DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Midterm Grades

We're halfway home ... some good ... some bad (especially lately). I think a lot of us SEE that we have more talent. Dorsey aimed to make us more legit from a talent standpoint, and I think that he's succeeded (at least as much as possible in one offseason).

A few players that I'll give grades to (feel free to choose any players on your own):

- Denzel Ward ... A ... he's been everything we could ask, and the future is bright. I was wrong about him; he's fit the bill thus far.

- Baker Mayfield ... B- ... I think he's been put in a tough spot (obviously) and has shown WHY he's thought of so highly. But he's also had growing pains and has hurt the team at times.

- Chris Hubbard ... D ... he's been a disappointment. Tackle is a huge area to upgrade.

- Jarvis Landry ... B- ... we're asking him to be who he's not. And defenses are keying on him. His talent will pay off when we have a good WR on the other side of the field.

- Demarious Randall ... A ... maybe the pickup of the offseason honestly. He makes our defense WAY more complete. Safety is something we've sorely missed.

- Nick Chubb ... B+ ... he struggled with his blocking early on and didn't see much playing time, but he looks the part. He should be a good RB in my opinion.

- Kickers ... F ... literally costing us more than I thought possible.

- Special Teams ... D ... only because they've been slightly better the past 2 games. But in the first 6? A disaster.

- Desmond Harrison ... C ... he's shown flashes and I can tell he's got upside, but NEEDS to get stronger and know what he's doing. An offseason will do him a lot of good.

- Jabrill Peppers ... B ... One of our more improved players IMO. He's finding his niche and even become more productive in the return game (the fumble notwithstanding)

- Myles Garrett ... B ... He started strong, but is overused IMO. He is still REALLY good and is dominant in stretches, but his run defense looks to be a liability and he needs a secondary move. Gotta get better IMO.

- Emmanuel Ogbah ... C ... It's weird, he flashes BIG time some games/plays, but it's not consistent. I literally forget he's out there during some games.

- Larry Ogunjobi ... B+ ... he started very strong as well, but haven't heard his name much of late. He's graded very highly and I think he'll be a big part of our D for a while.

- Jamie Collins ... D ... Poor effort most of the time if we're being honest. He was AWFUL against LA Chargers and in the run game other games. So overpaid and underproduced.

- Duke Johnson ... INC ... Something is (or was) amiss with Duke and the offense. He doesn't seem in sync with it. I mean, his touches/targets are low and he had zero TDs. We'll see if he's more productive the 2nd half.

- David Njoku ... B- ... He has had some nice plays and great grabs for TDs, but also has some poor drops and is a liability in the run game. He's gotta improve too.



YOU GUYS?

That looks pretty good and I'll add this playbook should have been perfect for Duke. They can line him up in the backfield and motion him out to a route that exploits the match-up he has. I am really, really, hoping Kitchens is planning to do just this. NE has made a lot of mediocre RB's with skills lesser than Duke's look like Probowlers doing just that.

Thats just BULLCRAP .... he’s plenty talented ... i asked one of your fellow believers that Landry can do it all on his own a question and he hasn’t been back to answer yet ... lets see u answer one of them as it pertains to u ....

Who was the WR opposite him for his years in Miami? ... i’ll be waiting ....

Just wait til Bake stats getting it ... Vice Grips will be just fine ....

He’s not a true #1 but he’d be the #1 on ALOT OF TEAMS with decent WR rooms ... he’s like a 1C or 1C 1/2 ...

He can’t do it all on his own ... please do tell who his #1 was in Miami .. ill be waiting ...

PS. If u wanna go with a speed guy that took the top off ... please do tell who that was if thats where u wanna go ...

Now ... if we could add a true #1 that’d be IDEAL .... man would they compliment each other ... pick your poison ....

Vice Grips would be AN EXTREMELY HIGH END #2 ...

Landry is hampered by the fact there isn't much on the other side, so he draws a good deal of double coverage.

ANSWER MY QUESTION THEN ....

THIRD TIME I ASKED ...

NO ONES ANSWERED YET ...

THERES A REASON WHY NO ONES ANSWERED YET ...

Who was on the other side of him in Miami that took the double coverage away from him???

I WON’T BE HOLDING MY BREATH ...

I keep hearing that .... NONE OF U HAVE A CLUE ... and thats a FACT ... proven by the fact none of u can answer ANY OF MY QUESTIONS!!!!!!!

lol. Relax man.

Landry has been used differently here than how he was used in Miami.

Britton Colquitt A+

Jabrill Peppers B... That is just laughable...

I agree ... i haven’t argued that ...

Not that it was directed at u ... at least i don’t think it was, i guess it may have been ... but U didn’t answer my question ...

I guess you are looking for a answer of D Parker. Maybe Kenny Stills.

The point goes to my earlier answer, when you are the only real threat as a receiver, it's pretty easy to swing coverage to make his impact minimal.

Jarvis has a good number of catches but he isn't gaining many yard because he is bottled up quickly.

