DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Rappaport Says Haley Also Fired

J/C,
Wether or not Hue is a good coach, you cannot bave Haley acting like a supreme ass and not listening to the HC. In a way, that is Dorsey and Hue's fault for not addressing that issue!! I wish a subordinate would act to undermine me at my job, they are the walking dead at that point.

But lets not act like the offense was smoking either. It was ranked 29th. BTW, the D is ranked 28th. Wow Greg is doing such a great job!! But I will wish him luck and still cheer for the Browns.

To be fair, whats the def ranked in TO ratio? the second most important stat in football, behind the score?

Im not actually a huge GW fan, but the def is always on the field the last two years because between haley and hue, we havent had a decent offensive gameplan in two years to keep the def rested.

Willy,
If you look up my posts, I always talk about the o-line and D-line in preseason, why, because if those two lines are not dominant, then the people BEHIND them will have a problem. Our OTs on both sides are getting beat like drums! Hey that's a Dorsey problem that did not get fixed. Or if you have that problem, you better adjust in game!!

And again, you cannot look at our last 2 years of rosters and think Cleveland should have been alot better. Hell, stop Kizer from throwning to everyone else but Browns and we win 3 games last year.

As far as D, yes, they play well in the first half, then get the ball ran down their THROATS in the second half = GW.

I think our D gets tired because they come out firing with all guns and don't know to pace themselves, its not the O problem they can't take themselves out of the field.

Haley had a game-plan that involved grinding it out. That´s why we had good 2nd halfs.

Several games our O gave us a chance to win. Haley is a good OC.

But what was clear what that there was an inconsistency between our O and D philosophy, Dorsey chose GW,I honestly don't think he had many alternatives there.

Both Haley and Hue are good coaches. It just didn't work out. Haley had his way, Hue has his.

My thoughts are Hue was too invested in calling plays. No knock on him, he just had a hard time giving it up. Had Dorsey and Haslam not more or less forced him to hire a OC, I doubt he would have.

All of this could have been avoided had Hue not said the things he did last week. That was the last straw for John and Jimmy. He need to have that conversation in private.

I get it, and feel bad for Hue. He was under pressure to start winning and it didn't look like the combination of coaches was going to get that done. Time to move on. Maybe without the behind the scenes drama we will get to see our talent unlocked. Now with both Hue and Haley out of the picture, Kitchens will get to run it without someone chirping in his ear suggesting that maybe we need to do this or do that.

I wish them well and wish the new guys well. Lets go win a few games!

If Haley's plan was to be so far behind that he'd be able to pick apart prevent Ds in the 2nd half, I can see why he was fired.

I didn't see grind it out playcalling. I saw a fair bit of boom or bust play calls, like a deep pass out of the end zone. It predictably didn't boom.

The O consistently failed to capitalize on turnovers, which are what gave us a chance to win.

j/c

Anyone thinking this team is suddenly going to be better this season is fooling themselves. GW knows zero about running an NFL offense and the OC has never called plays in an NFL game before. That's no recipe for success.

If the owner and FO wanted to fire Hue and Haley, I get it. But for fans to put on some orange tinted glasses to pretend the current situation is anything more than a band aid for the rest of the season they are convincing themselves of something not based in reality.

Then next year we'll have a new HC with his new staff at OC and DC. New schemes and new systems on both sides of the ball for the entire team to learn starting from scratch. A second year QB starting over.

Long term I understand the reboot. But folks, it's a reboot and pretending it's not going to come at a price and take time is fools gold.

I would say a bandaid is better than letting amputed leg bleed out. to each their own. I don't see how anyone could say having a coach who has won 3 games and has caused turmoil in your locker room and FO is a recipe either.

If you making a meal, and you burn overcook the steak, burn the potato, and serve a soggy side salad, there was a point where you should have just thrown it in the trash and either started over or went to the McDonalds.

I thank the coaches for some serious work and wish them well elsewhere. Berea magnifies bad situations. Hope we have some success to go with the inevitable regrets. BM has been losing ground a bit for several weeks now. Hopefully he continues to learn and grow.

I am interested in seeing Kitchens's offensive calling. Hope we show improvement and put up some solid numbers. ST's are still a sore spot for me.

Of course you completely missed the entire point of my post. Not sure why I'm not surprised. lol

My point, since you obviously missed it, is before the ship is righted, it's going to take time. Williams is a temporary fix for this year. A new HC, OC and DC will be here next year. A second year QB learning an entire new system. We're looking at 2020 before we can actually compete at the earliest.

Let me repeat..... I get why they felt they had to move on from Hue. Obviously a point you missed right away! lmao

Point being, the fans need to understand it's going to take some time to install all new coaches on this team and for their schemes to be taught.

You are hilarious when you go off the deep end like this. lmao

Nobody said that or even suggested that. But here you go again!

I like Kitchens a lot. I think he's going to do well.

I think that one main voice is going to help the offense as well. I don't think that Williams is going to, or even be allowed to, jump into the offensive side of things.

Kitchen isn't some totally inexperienced guy. He is a really bright and experienced QB coach, who helped Carson Palmer recover his career in Arizona. I don't expect him to completely overhaul the offense, but I do expect less plays that put Baker in such immediate danger .... such as running empty backfields as often as we have. (not to mention gadget plays that always seemed to blow up on us)

I am looking forward to seeing how Kitchen does. I suspect that he'll do well, and then we'll move on from this staff, and like so many others, he'll go on to success elsewhere.

