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Is that a season number or just the past game?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Is that a season number or just the past game? Season.
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Is that a season number or just the past game? Season. That's disturbing. I would think teams would want to let him out of the pocket instead of keeping him in it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I was trying to tell Rastanplan that the Legaue and its players are the ones telling us that Mayfield is the real deal. Add the Raven players now.
jmho man am I so so pleased we got our GUY! What you never realized is that I was not criticizing BM, just not buying the hype. Let the kid play, then we can draw conclusions. So far he had half of a good game against a bad team that thought they had the game won. BM isn't going away soon. You also tend to forget that being a good QB requires him to be in the top 11-12 of the league, and for sure being better than Flacco and Dalton, IMHO. Aaron, Brady, Wilson, Brees, Big Ben, Mahomes, Wentz, Luck Carr, Ryan, Goff, Deshaun, Dak, Garappolo, Cousins, Cam.... that's 16. For BM to be average he has to be better than some of those 16.... Just to put some perspective on my point.
Last edited by rastanplan; 10/16/18 06:23 PM.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...n-rodgers-reignInteresting that some fans still want to act like Baker hasn't done anything yet to distinguish himself ... while around the league he has done performed at a level that is getting him kudos. It's still too early to declare anything ... but if he carries on along his current trajectory, he is going to be special.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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He's obviously going to have some growing pains (like last week) ... and he's going to have to be disciplined and learn from everything (and he'll need some help)
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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He's a work in progress and just like any rookie, he will have his ups and downs.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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He's a work in progress and just like any rookie, he will have his ups and downs. no doubt about it ... but he definitely should have higher ups and fewer downs than, say, Josh Allen (or even Sam Darnold). After all, he was the 1st overall pick. He should be the best rookie.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I have never looked at a draft pick based strictly on their rookie year. I don't believe anyone should ever draft a QB looking at such a short term outlook.
The answer as to who will be the best QB in this class won't come this year. When you draft a QB you are looking for a long term answer at the QB position.
Basing how well a QB draft pick is based on their rookie performance I find to be short sighted.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Basing how well a QB draft pick is based on their rookie performance I find to be short sighted.
You are right about this. I don't think that's necessarily the point being made, however. We can't judge a player based on his rookie somewhat. I mean if Baker struggles all season and doesn't seem to grasp the NFL game it would be rather disappointing. I don't think Baker needs to be better than Darnold or Allen THIS YEAR, as long as he shows he can be. I think we've already seen enough to believe he is the guy. Some will want to see more and that's fair, also. Each situation is different. For our situation, we got the right quarterback for this team and I'll say without a doubt, but feel free to disagree.
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I have never looked at a draft pick based strictly on their rookie year. I don't believe anyone should ever draft a QB looking at such a short term outlook.
The answer as to who will be the best QB in this class won't come this year. When you draft a QB you are looking for a long term answer at the QB position.
Basing how well a QB draft pick is based on their rookie performance I find to be short sighted. Although I agree with you that its far to short to access a player, I also think 1 season, or even less is good enough to have an idea of the ceiling of the player. If in a handful of games you can't have a few example on what makes the kid special then giving him more time isn't going to help. Some players the attribute they have is constantly improving, others have remarkable talent but can't correct the fundamentals. Worst thing that can happen to a team is having a Qb that isn't bad enough to cut, nor good enough to put you in the next level. We had Couch and Frye has good examples.
Last edited by rastanplan; 10/18/18 11:56 AM.
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I don't really disagree to any extent that is meaningful. I do believe we need to see steady progress moving forward, yet you can see the skills he possesses. He has a lot of the attributes it takes to be a successful NFL QB and there's no reason to believe that with some time and experience he can be the answer to our QB woes we've been waiting on for so long.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I don't really disagree to any extent that is meaningful. I do believe we need to see steady progress moving forward, yet you can see the skills he possesses. He has a lot of the attributes it takes to be a successful NFL QB and there's no reason to believe that with some time and experience he can be the answer to our QB woes we've been waiting on for so long. I respectfully disagree.... the skills are all but evident to me.. BM needs to be in the high 60's % completion passes, he is a quick efficient passer, that's whats going to make or brake him, IMHO. I do not think he has an elite arm talent, nor is he a prodigy out of the pocket with super game and field awareness. At least from the sample of games we have, there is nothing pointing that way... Remember that to be a good QB and make a difference you have to be top 12 in the league.... Nothing I have seen so far leads me to believe that...
