking the line.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Something I've noticed in preseason about our line - we're built for the pass. Our lineman are quicker than they are powerful, and the run blocking holes aren't that amazing, although improved. I think we'll be passing to set up the run.
I have been saying that for a long time. The NFL is now set up as a passing league. Look at all the rule changes in support of the passing game if you need proof.
Teams with big lumbering lineman are nothing but big lumbering low scoring teams who usually lose more than they win.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Something I've noticed in preseason about our line - we're built for the pass. Our lineman are quicker than they are powerful, and the run blocking holes aren't that amazing, although improved. I think we'll be passing to set up the run.
I have been saying that for a long time. The NFL is now set up as a passing league. Look at all the rule changes in support of the passing game if you need proof.
Teams with big lumbering lineman are nothing but big lumbering low scoring teams who usually lose more than they win.
BLAME IT ON MADDEN!!! lol...
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Lewis anxious for regular season
Jeff Walcoff, Staff Writer
08.28.2007
If the preseason's primary purpose is to prepare players for the regular season, Browns running back Jamal Lewis got that preparation and then some Saturday against the Denver Broncos.
During the club's 17-16 win at Invesco Field, Lewis was handed the ball a regular-season-worthy 15 times during the first half.
In total, he notched 46 yards and a touchdown, and also caught 2 passes for 30 yards. Overall in the preseason, Lewis has rushed 26 times for 94 yards with the score, and caught 5 passes for 46 yards.
Now, after the extensive action he saw Saturday, Lewis said he's ready to get Thursday's preseason finale against Chicago over with so the club can begin preparations for the Steelers on Sept. 9.
"I feel good and I'm ready to roll," Lewis said. "You kind of get bored and tired of the preseason thing. So we just got one more to go and we have to fight through that one and get ready for the opening game."
Lewis said the team's offense has noticeably improved since the start of training camp and is beginning to click under coordinator Rob Chudzinski.
The club has notched at least 300 total yards and 16 first downs in each preseason game thus far, completing 65.8 percent of its passes.
"Offensively we moved the ball pretty well (in Denver) and got in the end zone, which is good," Lewis said. "The offensive line is playing well and we're playing well as a whole due to getting the new offense in and getting things adjusted.
"Being out here since OTAs, you can see every day things are getting better with our shifts and motions and everything (Chudzinski) is trying to put in. We're really coming together."
In the preseason so far, the Browns rank fifth in the NFL in yards per game and time of possession, and tied for second in first downs per game.
While the running game has a bit of catching up to do, ranking 23rd in the league in the three games, the club has reason to believe the run will pick up the slack, especially with guard Eric Steinbach back on the practice field.
"Everything worked out well (Saturday)," Lewis said. "There are some things I didn't do well that I want to correct, but we're moving in the right direction."
Lewis, meanwhile, is hoping to use the Browns' new offensive and its newly revamped offensive line to personally try and prove he's still the back he was for the first several years of his career as a Baltimore Raven -- perhaps even the same one that rushed for 2,000-plus yards in 2003.
But, as he has been saying since that big season four years ago, those are some lofty numbers to match. The 1,147 yards he has averaged during the five other seasons in his NFL career aren't so shabby either.
"It's kind of hard to follow up on (2,000 yards) but whatever I can get, I'm trying to turn it up and do what I can do," Lewis said. "I'm here to work hard, try to make some plays, and help improve this offense to take it to another level."
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DG you are missing the point....I don't care if you have a probowler at every position along the OLine. If your QB cannot make defenses pay for blitzing or stacking the Line. The All Pro OLine will NOT do a thing in preventing the running game from being stopped. They can only block so many men at a time. DO NOT DISMISS THE QB's ROLE IN THE RUNNING GAME....
We could have the Cowbowys of the 90's OLine and the running game would be stuffed. The OLine is where it starts...and is one of the biggest proponants to the play succeeding or failing. Now that is on a play level. But on a scheme level. You need to keep the opposing defense from putting too many men in the box and blitzing (whether it is a run blitz or pass). And that is in the QB's hands. The OLine can't do that...in fact...the better the OLine does...the more it INVITES the defense to put more men in there....So if they invite those men....and the QB doesn't make them pay for it....then the scenario I stated becomes true...
