DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Time for Hue to go!

some weeks in the NFL...teams win because of better talent no matter who the coach is across the field.
sometimes its the proper execution of the gameplan
some win cause their coach with assistants devised a brillant game plan starting on Monday.
so at this point you have to ask yourself...
what is the catalyst for the 36 losses in 3 years.?
if Hue is fired it probally will be done right after a week 17 meaningless win.
losing is taking a toll on Hue combined with losing 2 family members.
firing him now you bring in a lame duck candidate for half a season.
nothing gained in that.
I think Hue to retain his job he has to go 6-2.

I think if he finishes 4-4 over last 8 with a win over Bengals he will be kept. Remember most people predicted 5-11 or 6-10 at BEST for the Browns this year.

I still fall on the side of keeping Hue. I feel if we let him go now we will have to reboot everything yet again. If we give him more time he might be able to turn things around. If he doesn't than nothing is lost, we will still be resetting with a new coach.

The only thing that might make a difference is if we were to keep Haley or Williams as coach and he agrees to keep the other in their position. The thing is I don't want either running my team. Do any of you?

I have long been a proponent of keeping Hue.

I do admit to some concerns though.

I suppose we probably need a good showing against KC, which will be difficult, or at least against Atlanta, and if we don't, I would guess that there will probably be changes.

*Sigh* I hate starting over, because it's just continued to get worse as we have done so over the past decade or so.

My BIG, BIG concern is NOT our record ... it's the fact that our only HOPE (Baker) is now AT SERIOUS RISK of being ruined.

THAT is the cardinal sin for this franchise.

NO ... not yet ...

I think they should stick with Hue until the end of the season. It really is not to our benefit to make changes now. ( I don’t typically buy into the “ruining QBs theory. From an injury standpoint , yes but from a psychological one, no. Either he can play the position at this level or he can’t.)

That being said, if someone has to go, it should be Hue leaving instead of Haley. Not sure what is going on there. Question, how much influence does the HC have on how the OC calls a game? Could Hue be influencing the offensive game plan in a negative way?

The guy telling people to stay the course with Hue was literally leading the charge calling for Sashi's job after just 18 months.

You can't make this stuff up!

I honestly don't know what to do, who to fire, who to keep, etc.

If I'm the decision maker, I literally think about one thing: what's the best way to get Baker ready for next year?

The thief has done the right thing in the past in that he’s FIRED people that NEVER DESERVED TO BE HIRED ...

This time he may have made a GOOD HIRE ... I hope the thief has the fortitude and BRAINS to stay the course ... let this play out ...

If the underlying tension the press speaks of is there it will work itself out ... one way or the other ...

Thats my only REAL CONCERN ... for now ... that and MG talking out of turn ... not a fan of that at all ...

The thief needs to stay the course ... he needs to let it play out ...

Question is .. is he stupid enough to nip this hire in the bud ... nipping ALL his past hires in the bud were not pre-mature firings ... he MAY NOT HAVE MESSED THIS HIRE UP ... i sure hope he lets it play out for at least the rest of this year ...

The bye can’t get here quick enough .. we need some guys back ... Higgins and Shobert sure would help right about now .. we need some kind of boost ..

This team is simply OVERWHELMED right now and next weeks not gonna be pretty ether ...

I really wish we could just skip to th bye ... WE NEED IT RIGHT NOW ...

I am not big on firing people mid season unless keeping them causes distractions. We might be at that point. So unless the staff can get it worked out, the bye week might be a good time to make a change. And the change may not be Hue.

I was reading somewhere to fire Haley and let Hue run his offense. It's to late to do that. Hue would have to run the Haley playbook.

Also, if Hue is dismissed mid season, one of Haley or Williams would become the head guy the rest of the way. Dorsey would start sending out feelers and forming a short list of candidates. The actual hiring of a new head coach wouldn't be until after the playoffs.

