DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Rookie QB's Mid Season Review

Rosen - body language on the field and the way his players act toward him on the field tells me he will not be successful. He has the talent, but I see his attitude and demeanor being his downfall.

Darnold - I think has a chance to be a good QB franchise guy. If he can learn to make better decisions, watch out. But he doesn't much around him.

Josh Allen - he just pure trash.

Lamar - haven't seen enough to make a decision on how I feel about him. Will he stay healthy taking a lot of hits at this level? Can he improve playing in the pocket? He is an interesting cat to keep an eye on.

Bake - I believe will have the best chance if they can get him some WR to throw too. With Dorsey picking, I believe he will. Just give him some time. I think we finally got our guy I believe he will turn out.

I been looking forward to the last 3 or 4 draft classes and how they progressed ... 1/2 through year 1 here’s how i’d Rank the groups ... before i do that though ...

Agree with Bone 100% ... its all about SITUATIONS ... what situation did they come from and what situation are they going into ...

Also bone points out that the start is not indicative of the finish in most cases ... you’ll see a GREAT EXAMPLE of that in the first group ... then u look at RG3, Kap and they are more examples of QB’s that after there rookie years looked like SURE THINGS and then just fizzled out ...

Anyhow ... after a 1/2 season her’s how i’d Rate there play ...

1. Wentz, Dak and Goff ...

After 4 gamers ... bust was started ... after the season ... bust was going in the waste management truck along with wentz himself .. *L* ...

Goff was the worst draft pick since Leaf ...

How did Dak fall to the 3rd was it ... this dude LIT IT UP .. he was so far advanced ...

Look how things have changed ... Goff is now the toast of the town and Jerry is backing Dak as his QB of the future cause w/o playing around an all star cast he’s struggled the last two years ...

2. Watson, Mitch and Mahommes

Didn’t see Mahommes ... Mitch started in week 3 or 4 and was MEH ... looked more bad than good but he went to a horrible situation ... 3 YARDS AND A CLOUD OF DUST Fox wasn’t a good destination ... *L* ...

Watson lit it up ... LOVED watching him play .. man did i miss on him ... he also went to a situation much like Dak .. GREAT SITUATION a far as coach and surronding talent ....

he started out slow this year but has turned it around in a big way ... he needs to PLAY SMARTER or he’s not gonna last .. theres not many QB’s that can take the pounding Cam can ..

3. This group ... very MEH so far ... no Daks or Watsons ... a lot of Mitch’s ... *L* ..

NO GOOD SITUATIONS in the group ... problems with all the teams ...

Bake - coaching turnover all ready ... weapons going down like flies ..
Rosen - coaching ... who puts there rook qb in for there first game action with 3 minutes left in a game your down 2 .. what qb grooming manual did he read .. *LOL* ...
Darnold - more injuries than us at the skill positions ..
Allen - no talent around him ... NONE .. anywhere .. shady can’t do it all on his own .
Jackson - one heck of a runner ... he’s no Watson .. i didn’t miss on Jackson Swish .. were 1 - 1 .. *LOL* ...

This group has struggled ... RIGHTFULLY SO ...

Watson had by far the best 1st year of all of them ... but he would not have been nearly succesful year 1 if he came here this year as a rookie ...

He had TALENT and was a 4 year starter in college and went to a fertile training ground ... good formula for ROOKIE YEAR SUCCESS ...

None of these guys went to even decent incubators and at this point we have no clue if they have NFL TALENT ...

BAKE HAS A SHOT ... and thats ALL I CARE ABOUT ...

Who peed in your Wheaties?

Just calling it like I see it boss. 2 win teams just aren't good. You name any other 2 win team and I will have a similar story for you.

I think Mayfield can be a Top 10 QB.
his rookie season has been
clouded in yet dysfunction yet again by the front office and coaching staff.
he has very average WRs and TEs to target.
none are really dangerous at the 2nd and 3rd levels.
give him the talent and stability that Mahomes inheirted his numbers would look better.
their isnt one player of his supporting cast that could
start for another AFC North team

i think everyone is well aware that its too early to determine what these QB's will be in the future, as i made that clear in my OP.

i just thought it would be fun to discuss the QB's and how they look midway through the season.

Tab: i wanted no part of Allen, but at the end of the day, if we rank the rookies best game midway through the season, Josh Allen had the best performance and win against a team they had no business beating in the Vikings. Rosen, Baker, Lamar, and Darnold don't have a win like that. that wasn't just a win against a solid team; it was a beatdown, with absolute crap talent around him.

Diam, not fair to say whether or not either of us were right on Lamar. he's the only QB who has to wait behind a superbowl winning QB. all the other QB's were waiting behind journeymen, and we're pretty much guaranteed to start sometime during the season. However, he's already shown ridiculous athleticism, he does have a passing TD, and overall he's done good things in the packages he comes in as. i think Harbaugh picked a perfect way to develop him without keeping him on the bench.

overall, i really wish the cardinals get their crap together and get Rosen protection next offseason. it's gonna take a while to rebuild that team, but hopefully they get OL help and get some guys before they mess around and break him.

U can wait if u like .. fair or not I’m taking the W now ... *LOL* ...

Good point on Rosen ... hate to see what they did to poor Andrew Luck in Indi happen to Josh .. i wonder of Luck is physically damaged and if so how much ... they got that kid KILLED ...

So............none of you are interested in the pre and post-snap reads thingy? None of you think that is important to the success or failure of a qb?