What? ...

Let me make sure i understand ... ok ... let me take my best guess at what that means ... *L* ...

So your saying he’s being double teamed

The double team is not keeping him from catching the ball ...

Its forcing him to catch it short and then hes being tackled right away cause there’s no where to go cause of the double team ....

I just want to make sure i understand what it is your saying before i reply ...

If thats not it ... please clarify ...

And yes .. that was the answer no one wants to give cause he had BUMS SURRONGING him in Miamim also ... at least u didnt duck the question ...

Higgins may be the best WR he’s ever played next too and Njoku is by far the best TE he’s ever played with ...

I’LL GIVE U GUYS A HINT ... or u could just listen to Vers ... the fact he has no one around him or is not playing as much in the slot has DIDDLY to do with this ...

Nice job. Good read.

Dude... Landry isn't as good as you think he is... It's gonna be ok.

Oh....Baker isn't accurate. There is some truth in that as well. He's missed some easy throws and missed some while under duress. He is still trying to read the field so there are throws he didn't make to the right guy....normal rookie stuff. We knew it was going to happen.

By the way, I wasn't one of the people saying Jarvis is a bum or bust, so I am not disagreeing with you.

Whatever reason you want to say is the #1 reason, I won't complain, because it is a little of all.

Landry isn't has good has he thinks he is, but he is a very, very good WR.

It is a little of more than one thing .... we agree on that ... what goes into the equation we have a MAJOR DIFFERENCE ON ...

Him being a “slot reciever” the way u guys mean it has NOTHINGTO DO WITH IT ...

He’s way more than a slot reciever ... WAY MORE ....

You’ll see ... as Bake improves ... so will Vice Grips .. and not just in the slot ... YOU’LL SEE ...

I’ll be patient and let time tell the story ...

I’m saying the same things over and over ... I’M OUT ...

Later bro ... i’d Say its been fun but man your way off base here and being hard headed about it ... i hate when your like that ... *L* .... just kiddin bro ...

Man you have some serious anger issues you need to solve....

It's quite evident that Jarvis is a very good WR, but also clear that he struggles has being the go to guy when things get tough,he tends to disappear in games.

That is what a true #1 WR is. A WR with high 1st%. Jarvis is traditionally on the low 50's, when he needs to be in the high 60's

Jarvis also has some character concerns, and IMHO, he is very far from being NFL elite,like Antonio Brown, OBJ, Julio Jones, Mike Evens...

I don't think I ever said he is simply a slot receiver. If so, I don't know why i did. I don't believe he is "just" a slot receiver.

He's a receiver, it doesn't matter where you put him.

I do agree that once he and Baker become comfortable his production will improve (and when Higgins returns) ... and then especially when we get a GOOD WR to complement him next year

Offense
Mayfield- C+
Chubb- B-
Harrison- D
Bitonio- B+
Tretter- C
Zietler- B-
Hubbard- D
Landry- C
Calloway D+
Higgins B+

Defense
Ogbah- B-
Ogunjobu- A
Coley- B-
Garrett- B+
Collins- C+
Shobert- A-
Kirksey B-
Ward- A
Mitchell- B
Randall- B+
Peppers-B

Offense
Mayfield- C
Chubb- B+
Harrison- D-
Bitonio- B
Tretter- C-
Zietler- B-
Hubbard- D-
Landry- C
Calloway D-
Higgins B+

Defense
Ogbah- c-
Ogunjobu- A
Coley- B
Garrett- C
Collins- C
Shobert- B-
Kirksey C
Ward- A
Mitchell- B
Randall- B+
Peppers-C


my C's for LB's and DE's are mostly related to how bad we are against the run..Especially Garrett. Dude was drafted to be a impact guy, and he is against the QB, but team run right at him without resistance, but in his defense if he's getting doubled then the LBs need to help

overall I think we have above average talent for our starters, the depth is where we struggle.

Offense

Mayfield- C: Makes plays, good arm, struggles reading coverages.

Chubb- C+: Rips off big runs. Terrible pass protection.

Harrison- C+: Struggles at times, but is better than average.

Bitonio- B+: One of our better players.

Tretter- B-: More good than bad moments.

Zietler- B-: Pretty solid in pass pro

Hubbard- C-: Almost gave him a D-, but teams are really attacking our edges due to Baker's issues.

Landry- B: He's been open and we're not getting him the ball. His fiery attitude is a plus.

Calloway D+: Too many drops.

Higgins B+: It's a shame we lost him.

Defense

Ogbah- C+: Has been improving the last couple of games.

Ogunjobu- A-: Started off great. Might be wearing down.

Coley- C-: Not playing the run well enough.

Garrett- B: I expect more from him, but he has made plays.

Collins- D+: Effort is not there enough. Has great physical skills.

Shobert- A-: Was playing at a high level when he went down.

Kirksey C: He's fast. Not physical.

Ward- A+: Should be ROY and maybe a Pro Bowl.