Browns' coaching friction with Hue Jackson and Todd Haley started with 'Hard Knocks'

Charles Robinson
NFL columnist
Yahoo SportsOct 28, 2018, 9:20 PM

https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-coaching...-012039579.html

The latest seeds of dysfunction took root on the Cleveland Browns’ structure after Todd Haley’s hire as offensive coordinator last January. The agreement was simple: Head coach Hue Jackson would be the CEO of the staff, but Haley would be the head of the offense and have the latitude to run the unit as he pleased.

Looking back, Jackson not only agreed to this – he personally pursued Haley to be on his staff. All the while, Jackson had the mindset that if he needed to place the offense in Haley’s hands to get the hire done, he was willing to agree to it.

Then came HBO’s “Hard Knocks.” A buzzy Hollywood production that occasionally framed Jackson as the beta coach to the alpha mentality of Haley and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. According to multiple sources who have spoken to Yahoo Sports about recent friction on the Browns coaching staff, some of the seeds were planted during “Hard Knocks” – most notably, the notion of how much Haley is willing to listen to Jackson’s input when it comes to the current state of a struggling offense.

Jackson believes his job is on the line this season and is becoming less willing to abide by the “hands-off” agreement with Haley, sources told Yahoo Sports – particularly as it pertains to some of the offensive preparation and scheming.

Jackson is feeling the pressure to win. Now Haley is feeling the pressure to listen. If something doesn’t bridge those two realities, everyone on the coaching staff is going to end up getting fired. Again.

Jackson “doesn’t think Todd is listening to him when it comes to his thoughts [on the offense],” one source said. “It’s been going on for a little while now. [Hue is] frustrated. He just wants to fix some things. He wants to know Todd is taking him seriously when he says something about the offense and he doesn’t think that’s the case right now.”

After Sunday’s 33-18 defeat to the Pittsburgh Steelers, Jackson denied wanting to take over Haley’s play-calling duties, despite totaling only 237 yards of offense in the loss.

“There’s nothing wrong with my relationship with Haley,” Jackson said. “I said what I said last week [about wanting to be more involved in the offense] and obviously it had legs. But I’ve never said I wanted to take over play-calling. I said I wanted to help. That’s it. So today, now all the sudden it’s this big, old thing. Because, sure, everybody is going to look and say ‘What’s going on?’ But the only thing that’s going on is we need to get better. We need to coach better. We need to get better.”

In typical fashion with the Browns, the behind-the-scenes picture described by sources is anything but simple. It’s a complicated tangle of personalities, agreements, apprehension and power – all apparently resting in the hands of team owner Jimmy Haslam, who has been reticent to repeat some of his past knee-jerk decisions with his team. Particularly in a season where the franchise has been competitive for much of this 2-5-1 season.


Here’s how ‘Hard Knocks’ played role in friction

Jackson apparently was irritated with some of the perceptions created by the editing of the “Hard Knocks” series. Chief among them was how his coaching style was portrayed against the demonstrative barking storylines of Haley and Williams, who were often framed as the salty counterparts to Jackson’s somewhat less-profane (on TV, anyway) brand of leadership.

One moment in particular was recalled by multiple sources: a disagreement Jackson had in a meeting with Haley and running backs coach Freddie Kitchens (who has a close relationship with Haley), over the resting of players. During that incident, Jackson shut down Haley and Kitchens, who disagreed with resting players to avoid injuries in practice. Jackson then punctuated his authority in the decision, closing the debate by stating “[At] the end of the day, I get to drive this bus, and I’m going to get it the way I want it. That’s it. Period. That’s just how it works.”

The sources pointed to that challenge from Haley and Kitchens as being part of the root behind Jackson repeatedly asserting to the media that he was the “head coach” following a 26-23 overtime loss to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on Oct. 21. It was the same news conference Jackson said he needed to be more involved in the offense. The message was essentially being the same one Jackson delivered to Haley and Kitchens back in August – if he thinks something needs to be done a certain way, he’s going to make it happen. And that includes how the offense is being run.

But that’s where some of the details of the Haley hiring get interesting. Sources told Yahoo Sports that Haley was told explicitly during the recruiting process he would have control of the offense. So much so that it was framed as a precondition of him taking the job – that Haley wouldn’t have to be looking over his shoulder if the offense struggled early in the season. The sources said this was something agreed upon by both Jackson and Haslam, and that Jackson likely couldn’t take over control of the offense without getting a green light from ownership. All of which might explain the difference between Jackson wanting “input” versus Jackson wanting “control.”