Why u directing that at me? ...

I’ve said thats one of my concerns from before the draft ... still holds true today ...

Is that him being a rookie and he will “get” it or is it going to be a roadblock to a good - great career ...

I tried to compare groups through half a season ..

I’ll let u know how i feel about this class in a few years ...

i dunno if its people are or aren't interested in discussing that. but for me personally, i dunno if any of the QB's not named Lamar even have a competent team AND coaching staff to really get a solid evaluation.

i mean look at it. Mayfield, Rosen, and Allen are playing under trash coaching staffs, and even worse talent. at least mayfield has some talent around him Allen and Rosen aren't working with much of anything. Darnold atleast has a solid defensive HC, even though he needs better offensive coaching. Lamar isn't a fulltime starter, but he has Harbaugh.

so for me, its hard to really dive in to the detail like that because 3 of the 5 are playing with a bunch of Jeff Fisher's and not so good playmakers. Goff looked like butt his rookie season, but then got a good HC and its night and day.

I thought I said "none of you..." Yours was the last post.

But, I can see why you guys want to ignore it. Carry on w/fantasy world.

Jarvis is looking exactly like the wr he was in Miami. He's the king of the drag route while being blown out. I bought into the hype about him, but now I see it again.

Which rookie qb is playing w/better talent than Baker?

Jackson is, but he isn't playing. Buffalo is a hot mess. The Cards are even worse. The Jets? I guess that is debatable, but some of their players are guys we deemed not good enough for us.

I'm tired of this poor Baker rhetoric. And it seems like he was leaking negative information about the Browns coaching staff and might have even went behind their backs.

He--and his father--were accused of the same thing when he was at Texas Tech.

U did say that ...

Still not sure how i get LUMPED into that group seeing as how i’ve Talked about his reads on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS ... 4th or 5th time you’ve done that to me lately ... not sure why ...

Oh well .. nuttin i can do about what group u decide to lump me into ,,,

I'll tell you why............because what I brought up is extremely important and other than Varmint, no one wants to discuss it.

I think I know why you guys want to ignore it, but I brought it up again to give y'all another chance. You continuing to ignore 2 out of the 3 most important things a qb does tells me all I need to know.

source?

Go read the Pile on Hue thread.

Two things...

1. Where are you getting the info on Baker going behind the coaches backs?

2. I've said this before, but I don't understand why reading defenses post snap is considered an innate talent. It seems like that is something that can get better with experience. What about that skill makes it innate?

It would seem if it was a skill that people either have or they don't there would be some type of test for it.

I already answered the first question. The second question seems more argumentative than an attempt to have a discussion. I'm not interested in playing that game.

It wasn't argumentative.

It was a legit question.

Baker has gotten worse. That tells me that defensive coordinators are figuring out his weaknesses and that is why I brought up the pre and post-snap reads. But, other than Varmint, no one wants to talk about that.

I could have sworn I already explained it????????

Is this like an episode of the twilight zone or something?

You are begging people to talk about pre and post snap reads.

I asked a legitimate question about post snap reads.

What's the issue?

i've tried searching for it on google, but can't find anything about it.

could you post a link please?

I already told you that it's on the Hate Hue thread.

did you fact check it?

Rish, I already addressed it. Some of it is on this very thread.

If you think I am making it up.....then, there is nothing to discuss. If you want to discuss, pull up some of what I have already said and we can discuss how Baker is doing in those areas.

Why should I? There are a ton of BS rumors being posted as fact on this board. You are not calling out those guys on other threads. Why not?

I know why not. Y'all wanna play the rumor game, let's play!

KInda like my thread about depression?

I made a legit post, about someone one I know.........knew. And vers had to to go all personal.

j/c:

And it's back to personality issues again.

I don't know..........I think it's important--and interesting--to talk about a qbs ability to make pre and post-snap reads. Consider it affects the evaluation of the OL, the receivers, the number of sacks, the yards after catch, the number of throw-aways, the chance of big plays, etc.

But no.........let's not talk about that. Let's talk about personalities.

Not ignoring it. I read the explanations and try to learn. I don’t add to the discussions as I don’t have anything to add. But I greatly appreciate when those who know share the information.

Thanks Cap.

Yes, it's important, but it's too soon to tell. Peyton Manning stunk it up his rookie year.

It's hard to get a clear take on post snap reads with Baker in part because he's dealt with a couple of super raw rookies.

Ratley started 11 games his last two seasons at Texas A&M, which isn't particularly known for its receivers' route trees.

Callaway last played at Florida as a sophomore in 2016.

Baker and all his receivers are in a new offense. He's in his first year seeing NFL defenses as are the other rookies.

A lot of the misfires seem to be Baker and the receivers not being on the same page.

He does have his overthrows, but those aren't really read related.

He's got a UDFA LT who'd been away from D1 football for several years and a journeyman RT, also new to the team, protecting the edges.

None of the TEs appear to be able to block, leaving free rushers clear lanes.

Apparently, his head coach and QB whisperer wanted to distance himself as much as possible from Haley's offense, which would seem to greatly hamper (/hamstring) his ability to help the young QB.

I'm not sure you could find a worse situation to throw a rookie QB into.

Dorsey may have been onto something when he went with the guy he thought most likely to be able to deal with dysfunction.

In the same boat as you Cap. I don't offer any input to pre and post snap reads because I would be talking from a position of ignorance.

He has none, hes still just butt hurt over hue getting fired