DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Tip of my hat to Mr. Jackson ...

I understand that ... but a lot of posters think Hue is the #1 problem with the team and emotions are always high after a tough loss like yesterday.... It's human nature and venting is part of the healing process. That's how I look at it.

There is a ton of positives about the team. Not the least of which is the rookie talent.

That's fair.

And yeah the rookie talent (and even some of the younger non-rookie talent) is excellent and bodes well for the future. The NFL structure lets bad teams become good quickly... the salary cap and cost-controlled rookie contracts are a big part of that.

Not kicking a field goal at the end of the half? Had we done that we would have never gone to OT.

Just saying. Early in the game, and halftime is still early, the "book" is you take the points.

Yes, I know, it's easy to look back and second guess so I am not doing any major finger pointing on that call, but none the less it would have changed the outcome.

Yes, I know.

We have been saying this for ages. Now fire HUE and if in 2 seasons we don't improve and Hue goes to a playoff with another team, then I'll admit I was wrong.

Time to prove us Hue Haters wrong, just fire the guy already.

It's way better to prove you wrong by NOT firing Hue.

But that is being impossible,because HUE is a proving me right...

Still fail to see what makes Hue such a great coach for you guys...

He is so clearly a bad coach....

I'll be as honest as I can about "why" we lost in my opinion:

- Penalties. Literally killed us. Whether we blame that on coaching, preparation, focus, execution, etc. I don't know. But they HAVE to stop or we won't win close games.

- Our first half offense was awful. The protection was spotty, Baker held the ball too long, little action down the field. IMO we MUST do something to combat what defenses are doing to Baker: collapsing the pocket and taking away his quick throwing lanes. Whether that's moving the pocket, rolling him out, getting better playmakers, quick screens, misdirections, etc. It's a copy cat league ... it's our turn to counter.

- Turnovers. Baker's fumble was HUGE ... that's throwing away 3 points (if not 7). And it was bad luck honestly. And Peppers fumble did us in.

Hue Jackson listed as ‘worst coach of all time’ on Wikipedia

https://fox8.com/2018/10/22/hue-jackson-listed-as-worst-coach-of-all-time-on-wikipedia/


BEREA, Ohio– Fresh off another loss, Browns head coach Hue Jackson is now the “worst coach of all time.” That’s according to his Wikipedia page on Monday.

Cleveland fell to Tampa Bay in overtime on Sunday, 23-26. The Browns record is now 2-4-1, putting them last in the AFC North.

“We had our chances to win it. We just didn’t finish some things,” Jackson said.

He has just three wins in 39 games as the Browns head coach.

LOL

I hear Vers's blood boiling from here.

I hope the mods at Wikipedia change that because that's just mean. I mean, he probably will go down as such for the forseeable future but it doesn't need to be printed anywhere on a platform like that.

This x 10000000.

People just want to finger point, and its always at Hue. He's not perfect, but his decisions yesterday didn't cost us the game. Lack of execution did.

On yesterday's game I mostly agree with that, my only exception would be that Hue should have kicked the FG at the end of the first half. We were only down by 14, there was a whole half yet to be played, and Tampa got the ball to start the second half, to me you take the points.

Understandable for sure. It's always arguable to go for it on 4th down in a scoring situation.

I thought going for it was the right call. Being down 5-16 (still being down 2 scores), with how the Browns offense was playing, they needed more than 3 IMO.

Baker has to hold on to that ball.

I just got home from work and I am shocked that Hue Jackson is still the coach!

If we had kicked the FG, and lost by 3, people would have complained that we had the ball near the goal line, and we're too scared to go for it.

You know that's true.

You also cannot assume that the rest of the game would have proceeded as it did from that point.

With the 2 others I was watching the game with.......when they went for it on 4th, I said "Good. Even if they don't get a first, or a t.d., I like this call of going for it."

I did then, and I do now. Now, perhaps I didn't like the PLAY call, but I was all on board for going for it. And I don't hold that call against Hue in any way.

Hind sight is 20/20. If hind sight were valid, I'd have won nearly a billion dollars friday night.

I was okay w/Hue kicking it or going for it. I see the logic in both.

Hue got criticized for not going for it 4th down a couple of weeks ago from his own 18 w/an 8 point lead. Now, he is getting criticized for going for it when trailing by double figures in plus territory.

Again, I understand going for it and I also understand going for the points. Then again, is our kicker a sure thing?

