DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns: It’s time for Hue Jackson to go nuclear on officials

The thing is humans will always make mistakes.

We have cameras. Very good cameras. We can see every angle of every play. There's no reason we can't have 2 refs sitting in a booth (like the centralized new york one) watching and reviewing every play.

They'd easily have spotted the false start and most other plays.

Almost everything should be challengable, including penalties. I mean why not?

only argument I ever hear is it slows the game down but it won't because:
1) 2 extra Refs will be watching game on monitors already so need less challenges.
2) You're still limited to 2 challenges. If you're getting challenge after challenge right then who cares if the game needs to be slowed a few minutes, goto commercial

I don't really want refs in a booth watching every play on video.

Because probably every single play has fouls.

Every play would be a flag. There's too many flags as it is.

I just want them to stop the major screw ups. Every play/flag should be reviewable/challengable though.

Part of my gripe its refs getting real obvious in the 4th quarter. I think what you suggest is doable. We have automatic review for scores and turnovers. Flags could be checked or graded after a game. I would like to hear how you might address the no-call like offsides. Holding and such can be called every play. The new targeting rules and QB sack priority are about impossible to for refs. How closely a game is called and when the refs get busy tossing flags is part of what ruins a game for me as a viewer. But there needs to be some blowback for a lousy job. To be fair, these guys are not a dime a dozen, and good ones are even rarer.
I would not want the job, nor could I do it this well on the field. But we are manipulating play and influencing outcomes. It can be better handled and that can be better for the Game.

He can't do that.

As for film, I am sure we send in all the calls we think bad. It hasn't done any good to this point.

My solution would be to go from 7 officials in a game down to 4-5. To me you could eliminate the umpire and one of the back judges.

Maybe limit what kind of penalties each could call. Maybe limit from where they can throw a flag....like throwing a flag on their side of the field when the play is opposite. Naturally personal fouls could be called by any, at any time.

Your correct on the film ... every team sends them in every week .... every team does it ...

No way should u put less eyes on an nfl football game ... thats ludicrous .... your talking about something u know zero about .... that would be crazy and only make things even worse ...

U have any idea how big an nfl field actually is .... when your down on one ... there HUGE .. lots and lots of green to cover ..... u go to for or 5 refs that 8 to 10 eyes ... that just silly Mr. Peen ... just silliness my friend ....

I think too much is being made of the officiating. It's a fast game played by fast players who are making contact w/one another on each and every play. Mistakes are going to happen due to the speed and nature of the game.

Human error is part of the game. Just like dropping passes, throwing inaccurate passes, fumbling the ball, making incorrect reads, taking poor angles, etc...

That's true, but Tomlin did rip the refs and receive a fine as well ....

Hue is just not that type of guy. He wont do it publicly. Some like that, some don't like that. Its just a personality type of thing, and no one will be pleased.

You know I am not a Hue fan, but I will admit either way he goes with this - to stay silent, or get irate with the refs publicly, will suffice either way for me. If he choses not too I understand why, and if he choses to do so, I understand why.

No. One there are too many stopages in a game as is. Now you want to add 10-15 more easily. As Eve said, there is holding on every single play. there is illegal contact on every single play. I don't care if a ref is not going to call these or if he is going to call them, my only issue with the refs are BEING CONSISTANT.

The only thing consistent about them, is they always call it against us when it matters.

As far as bad call against the Browns go, I offer this...…

The Steelers run 2-4 illegal pick plays a game. Their game winning play against the Bengals was as blatant a pick that I have seen. It was not called.

Todd Haley comes to the Browns, He has said plays in his repertoire and tried them throughout the preseason. There was a penalty called every time.

They were rarely called a penalty in Pittsburg, for Cleveland it is penalized every time. That is one small example of the bias the referees have against the Cleveland Browns.

For years the bias has been obvious, that can not be denied. Yes all teams have to put up with a bad call here or there, but Cleveland gets the short end of the stick too often. And it seems the calls that go against the Browns are always at key moments of the game. These calls result in prolonged drives for the opponent that lead to points and drive killing calls that lead the Browns to punt.

Maybe. I don't think anybody feels that not enough penalties are being called. I myself would like to see fewer. You'd still have enough oversight IMO.