They stack the line, they stop the run, they put us behind, and then they force us to throw and can just tee off on the QB....
Whether it is running or passing....a one dimensional team in this league goes Nowhere.
Excellent post PETE,.....We are all too familiar with that scenario.
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"That's all well and good but in the NFL you need 2 descent running backs and 2 descent QB's and we have only one of each."
The RB portion is plausible...but I would make it "Covet" rather than "Need".
your outlook on NFL teams "NEEDING" 2 decent QBs - Is well one of the most erroneous mistatements of a fact that can be made. More than half the teams in the NFL are forever searching for that ONE descent QB...let alone 2 
Lets see 2 QBs... I guess so they don't lose a beat when they rest the starter for a series or two?
Again there is no team that would not Covet having 2 descent QBs but its neither necessary nor exists as a pattern in the NFL.
JMHO - I usually just ignore you - but this was just such a error in reporting something as a fact I couldn't let it go unattended. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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DG you are missing the point....I don't care if you have a probowler at every position along the OLine. If your QB cannot make defenses pay for blitzing or stacking the Line. The All Pro OLine will NOT do a thing in preventing the running game from being stopped. They can only block so many men at a time. DO NOT DISMISS THE QB's ROLE IN THE RUNNING GAME....
We could have the Cowbowys of the 90's OLine and the running game would be stuffed. The OLine is where it starts...and is one of the biggest proponants to the play succeeding or failing. Now that is on a play level. But on a scheme level. You need to keep the opposing defense from putting too many men in the box and blitzing (whether it is a run blitz or pass). And that is in the QB's hands. The OLine can't do that...in fact...the better the OLine does...the more it INVITES the defense to put more men in there....So if they invite those men....and the QB doesn't make them pay for it....then the scenario I stated becomes true...
They stack the line, they stop the run, they put us behind, and then they force us to throw and can just tee off on the QB....
Whether it is running or passing....a one dimensional team in this league goes Nowhere.
Your not going to be an NFL QB if you can't make them pay.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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In the preseason so far, the Browns rank fifth in the NFL in yards per game and time of possession, and tied for second in first downs per game.
I know it's only pre-season, but....
HOLY CRAP! 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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They can only block so many men at a time. DO NOT DISMISS THE QBs ROLE IN THE RUNNING GAME....
I am not dismissing the QBs role just saying we have the ability to do just what you said with our QBs. WIth Carthon we had to make the play work or else. Now Chudzinski can see the advantages of movement and getting the ball to our TE. I do believe that Frye can make the appropriate play.
If what you said is true then we should have been able to stop Lewis with 8 man playing up...but no he still killed us. Look at all of the Balt games and Lewis still got his yards eventually. We would stop him for 10 or 12 plays and them he would break back against our over playing defense and there was nobody there...I clearly remember Bentley (LB) trying to make a desperation tackle and watching Lewis score. Balt never had a QB to brag about.
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I feel good and I'm ready to roll," Lewis said. "You kind of get bored and tired of the preseason thing. So we just got one more to go and we have to fight through that one and get ready for the opening game."
Lewis said the team's offense has noticeably improved since the start of training camp and is beginning to click under coordinator Rob Chudzinski.
The combination of new talent for both the coaching and playing will make a difference...this is what we have been asking for haven't we? QBs get all of the attention but there must be balance.
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Making them pay doesn't mean we throw a 40 yd bomb. But having plays that can gain 6+ yards every time they stack the box is. It is about making the defense change. it's about not allowing the defense to force you into being one dimensional.
This sounds like our new plan. Get Frye enough experience and give him some help so we can have a game plan. When did any team really have to worry about our running and TEs or the posibility of quick WRs? We usually killed our chances with poor coaching and bad impossible game plans.
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but being fluid and running your blocking scheme like an orchestra,
nice analogy.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246 |
Oh I was slightly tired when I made the post... I believe I thought that I was reading that you need a good QB in order to execute in order to make the Defense pay. And that we'll still be a one dimensional O this year. Due to Defenses still not respecting Charlie because they believe that Charlie can't burn their D. But the truth of the matter is that the throws on dump plays are throws any quarterback should be able to make with no problem.
Last edited by The Collector; 08/28/07 06:16 PM.
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