DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hue Jackson may take over Playcalling

I would take Jon Gruden over Hue any day of the week. The Broncos are 3-4, Vance has as many wins in 7 weeks as hue does in 2.5 years.

so pat shurmer. One coach in the NFL.....yeah so glad we have Hue.

He absolutely did. If you read that you would see he was asked later if he was going to take over playcalling, and he did not dispute that - meaning it was a possibility. The NEXT DAY, he backtracked - I would assume after Dorsey rip him a new one for throwing his OC under the bus.

Your the head coach of a football team, or the manager at McDonalds. If your team or crew is not living up to the standards they should be - that is a direct result and failure on YOU.

There is no excuse. The buck stops with the HC of the football team.

I agree that Duke needs to be more of a focus on offense. He never seems to drop a pass, he is dynamic running the ball in the open field.

But weren't we all saying the same thing last year? Wondering why Duke didn't touch the ball more ?

Just out of curiosity, if you hate people "bashing" or the correct vernacular talking about Hue Jackson, why do you keep coming into the two thread specifically about Hue Jackson and HIS comments? You have a thread that is about "tipping the hat" to JAckson and giving him credit....cool. This is a thread specifically about his comments. If you don't like his comments being taken and spoken about, call Hue and tell him to not make dumb butt comments.

And yet no one has posted any quotes where he takes 100% ownership of this team and its success (lack thereof). Folks pick and choose which quotes they use and make a mountain of of a mole hill.

I've heard Hue say 1000x that its his responsibility, he has to do better, etc etc.



There are a ton of coaches in the NFL that I don't see anything 'special' about them.

I think Hue is great with his players, and how he motivates them. Despite the horrid record, they still ball hard for him. they have NEVER given up on him, and continue to see the light at the end of the tunnel. To me, that is SPECIAL!

Yep, its called context and a pattern. It specifically relates to what he said and did here, years later. If you don't think that psychological make up of people and their personalities are a constant over time, then you should really start to look into that stuff. Its a good read.

People are habitual in nature, and we have patterns that are visible over time. Someone of Hue Jackson's age group, mindset, and lack of responsibility for his actions will never change. The quote from how many years ago, being similar in theory to what he did the other day, shows that he is incapable to take responsibility when it matters - and when the heat is on so to speak - he looks to blame others.

......you have to have success to have quotes of success.

Saying you take responsibility and TAKING responsibility are two different things. If he has had to say it 1000X, then he has not take the responsibility to correct it, no?

They didn't against the Chargers.

Hue is great with his players, that has got us what?

On the flip side, BB is a JA to his players and has how many SB's?

A nice personality doesn't win football games.

That's fair. And if things don't work out with Gruden and the Raiders, the team is in a really tough spot with that unprecedented 10 year/$100 million contract. I wonder if there are at least any team options or other unguaranteed money in there to mitigate some of that.. I don't know.

I think, but can be wrong, that the whole Gruden stuff is not being considered in its full picture.

I think Carr is the whole motivation for the Gruden actions.. Carr had/has problems in the locker room,specially with the mormon and religious fanaticism.

My take is that Gruden was hired by Oakland to build a team around Carr, but I could be wrong....

Baker Mayfield on Hue's postgame comments: "I think a lot of things are said postgame, emotionally. I think the thing around here is, we don't need to re-invent the wheel. We need to perfect our craft. We have what we have, we don't need to change too much."

https://twitter.com/KeithBritton86/status/1055123708413644800

I think Gruden - is quietly stockpiling draft picks (and ones thare going to be high at that) and is going to be investing a lot of draft capital into the Raiders here shortly, along with whatever cap space they can.

I know it looks weird right now, but don't count the evil one out yet. He may just have a plan up his sleeve.

^ It's called tuning out your head coach. He's not the only one.

I am not a Hue fan let alone an apologist but how do you get that from those comments?

I thought I posted this, but maybe not.

We should mix in some RPO and other "college type plays" that would help Baker get rid of the ball quickly. Not every play, obviously, but why not 10-15% of the plays. Some of these are pretty simple plays, yet are effective. I would rather see that than the pitch to the WR on a reverse sweep that loses 15 yards.

We run several RPOs a game.

JLC chiming in.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/only-...browns-offense/

another good point that no one is talking about - Hue is supposed to be a QB god or whisperer, yet until Haley got here, none of the Qbs he worked with ever showed any improvement.

Kizer got progressively worse.

RGIII was hurt ill give a pass.

Kessler got progressively worse.

In all the years that Jackson has been a coach, he has had 2 QBs that he can say were successful. Doesn't seem like a great track record.

Before that - QBs under Jackson

1. Patrick Ramsey started 11 games and was sacked 30 times before injury ended his season. He completed 53 percent of his passes for 2,166 yards, 14 touchdowns and nine interceptions.