Whether the league has its own grades or not, there is no reason for PFF to NOT do this. Furthermore, I'm sure that every fan base feels they are regularly victimized by the refs; this would allow for an easy statistical comparison of teams, but it would also allow the viewing public to get to know the reputation of the various crews. With only the league doing it - and not publishing any of that data - it is a black box action. We're simply told it happens.

Shining a bright external light on them cannot be anything but good.

Maybe Hue can have his daughter put out some ref bashing tweets?

A few things ...

- the officials are graded by their supervisors who are all ex refs ... the supervisors report to the head of officials ... the head of officials is also an ex nfl ref .... he reports to the league ...

- the officials are given a game tape before they leave the stadium of every play ... its broken down even further for the action in their oficiating area for every play ... there’s many different angles for each play ..

- They write a report critiquing themselves and on Tuesday they go over the tape with their supervisor ... they used to get their grades then but it appears according to the article thats changed ...

They are held accountable ... very accountable ... the turnovers much higher than you’d expect ...

PFF has a good relationship with the NFL ... they want to keep it that way ... PFF grading the officials would be akin to a direct attack on the nfl ....

Biting the hand that feeds u is prolly not a good idea when that hand is the NFL ...

Not a good idea for them to do that ...

Almost as stupid as disgracing the refs in public ... its just not smart on many levels ...

Why not?

And i disagree ...

These officials are human being doing there best ... there trying there hardest and most take their craft seriously ....

Its not right to emberass them in public cause they made a mistake ...

What does it accomplish? ... bad officials are dealt with for the most part ... ya’all don’t wanna hear about two of the instances there not ... the third one is some of the older guys are being allowed to retire at their own pace ...

The nfl has lost a lot of really good “younger” officials at a bad time ... it started 3 or 4 years ago when Carey retired .. he was prolly the best official and he was very young to retire ... then last year they lost hocculi and staratore and two others that were not young but not the oldest guys ...

U have Walt Anderson and coleman and a few others that are past their prime and should have retired before Carey and hocculi and the rest of them ... but it didn’t work out that way ...

Couple that with the fact that over the last 5 - 7 years they’ve cut alt of officials that weren’t up to snuff and u have a lot of young white hats and a lot of inexperienced folks all over the field ... its a bad combo to say the least ...

Some of the problems we had were with Anderson ... not his crew but him ... he should have retired a year or two ago ... he will retire after this year ... book it ... he may get a farewell playoff game even though he don’t deserve it ...

There’s also gonna be an issue with umpires in the NFL in the next 3 - 5 years .... u have lots of older umpires whose bodies are breaking down and don’t fit the mold of the new umpire now that there hardly ever 5 yard behind the DL in the middle fo the field ..

Its bad now ... and there headed for an even rougher patch ...

I dont see the need to emberass them in public by having guys that have no clue what the officials responsibilities are grading them and publishing them for all to see .... especially when it accomplishes NOTHING ..

Yet, we have no qualms about doing exactly this with the players, coaches, and owners.

What is the difference in your mind?
They are all paid professionals.

I understand the NFL's position - they want/need to maintain the appearance of propriety, hence gag orders on coaches and players (effectively... .if they don't want to get fined for talking about the refs), but I do not accept that this stance by them should in any way extend beyond people within the league. The refs and their decisions should be tracked and available for public consumption and dissection every bit as much as a coach's decision on 4th & 2 or a QB's read on a pass play. They are part of the game and they absolutely directly impact the outcome of games.

The nfl officials do not this as their sole source of income ... they all have other jobs ... staratore would have come the closest as his other job was officiating d-1 hoops (he was a cocky jerk but a great ref in football he stunk in hoops ... was grandfathered in .. he stunk) .. the rest .... they all have real jobs ...

What u think Hue, Haley or Bake do on the side ...

No one pay to see the officials ...

The players also get noticed and praised for the good things they do ... when’s the last time u heard any announcer, coach or player say GREAT CALL ... or walk over and thank and official for making a good call .... ....

Sorry Purp .... you’d be emberassing people for no reason at all ...

Bottle gate has had a lingering affect.....

Classy, as always.

If a player drops too many passes, they get benched, cut, traded, whatever. There's repercussions. If the refs miss too many calls, nothing happens. Thats the problem, zero accountability.