Good luck with that.

I am not expecting this offense to throw up 40 points/game, but I do have real hope that we will start faster than we have all season.

I hope we start utilizing our TE more. They certainly will help a rookie QB to have the security blanket around. and I think with our WR corps right now, we need to be targeting them at least 15 times a game between the two. Pits def is notorious for getting eaten alive by TE's, and we completely disregarded our TE until the end of the game.

I think Jarvis needs to step up as well, but I am leaning more towards he will than you are I think. I still have hope for him too.

A lot of these guys are just rear end hurt because that they attached themselves to hue so much that they feel the need to defend themselves and him still. Not saying that's what stripper is doing, but as a generality from what I am seeing.

I dont see us winning many more games this year. I didn't us winning ANY games with the staff we just let go.

Did you say that about the Rams? Eagles? Minn? etc who all turned around rather quickly when they cut out their coaches.....


More and more you are seeing teams changing out Hc and have success right after.

That's not much of a yardstick.

No it isn't. We have scored what ... 9 1st quarter points all year, total? That's in half a season. We have to get better here, and I think we will.

Sure tab, sure.

Let's hope we will.

I think our D has suffered because of the O. The O cannot stay on the field and our D gets gassed at the end of the game. And do not get me started on how much advantage we have taken of all those takeaways. I think our D is better than the stats show. Cue Diam ...

YTown, I am not saying this in a mean way, but it's pretty hard to predict greatness from a guy who has never called plays before.

Maybe he is a genius? Maybe he is a dunce. Maybe he is just another guy who knows Xs and Os and is going to be defined by the talent on his offense?

Which, incidentally, it will take us two downs and a fumble to travel that far.

LOL

your certainally not a piece krap.
you'd probally give the shirt off your back to one who needs it.
I dont even think your a HOMER if someone talked to you in person.
but however I think you have trouble admitting that since 2002 this franchise has been a complete definition of dysfunction.
through your excitement of a new year you tend to really inflate the actual talents and skills of certain players.
2-5-1.
HC and OC gone in the same day.
unprecedented in the NFL IN MID SEASON.
3 months ago clowns like Landry was Kool Aid swigin how the Browns were gonna score 40 a game and how this was a playoff team.
sorry I cant be positive until I see more than 7 wins a yr and 3 AFC North wins.
and changing Haley and Jackson 8 games in spells dysfunction.
25 coaches under Haslam spells dysfunction.
absent of playoffs since 2002 spells dysfunction.
all I heard 3 years ago was how 2018 was the year of the turn around
what....the fans turning around on the Browns fed up of being let down every year or the front telling coaches to turn around and find the door??

Everyone starts somewhere.

The guy has coached RB, QB, and TE. He is well thought of, and has had success in his various steps. He also had a chance to learn from a coach I happen to think (and I know you agree) was quite brilliant in his offensive designs .... that being Bruce Arians. He coached TE, QB, (for 3 season) and RB in Arizona.

I think that he's ready to run an offense. I expect to see less "brilliant" plays that lose 5-10 yards, and more plays that offer Mayfield a better chance to succeed, and just work. We will see though.

The dude is a Haley guy, too. Right?

I would have preferred letting Hue be more involved w/the offense. He did a bunch of RPO's, moving pockets, roll outs, etc in Cinci.

Those things would have helped Baker, but Haley was being stubborn.

Actually, Kitchens is a Hue guy.

Kitchens worked under Haley in Arizona.

Thank you.

I guess he did work for Haley for 2 of his 10 or 11 years in Arizona. I could have sworn that he and Hue worked together. I guess I was wrong.

I think it was him over Saunders just to keep the same play book

I don't know if stubborn is the word, but no doubt that wasn't a part of Haleys playbook, or at least his mindset. We are better off without him.

Now, to me its clear why we didn't do it...Mayfield never did it in College and he sucks playing out of the pocket.

Haley was developing and protecting Baker, IMHO, he was doing the right thing.

If you're o-line isnt protecting the QB, how was Haley protecting Baker by keeping him in the pocket, or not doing anything to offset free rushers?

The Ol is good, don't go start bad mouthing the OL just to justify the Qb lack of production.

Baker is a rookie, so this are called the growing pains.

Haley, IMHO, was helping Baker by leaning in the running game, grinding the O, demanding less from BM,not more.

I'm not sure how you could've watched the last couple games and say (with a straight face) that we're protecting Baker.

To piggyback off of the point Pit (I think) was trying to make earlier... if anybody thinks that firing our head coach and/or OC is going to do any of the following

1. Make our rookie QB that wasn't supposed to start this year magically start reading defenses and executing an NFL offense like a vet
2. Magically transform our talented but raw undrafted rookie LT into a olineman that has refined his technique and added a significant amount of strength
3. Make at least one more NFL-average-or-better WR appear out of thin air on our roster
4. Cause the bone(s) in Mitchell's arm to magically heal and get him back out onto the field

... then yes, firing Hue will help us perform better this year.

At some point in a OC's coaching career, they have a first time to call plays., Happens every time... look it up LOL

I'll watch and see what happens.

Williams is an aggressive coach. Will he let Kitchens go crazy? Can he even go crazy? Guess we'll see!

I agree. Kitchens has been a NFL coach a long time, in multiple coaching slots. He was a QB in college.

I think he will do just fine. Maybe really fine.