DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Really Matters

Well, at this point we've wasted just as much time discussing whether we should discuss him or not. You can talk about whatever you want, the internet is a playground.

The OP and others asked if people would stay on topic because EVERY THREAD talks about Hue, and those with an agenda won't leave a single one alone. It gets old when those that care about the subject at hand are subjected to Hue bashing and arguing in every thread we click on.

I think that anyone that posts a new thread should be given some liberty as to what they want to discuss. It's just being polite, you know, like holding the door for someone when they're following you into a store. It's not like there is ever a limited supply of specific Hue threads, or others that are hijacked. It's kinda like walking into that same store, that sells shoes, and pestering the help for good deals on surf boards. Doesn't really make sense and gives everyone a headache.

Rasta....
If Hue would have won 5-6 games the last 2 years would your stance change?

I agree that Hue has not been perfect, no coach is.
But, if you can not admit that the deck was stacked against him the previous 2 years I believe you are being closed minded and come off as having a personal agenda against Hue.

I agree that Vers' continued harping on Hue haters is sometimes over the top, but I think it goes both ways.

I do not feel it is fair to judge Hue based on the past 2 years, because it looked as if Sashi was all in on throwing the last 2 years to have great draft picks as well as purge the roster of solid veterans who cost too much. It was a total rebuild like no other as far as the NFL goes. But it served its purpose of accumulating multiple high draft picks and clearing cap room. Sashi nailed it. So well that it cost him his job. Not to mention Holmgrem, Savage and Farmer whiffed on 80% of the draft picks leading up to the rebuild.

If you and other Hue haters are taking that into consideration and are still hating on him, I don't think it is fair.

I think Hue should get the blame for the TB lost. You have to take the points at the end of the half. BUT.... I know why he did what he did, but I don't agree with it. Other than that, I feel he has done a very good job this season.

I know it is just an excuse that the referees have really made some of the worst calls or non calls that I have ever seen the last few weeks and that we should have been beating our opponents bad enough that we should have still overcome, but come on...... There is no doubt in my mind that 85%-90% of the 50/50 calls go against the Browns. And it has been that way for a long time.

The penalties are horrendous, and have been for as long as we have been the youngest team in the NFL, SHOCKING!!!!!!!

As has been said, we are moving in the right direction, At the end of the year if this team does not have 5-6 wins I truly believe Dorsey and Haslem will look very hard at the HC position. But not giving Hue a chance as many of you have been calling for his head since 2016 is wrong. Let this season play out. We are in stage 2 of the process. As in we are competitive. Hopefully by the end of the year we are close to step 4 a playoff team. You have to crawl before you walk/ cant put the cart before the horse blah blah blah.

I think we should keep an open mind and let the season play out. I agree with some points the Hue haters make, and I do feel that Vers pokes the bear too often. But I agree with what Vers says a lot, I just don't think he needs to have a rebut post every time a negative Hue post pops up.

As has been said, most negative posts on this forum are a direct result of a franchise that has been inept for far too long. Winning is close and this forum will be much different in 2 years.

I agree,

yet the OP mentioned hue.

the title of the thread states "what really matters"

If you don't think mentioning Hue into the THREAD, then asking what matters on this football team, and don't think the HC matters - well that says a lot about your HC doesn't it?

I don't see anyone talking about hue in the majority of the threads actually. I see Amari Cooper, the oline, etc etc. This thread and the OP originally mentioned what matters, and originally put Hue as a topic of that. ITs going to be discussed.

That's the equivalent of starting a thread about Corvettes, and but say "now no one bring up Chevy!"

It's not a problem "mentioning Hue in a thread". It's infusing into every thread on this board.

Cool, except I am currently posting in three other threads right now where he has not been mention....soooo your just factually incorrect.

This thread specifically mentioned Hue. FACT

This thread specifically is about WHAT MATTTERS - FACT

The HC of a football MATTERS - FACT

Hey one more thread trashed. At this point I've lost count.

