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So theres really no reason for ST to be historically bad

No. It is so bad that it almost has to be a conscious choice/effort.
Literally. For real.

Hue Jackson says he doesn't feel he needs to make a change at coach with special teams. "I think I need to use my experience, go over there and help"

How could you not feels this needs attention? What rationale explains it? Somebody has to carry that albatross.

Wake Hue up. Dorsey to the rescue

Why would it have taken until now to "go over there and help" ... and at that point, aren't you just admitting the STs coach sucks

I'm not a Hue hater and don't want to make this about him.

But let's face the fact: our STs have been abhorrent, even for our standards.

j/c:

For the past few years, fans were demanding that Tabor be fired from his special teams coaching position. They called him Teflon Tabor. I warned people that firing Tabor probably would not fix the unit.

My reasoning was that the previous FO did not value players who performed well on special teams. Guys who had performed well on those units were either cut or traded for next to nothing. Stiffs like Ricardo Louis were kept to take over.

I suppose this won't stop folks from wanting the coach fired and then from transposing the unit's problems onto the HC, but I think personnel is the problem.

I will add that such a view is not real popular w/a group of people that just revel in having coaches fired.

Hue has consistently said he's been in all the units meetings.

Interesting. Not one person mentioned these names:

Gregg Williams
Bob Wylie
Al Saunders
Ken Zampese
Todd Haley

Apparently, playing fair is not part of the equation.

Hue Jackson press conference - 10/3

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/hue-jackson-press-conference-10-3

On considering RB Duke Johnson Jr. as a returner:

“I will consider anything if I think it is going to make us better. I think that we are looking at everything. Did some things today. Worked through things. I think that we are going to do everything that we can to get the offense, defense and special teams better.”

On if he has to ‘dig in’ more with the special teams:

“I am going to dig in everywhere. I just am. As the head coach, I have that opportunity to do that so that is what I am going to do.”


On DB Jabrill Peppers returning to form on defense and as a returner:

“He will. There is no question in my mind that he will get there. I think that he got a little dinged in the game last week, and that is what took him out of a lot of the plays last week. I think after the punt-catch where the guy ran into him, it kind of took him out of the game. He was down for quite a while. He was only there for an emergency situation. I think that is what that is. I think that Jabrill did some good things. He has to continue to improve. We have played one quarter of the season. We have a lot of football left to play. I think he is going to have a huge impact once it is all said and done.”

On the Browns’ play on special teams:

“We have to get better. Do not have to talk about it more than that. We have to get better.”

On his comment about considering anything possible to improve the team:


“That is what I am doing.”

On if he would consider making a coaching change on special teams:

“No. I do not think I need to do that. I think I need to take my experience that I have had and use it and go over there and help as I can, get other coaches on the staff and help and see if we can get better.”

On if players have to be coached on being more careful on return situations to avoid penalties:

“I do not think the word is careful. I think just doing the fundamental things and not making an understanding what is going to cause a penalty. Sometimes, I am being very honest with you, maybe those are not penalties that are laid on – the flag is on the ground – and sometimes they are. We have to do the fundamental part of it better, get our hands in the right spots and get our bodies in the right spot so that we do not come close to have a chance to getting a call in those situations.”


On how he plans to improve special teams:

“That is my job. I have been in every meeting from special teams to defense to offense. My focus is on cleaning up the things that we need to clean up and get better at. It starts with me, down to our assistant coaches and that is what we are going to do. We are going to get it better.”

On if special teams coaching intern Josh Cribbs can help the unit improve:

“He is. He is doing his part. I think Josh has got to play his part, and I think he has done that. We just got to continue to get better.”

On if the Browns can ‘shake up’ personnel on special teams:


“We shake it. We can shake it up. There might be some things you see different this weekend. I can’t give all of those secrets away today, but we are going to do what we think we need to do to get better.”

On considering adding a return specialist to the roster:

“(General Manager) John (Dorsey) is always searching, always looking to make the football team better. I am very confident in that.”

Was that the entire PC? Or, just a segment of it?

I just pulled out the the quotes related to special teams.

Thanks. I was hoping that our media isn't that bad.

I don't get why anyone would want to fire the ST coach at this point. Who are we going to find on the street who is better? The time to fire/hire coaches is after the season.

Btw--------did anyone dare ask about if we are addressing the issue of committing 4 turnovers? I think that was a much bigger issue than the play of our special teams in regards to winning and losing that particular game.

Btw----I am not saying that is the only reason we lost, but other than the two late judgement calls by the officials, turning the ball over 4 times was a killer.

Get other coaches to help? I mean, seriously? They have their own bit of work to do, especially Todd and Gregg because we need a solid game plan on both ends if we're going to just AVOID getting blown out in Baltimore... but make them help in STs too?

I'm sorry. but seriously? If you can't rely on Amos to handle it, and can't rely on yourself thrown in to handle it - we need a new coach. One that CAN handle it, either by helping or firing the dude and getting someone who can get our ST unit executing.