The Redskins finished 5-11 and head coach Steve Spurrier resigned, forcing Jackson to find a new job

2. A lot of people want to attribute Carson Palmer, but Jackson was the WR coach when Palmer was in Cincy.

3. Joey Harrington, who had been signed to compete for a backup spot with Atlanta when Hue was there.

Harrington played in 11 games, starting 10. He completed 61 percent of his passes for 2,215 yards, seven touchdowns and eight interceptions. He was sacked 32 times as the team finished 4-12.

4. Much of Jackson’s reputation as a developer of quarterbacks can be traced to Flacco, who was drafted by the Ravens in 2008, the first of two seasons Jackson was quarterbacks coach.

Flacco completed more than 60 percent of his passes his first two seasons, throwing for 2,971 yards as a rookie, then having the first of six straight seasons with more than 3,600 yards. In 2008, Flacco became the first rookie quarterback to win multiple playoff games.

5. Once again, success as a position coach led to an offensive coordinator job for Jackson, who joined the Raiders in 2010. Campbell, who briefly lost his starting job to Bruce Gradkowski, threw for 2,387 yards, 13 touchdowns and eight interceptions in 12 games as the Raiders went 8-8. Head coach Tom Cable was fired, and Jackson was promoted to head coach.

In 2011, a collarbone injury ended Campbell’s season after Week 6. The Raiders traded for Carson Palmer, who started nine games and threw for 2,753 yards, 13 touchdowns and 16 interceptions.

6. Jackson rejoined the Bengals as a secondary coach in 2012 before moving to running backs, then offensive coordinator in 2014. Dalton didn’t have a great 2014. He completed 64 percent of his passes for 3,398 yards, but had 17 interceptions and an 83.5 QB rating.

Dalton turned things around in 2015, finishing the regular season with the NFL’s second-highest QB rating (106.3), completing 66 percent of his passes for 3,250 yards, 25 touchdowns and seven interceptions before a Week 13 injury ended his season.

Our rookie QB showing more leadership and emotional maturity than Hue who is showing signs of being in panic mode.....again.

Hue Jackson on his involvement with offense this week: "I've just been being me. Looking at things, getting a real good feel for how we're doing things. Continue to grind on the little things as we continue to move forward. I've done everything I normally do."

https://twitter.com/KeithBritton86/status/1055175132300349441

On Sunday, Hue is letting everyone within earshot know he is the coach and he has every right to inject himself into the offense. Bottom line he is the head coach! Especially, when he sees the way things aren't going how they should in his opinion.

On Monday, Hue walks back his comments about injecting himself into the offense and says he'll be happy to help Haley in anyway he can if asked to help.

Today, Hue says he's done nothing different than he normally does and today he's getting a good feel of "how we're doing things."

Oh, for good measure, Hue says they have to figure out a way to get Duke more involved. Something he says every week without change.

Keith Britton Verified account
@KeithBritton86
#Browns Hue Jackson on getting Duke Johnson more touches: "I think Duke, obviously, is one of our better players. Has had a heck of a career here. We just gotta continue to find ways and different options for him."

Tweet

"Get Duke more involved" is the new "We've got to run the ball more".

Jackson said of Duke Johnson, who had one carry and 4 targets: "Trust me. We're always trying to find ways to get him the ball.''

I haven't seen many that I can remember. I have seen a ton of Baker in the shotgun, or Baker dropping back, but I haven't seen a lot of motion/RPO from him.

We have thrown a bunch to Njoku and Landry.

Baker went on to say more. He said we need to take points when we can take points. A clear shot at Hue for not kicking the field goal at the end of the half.

I think the team senses that Hue is done. But that is just my opinion. I know some will disagree. It's all just opinion.

That press conference was panic mode by the coach and his rookie QB called him on it. He called him on not taking 3 points. Those three points who have come in handy at the end of the 4th qtr.

the only RPO i can recall is that quick hitter to Njoku (we've done this semi-frequently)

Thanks 'peen
Those added quotes make Memphis' comment make a little more sense. Not quite sure I would go into "tuning the HC out" but I can see how he got there

The Oft. narrative, Team played hard!
Ere go, they didn't give up on the coach!
= coach did good because team played hard.

(We all want to have it both ways,)


As if the team or players can't give top effort without checking in with the coach first;
and or if they do it's only because of the coach.

Good point. Custer's men fought hard for him too, all the way to Little Big Horn.

After a 1st & 10 incompletion, the NFL avg is 65% pass on 2nd & 10. Here are the least logical teams after a 1st & 10 incompletion:
85% SEA (runs=18% success)
82% HOU (run=14% success)
62% CLE (runs=6% success)

(note: I eliminated 2 min drills)


After a 2nd & long comp that sets up 3rd & short, NFL avg is to go 57% pass on 3rd & short (no 2 min drill)

Success rate on runs is 70% vs 48% for passes.