Only once you arrived, sir.

lmao

This was started way before I got here. Try actually reading a thread before making comments that make no sense next time. lmao

Pitt post "Try reading a thread" in a thread that specifically mentioned Hue after he said "why are you talking about hue"

You have to admit, watching some melt down over the coaches name being mentioned in a 'what really matters" thread is hilarious.

We just recognize hatred and being obsessed as it infests the board.

Like int P.P.? Got it.

To hopefully steer things back on track:
No matter what else folks have to say, What Really Matters is there are a LOT of positives for this season. Regardless of the outcomes of individual games, the players are continuing to play hard to the end of every game (except maybe that Chargers beatdown) and we're in EVERY game! With all of this newness and youth and inexperience, we in EVERY GAME.

I was once quoted on here as saying "we have a dangerous mix of youth, inexperience, and inability." Well, the inability has largely been erased from this roster and the youth is getting experience and learning.

This team -as is - is getting ready to turn the corner.

oh that is rich. especially from the source.

I was with my original post that people started crying about. I was explaining as to why my post is and was on topic.

But lets get back to the thread:

What Really Matters:

Wins.

We don't have many. Its up to Dorsey to find out how to change that. I believe he will.

Coaches coach.. sure. They may not be making the tackles themselves but they sure are teaching players how to tackle. Or maybe they are recruiting and working with other coaches, who in turn teach the players the fundamentals.

The head coach is responsible for the play on the field.

Coaching is their career. They put 80, 90, or 100 hours a week into this (or so they say). Many have been coaching for 20-30 years or longer, not including their own time as players. That is plenty of time to acquire a wide array if skills and knowledge about the game that can be passed onto others.

Ideally, a head coach would be able to coach all phases of the game. I know it doesn't always work like that in practice, coaches differ in experience and expertise and there are differing organizational structures.

If a coach is just meant to be a glorified secretary and a face for the media, then he is no head coach at all.

I'm not sure if you're talking about his time in Cleveland or New England, but Belichick won the Super Bowl in his second season with the Patriots and 3 of the first 5 seasons for that matter. Even that 5-11 his first season, while not great, is still more wins than all... oh nevermind.

I appreciate that you tried, but I don't think it worked. LOL

I want to say this one more time. I think it is perfectly fine to mention Hue in a thread like this, but the problem is that we have posters who don't talk about everything else worth talking about and only concentrate on Hue.

It becomes ALL about Hue. That is far different than just discussing him while also discussing ownership, Dorsey, the qb, edge rusher, corner, youth, cap space, etc.

I talked about self-policing the board a couple of weeks ago. I didn't get much positive feedback. Think about it, when we have posters trying to hijack a thread like this, wouldn't it be a good idea for a lot of other posters to simply ignore them and talk about the subject at hand?

We actually have a lot of good posters on this site. Much better than any other Brown's site I've been to. However, a lot of them quit posting when things take a turn like they did on this thread.

I think this board needs you guys to step up and contribute to the discussions and maybe we can drown out those who try to ruin all of the threads that are similar to this one.

My $0.02

Would you consider me one of the ones who ruin all the threads? It's an honest question. You're speaking in generalities so I don't know if you're talking about me, rasta, willi, or anyone else.

I've tried to talk about general coaching philosophies in this thread, though a few cracks about Hue have slipped in. Tell you what, I'll take credit (err.. blame) for ruining this thread. You can't hold the Hue threads against me though because that's what those threads are for. Also, we should keep track of how many threads everybody ruins across the site.


Amusingly enough, I actually have talked about all these things.

- The Haslams haven't anything too wild lately, which is nice.

- We all seem to agree that Dorsey has done a good job adding players. Mayfield, Ward, Chubb, Avery, the list goes on. I'm pumped for this, and we actually have some extra picks in the next draft as well.