Where are GM John Dorsey and owner Jimmy Haslam on this?

All of this leaves what is likely the most important question for the future of the Browns: What role can general manager John Dorsey and Haslam play in sorting this out? Unless the answer is simply firing the entire coaching staff at the end of the season, the response to that question is complicated.

Given the failure in the past two seasons, Jackson believes his job is on the line and wants the offense fixed before another losing streak ends up getting him fired. But Jackson can’t simply take back control of the offense without an offensive coaching shakeup, a move that can only happen with Haslam’s approval. An approval that sources say Haslam is unlikely to give, as it would yet trigger another familiar spiral of fired coaches and a deviation from the patient plan the franchise has been selling since last offseason.

Haslam isn’t in a hurry to fire anyone or create chaos on the coaching staff in the middle of the season. And Dorsey won’t become more of a factor in this whole affair until Haslam signals he’s ready for major changes. As it stands, sources say Haslam is leaning heavily on Dorsey to keep him in the loop when it comes to what exactly is going wrong. It also stands to reason that as a new general manager hire, Dorsey would eventually want his own head coach in place.

However, even that has a twist to it. Sources have said until this point, Dorsey and Jackson have gotten along. Dorsey spent time at Jackson’s home during his interview process for the general manager job and those beginnings have helped keep the pair on the same page through the early growing pains on the field. But the losses and the need to push along the progress of quarterback Baker Mayfield also put stress across the entire organization, including the relationship between Dorsey and Jackson – and Jackson and Haley.

That kind of pressure is familiar for this organization and this owner. It puts Cleveland in the same place it always seems to be – with the ultimate call in the hands of Haslam and a lot of jobs hanging on what happens in the coming weeks. Regardless of who is listening to who and what happens to the offense, the bottom line of the ledger remains simple for both Jackson and Haley.

Whatever their problems, they need to resolve them soon or it’s likely nobody on this coaching staff will be in Cleveland next season.

I think many people saw this as the case. But people desperately tried to tell us differently.

This is a complete and utter mess and so many people are responsible. From Haslem all the way down. Hue, Haley as well. There are tons of questions that need to be address and discussed for long-term sustainability but the easiest decision to make has already been determined:

Hue will be fired.

It may not be this week, the bye week, and or any week this season. But he will not be the head coach in 2019. There are just too many recurring issues that always lead to him. And I'm not even talking about the game day stuff. Poor leadership, poor communication (internal/external), and frankly he just comes across as a dope. Always has. I'm guessing Haley and Gregggg will be gone next year too and Dorsey will be given full control to pick his HC, something he did not have this year, despite what people on here tried to shove down your throat.

Every immediate question should be centered around how do we NOT mess up Baker Mayfield in all of the change forthcoming. Do we fire Hue now and promote Haley to interim status? Do we just continue to let Hue be a "dead man walking" until the end of the season to try and keep together as much semblance of a coaching staff as possible? Fire Haley now and just put together what offense Hue can piece together? Whatever is in the best interest for Mayfield through the end of this ordeal in the minds of the leadership will be the course of action.

Haslems, once again, are at thr forefront of the abomination that is the Cleveland Browns. Good luck with the Crew, City of Columbus.

I don't care who the coach is as long as we win. But those advocating keeping Hue answer this. Is it keeping Hue for the sake of keeping the HC despite his worst in nfl history record, or is it because he's shown you he's something special. I'm more on the cut bait and move on wagon just because I believe theres nothing special about him and haven't seen that at any point of his coaching career. I get he's a great players coach and they love him. He seems like he genuinely cares about them. I always say this about players coaches, if you like that coach so much, maybe you should have played harder for him. I will say for the most part they play hard for him. I just think systematically we are broken. Too many chiefs and not enough indians. We got players talking to the media and questioning coordinators, HC throwing coordinators under the bus. Whatever this is in Cleveland isn't working. 3-37 isn't working

We finally have a QB that seems to have something special. We all pretty much agree.