That isn't true. We know how the game played out. That is what it is. We didn't kick, they got the ball and didn't score. It would have played out the same.


I wouldn't be one of them because taking points is always a smart play unless you need more points than a field goal near the end of the game. At that point we still had a half to play. Too early for panic or drastic moves. A team can sense when the coach is in panic mode.

Had we kicked the ball and made it, nobody can deny we would have won the ball game. We know how the game played out. Three more points at the end of the 4th qtr. spells a win for us.

Just remember, it was almost a sack. It wasn't some called QB run.

jc, saw this on PFT:

Hue Jackson has “no doubt” higher-ups support him

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...t-him/#comments

The article itself is fairly generic, albeit it misstates Hue's record as 2-35-1 instead of 3-35-1. I don't think it's right to shortchange a man a third of his wins.

More interesting are the comments. This are all 13 of them at this time (none of these are from me):


Add in the ESPN crew ranking Hue 118th out of 118 major pro sports coaches, and it's been a long time since I've seen someone outside of Cleveland defend the guy.

From that point on the field I don't think as a coach you can even consider him missing it. If he had, that wouldn't be a coaching failure.

You play the guys you have. You expect a good snap and hold, and a solid kick between the posts. We are talking a 28 yarder here. Not a 60 yard kick on 4th a 2.

I know you really agree with me but don't want to...I get it to use Hue's words, but we should have put points on the board in that situation. That is going in to the locker with some momentum. That is walking of the field with a win, not a failure.


You mentioned him for not going for it a game or so before. Each game is different. A head coach can't base his decisions based on some decision in a previous game. Each game is different. You can't let one decisions change the next.

peen, I really don't wish to speak w/you anymore. Talk to the guys who are on the same crusade you are.

You have no idea how the Bucs play calling would have changed if they had needed another 3rd/4th quarter score.

Games turn on small details.

Hue is taking a lot of Blame for the record... He may not always say the right things in his pressers and it may seem he throws people under the bus.

I don't know if he is or isn't... I do know that the team has pretty much fought in all but the Chargers game.

I can't blame Hue for all the terrible calls from the refs..I don't know how any team could keep coming back from all the refs BS calls.

I think Hue is odd in a way... I also think Bill Belichick is odd in a way. When Bill was HC with the Browns..There were times when he did pressers..I would think."wth is wrong with you ?"

Well.... Many of times I wished we had odd Bill back...What if odd Hue turns into that odd Bill ? It really isn't that bad..It really isn't that good... But it's okay..I don't have that feeling of being satisfied..But I'm okay.

Who really does this staff have that I can honestly say I would rather have as HC ? I can't think of one.

Still got 9 games to go... Could end up being okay... I can't control what happens with the situation...Change or no change...Still got to be excited that there's 9 games to go and there could be some fun wins ahead.

Whatever man.

You know I am right, and do remember I said I am not pointing at Hue for the decision. I might have gone for it as well. I am just pointing out that 3 more points would have won the game. You asked how Hue might have lost the game and I answered. As I told you the last time you said you didn't want to speak to me anymore, that is your choice. I consider you a friend and will reply to you any time I damn well please or seek your input.


Quit being so dramatic. This is a message board. A place where people voice their opinions. We aren't always going to agree.

Think of it as people sitting at the bar drinking some brews and shooting the sheet. Are you the type of guy who ends up in fistfights with people who disagree with you? I don't think so, so quit doing it here.

As I said in a thread last night: the butterfly effect.

We kick that fg, everything changes after that, and we do t know how it would have ended.

That is 100% true. Absolutely.

What doesn't change is that taking the 3 points was the right call.

And I understand that there might be posters with an agenda who will second guess any and every decision just to grind their axe ... but you can't use that as a way to defend Hue. we were down by 14 points, with a half of football to play. 3 points takes it makes it 11 points - an TD with a 2pt conversion and a FG for a tie. 2 TD's for the lead.

I didn't think we should have gone for 4th down when we were winning and inside our own half - Hue made the right call. I didn't think we should have gone for it vs Tampa - Hue made the wrong call. imo.

Yep....whole lot of smoke with Lane and Reuter alluding to this also. Same crap every year with the infighting

Fair enough. We see it different but can still get along.

We should have gotten rid of Jackson after the 0-16 record last year.