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Sorry, I didn't mean for the last comment to be directed at you... my post was more of an extension of what you said plus my own thoughts.
The final comment was directed towards the masses. I'm sure there are some who disagree and that's fine. But I've seen enough to know he's the man.
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He's a work in progress and just like any rookie, he will have his ups and downs. no doubt about it ... but he definitely should have higher ups and fewer downs than, say, Josh Allen (or even Sam Darnold). After all, he was the 1st overall pick. He should be the best rookie. Goff's first year looked like a sure fire bust 2 years ago... that looked like he would be released before the end of his contract. RG3 first year looked like he would be a first ballot Hall of Fame QB. All QB's progress and grow differently and no one will really know how a QB will turn out until year 3 or 4.
Meh.
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I don't really disagree to any extent that is meaningful. I do believe we need to see steady progress moving forward, yet you can see the skills he possesses. He has a lot of the attributes it takes to be a successful NFL QB and there's no reason to believe that with some time and experience he can be the answer to our QB woes we've been waiting on for so long. I respectfully disagree.... the skills are all but evident to me.. BM needs to be in the high 60's % completion passes, he is a quick efficient passer, that's whats going to make or brake him, IMHO. I do not think he has an elite arm talent, nor is he a prodigy out of the pocket with super game and field awareness. At least from the sample of games we have, there is nothing pointing that way... Remember that to be a good QB and make a difference you have to be top 12 in the league.... Nothing I have seen so far leads me to believe that... It's so weird to read that people can believe this. But so be it. Baker has a very strong arm and is one of the most accurate we've seen. Accuracy is probably the most important trait for an NFL quarterback. So with these two nuggets, I'm not sure what else you're looking for in an "elite arm." I'm not sure what would lead you to believe Baker doesn't have super game awareness. I think this is one area he excels. Baker has started... 3 games? I think it's a little early to say he already needs to be a top 12 quarterback... I would guess you didn't think Mahomes was a top 12 quarterback last season... what do you think about him now?
Last edited by devicedawg; 10/18/18 12:12 PM.
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[quote=PitDAWG]I don't really disagree to any ext
BM needs to be in the high 60's % completion passes, he is a quick efficient passer, that's whats going to make or brake him, IMHO.
I do not think he has an elite arm talent, nor is he a prodigy out of the pocket with super game and field awareness. At least from the sample of games we have, there is nothing pointing that way...
Remember that to be a good QB and make a difference you have to be top 12 in the league.... Nothing I have seen so far leads me to believe that... let's look and see how many people have a nearly 70% completion record their rookie year.... hmmmmm.... not many. https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.html
Meh.
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He's a work in progress and just like any rookie, he will have his ups and downs. no doubt about it ... but he definitely should have higher ups and fewer downs than, say, Josh Allen (or even Sam Darnold). After all, he was the 1st overall pick. He should be the best rookie. Why then is drew brees the all time leader in passing or tom brady the GOAT? Asking for a friend.
