DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum O-Line

Hey Jester. If you are interested, I tried to answer some of your question in the Baker Mayfield thread that super started last night. I put them there because I think the subject is more about Baker than the OL.

Let me know if you have any questions or additions.

Per STATS metrics, these Guards lead the NFL in preventing pressure (pressure percentage better than expected)

K. Zeitler (#Browns) - 6.0%
M. Yanda (#RavensFlock) - 5.2%
J. Sweezy (#Seahawks) - 5.0%
S. Mason (#GoPats) - 4.8%
J. Bitonio (#Browns) - 4.7%

https://twitter.com/StatsBySTATS/status/1055934344584286208

That's interesting.

Do they have these numbers for tackles and center?
I wonder how they figure these numbers out.

Bitonio is our best OL ... Zeitler has struggled more than he should IMO. He's paid very handsomely and is experienced.

I felt Bitonio finally looked human out there without Joe Thomas...but still our best lineman like you said...Zeitler like you said seems to struggle a little more...I know he was rusty with missing the preseason, but has been better the last few weeks vs the start of the year. Odd, the first 2 weeks of the season Tretter imo was our best lineman, but he then didnt look as swell...and Bitonio and Zeitler have been improving since the first couple weeks.

I agree w/most of what you say, especially the "timing" aspect. I do want to say that this OL has looked world's better than I thought they would. I thought they would be really bad this year. However, they have actually been better than average.

I'm not seeing 'better than average'. I am seeing 'better than I thought I would' though.

Against Pittsburgh there were a good 3-5 plays where Watt came off the edge and no one even tries to block him. Was that a failure in scheme or were those missed assignments?

Anybody with any insight?

Watt came into this game with 6 or 7 sacks against us in 3 games. How he goes unchecked or untouched ANY play is beyond me. Myles is doubled just about every play, their best rusher is scott free half the game.

Its coaching.

This was incredibly bad today.

Normally I only had that call when the pocket and QB rolled opposite the freed-up defender. Rollout was to beat a backside rush and it gained a blocker. Not us today.

That's what I'm wondering. Like seriously, wtf is the problem? We don't even try to block him half the time!

That's basic football.

Perhaps it is as cfrs pointed out about Baker not being able to make play adjustments...

perhaps. But do you really think baker is that stupid, to not see that a guy would be coming unblocked?

HELP!!!!

I just think Haley is a hard headed stubborn person who does things his way and refuses to change. There is a reason Pittsburgh got rid of him. They were winning, but he was making suspect play calls continually. I was under the thought that Ben's ego was the problem, but watching some of the calls this guy makes drives me crazy. He does not use Baker's strengths, even though he says that is his MO.


Guys unblocked is a scheme problem. Not adjusting is a coaching problem.

There wasn't much complaint about the play calling, until we lost three straight. Now his play calling is terrible, apparently.

I do wonder though about not utilizing the TE's and quick slants...

Our offensive line is putrid. They have zero push and they don't pursue second blocks very well at all. I think it's talent and coaching.

The guard with the highest pass-blocking grade in the league (93.0) is #Browns Kevin Zeitler. Zeitler allowed zero pressures last week and has only given up 5 all year in 383 pass-blocking snaps

https://twitter.com/PFF_Browns/status/1057634717493747712

In my inexpert opinion, our O-line issues are the tackles. I have hopes for Harrison, but he is learning. The league has found his weaknesses and they are exploiting them. On the right, I just have not been impressed with Hubbard at all.

Harrison has been quite bad the past few weeks; teams are just bull rushing him because he lacks strength. He's got a lot of work to do.

In terms of Hubbard, he's been a disappointment. I bet that's one dude Dorsey wisheshe woulda passed on (I think Haley had a hand in bringing him here as well)

If you max protect you become out numbered in the secondary if only 3 guys are going in to routes.

The O is already outnumbered. It's baker and his 10 guys against 11 defenders.

Yeah, it's a tough thing to balance. If we keep an extra TE/RB to block we are outnumbered ... and our WRs cant get separation anyways as it is

I think we need more tempo and more run game .. and then go rollouts and PA off that

What is the overall consensus on Harrison? Do we think that one offseason in an NFL offseason program will get his strength up to par? Or do we need to consider drafting a LT in the 1st round?

My opinion doesn't mean anything, but if I were Dorsey I'd be targeting a few areas EARLY in the draft or FA:

OT (Maybe Harrison can be better than Hubbard with a year of lifting, and we can get a LT ... it's a deep class)

WR ... obviously

LB

Personally, I think that in order to achieve and maintain a good OL, you should draft at least 1 OL/year, high round (1-3) if you have a hole to fill.

j/c:

Personally, and by using some factual stats, I think a big problem is that Baker holds the ball too long. I also think that Baker has to read where the blitz is coming from pre-snap and than make a hot read [along w/his receiver] to counter that blitz. You could see that it was working on the scripted plays early in the game when we were throwing the screens over the top of the blitzers head. I do think there were too many early pressures [especially when we got down by double digits] in the last game.

All of these things need to be improved and I think it is unfair to blame it all on the OL while not even mentioning Baker's issues.

1, I don’t think anyone is blaming anything completely on the oline

2, what are your specific thoughts on Harrison? Is he good enough for us to say that we can pass on a top notch LT in the 1st round for a top notch equally talented player at a different position? Is LT something we need to prioritize?

I also must admit: Corbett's "wasted" year kinda sucks. You draft a guy that high, he should play IMO.

I have to think he's Tretter's replacement long-term

Well, no one is mentioning his role in the issues. They keep talking about the OL, despite evidence that the line is giving Baker quite a bit of time. It's like he is the golden boy and does no wrong. It's always someone else's fault.



I think he is doing way better than we could have hoped for. I think he is young and inexperienced. I also think he goes against the best pass rushers each week because most teams line up their best rusher over the offensive left side. At this point in time, I think he has shown enough to try and develop and I would not draft a LT w/our first pick.

j/c

I don't recall Harrison getting much help from a TE or RB. I DO recall MG regularly getting hit/chipped while abusing the opponents LT - who is or is-about-to hold him.

Not asking me, but I'll chip in.

He's gone against quite a few really really good edge rushers. I think he's performed admirably. I think there's enough there to make the decision to tough it out this year and make sure he's as well prepared as possible going into next year. You give him a little competition, but our high picks (1-3) should be focused elsewhere, unless a LT prospect drops bigtime (kinda like he did).

I agree that I would not go after a LT early in the draft, but Harrison definitely needs to hit the weight room this off-season. Yes Baker holds the ball too long on occasion, and yes the receivers are young and sometimes have trouble getting open, but both Harrison and Hubbard have had problems this season with allowing the pocket to collapse around Baker from the outside.

I think that Harrison has a real future, but only if he gets stronger. I have no reason to expect that he won't. Reports have been that he has been a hard worker.

I would also add that he has played very little football thus far. He was out of football for a few years, then played a single season at West Georgia, where he could probably get by with good technique and his natural strength. He also missed most of training camp with an injury. Further, I wonder if he may also be hitting the dreaded rookie wall.

I think that he has great feet, and generally has solid hands, punch, balance, and natural instincts for the LT spot, and that a full off-season strength program will greatly benefit him. I think that playing strength is what holds him back most of all right now. Well, that plus the fact that it's really hard to come in as a rookie and play LT.Joe made it look easy, but most rookies trying to play LT have problems as their rookie season progresses, and teams identify ways to attack them.

I am amazed that he came in from such a small program and has done as well as he has so far, and I think that with a full off-season program, and a full training camp, he'll improve a great deal.

His feet, agility, and long arms give him a real shot to be very good.

Absolutely.