Imagine a company like Harper Collin's Publishers(that has been around since 1817) and they had a CEO who presided over the largest year end financial loss in the history of the company(this is equivalent to the 0-16 blunder that Jackson presided over) Do you really think a board of directors exists that would keep that CEO after that? Nope.

See once you go 0-16, your not coming back from that. It not only gets inside Jackson's head, it get inside the players heads to. it seeps into the organization like a cancer. Its never talked about, but everyone knows its there. an 0-16 plants the seeds of doubt that no one in the building or locker room wants to talk about.

The ONLY way this organization will be able to move forward and move on from that 0-16 season is to get rid of the guys in charge responsible for it. As much as i liked Sashi Brown, he needed to go, and Jackson should have been let go with him.

Put this nonsense out of its misery, Tell Jackson to pack it up, its finished. Put Todd Haley in charge and tell him you got 8 games to prove you deserve to be the HC of this football team or we will look elsewhere.

If Haley can win 5 or 6 out of 8 then its obvious the team rallies around him and you keep him and probably keep Williams. If Haley fails, then Dorsey cna go hire one of his Green Bay guys.

We need to close this chapter, its time for Jackson to go. I know he wants to win, I know he is trying, but it isn't working out. Jackson appears to be an ok guy, just for whatever reason things didn't work out. wish him no ill will, but its time to move forward in a new direction.

Hue Jackson talked, and created his own problems with Todd Haley: Terry Pluto


Updated 5:28 PM; Posted 4:55 PM

https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/10/hue_jackson_talked_and_created.html

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

terrypluto2003@yahoo.com

CLEVELAND -- Hue Jackson is right about many of the problems with the Browns offense.

They start too slow. They don't do a good job protecting quarterback Baker Mayfield. They aren't scoring enough points.

He's also right about having experience calling plays and shaping offenses. He succeeded in that role as the offensive coordinator with the Cincinnati Bengals. That was part of the reason the Browns hired him as head coach in 2016.

But Jackson is wrong when he blames the media for trying to create division between himself and offensive coordinator Todd Haley.

For decades, I've listened to frustrated Browns coaches immediately after losses.

I've never heard a head coach speak so publicly about needing to step into a coordinator's domain as Jackson did after Sunday's 26-23 loss in Tampa.

"I've got to jump in head first all hands, feet and everything to go figure that out," Jackson said after losing yet again in overtime.

Jackson called plays in his first two seasons as the Browns' head coach. I wondered if he'd continue to let Haley to do that job if the team struggled.

"I feel like I have to and I want to (help the offense)," Jackson said after the game. "I'm not going to continue to watch something that I know how to do...That's just the truth. That's nothing against anyone in the building."

Because Jackson was an offensive coordinator, he has to know how he'd feel if his head coach was so publicly critical.

This is not to defend Haley. He's struggled with a team that has scored only four touchdowns in the last three games.

It's mind-boggling that the Browns have scored only six points (two field goals) in the first quarters of seven games this season.

Haley has an offense with a rookie quarterback, a rookie left tackle, a rookie running back and some very young receivers. No one should expect a powerhouse.

But the offense is in a major regression after showing some early season promise.

CLEANING UP A MESS?

I reviewed what Jackson said because he's trying to blame others for his own problems.

He talked publicly about helping the offense and "infusing himself" into it. Those points could be made in a meeting with Haley and other coaches on offense.

Just the coaches, no one else needs to know.

I'm sure other head coaches have shown that kind of discretion.

But being so vocal, so public and so critical of his offensive coordinator is a failure of leadership on his part.

He also said Sunday, "I'm the head coach of this football team. Period. Period. There's nothing else that needs to be said. Nothing. That's the way it works.

"I'm the head coach of the football team. That's it. It's not about butting heads. I'm the head coach of the football team."

At least four times, he mentioned he's the head coach.

He did the same in the first episode of Hard Knocks when Haley questioned Jackson about having players sit out practice to avoid injuries.

It's odd Jackson feels he has to keep reminding people that he's the head coach. It's not a good sign.

"It was not harshness on the staff," Jackson explained Monday. "It was harshness of I want to win."

No matter how Jackson tried make nice on Monday, he's opened the door to speculation of there being a significant split within the coaching staff.

That's especially true because Haley is a former head coach, a veteran offensive coordinator and has a very strong personality.

MOVING FORWARD

Jackson insisted he still has the full support of ownership and of General Manager John Dorsey.