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He's a work in progress and just like any rookie, he will have his ups and downs. no doubt about it ... but he definitely should have higher ups and fewer downs than, say, Josh Allen (or even Sam Darnold). After all, he was the 1st overall pick. He should be the best rookie. Why then is drew brees the all time leader in passing or tom brady the GOAT? Asking for a friend. No doubt, he should have been selected higher. (He was the 2nd QB taken in that draft) ... but the GMs/Coaches who passed on him made a mistake. Just like if Darnold, Allen, or Rosen end up being Brees-like ... we made a mistake. Mayfield should end up being the best QB from this class; if he's not, then we screwed up.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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He's a work in progress and just like any rookie, he will have his ups and downs. no doubt about it ... but he definitely should have higher ups and fewer downs than, say, Josh Allen (or even Sam Darnold). After all, he was the 1st overall pick. He should be the best rookie. Why then is drew brees the all time leader in passing or tom brady the GOAT? Asking for a friend. No doubt, he should have been selected higher. (Yes he was still the first QB taken in that draft) ... but the GMs/Coaches who passed on him made a mistake. Just like if Darnold, Allen, or Rosen end up being Brees-like ... we made a mistake. Mayfield should end up being the best QB from this class; if he's not, then we screwed up. There is no way to project that. In fact, there are more #1 pics that are bust and not the best player in that draft than there are. Name a draft, and I will bet 9/10 out of ten there was a better player picked later. Players develop different and at different times in their life. A player maybe the best player today, but 2 years from now a player develops better than him. I.E Brady. I don't think not picking brady was a mistake made by 32 teams 5X over in the same draft and then 31 teams 6X over. he was not that good coming out of college and had limitations. He broke those limitations, yes. But there not wrong or screwed up. Baker Mayfield is the best Qb in the eyes of the browns, for the browns. Lets say - tomorrow Aaron Rogers gets hurt, and packers lose every game. Next year they have the #1 pick and choose say - Nick Bosa (not saying hes gonna go 1, just throwing out a name). Does that mean hes better than everyone behind him, no. It means for the Packers he was the best pick at that pick. You can hate Mayfield all you want, he has shown why he was the #1 pick. I think Darnold has shown why he COULD have been the number one pick as well. But you and others would rather try to prove your right about Mayfield, that admit you are absolutely and entirely wrong about him. I don't care if "hes the best QB". after 20 years of freaking crap Qbs, all I want is a good one. hes a good one. Also, your stat about being the "2nd qb picked" is a little misleading. he wasn't selected until the 2nd round, meaning he was the 32nd player picked in that draft. So you are saying 31 players by default were better than him..... And finally, what do you do for a living? I will go ahead and say you are not "the number 1 pick at your job", I guess it was mistake keeping you working there huh?
Last edited by willitevachange; 10/18/18 01:02 PM.
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He's a work in progress and just like any rookie, he will have his ups and downs. no doubt about it ... but he definitely should have higher ups and fewer downs than, say, Josh Allen (or even Sam Darnold). After all, he was the 1st overall pick. He should be the best rookie. Bullcrap. We will see in another 2/12 years how they are all headed.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I don't really disagree to any extent that is meaningful. I do believe we need to see steady progress moving forward, yet you can see the skills he possesses. He has a lot of the attributes it takes to be a successful NFL QB and there's no reason to believe that with some time and experience he can be the answer to our QB woes we've been waiting on for so long. I respectfully disagree.... the skills are all but evident to me.. BM needs to be in the high 60's % completion passes, he is a quick efficient passer, that's whats going to make or brake him, IMHO. I do not think he has an elite arm talent, nor is he a prodigy out of the pocket with super game and field awareness. At least from the sample of games we have, there is nothing pointing that way... Remember that to be a good QB and make a difference you have to be top 12 in the league.... Nothing I have seen so far leads me to believe that... I can see why Stevie Wonder.