I'm glad I don't listen to pressers. Hue is getting absurd.

Well, I think for the most part he's just quelling the talk of replacing the coach by saying we'll use the resources we have in-house. "Help" could mean advice... or other coaches simply making clear to players that their special team duties are as, or more, important than their duties on offense or defense.

"Coach, when do you think I might be blah, blah, blah..."

"Maybe after we get things cleaned up on special teams. We can't win games by giving away field position all day. You really need to let your experience be an example over there."

After weeks of horrible ST play, even mroe if you want to factor preseason games, I think it's beyond a little two minute advice talk in the hallways. Sounds like someone is needing to be taken away from their duties to get more hands on, and if that's Hue then okay. If that's Todd and or Gregg, I see a problem. The fact that Hue feels the need of help all of sudden after this long display of horrible ST is also a problem. He should've been on that after the first two preseason games and surely after game one.

I do not disagree with that. Put out the long snapper and the kicker and the best athletes we have and they would figure it out faster.

STs is about scheme... then it's about desire and athleticism..

If you make the assumption that desire and athleticism are roughly the same across the league.. that only leaves one thing left to blame.

Can you pinpoint the scheme issues for us, please?

Josh Cribbs.

There has to be one coach in Ohio that can help our special teams.

I don’t care if you are a zip, buckeye, or bobcat. The state of Ohio should be able to produce functional special teams. If heads aren’t already rolling, we won’t win.

The way I see it, special teams has far fewer plays a game than the offense or the defense. And on all those plays, we sucked. We had four turnovers on offense. Otherwise, they played well. The Special Teams seems to suck on every single play they get.

I was all about firing Teflon Tabor. But when I saw the guy we replaced him with (and how his special teams ranked in Arizona), this was one of my biggest fears and predictors. We replaced a bad coach with an even worse coach.

I like Hue Jackson. Hiring this dude made no sense to me though. I wish we paid whatever we had to in order to get Brad Seely on this team again. I guarantee you a Brad Seely coached Special Teams would be better than the garbage we see now.

You can say it's the players, but the coach surely isn't helping.


At this point though, there's no point in firing Amos whateverhisnameis. There's no one behind him capable of replacing him as far as I know. Instead we're stuck riding it out and hiring a new one next season. Hopefully just him, as I like the way this team is headed with the rest of our coaching staff

I think this will actually make or break Hue Jackson, he has to take control.

j/c:

I'm still waiting for someone to point to specific schematical issues.

I know quite a bit about the schemes for special teams. They are not complex. They are not very diverse. They are pretty straight-forward.

I think the issues w/the special teams is due to having too many players who aren't very good on special teams.

I wonder if we got a GOOD returner for KO's/Punts if that would cure a lot of the ills (penalties, field position, etc)

Special teams gaffs could cost Browns coach Hue Jackson his job if they aren't corrected

https://www.news-herald.com/sports/brown...ff5c407aa1.html



It would ironic, if, after finally having a legitimate quarterback, inept special teams ended up costing Hue Jackson his job.

The Browns are 1-2-1 as they get ready to host the Baltimore Ravens on Oct. 7. No one would be talking about Jackson’s job security if the kicking and punting units were merely adequate because if they were, the Browns would be 3-1 at worst, but that isn’t the case.

A blocked field goal attempt with 16 seconds left in overtime meant the Browns had to settle for a 21-21 tie with the Steelers. Zane Gonzalez’s kick might have been low, but the bigger issue was protection broke down when the Steelers overwhelmed Joel Bitonio with three rushers.

Gonzalez missed two field goals and two PATs in a 21-18 loss to the Saints.

Rookie Nick Chubb missing his assignment allowed the Jets to block a punt by Britton Colquitt. The Browns survived that gaff, thanks to a rally inspired by rookie quarterback Baker Mayfield, and won, 21-17.

No kicks were blocked in Oakland last week, but check out these numbers:

The Raiders punted six times. Antonio Callaway and Jabrill Peppers combined for two returns of 10 yards.

Colquitt punted seven times. Dwayne Harris returned five punts 98 yards. A 49-yard return set up a Raiders’ touchdown. A 14-yard return to the Oakland 47 set up the touchdown that forced overtime.

Despite all the issues, special teams coordinator Amos Jones is trying to stay upbeat and get his players to play better fundamentally.

“Each week, guys get a little bit more acclimated to the attention to detail because that’s what happens in the season,” Jones said on Oct. 5. “Things go on, and everything is always copycatted in this league in terms of if you are on tape for something bad, you’re going to probably rep it a little extra. Attention to detail.”

Jones is in his first season as Browns special teams coordinator, but he is not new to the job. He held the same position with the Arizona Cardinals the last five years.

The Cardinals’ special teams were abysmal last year. They ranked 29th defensively in punt return average and 22nd in punt return average offensively.

The problem here isn’t that opposing punt returners are breaking tackles. They are running freely because players on coverage are being blocked, thus opening lanes for returners. That is a coaching problem.

“Our special teams unit has not been good enough all year,” Jackson said. “We have to cover better. We have guys going down there taking shots at the returners, and we are not close.”


Denzel Rice, a defensive back, made the 53-man roster because of special teams. Rice is a gunner on punt coverage, meaning he lines up outside and is one of the first players downfield. He wears No. 37. Watch him today. Unless he has improved, or unless he has been replaced, he will zoom down the field and go on zooming – right past Ravens punt returner Tim White.

The Browns rank 31st in average starting position (22.1 yards) after receiving a kick because Jabrill Peppers unwisely runs the ball out of the end zone too often. They rank 28th in kick coverage at 26.1 yards.

Rookie Greg Joseph has been on the job two weeks and hasn’t missed a kick. That’s about the only positive for the Browns on special teams.

Jackson says he has no plans to replace Amos Jones. He might want to reconsider if the special teams blunders continue. Otherwise Jackson could be the one being replaced.

Plus, as we've mentioned, Hue was a ST coach!!

Honestly, this area has to improve ASAP or else it will cost him

j/c:

It never ceases to amaze me that people actually want guys fired.

And I am still waiting for one of you to explain to me how the Browns are poor schematically.

We both know that explanation will never come.

Special Win!

Big win. Gotta get those penalty under control. Somr big drops too.

Unimpressed with ST execution and discipline...still.

Great team win, the guys deserved it. A lot of work to be done, always working to be better. On to the next.

https://twitter.com/greg_joseph1/status/1049065995371986945

Probably because most of us have no idea about any special teams schemes.

But I do know that our special teams seems to be unorganized, undisciplined, unmotivated, inconsistent, etc.

That's got nothing to do with scheme. I imagine a lot has to do with coaching.


Is it a coincidence that this ST coach had the worst special teams in Arizona and then he comes here and we're worse than our poor special teams we've had in the past? I don't think so. I don't think knowledge of special teams schemes is really needed to recognize that pattern

You should read the thread before you blast Pit and myself.

I think I missed the context of "one of you" as in you meant a specific poster (which I read last night).

If that's the case, gotcha.



But I did notice last night that you didn't like how people called Teflon Tabor "Teflon". I still say it was justified. And I might have even been the one that came up with that nickname.. So many people were fired, and that guy always kept his job. And we always had special teams breakdowns.

Maybe I hold them to too high of a standard because I liked the discipline Mangini's teams had (especially on ST with guys like Ventrone and Blake Constanza). Maybe the ST has fallen off a bit with Cribbs leaving and even Bademosi.

But I do think we should be better than this garbage we're seeing. I'm ready to try out a new kicker again. This guy Joseph came through in the biggest moment, but just barely. I've kicked a 35 yarder that looked like that kick after an afternoon of beers (and probably a Browns Beating) about 7 years ago at the local bar.

There's 32 kicking spots in the NFL. There's gotta be someone that can kick a better looking ball than what this Joseph guy is bringing. Clearly, we never should have cut Cody Parkey in favor of Gonzalez.

Petey...........DC made a post where he blamed the scheme for our special team's woes. That is what Pit and I were referring to.

We just won our second game of the season and our special teams outperformed Baltimore's. How about you lighten up and enjoy the victory?

Oh. I'm enjoying the victory, no doubt. Our special teams did very little except for Denzel Ward's awesome block.

Denzel should be DROY IMO. I have really become surprised as to how good he was. I mean, he's really really good. Top 10 corner in the NFL. His closing speed is awesome. I've got nothing but great things to say about that guy. I figured we go Chubb and if not Chubb I wanted Minkah. I was wrong. I love Denzel Ward.

But the Kicker. I've got no faith in the dude. And we still had penalties on special teams again. It's like every single week we get that garbage. He missed an extra point and damn near made me throw a fit until that low kick made it through the uprights.

I'm ecstatic we won. We need a new kicker. The Special Teams needs to continue to improve though. That's the weak point of our team. And it's a glaring weakness



EDIT: As for the DC thing, I saw that. That's what I realized you meant before in my last post. When you wrote "One of you" I thought you meant all of us. Clearly you meant, one of us individually

And the effort seems to be ongoing. I would expect some improvements by now.
Or maybe to have settled on a serviceable kicker.
Ahem.

I'd like to keep Cribbs as an assistant. I don't think we can just hire him to be our Special Teams Coordinator



That being said. End of the season, the broom sweeps clean. Amos Jones, "See ya!" like a Michael Kay call on an Aaron Judge homer.

As for the rest of the staff. I hope they all stay in place so far. I like Hue. And I think Haley, while sometimes frustrating, is getting this offense headed in the right direction. And Gregg Williams' defense is so much better than last year.

Most importantly, I love John Dorsey. I mean, Baker Mayfield and Denzel Ward. Perfect selections. I love both those guys and hope they're both cornerstones on this team for a long time. I had no idea how good Denzel was. And damn, he's really good

Between 2 poor special teams Sunday, I’d put Vegas over under missed fg’s and pat’s, I’d say 3.5

Execute the fundamentals, invest in those