But he knows his job is on the line. His record is 3-35-1 in three seasons, and he has yet to win a road game. The road losing streak is at 19 heading into Sunday's game in Pittsburgh.

I'm not sure firing Jackson in the middle of the season solves much -- unless there is someone available right now the Browns would want to be full-time coach next season.

Interim head coaches rarely work.

Somehow, Jackson has to not only "fix the offense," he has to repair the damage he did to his coaching staff.

At Monday's press conference, a much calmer and better prepared Jackson insisted, "I never said I'd take over the play calling (from Haley)."

He also explained: "When I brought Todd Haley here, I made the commitment to give him total autonomy of the offense."

He added that he worked with Special Teams Coach Amos Jones the last few weeks to improve that area of the team, and no one complained about that.

That's because didn't seem to be criticizing his special teams coach. His comments were measured.

If he did the same with Haley, he wouldn't be having all the headaches he does right now.

I would hesitate to give the interim job to either coordinator. They both have a lot of work to do with their respective units.

I am in no way advocating making a switch at head coach, but there is a lot of noise. I would be disappointed, but not surprised, if a change was made. If so, I would have Saunders be the interim HC.

j/c:

It's not a matter of IF. It's a matter of WHEN.

I agree, you can never assume the game would "play out the same".

If we score the FG before the half would we have still gone on 4th and goal later in the game? A FG in that case would put us within one point instead of still needing a touchdown later to take the lead.

If we kick the FG before the half and the FG instead of going on 4th and goal - we're up by 6 (or 7) after our next TD. As the Bucs are driving late in the game, they're probably not driving with a game-winning FG (which they missed) in mind if they're down by 6 or 7, right?

Too many variables. As Lamp said, you can't determine which way the butterfly will go.

j/c:

I just hope the Haslams don't give in to all the "noise" that is being stirred up by the media and portion of the fan base. Every comment is being scrutinized and criticized by the aforementioned group. Each in-game situation that is debatable is used as ammunition against Hue. People point to a hot, young, aggressive coach like McVie when Hue doesn't go for it on 4th down and then say he is giving away points when he does go for it. They are manufacturing examples in order to pile on.

I am hopeful that Dee Haslam has brought a steadying influence to Berea. She understands the media and what they are doing. I think the team has become more stable and grounded since she has come on board.

I think this team is young and inexperienced. I think the talent has improved quite a bit in just one year. I think the coaching staff is a good one. I think the future is bright and that it would be a huge mistake to fire Hue or either coordinator.

I have maintained this from before the season started. This year is about two things.

1. Developing the young talent, and

2. Learning how to finish games.

If we can do that and not have yet another overhaul of the roster, next year should be a very successful year.

And then maybe we can get back to talking football instead of.."OMG, did you year what he said?!?!"

Really? ... u seriously think he’s all ready done? ...

U think he’s done that bad of a job this year? .. please elaborate ...

Why do u think he’s done ... i haven’t really paid attention to the Hue crap for a long long time ... i know whose on what side but i dont know the backround and how you’ve each arrived at your current stances so its a legite question ... not trying to stir the pot ... just trying to understand cause i don’t get it ...

We disagree and i’d Like toknow the reasons why u think its all ready a done deal he’s out the door ...

I’m with Vers on this one .. i think Hue deserves at least this year and with the fact were going young barring a meltdown by the team or Hue in his pressers I think he should get next year also ...

Just trying to understand why you think he’s all ready done not trying to cause a fight or stir the pot ...

Yes, I think he is done and essentially a 'dead man walking'. I think he was essentially done last year but Jimmy didn't want to be on the hook paying for two head coaches. That was speculated early on and subscribed to it. That, and the Haslems didn't want to look that bad after rolling the red carpet out for him and doing everyhing to get him to Berea. Bottom line-- He can't get this team over the hump, there are CLEAR issue between he, the coaches, AND the FO, and at some point the Haslems are going to cut ties, I just don't know when. I don't think any of the coaches will be here in 2019. Dorsey will hire HIS guy (and no, Hue was never his guy) and build the coaching staff from there. This constant throwing people under the bus and not taking responsibilty for just about everything isn't just in Cleveland. It happened in Oakland too. There is some very reliable information that the players are tuning him out already. And it's unfortuante for Hue that he has this stretch of tough games before the bye. Not sure he will survive past Week 11.

Diam, it's just a bad situation all around and it will end here shortly.