We finally have some youth that has some talent - we pretty much all agree.

Do we want to leave their development in the hands of this joke of a HC?

Haslam will come out and say no changes during the season. They have to put this to bed.

We wanted ‘em to fire Hue,
But instead they got rid of Lue.
He was replaced for now by Mr. Drew,
Who doesn’t seem sure just what he wants to do.
We’ve been Hue’d, Lue’d, and Drew’d,
But mostly Cleveland, we’ve been screwed.
#browns⁠ ⁠ #cavs

https://twitter.com/nwengerd21/status/1056725514159878149

I honestly don't know if it's Hue who is doing the damage.

Not a 100 percent sure here. Doesn't Hue believe Baker needs to play faster, More no huddle more hurry up Slants read options to help with the deep throws ?

Where Haley is relying on more of a traditional drop back system. Doesn't that have Baker holding onto the ball longer ? Isn't that what is leading to Baker taking all the sacks ?

I think Hue and Haley need to get on the same page in order for this to work out.

I like Hues idea on how to use Baker.. More than I do Haleys.

The key players are Baker and Haley. If these two guys are on the same page and are allowed to work together going forward then the Browns have a chance. Haley has almost NOTHING to work with. Honestly, the Browns need to make sure Baker doesn't get killed this season. The Browns are already better than the last two years combined. Let's see what Dorsey adds to the team. This team isn't going anywhere this year. I'm OK with it as long Baker and Haley stay together. Hue adds nothing to this team. He is a loser plain and simple. He is not a leader of young men. He is not a motivator. Baker and Haley are the keys to the future. JMO

Here’s a streak Cleveland would like to snap after Sunday’s loss to Pittsburgh: The last five Browns⁠’ head coaches - Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rod Chudzinski, Mike Pettine - were fired after the second Steelers’ game of that season.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1056907553370705920



Keep the streak alive

I think this is a bit of a disingenuous tweet from Schefter. It's not like Cleveland playsPittsburgh for the second time in the middle of the season. In fact, it's usually the last game. Weren't all of the above coaches simply fired at the end of the season?

We already are the laughing stock of the NFL. Our head coach had to jump in the lake because he did the (almost) impossible and followed a 1-15 season with 0-16.

Then we brought that coach back.

Who do we replace Hue with? First let me ask, is there ever a good candidate to replace a head coach with in the middle of the season? Usually that doesn't happen because anybody so great would be a head coach in the first place.

But yeah, there are basically two options:

Todd Haley - Long history of actual success as an offensive coordinator. As a head coach, won the AFC West in his second season, with Matt Cassel as his quarterback. Involved in some friction with Hue (unclear whether this is a negative for Haley or the inevitable result of working with Hue). His side of the ball is struggling, but it is a young unit with less investment there.

Gregg Williams - Another former head coach. Won a Super Bowl in New Orleans as defensive coordinator, albeit one that carries some baggage due to the BountyGate scandal which might result in some ire from the NFL should we make him the head coach. On the other hand, his unit is excelling and it's good practice to reward excellence.

Just get Clueless Hue out of there. Admit that we made a mistake with the guy and move on.

He gets chummy with the players and this makes for good fluff pieces in the off-season.

This is what I keep saying to myself when trying to figure out what the actual " is going on. You have 2 coordinators that were better coordinators than Hue, They are former HC's that were much more successfull than Hue, but yet Hue isn't the problem here? I don't buy it. This is the very definition of keeping on for the sake of keeping on..or in other words...insanity

WHO?
The ST coach. Then you can explain this performance. But really, we didn't start badly. A kicker would help. Hue needs tacklers. And BM won't survive eight more games of battering or so. making sense of this is tougher than it needs to be. Don't just react. Plan. This is frustrating for fans. Maybe Hue going is a solution in part, but will cause more problems as well.

I think chud was fired on the bus was he not?

I think he had heard rumor or someone leaked the firing before he got back to Berea. It happened when he returned, IIRC. Still, on the bus or back home, it was after the season had concluded.

Hue fired per Schefter.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter