DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jamie Collins

I watched him closely yesterday because there has been a certain amount of discrepancy in regards to how well he has been playing.

I thought he was absolutely awful yesterday. Here are a few examples.

There were times when he was the primary guy to set the edge. He generally rushed up the field and did not use his outside/in technique. He was easily sealed and the Charger RBs and WRs had a clear path to the sideline.

Other times, another player was asked to set the edge and his responsibility was to stay in his lane and defend the cutback lane on the inside/outside zone blocking schemes. He was almost always late and was blocked by guys who were not even offensive linemen.

He looked extremely slow and extremely lazy yesterday. I was hoping we would sub him out, but who was going to take his place?

The sad thing is that our previous regime not only gave up a draft pick for this guy, but they gave him a deal worth $50 million w/$26.5 million guaranteed.


That contract made him the 4th highest paid linebacker in the NFL when he signed that deal, trailing only Von Miller, Justin Houston, and Clay Matthews.

He even got a $100,000 "workout bonus." Additionally, his 2017 and 2018 salary was fully guaranteed.

His 2019 and 2020 contract is not guaranteed and given his performance, I fully suspect for Dorsey to move on from Collins next year. Not sure if we will trade him or release him. What I do know is this cat is not earning his keep.

There is and there will always be a perception problem in highlight players.

Now, I like stable, disciplined, concentrated and reliable D players. Never liked loose guns that play for big hits and highlights, that's why I never liked Collins that much.

Vers, I also have been paying attention to our Lb's, and honestly I think the problem is almost general, Schobert also has plays where he is completely lost, out of position, surprised by the snap, etc...

Randall appears to be the most reliable player in the middle of the field. Its just my impression, and I bet like always people are going to come after me, but for the record, I never liked Collins that much...

Works for me ... billy let him go for basically nothing during a SB run for a reason ...

Don’t the door hit u in the butt Mr. Collins ... i for one won’t miss u even a little ....

I always wonder how younger guys on the D are affected when they see a highly-paid vet being lazy?

Thanks for the breakdown. I'm not a football X and O guy (trying to learn each game through you guys) ... but from my naked eye, he wasn't good.

Good point about the younger guys seeing a vet play/try poorly as well.

I think our linebacking core is over rated. Collins has been trash. Schobert isn’t physical enough. I like his hustle but I think he’s replaceable. Kirksey is our best and he disappears too much for my taste. That said he’s the last of the three I’d replace.
My hope is Dorsey drafts us a thumper to play in the middle, and another more instictive athletic LB to replace Collins.

we really need a thumper in the middle, someone that can get downhill, shed blocks etc..

we desperately need our own Shazier, Burfict, Mosley, etc

I think Schobert is pretty good. He does a very good job in coverage. He is getting to the point where he is diagnosing passing plays and he gets his hands on a lot of passes. I think we are going to miss him if he misses time w/the hammy.

Based off what Dorsey did with Gordon he ain’t playin ... if we had any other options me thinks he’d be gone all ready ....

I agree.

The days where a MLB is a "thumper" are passing, if not passed. The NFL is more and more a passing league, and the MLB is vital in pass coverage.

I have said that I think that both Kirksey and Collins are overrated, and should be replaced. They played well last week, as did Peppers, but all then regressed to the norm this week. I also don't know what has happened to Ogbah. Man, we can't have 4 main guys on defense getting worse as the season progresses.

Yeah, Ogbah really struggled yesterday. He looks slower.

Btw---I just watched a Melvin Gordon highlight video on YouTube. I yi yi yi...it was bad. It's pretty easy to see what I was talking about w/Collins if anyone wants to watch it.

there were some runs to the outside where we didn't TOUCH Gordon/Allen/Ekeler. Literally.

Yeah, it's bad.

On a reverse yesterday, Rivers dominated him on a block.

Aren't you the one that always tries to point out that that's how NFL contract go? That they will always increase because that's how the league is structured. You know, kinda like the Landy contract?

That aside, I think Collins has had an up and down season. He played extremely well last week and struggled this week. I haven't looked at this game but don't think it is entirely true the the Chargers ran at him all game. In fact, I recall a few where he went side to side to make a tackle. I do think he tends to give up on plays if he thinks he has no shot at making a tackle and that is not a good thing. I also think Greggggg has him playing a role that will not show up in the stat sheet. In fact, I think he has said that outright. What that is exactly, I don't know.



Many NFL players get these. It's how teams can break up cap space. So.....

collins, ogbah, and garrett had crap games yesterday.

collins especially can get traded right now, and i'd be happy.

Ogbah and Garrett had tough times setting the edge. That's how Gordon went to town on us.

Jamie Collins has been very bad. He is basically unplayable but he’s on the field most of the time on defense (and we’ll only see more of him if Schubert is out). No one would trade for him at this point. He can be cut at a huge savings this off-season.

is

maybe it was just me, but we were better with Ogbah out of the lineup

They did. However, there were many plays where Collins or Kirksy, or a DB were asked to set the edge.

Furthermore, I never said that LA ran at Collins every time. I said they ran at him a lot.

This video does not include the many reverses LA ran or the runs from Eleker, but it does show Gordon's run. Y'all can judge for yourselves as to what Memphis and I are debating.

I think part of our problem with our run D is that we miss Shelton. A lot of the time he would tie up 2 blockers and it would allow our LBs to run free to make the play now it seems as though the opposing OG or C is getting through and getting a body on our LBs. Also it looks like we are doing a lot of diving at the RB with a shoulder instead of wrapping him up.

Our run defense was fine before yesterday. The Chargers attacked specific parts of our defense and killed us. They literally ran the same plays over and over and we couldn’t stop them. Now that a flaw has been exposed, hopefully we can fix it.

the one play in particular was very creative ... they faked the off tackle to the right towards a bunch formation ... it attracted 9 of our 11 defenders, and they ran an end around the other way towards Garrett (and ran off Ward with the WR)

Just nobody home

I think a lot of Collins' problem is that he doesn't fully trust the knee he injured last season. I think physically it's good to go, but I think that he thinks about it too much and as a result slightly shies away from contact at times. When he does make contact, he still worries about torquing the MCL. Not sure if the protecting the QB focus by refs played into getting blocked by Rivers or not.

When he doesn't think about the knee he can still make plays.

I agree he is under-performing with regards to his contract right now.

I think another part of our run D problem is that we are too aggressive at times. We need to be aggressive and smart. Our angles are underwhelming and we don't break down to wrap up enough.

Also, I love Myles, but it's almost like he is too explosive at times. He moves so much further faster than the defender inside of him that a gap opens. In running situations his burst can sometimes work against him.

j/c:

I want to clarify something. I hope it didn't come across as me blaming all of our defensive woes on Collins. That would be moronic. We had issues all over the place.

I did focus on him yesterday because there has been a wide range of opinions on how he is playing. I also think the dude has tremendous physical talent and he could really be a force for us. I do question his effort. He simply gives up on too many plays and doesn't consistently try to fight through blocks.

Really?

We gave up 159 yds to Pitt. who is averaging 74.6 yds a game in all their other games.

We gave up 139 to Oakland who is averaging 83 yds a a game in all their other games.

How can you be so on target with that observation but be so off base with your evaluation of Baker ?

Was kind of hoping I imagined that.

Collin's biography is going to be titled, "A Rivers Runs Through It".

For the most part, I've always defended Collins.

After yesterday, I can't do that anymore. Lack of effort is 'contagious', and we will never be great with guys who don't give 110% effort.

Please so me some videos or statistical insights that our Pro Bowl Lb is out of position and lost. . .. you wont, as you never do. You make up junk left and right, and then hide when called on it.

I agree with you, that Collins has been the biggest let down of recent memory.

I remember when we traded for him, my brother was ecstatic. I said to him, "there is a reason BB traded him". And sure enough.

Agreed. How anyone can say he is "lost" is beyond me. In fact, its pure rubbish.

Collins didn't "do his job" in too many instances this game.....and like Landry said its contagious.

If you have contain. YOU have Contain!
You can't peak inside and try to make a tackle and in the process give up CONTAIN!

That must make Gregg lose his mind.

But then again you have Collins making difference making positive plays in other games.

He's too inconsistent with his discipline for how much he's paid.

Time for him to have a bounce back game.

Is Cleveland Browns linebacker Jamie Collins giving his best every play? Doug Lesmerises

Updated 7:29 PM; Posted 7:29 PM


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- New Browns coach Gregg Williams said the search for effort and focus is a full-time time occupation, not a Sunday situation.

"We really do that day by day by day," Williams said after losing his debut as the Browns boss 37-21 to Kansas City on Sunday.

"Seriously, it is not just in the game, (it's) every day in how you respond in a meeting, how you respond in practice. The philosophy that we have had and the philosophy that I have been raised with in this league being around some really, really good coaches on the staffs that I have been on is that is an everyday thing.

"You do not want to wait until Sunday and see it. You want to see it throughout the week. That is what they have been doing all week long."

OK. So why does linebacker Jamie Collins so often look like he's not going as hard as he can?

This is one of those things that Browns fans are talking about, and the goal here, whenever possible, is to take what's happening out there and bring it to the Browns. If fans think Collins looks like he's jogging to too many plays, then, what's the deal with Collins looking like he's jogging to too many plays?

My direct question to Williams on Sunday was whether Collins was going as hard as he could.

"Jamie is doing a lot of things," Williams said. "Jamie is handling a lot of things for us. He is being the vocal person on the field. He is the quarterback on defense, and he is playing like our quarterback."

That's not really an answer about effort, but I wasn't going to ask Williams repeatedly to publicly criticize a player in his first postgame news conference as the boss. So I asked once and then made it clear to the Browns that if anyone wanted to inform me otherwise about Collins, my ears were open, because I was going to question his every-down effort.

So here we are.

It seems like Williams likes Collins. He was the first player he mentioned by name after the game, turning a question about the rash of defensive injuries back toward the veteran linebacker. With Joe Schobert out for his third game, and Christian Kirksey leaving in the second quarter with a hamstring injury, Collins took on the role of what Williams called the quarterback of the defense, setting the defensive alignment.

"We have to tackle better, have to keep the ball in front of us better and have to keep on playing. Those guys did. They never blinked," Williams said. "I thought Jamie Collins did a really good job of continuing to keep people in the game that had to come in and out of the huddles. He did a really good job with that."

I thought Collins looked overmatched and underwhelming on a first-quarter tackle attempt on Kansas City running back Kareem Hunt. Collins reached Hunt around the 35-yard line and was left flailing at Hunt's wrist. Hunt continued to race to the end zone, turning a screen into a 50-yard touchdown.




So Williams is publicly praising Collins, no one from the Browns privately disputed that, and he led the Browns in tackles with seven.

So why be critical of Collins, who according to spotrac.com, the website that tracks professional sports contracts, is the sixth-highest paid linebacker in the league on his deal averaging $12.5 million per year?

It's hard to believe your eyes are lying.

Get on Twitter and type in Jamie Collins. Everyone with a TV saw a guy who looked like he was giving half-effort at best. The plan was to ask Collins about this, but he was gone before reporters were allowed in the postgame locker room, leaving behind in his locker two plastic cups filled with pineapple pieces, a plastic white fork sticking out of one tropical cube.

Collins seems to have a habit, one that didn't just show up Sunday, of what I'm going to call "backgrounding." It's what happens when you don't get close enough to a play to get posterized -- which is what everyone calls it in basketball when a defender has a dunk or great offensive play made right on his head.

Collins usually doesn't get posterized. You have to throw yourself into the play for that to happen.

Too often, he doesn't get close enough to the play to get into focus for the poster.

He's just close enough to be in the background. He's there as another Browns defender gets posterized.

Watch this perfect touchdown throw from Patrick Mahomes to tight end Travis Kelce, who catches it over Browns safety Jabrill Peppers. Peppers is responsible for the coverage, and he plays it pretty well, beaten by two elite offensive players. There, floating in the middle of the field, turning to watch Kelce make the grab without making any kind of play on the ball, without jumping to try to tip the pass or make a hit to jar the ball loose, is No. 51.

Peppers, who tried, got posterized. Collins got backgrounded.



Maybe there was nothing Collins could do there. Floating in coverage in the middle of the field, he couldn't be everywhere at once.

But Collins seems to float a lot. He wasn't quite there on Hunt's 1-yard run at the goal line, floating in the middle just enough to be easily blocked by a tight end as Hunt scored.



I watched Collins exclusively for about three-quarters of the game Sunday, and his plan often seems to be to get in the area of a play but hope someone else makes the tackle. If that doesn't happen, or the ball carrier cuts right into him, he'll grab him.

But, at $12.5 million, he doesn't seem to mind letting someone else make a play.

Williams didn't complain about Collins. The pineapple couldn't speak on Collins behalf. This column would be harsher if Collins had been able to say his peace.

But Williams, who demands effort from his players from the moment the alarm clock goes off, has seven more games in charge here. The Browns have a future and a plan. On Sunday, they had a new quarterback on defense that a lot of people thought was phoning it in.

Williams said he looks for effort day by day. You wonder how he could have seen it from the linebacker running the defense Sunday.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/11/why_does_cleveland_browns_line.html

Interesting article. Thanks. I agree, at times he seems either lazy or going through the motions.

He slowed up to let the corner tackle the rb. The lack of effort was alarming.

He's gone EOY with GW.