DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 23 Buccaneers 26 Postgame thoughts

drobs, we had a “mike Evans type receiver”. He is lighting it up for New England now. But we got a draft pick for him!!!!

That's on coaching staff.

Your NE's of the world don't have penalties week in and week out on crucial drives and plays. There's a reason for that. Its called discipline and being prepared.

I would like to see stats for penalties that where called that weren't penalties and penalties that did occur that were not called. And first downs and point off those penalties or lack there of. I understand I will never see that list but I bet it looks bad for us and good for our opponents.

I think dueling should be made legal once more, under the Code Duello.

It would result in a lot of troll death, which is always a good thing.

But is it not reasonable to expect this young team, over the course of the season, to become more disciplined, to commit fewer penalties, and to be more consistent?

From what I have seen, this young team is not improving. Whose fault is that?

And if your answer to that question is anybody but the coaching staff, then who is responsible for this team's failure to develop? Who?

The screw you Cleveland started on the Bucs 1st or second drive when the refs gave them a first down when the ball was clearly at least a full yard short of the 1st down marker.

Good fair questions ... can’t remember if u answered ... are u a lawyer? ... if not I’m gonna venture to guess your in a profession that is highly “logical” ....

I agree with everythng u said ... would u agree that every situation is different?

In THIS case I would argue that history would show that the youth of a team correlates to a higher number of penalties than a more veteran team ...

Then add to that the constant influx of RAW ROOKIES or players that weren’t even on the team as recently as the faider game and your going to see even more mistakes and penalties .....

Trust me .. i’m not one for making excuses .... this is the FIRST TIME I’ve ever defended anything to do with this org.since our return .... this is not my MO ... i’m doing t cause these are the facts ... and i’ve Been EXTREMELY HARD on Hue in the past ....

I dont know if he’s a good HC or not ... i do know he needs a chance and 7 games with raw butt rookies all over the O isn’t near enough time to make that judgement ....

Bakers slide was late, he has to get down earlier than that, period end of discussion.

It’s really, extra brutal that Peppers was having such a standout game as a playmaker on defense and return man. I’d argue Peppers had his best game and still fumbled the game away. Really tough for the young man.

We are severely limited at WR as usual. Seeing Josh Gordon playing for the pats is very, very annoying. No one was getting open in the 1st half and the adjustments from the coaching staff were zero until halftime. I simply cannot understand why this team cannot make in game adjustments to coverages.

Myles Garret man, what can I say the guy is everything we thought he was going to be. Just an out and out stud who will get better each year.

Let’s be serious for a second, the Demarious Randall trade was a win this season at a minimum. He has been very solid at both Safety and yesterday at corner. Kizer will not be anything in this league.

I don’t know what happened there but the Browns stood by Gordon when other teams may not. NE has a mature environment where he can just slide in. I wish him luck but on what is known I don’t think the Browns could have done much more? Happy to be corrected.

Agree with everything you said with the exception of Baker's head hit.

Yes he was late sliding. But the new NFL totally outlaws leading with the head and any helmet to helmet hit initiated by the tackler results in a penalty. That's irrespective of who the player being tackled - WR, RB, TE or scrambling QB.

Ref make mistakes every game for every team and it would be wrong to use them as an excuse. . . but man the Browns are getting bent over the table and royally $%#* every game - at some point you'd expect the law of averages to equal out and we'd receive the benefit of the bad calls more than the other team ... but not yet.

I disagree. 5 years ago it was a late slide. Todays NFL you hit the QB on 31 other teams you get the flag.


He really is starting to shine, I hope this doesn't make him question himself now. I was finally starting to see something.

He also is held on just about every single play - no flags

+1

I can't help but think: If that was Brady, Brees, Mahommes, Ben, Goff, Rivers, Rodgers, Stafford, Newton, Ryan, Wentz, ETC ... THAT'S A FLAG. Period.

I just went back to watch Garrets sack with three minutes left.
What a play by him! no quit he laid it all out there to get that sack. He had to break a half nelson to get the sack.
Also on the play the right tackle jumped way way before the snap no flag.

I agree. It was a spear with the helmet. That should be called a penalty all day long, no matter who he hit.

exactly ... i don't care if it's a runner, passer, catcher, Olineman, etc .. that TYPE of hit is no longer allowed in the NFL

And the fact that the official came on mic and explained why it was ok is mind boggling. And I swear they were about to flag Baker for taunting.

j/c. I had two postgame thoughts as I was sitting here this morning reading the reviews of the Sunday games. First, Carl nassib had two sacks and played a pretty decent game at end while our three primary pass rushers played 80+ plays each in 90+ degree Florida heat because we did not have backups we considered reliable enough to play. We got rid of a quality backup without any plan to replace him.
Second, we could not get enough push with our offensive line to gain less than a yard on a qb sneak. That has happened multiple times. Our qb is getting more pressure than we would like. Meanwhile, cam Erving is a starting guard for arguably the best team in the afc.
I just wish we would give our draft picks time to develop.