Only 3 tms have gone 100% pass:
•MIN (8 passes, 63% success)
•CIN (4 passes, 75% success)
•CLE (5 passes, 20% success)


After a 1st down sack, the NFL avg is to go pass on 2nd down 67% of the time.

Only 1 team runs more than 40% of the time on 2nd down after a 1st down sack.*

The Browns have gone run 75% of the time.

*min 5 plays in sample, eliminates 2 minute drills

✅ Run a ton after a 1st & 10 incompletion
✅ Run a ton after a 1st & 10 sack
✅ Pass 100% of the time on 3rd & short after a nice throw on 2nd & long

Small samples, but miserably wrong tendencies which are way opposite NFL avg, and some of the reasons the Browns are struggling.

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1055311408072704000

I thought those were interesting stats...

Haley needs to see this.

I agree with the first part of this wholeheartedly. The second part possibly.

Where you see a team going against the odds, I actually see a pattern here.

I see a OC that knows what he is doing, where he wants to go. Haley is an attrition OC, he wants to pound the D to get an advantage later in the game.

He's an OC which is used to winning, and consequently knows that most games are won on the 4th quarter. He has a rookie QB with limited weapons, running the ball makes the most sense, specially when you know that most probably that series only is going to have 3 plays.

Haley is sticking to his plan, and IMHO, it has been working. We have been in a position to win more games than to lose them, and that's the sign of a good Coordinator.

Now he just has to convince GW of the same, and stop taking so many risks in the first half of games and giving up so many points....

J/C

FYI I live and work in the Pittsburgh market. The local beat guys here are just joking all week long:

Hue is clueless
Talking that their is a rift between Haley and Hue
Saying Baker thinks hue is aloof because of his comments
Saying that the team is once again a mess - and how they cant understand how a team would keep this going on like this and haven't promoted Haley and fired Hue.

This is an outside source - saying everything we are seeing. A source with no "agenda" as some people say there is against Hue.

Nobody outside of the Browns bubble understands why Hue still has the job. It doesn’t make sense.

That statement runs so counter to itself that I'm left scratching my head.



Aside from that, the reason the Browns are struggling isn't the choices of run vs pass - it is the players not executing the plays being called.

Help! My koolaid is wearing off and I have misplaced my vision of the future soon Browns. Is the bye week a realistic metric for a gut check? We are a work in progress. But I am not sure we are gaining much ground.

I'll try to make the best sense of it I can. A lot of this is my own personal intuition, from reading between the lines and thinking things through. You probably won't find it in the media anywhere.

Back in 2016, Hue Jackson was a big name and fairly in-demand. Now, it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, I wasn't actually there to interview Jackson or the other candidates, and I don't know what other teams thought of him.

Dalton and the Bengals were coming off a couple good seasons, and there was a lot of buzz about Jackson being a 'QB whisperer'. He leveraged this into a very large contract. Some reports suggested 5-6 years with a lot of money involved, in the mold of what Kyle Shanahan got with the 49ers.

Enter Sashi Brown. The Brown/Jackson pairing was doomed from the start for a variety of reasons. For starters, you really need to have the coaching staff and front office on the same page. What we had, in practice, were polar opposites-- pure old school football versus new age analytics.

I really believe there is room for both. The problem with Sashi was that he didn't have a football background. The analytics guy has to have a football background, the thinking ideally should take place in the same brain. When it's a split between front office/coaching staff, that just doesn't work.

In addition to this, the NFL has been notoriously slow to adapt in many respects. Case in point: it is still standard to punt on 4th and 1. I'm sure you've seen all the data that shows that teams are leaving an edge on the field, yet 32 out of 32 teams still default to it. Things get even more dicey in the team building/player acquisition process-- far more complicated subjects that analytics (or at least Sashi's brand of analytics) just weren't ready for.

In some ways, deep down, I think there was a backlash in the league against Sashi because some of his ideas actually had merit. I'm sure Haslam consulted many advisors who told him he was the problem, and clearly he did not build a great football team. Add in the aforementioned contract with 3+ years left for Hue and it was a no brainer-- Sashi was gone and Hue was going to stay.

I'm sure Dorsey sees all this. I bet that it was a requirement (implicit or explicit) to keep Hue in order for Dorsey to get the job. I think the plan the whole way was for Dorsey to take a year to evaluate the situation and go from there. Could Hue win with a better team? (I don't mean win as in win 5 games.. I mean win the AFC North or at least challenge for a playoff spot.)

If not, then time would give us more clarity there. The buyout would be a little more palatable for Haslam. We'd greatly upgrade the talent and show that we'll give a guy the third year, no matter how bad the first two were. This would suggest we could land a better coach than we would have been able to last off-season.

Now we're in the middle of the season. Jackson is on the hot seat and anybody who thinks differently is fooling themselves. Things can always turn around. If we start winning some games, a lot of this becomes moot. If we don't turn it around, it's only a matter of when.