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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He's a work in progress and just like any rookie, he will have his ups and downs. no doubt about it ... but he definitely should have higher ups and fewer downs than, say, Josh Allen (or even Sam Darnold). After all, he was the 1st overall pick. He should be the best rookie. Why then is drew brees the all time leader in passing or tom brady the GOAT? Asking for a friend. No doubt, he should have been selected higher. (Yes he was still the first QB taken in that draft) ... but the GMs/Coaches who passed on him made a mistake. Just like if Darnold, Allen, or Rosen end up being Brees-like ... we made a mistake. Mayfield should end up being the best QB from this class; if he's not, then we screwed up. There is no way to project that. In fact, there are more #1 pics that are bust and not the best player in that draft than there are. Name a draft, and I will bet 9/10 out of ten there was a better player picked later. Players develop different and at different times in their life. A player maybe the best player today, but 2 years from now a player develops better than him. I.E Brady. I don't think not picking brady was a mistake made by 32 teams 5X over in the same draft and then 31 teams 6X over. he was not that good coming out of college and had limitations. He broke those limitations, yes. But there not wrong or screwed up. Baker Mayfield is the best Qb in the eyes of the browns, for the browns. Lets say - tomorrow Aaron Rogers gets hurt, and packers lose every game. Next year they have the #1 pick and choose say - Nick Bosa (not saying hes gonna go 1, just throwing out a name). Does that mean hes better than everyone behind him, no. It means for the Packers he was the best pick at that pick. You can hate Mayfield all you want, he has shown why he was the #1 pick. I think Darnold has shown why he COULD have been the number one pick as well. But you and others would rather try to prove your right about Mayfield, that admit you are absolutely and entirely wrong about him. I don't care if "hes the best QB". after 20 years of freaking crap Qbs, all I want is a good one. hes a good one. Also, your stat about being the "2nd qb picked" is a little misleading. he wasn't selected until the 2nd round, meaning he was the 32nd player picked in that draft. So you are saying 31 players by default were better than him..... And finally, what do you do for a living? I will go ahead and say you are not "the number 1 pick at your job", I guess it was mistake keeping you working there huh? If you have followed my comments about Baker, i've actually been supportive and AGREE that he's looked good ... my point is that he SHOULD though. It's not wrong to have high expectations for him (or Myles, or whoever is the #1 overall pick). Am I expecting him to be the next Brees, Brady, etc? Not necessarily ... but if he's just average it was a bad pick IMO. In terms of my own employment? If I was the FIRST teacher selected by my principal out of the 75 others ... then yes, I should be one of (if not THE) best.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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j/c:
If I had the same mindset as the Hue Hate Club, I would say that if Baker doesn't win at least 6-8 games this year he should be cut.
Of course, I'm not that absurd.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 10/18/18 05:42 PM.
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j/c:
If I had the same mindset as the Hue Hate Club, I would say that if Baker doesn't win at least 6-8 games this year he should be cut.
Of course, I'm not that absurd. How about if he went 1-31 in the two seasons prior?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Talk to me after the season is over... I am not going to anoint him the savior or discard him to the jersey heap, until there are a few more games under his belt.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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j/c:
If I had the same mindset as the Hue Hate Club, I would say that if Baker doesn't win at least 6-8 games this year he should be cut.
Of course, I'm not that absurd. How about if he went 1-31 in the two seasons prior? I actually think that there is a zero percent chance associated with your presumption.... Not Kizer... so move along...
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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j/c:
If I had the same mindset as the Hue Hate Club, I would say that if Baker doesn't win at least 6-8 games this year he should be cut.
Of course, I'm not that absurd. How about if he went 1-31 in the two seasons prior? I agree. That was a terrible analogy. But, we could defer to the Baker Hate Club.
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j/c:
If I had the same mindset as the Hue Hate Club, I would say that if Baker doesn't win at least 6-8 games this year he should be cut.
Of course, I'm not that absurd. There is no Hue Hate club, the only club that exists is the Hue man crush club... We have cut some first round QB picks before, but usually it takes more than a season. I'm not arguing for it, but if the rest of the fans judge BM like they are judging TT, then I guess he wont be here for long. Cleveland fans have impossible standards and are completely delusional regarding players.
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C'mon
Baker has looked good for half a game against the Jets when their D stopped pressuring the QB and thought the game was won. Yet it was a very good performance from Baker.
All the other games were OK,not good.
By the way,I think this is perfectly acceptable,he's a rookie, but I have doubts that the crowd that were blaming TT would agree on that take...
Last edited by rastanplan; 10/19/18 08:50 AM.
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j/c:
If I had the same mindset as the Hue Hate Club, I would say that if Baker doesn't win at least 6-8 games this year he should be cut.
Of course, I'm not that absurd. Does baker have any other history to go on in the NFL? asking for a friend?