- Mayfield, edge rusher (assuming you mean Garrett but Avery looks to be a great find), Ward, these are all regular topics of conversation and not all of them are derailed by Hue, lol. Check out the Film room thread I made, or various posts from PFF, football outsiders, and a few of my own personal observations about these and other players.

- Youth: we've talked about this a few times. The NFL has many mechanisms to allow bad teams to get better quickly. A lot of this is the giving losing teams preferential draft order and allowing them to sign premier young talent to 4-5 year deals. The Browns could be very good, very soon for this reason.. how many teams have a top-tier QB, edge rusher, and corner all on rookie deals... not many, that's for sure.

- Cap space: excellent topic. I did not realize this but the Browns actually have the most cap space of any team in the league (courtesy of being able to roll over chunks of it from year to year): https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

and Browns-specific details: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns/

See, it's not all so bad here!

bonefish, I agree that the team is making progress.

We didn't win a game last year. This year, we've won two and tied another. We have been in 4 OT games [thanks Cap.]

The team is young and inexperienced. They don't have a lot of continuity, especially on the offensive side of the ball. I've said this over and over and over, but this year is about two things:

1. Developing the young talent. [We are doing that.]

2. Learning how to finish games. [This is a work in progress.] I always maintained that this was going to be difficult because our previous regime blew things up so drastically, that we were guaranteed to lose a ton of games. It's hard for a team to overcome that.

Dorsey did a great job in his first year. We can expect him to continue to do everything he can to continue to improve the roster.

So, if you were the Browns, which units on the team do you think we should really try to improve after the season, whether it be the draft, free agency, or trades?

It's early, but I am thinking:

WR. We need a dynamic, deep threat.

CB: We're okay here, but you need a ton of them in today's game.

S: I don't think we'll do much here, but I would like another guy back there that is good against the pass.

RT: Hubbard is okay, but an upgrade would be nice. I would like to keep him on the roster because he can play inside and outside.

K: This is a big one.

DT: We need a run stuffer. I would be willing to pay big bucks for a stud DT who can play the run and rush the passer. I know people hate him, but I wish we would have gotten Sue.

QB: I'd like to see a different backup here. I don't think Tyrod is embracing the mentoring role.

What do you guys think about that? Anything else?

I think that's a great post...and posts like that make for a good board and a learning tool for people.

This post has knowledge..insight..no mention of any one else your opinion and just great football talk.

Damn I wish it could be like this all the time...

Thanks Deisle.

What do I think about that?

You mentioned 2 things, and

1. This year is about 2 things... developing, and learning how to..

No. This year and every year is about winning the division, and if not winning the Super Bowl at least win a playoff game where you can send another team home. (can't reach that goal every year, but it still needs to be the focus, and goal.)

2. Which units should the Browns try to improve...
4 words.

"Keep the team together."

Constant cutting of veterans and changeover has been a dumpster fire.

Why is nobody else challenging this.
your point 1. Ehh! No evidence, it's unclear his ability to develop talent, and it's others' job to spot it.

Your point 2. is a personal attack and has little to do with his ability to coach

your point 3 is the only point you have, and even that isn't a complete lack of ability as you say,

I think it's seeing the same thing over and over

The stategy is not easily visible
The identity is not easy to pin down
Game plans and game management are consistently enough to come in a close 2nd,
except for the days when it's not close.

But the Browns aren't getting shut out and trainwrecked a lot, even including the last 2 years.
And I think 2016, was a more clear example of what I'm talking about than 2017,
and 2017 could have been put on the instability of Kiser at QB.

I mean, if, !
If they only needed a couple wins last year, Kessler could have provided that,
but they reached for more with Kizer and fell into epic turnovers.

But Hue's consistent, (almost), gameplan requires the Browns are +3 or +4 in the turnover ratio to be competitive in games.

Can’t speak for anyone else, but I am not because I put him on ignore months ago. It’s been great.