Mishmash of thoughts.. I’m still in Tampa Bay poolside as I type this RJS is a Mickey Mouse stadium badly designed and very much the Junior varsity. A LOT of Browns fans were here, if you take away the Browns fans and we don’t buy the Bucs tickeys.. they MIGHT have a half full venue.

Was pleased to see Ogbah more involved.. looked good.

Baker and a revolving cast of receivers not on the same page w routes and accuracy

Don’t need Hyde.. Chubbie is fine

It’s blazing HOT here, wearing football gear has to be exhausting

Every time we do something right, next play there is a penalty real or imagined..

RJS cut off the crucial replays before the crowd could see them after the head to head hit and the completion slash fumble.. he had possession! I know a little more about NFL rules now especially about HTH hits involving QBs.. depends on who you are..

Us fans, We all relaxed when we were on the 2 yard line, the way Chubb was running.. run him straight ahead 3 times TD!!

After ever play people would cheer “No flags!!”

7 games worth of raw butt rookies? SEVEN games?

No, more like 39 games. Why do Hue apologists pretend those first two seasons of 1-31 never happened?

And during those 39 games, the Browns have featured a lot of raw butt rookies who quite understandably were undisciplined, committed penalties, and were inconsistent.

And yet here we are, in Year Three of the Hue era. Has there been improvement? Are the rooks learning and gradually becoming more disciplined, committing fewer penalties, and becoming more consistent?

Or, after seven games, are we seeing the same things this year that we saw the past two years? Where is the improvement? Even a young team, especially a young team, should demonstrate improvement with good coaching as the season rolls forward.

I'm sorry but Hue is a mediocre coach.

Real coaches, good coaches, bring improvement to their teams. Very good coaches, like Marty Shottenheimer, bring immediate improvement to their teams. (Yes, I know Marty's playoff record sucked, which is why I said "very good coach" and not "great coach".)

It's been over 30 years since the Browns had a very good head coach. (Bellichick was not very good his first time as a head coach, as he has publicly acknowledged.)

Because the Browns coaching ranks have been so bad for so long, I don't think Browns fans have much clue anymore the huge and immediate impact that a really good coach makes on a team. It's obvious. Instead, we Browns fans welcome a Hue or a Mangini or a Romeo and we think they are really good when they are merely typically NFL mediocre coaches at best.

This is being very kind.

Tampa Bay threw the red flag and tried to challenge a play before the OT kick. Obviously, they can't do that and were charged a timeout. Should that of been a delay of game penalty?

It used to be IIRC (I think we were burned with this in the past) ... but the rule changed. If they wouldn't have had a timeout, then yes, it's a flag.

IIRC, it is only a delay of game if they do not have a time out left.

saint, I was at rjs yesterday as well. This may be a slight exaggeration but I swear there were as many fans in browns jerseys/hats as bucs stuff. That could have been a virtual home game for us if our offense would have given us something to get excited about but they did not. In they second half even when we tied the game the fans just never got into it. A missed opportunity.

Although Cam I starting, he still stinks. I watched the game last night, Mahommes and that offense is superb at getting the ball out quickly to their playmakers and letting them do their thing. Cam is not doing anything special. Glad he is gone. On plays they didn't go deep, he was getting help all game, he still stinks lol.

Nassib was a numbers game. We knew what we had w/ Nassib - and we had a few guys we just drafted and actually had depth at that position when we cut him. Sucks to see him go, but as you become a better team talent wise, you will have to let some decent players go. That's actually a good problem to have and one of the few things I think says we are going in the right direction personnel wise.

If I remember correctly, we have only used the QB sneak once before, where we got it with Mayfield this year. I am pretty certain though, because I remember the few times we had 4 and inches people were complaining we didn't sneak it. Now we sneak it and it doesn't work out, we hear complaining for sneaking it. BM is not a big guy, he is going to get stopped on those more than the average proto type Qb.

Agree on the pressure, but I am not sure if that's more on the line, or the fact we are not getting WR open and he has to hold the ball. a few plays I noticed BM was his 2nd and 3rd look with his eyes before he took the sack. To me that means those are coverage sacks.

JMo.

Exactly, that is why they get charged the timeout. Its basically a delay of game penalty, but if you have TO they "allow" you take that instead of getting hit with delay penalty.

I will say this...Refs have been calling a flag on us for any questionable block imaginable...(even the ones where our player is stumbling and runs into the side or back of a player)

Yet they fail to call the same easy call on the other team...

Behind the scenes, I don't know what we did to get jacked by the ref's...but it's difficult to watch.