Mitchell- B+" Exceeded my wildest expectations. Too bad he got hurt.

Randall- B+: Solidified the position.

Peppers-C: He does some good things in tight quarters. A liability in space.

Kindred: D: He absolutely sucks against the pass. That decision in zone coverage last week where AB got the long TD was horrendous.

The F'n Kicker: F. He sucks.

Colquit: A: Dude is an excellent punter.

I kind of disagree with that, there are many "types"of receivers, Landry fits some roles and not others. It has most to do with what he excels at and the miss matches he can create.

Probably the best WR we had was a possession/Slot WR. Remember Joe J, the guy was great and made all around him better.

Grades should include Owner, GM and coaches

- Denzel Ward ... A+ ... He has been arguably our best defensive player (even including myles). What a GREAT PICK.

- Baker Mayfield ... C+ - I really like Baker, I do. I think hes going to be the leader of this team. His arm strength is better than advertised, but I need to see a lot more. I am not sure what restrictions Haley had put on him, but I need to see him start calling audible at the line, and reading defenses a little better.

- Chris Hubbard ... F. He looks nothing like he did in Pittsburgh when he played, I guess playing on that line will make anyone look good.

- Jarvis Landry ... C, I need to see more effort, plain and simple. A few times his body language and effort on plays have not been ideal.

- Demarious Randall ... A ...for what we traded for him, this may have been the steal trade of the year.

- Nick Chubb ... B+ ... I like Chubb a lot. I think hes doing great.

- Kickers ... F ... literally costing us more than I thought possible. ( I don't think I needed to re-write this). But I will add - I am so sick of seeing those knuckleballs by Tim Wakefield Jr. AKA Joseph

- Special Teams ... C- they have improved, but still need to show a lot.

- Desmond Harrison ... C- Ill give him a C- because he is over producing, but I had higher hopes coming after the first two games. I see him trending down.

- Jabrill Peppers ... A...I was not a Peppers fan. He has surprised me.

- Myles Garrett ...A...he is held ever single play, I don't know what fans want, but its unrealistic to think hes gonna get 3 sacks every game. He literally disrupts just about every play.

- Emmanuel Ogbah ... C ... I like Og's but he needs to be more consistent.

- Larry Ogunjobi ... B ... Larry has been quite lately, but hes a nice piece

- Jamie Collins ... F... Just doesn't seem to care or want to be here.

- Duke Johnson ... C... He hast gotten the ball much, so that's not his fault, but he seems to get up hobbling every time he does.

- David Njoku ... D-... Yeah hes had a couple nice catches, but the dude SHOULD BE DOMINATING right now. We have no WR, and he couldn't even get a catch last week? Nah, dude step it up and stop dropping the ball, or seeya

Owner F GM A+ Coaches F

Owner - Z TO INFINITY ... OK ... he lucked into Dorsey ... he gets a break .... he canna get off at the stop before infinity ...

GM - incomplete ... his grade will be heavily weighted to Bake and right now we have no clue ... he has a shot ...

Other than Bake and based on it being only 1/2 through season one .... witch is way to early to really grade ..... i’d Give the King an A- ...

Coaches are an incomplete ... there interim at this point and we have no clue how they’ll do ..

Owner - F
Coaches - I don't even know what to say
GM - A-

Hmm...I'll give it a go.

He had Tannyhill who I think is a below average QB....but he wasn't a rookie so there's that. Wash to me.

He had Gase for a HC who was dubbed an offensive genius but there O has struggled this year.....we had Hue/Haley and Haley has had some really good Os in Pitt and Zonal. Wash to me.

WRs....Miami's were better than ours no doubt, but it wasn't like they were world beaters either.

OL?? Ours is bad, but to be honest I have no idea how good/bad Dolphins OL was last year, and how much time they gave for route development.


To be honest his catch numbers and yards aren't going to be that far off what he has done previously. He is what he is and that is a REALLY good WR.

Owner - F?

Tough crowd.

Dude ought to at least get a D for keeping the team in Cleveland.

Some else would have bought them ..

I think ownership gets an F+ to a D-. I would be wayyyy more comfortable if the PC after the firings was just Dorsey alone. Haslam needs to stay the hell out of it.

Coaching.. well there is no grade anymore for HC and OC. They are gone. DC gets a C+ to a B-. ST Coach, I'll just say that's an area of big concern.

Dorsey get a B from me.. his draft was a lot better than I originally thought. He gets dinged from a better grade from me for letting the Hue / Haley sheepfest continue as long as he did. In fact I'm not so sure he really screwed us up by bringing Hue back this year.

dont we have to stay in CLE until at least 2029?

I don't know of any owner who wouldn't be involved after a coach is canned.

Like it or not, all owners have some say in matters.

Agreed... it would be weirder if he wasn't there.

Some of his answers, specifically regarding his involvement going forward, I did not care for.

Yes joe was pretty good possession WR but do you remember Brian Brennan ?(sp?)