A point of order here. If someone is critical of Hue’s job performance, it does not make them a “hater”. If they critique a call or decision, it does not make them a Hue “basher”. This is an anonymous internet forum, there are no “agendas”. Nothing said here will affect ANYTHING the Browns do, say, think, believe, etc. People need to stop with the dramatics.

Thanks for staying on topic.

Not sure were ready to go strictly BPA ... we have some glaring NEEDS IMO ... not in any particular order ....

- RT ... Hubbard STINKS IMO ... not sure he’s an upgrade from Coleman much less being competent there ...

- WR ... we need a compliment to Vice Grips .. love Higgins but he’s not the compliment we need ... we need a burner to take the top off ... no faith Callaway will ever be that ... if ones around in the draft or /fa IMP we need to go grab them ... if Callaway pans out we have a good problem ...

- a LBer to take Collins place ...

Hmmm ... other than that we need depth everywhere ... not as many glaring holes as i thought ...

We really need a RT IMO ...

Why would i challenge that ... it doesn’t deserve a response much less a challenge .. I have NO CLUE why ANYONE EVER responds to him ...

His posts aren’t worth the time it takes to read them and u have posters that debate with him on a daily basis banging there heads against the wall the entire time ... its quite amusing bro ... *L* ..

I dont even read hos posts anymore ... i just read the responses to *L* at how frustrated they are with him yet they keep replying .... its like getting on the ride that has made u puke the last 27 times and thinking the 28th time will turn out any different ....

Whats your take on Hubbards play this year ... do u think i am being to harsh on him?

You didn't ask me, but I see him as having been extremely up and down. He has had some good stretches, and some pretty bad stretches.

I do think that he either needs to add strength, or use his strength better, I am not sure which. Sometimes he keeps a good base, and other times he really has to try and get his feet reset quickly. He still reaches a fair mount. There is some good, and then some bad. We'l see how he does the rest of this season. There are potentially a lot of pretty solid Tackles in the coming draft.

It's really early...and of course alot will differ...

DT Malcolm Brown...Man if the Pat's let him go, we need to grab him...superb run stuffer with pressure skills as well...would give us the most dominant line we ever assembled.

LB Denzyl Perrymen...Replaces Jamie Collins...and is the opposite of Collins...plays hard, hits hard, and is instinctual.

WR Golden Tate...Not a whole lot out there, while Tate is somewhat similar to Landry...he is faster and stronger after the catch...something we need...perhaps John Brown (vert threat)

Draft I would go

1.OT
2.WR
3.DE/OLB pass rusher
3.CB
4.C

Utilize rest of picks for special teams (which can use it) and depth

I'd be a fan of drafting both OL and WR very early ... luckily, I think there will be good prospects at each position

1-Pete Carroll, Bill Belichick, Paul Brown, Parcells etc, etc. All the great coaches had a knack for spotting gem players and develop them. That's a big part of what makes a coach special.

2 - A coach is a leader first, you stand by your own no matter what. And by the way its not a personal attack, it would be personal if I was making stuff up. The list of people he has blamed his gigantic, and growing. The list of excuses for his failures has no parallel in sports.

3- Please elaborate, tell me what in your opinion is the identity of the team after 2,5 seasons?

Diam's first statement would be my response as well. Personally, I wouldn't have elaborated further. :-p

The only point that even approaches reality out of his 3 (imo) is the second one. I'm not a fan of how Hue seems to shirk accountability, because that reverberates down the chain to the players. Lack of accountability is the last thing we need to build a winning team/culture. Accountability is most critical right now, when we have the young talent that will turn the corner for us.

The other 2 points are only good for a chuckle.

Sounds Ike you haven’t made a final decision yet but u may be leaning towards the “bad stretches” slightly out weighing the “good” ones ... is that about right or no?

Thanks for sharing ...

I said this about him in my earlier post.



Not sure if people know this, but he spent a lot of time inside at Pittsburgh.