I do try to watch as much other games as possible...and trust me there is very sketchy calls every game, and it is getting out of hand and seems biased in reason.

Our city sued the NFL and won, so the league won't be satisfied with less than two full decades of misery for the city?

I read your posts to me with an equal level of anticipation at what i may learn and be exposed too and at the same time an equal amount of fear you will school me like u do most others with a thoughtful, logical well written post .... its an interesting feeling ... *L*

This one dissapointed me ... *L* ..

U never answered my question ... are u a lawyer? ...

Yes 7 games ... he has a NEW JOB this year IMO ....

New job = clean slate in my world ...

To answer your questions ...

1, Has there been improvement? ... 1 - 15 ... 0 - 16 ... 2 wins with 9 to play and every game but one being ULTRA COMPETITIVE ...

U tell me, has there been improvement? ... that seems like a pretty safe question on my part .. *LOL* ...

2. Are the rooks learning and gradually becoming more disciplined, commiting fewer penalties and becoming more consistent ...

On the penalties .. i know mg still jumps offsides way to much ... I HATE IT .. but if we take that “anticipation” away do we lose some sacks ... not sure what the trade off is there but it does need to stop so i agree with u there ... it’s just not as back and white as it seems ...

Other than that when it comes to penalties i’d Need to see a breakdown ... u didn’t TOUCH MY PREMISE .. we both know why that is ... ...

As far as improvement ...

Obi .. NO DOUBT ...
MG - Yes
Ogbah - improved in year 1, hasn’t been healthy since ..
Peppers - clearly as a return man ... its like a light switch went on ... is showing more on d .. long ways to go but improving ..

I’d say YES ... the kids are IMPROVING as players as they should ...

There young bro ... its gonna take time ...

I’ll say it again .. it’s THAT IMPORTANT ...

Rook qb handing off to rook rb ... rook qb passing to two rook wr’s .... rook qb having his blindside protected by a rook LT .. add that to a bunch of other younger guys and new O and OC ... EVERYTHING NEW and the key is a ROOKIE that has n’t even started a handful of games yet ...

Come on dawg ... thats a pretty high bar when it comes to penalties ...

No? .. am i being unreasonable?

3. Are we seeing same things as last year

In PENALTIES ... ABSOLUTELY ... again .. NEW and YOUNG ... see who our rookie qb is playing with ..

Were also seeing ULTRA COMPETITIVE GAMES and even some WINS ..

So ya ... were seeing some of the same negative things but were seeing some new things I LOVE ...

U may be right ... Hue may be a mediocre or even a bad coach ..

I think he deserves a chance to prove it with a team that has a chance like this years team .... so far i thiink he’s done good ... u obviusly disagree ... and thats OK ...

Your obviously not just your average run of the mill follow the crowd vulture ... your a smart, articulate vulture ... that i have immense respect for even though your rushing to judgement here ...

U could tell on the first drive .. duke picked up a 1st and the DUKE chants were so loud it caught my attention ... wasn’t at the level of a home game but it was dang close ...

Ya’all represented GREAT ...

I don't think it's an exaggeration. I went to Carolina for the Browns game when JM wimped out... I swear it was 60/40 Panthers to Browns fans (at least in the upper half.. the place exploded when Hoyer came on to the field.

Just musing, but the Browns sucked for so long and rarely did a team have to bring it's A (or B) game to play us. We weren't worth serious consideration. Could it be possible the refs may have a little of that same attitude? A little implicit bias maybe??

As u well know that’ll happen down in these here parts ... Saturdays is the day the streets are empty as everyone is in watching SEC football ... at least where i’m From thats how it is ..

Saturday is set aside for football as opposed to up north where its sunday ... or out west where they just don’t care ... *LOL* ...

It took me some time to get used to .. kept wondering where everyone was on saturdays ..

There is no GOOD time to commit a penalty but it did seem on offense we would get a first down or two, start getting some momentum, have a nice gain of 7 or 8 yards to set up second and short... No, wait, the little yellow flag light came on.. not 2nd and 2... 1st and 20... we did that multiple times.

Obviously we are much improved from the recent past, but we still aren't good enough to continuously overcome those types of setbacks....

Or we'd have a nice 1st down play .. and have a holding call to make it 1st and 20

Does anyone remember a play where we got flagged for an illegal block in the back where the defender was being blocked front-to-front and he spun around so the block appeared to be in the back? I know I saw it but can't recall the circumstances.

Yep I remember that. That happened.

I think it was a play from scrimmage, not a return. I also think it was pretty big gainer that got called back, but just can't place the point in the game that it happened.

Yep, it looked to me like the defender spun and tripped over the blockers legs.

Was that the Ogbah call? When Ogbah was stumbling into him