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No Bake doesn’t .... Does Hue have any history prior to this year as HEAD COACH ONLY of the Cleveland Browns ... Asking for a friend? ... whats that mean ... Oh gosh .... nevermind ..... why am i here ... Get out diam ...get out now .. Have fun dawgs ... I’M OUT .... Please PM and tell me what .... asking for a friend? Means ... Ty sir ... 
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No Bake doesn’t .... Does Hue have any history prior to this year as HEAD COACH ONLY of the Cleveland Browns ... Asking for a friend? ... whats that mean ... Oh gosh .... nevermind ..... why am i here ... Get out diam ...get out now .. Have fun dawgs ... I’M OUT .... Please PM and tell me what .... asking for a friend? Means ... Ty sir ... lol. Hue does have history as a HC. Its readily findable. I am all for giving Jackson the chance to lead this team. I have said so on multiple occasions, I don't think he can lead us to a winning season, but that's JMO, and its up to Hue to prove me wrong. So far he has not, in 38 games. The Hue Lovers on this board bash everyone questioning Hue, and bash people that say if hue doesn't win 6 games we should think about another direction. Let me ask you this, if Hue loses every game from here on out, and finishes the season 2-13-1 or 3-12-1, you want to keep him? with the upgrade in talent we have, you would be behind that? Edit to add: The asking for a friend thing an internet saying, Someone uses this phrase while asking a question. They claim to be asking for a friend, when they are in fact asking for themselves. Like "hey doctor, I have A FRIEND that wants to know if its a good idea to use cocaine - my friend not me" so you would say - Is it a good idea to use coke - asking for a friend
Last edited by willitevachange; 10/19/18 09:57 AM.
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j\c
San Diego ran the same defence the whole game and the Browns never adjusted their O to counter them....I ask the more football astute here whose job is it to recognize the them problem and adjust the O to help Baker to give them the best chance to win the game?
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Edit to add: The asking for a friend thing an internet saying, Someone uses this phrase while asking a question. They claim to be asking for a friend, when they are in fact asking for themselves. Like "hey doctor, I have A FRIEND that wants to know if its a good idea to use cocaine - my friend not me" so you would say - Is it a good idea to use coke - asking for a friend I get it, so when you go up to a woman, as long as you say you're asking for a friend, you can ask something like, "This morning, when you put that on, did you think that outfit didn't make you look fat?"
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974 |
Edit to add: The asking for a friend thing an internet saying, Someone uses this phrase while asking a question. They claim to be asking for a friend, when they are in fact asking for themselves. Like "hey doctor, I have A FRIEND that wants to know if its a good idea to use cocaine - my friend not me" so you would say - Is it a good idea to use coke - asking for a friend I get it, so when you go up to a woman, as long as you say you're asking for a friend, you can ask something like, "This morning, when you put that on, did you think that outfit didn't make you look fat?" You should be ok.....try it out and let me know 
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,562
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,562 |
It's Todd Haley's job. The one thing that bothers me is that with all the injuries to our WR's it probably will retard BM's growth as a QB. Just our luck our WR's went from a team strength to a weakness and it will hurt the most important player we have. 
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518 |
Thanks......So your saying that if the HC sees a problem that he should not suggest to the OC to adjust to it...that's curious
Last edited by Riley01; 10/19/18 11:17 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,675
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,675 |
Edit to add: The asking for a friend thing an internet saying, Someone uses this phrase while asking a question. They claim to be asking for a friend, when they are in fact asking for themselves. Like "hey doctor, I have A FRIEND that wants to know if its a good idea to use cocaine - my friend not me" so you would say - Is it a good idea to use coke - asking for a friend I get it, so when you go up to a woman, as long as you say you're asking for a friend, you can ask something like, "This morning, when you put that on, did you think that outfit didn't make you look fat?" You should be ok.....try it out and let me know Yes, and pick up one of those steaks from the "Hanger Steak" thread, you may need it sooner than you think. 
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mayfield Officially Named Starter
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