That’s WRONG ... they are held accountable ... just cause u don’t see it or its not made public doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen ...

Ya’all have NO CLUE what your talking about when it comes to officiating ... NONE ...

The refs are already disgracing themselves in public. Along with disgracing the NFL, the players, and the fans.

Just a question because I don't know. I know in baseball a manager can play a game under protest. It is a actual rule of the game.

Is there any similar provision in the NFL rule book?

Not that I know of. I know the rule in basketball is: anything is a correctable issue UNTIL the refs leave the playing surface. I assume the same is in football.

j/c:

I have seen Hue complaining to the officials a lot more this year than he has in the past. I don't think bashing the refs in the media is such a good idea, though.

OK...then don't let them leave the playing surface!...lol

As for going nuclear, I don't know what that would do other than maybe make it worse.

How should he do that? I've thought about this before. I would have my own yellow flag. If I questioned a ref and didn't like the answer, I'd throw a yellow flag on him.

That would probably get me kicked out, but message sent. Maybe give fans yellow flags when entering the stadium. When the refs make a bad call, have 60,000 yellow flags thrown in to the air. Not on the field, just up in the air so they could be used again and again. That would be a pretty cool tradition to start.

After every year as a head coach I think you make goals for yourself and grow into your position ... and I'm willing to bet that Hue has made a concerted effort to be more demonstrative and vocal on the sidelines (and the refs have given him plenty chances to do so )

I think Hue was concentrating more on play calling the last couple of years and didn't have time to protest much between plays. He has more time for such things this year because Haley is calling the plays.

Real easy to say sitting in your recliner sipping a beer ...

Get back to me after you’ve spent 5 minutes in there shoes ...

Just another dawg running there mouth about sumptin they know nuttin about ...

.. protest the game ... once again ... more proof of your ignorance of the rules ...

All 6 officials did not miss it ... but u wouldn’t know whose responsibility it is as all you’ve ever done is whine and cry about them ...

U may wanna look that rule up ... if u guys use IBBO (and i believe almost all hs federations are governed by ibbo) your either mis interpreting the rule or have its explained to u wrong ...

Correctable errors have to be corrected within certain rules depending on the rule that has been enforced wrong ...

Your explanation is way to simple ...

PS. There’s more than 6 officials ...

I have a question because I don't know. I have heard about the "under protest" thing in baseball. What does that mean/accomplish?

How many out of the total number of officials would have had a reasonable view to see the obvious movement? I'd bet that number is close to 6...

If a manager feels a rule has not been called correctly he can play the game under protest or protest the outcome.

Protests are rarely upheld, like 7-8 times in baseball history.

One I remember back in the 80's was a game with the Cubs and somebody....lets say Atlanta. In maybe the 6th inning it started to rain with the Cubs ahead by a run or two. They started to tarp the field but the grounds crew botched up in getting the tarp out and it started pouring while the crew was trying to undo the knotted up tarp. The field became unplayable and the umps called the game giving the win to the Cubs. The Atlanta mgr protested and it was upheld by the league or comish's office...whoever decides such matters. The game had to be picked up 3-4 weeks later at the point it was when called. The Braves ended up winning the game.

I see and hear people saying GREAT CALL quite often. I also see and hear GREAT NO CALL.

EVERYONE pays to see the officials, and I don't care that it isn't their sole source of income, they are still paid professionals.

Lastly, I could not care less about whether or not they feel embarrassed. At no point is any of this about their feelings, nor should it be. Their feelings mean diddly squat; they're doing a job where they are judging others, not bringing art projects to Show & Tell. Actually, I think it would be GREAT if they feel embarrassed because then they might do a better job the next time. These guys, at this level, are supposed to be the BEST. Anything that makes the game better by holding people accountable is a Good thing.

The ones that realistically could have called it ... 3 ... if you’ve got a really really gutsy linesman on the other side of the field 4 ...

Here’s how this is gonna breakdown in their evals ...

- linesman on that side of the field is in big trouble ... hes taking a major ding for that one ... that’s his #1 priority ...

- umpire is gonna get whacked pretty hard also .... thats right in his wheel house ,,,, his secondary area ....

- refs gonna take a hit also .. not in his area but something he could grab with no questions asked ....

That’s about it for who will be negatively affected in their evals ...