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Is Baker Mayfield the quarterback Cleveland has waited for?

Kevin Van Valkenburg
ESPN Senior Writer




IT HAD BEEN years, and it felt like even longer, since that many people stayed to watch the end of a Cleveland Browns game at First Energy Stadium. Trying to rush to an escalator, or elevator, was pointless. Almost everyone was caught in a slow-moving sea of orange and brown, a wave of thousands of jubilant fans, drunk on cheap beer or hope (or both), standing shoulder to shoulder and gradually inching their way down the labyrinth of ramps that wind their way to the stadium's exit. Leaving a building long dubbed the "Factory of Sadness" had never been so difficult.

For the first time in 635 days, the Browns had won a football game, defeating the New York Jets 21-17 on a warm September night. A fan base that had been forced to accept misery as a regular part of its existence was now singing and clapping in unison, with such gusto that you could hear the chants echo off the buildings of downtown, and out into the waters of Lake Erie.

Ba-ker May-field! (clap clap clap-clap-clap!)
Ba-ker May-field! (clap clap clap-clap-clap!)


"I would say from end whistle to getting to my car took about 90 minutes because of how many people stuck around to the end of the game," says Scott Sargent, a Northwest Ohio native who co-founded the Cleveland sports blog Waiting For Next Year, and who has been writing about Cleveland sports for more than a decade. "The entire time, people were doing the 'Baker Mayfield' chant. I've never seen one player come into a game and instill hope in a franchise the way he did that night."

Some fans simply wouldn't leave the stadium. As Mayfield stayed on the field to do an extended interview with the NFL Network, a small group stuck around to continue the chant, occasionally switching it up and treating Mayfield like a deity.

You're the sav-ior! (clap clap clap-clap-clap)
You're the sav-ior! (clap clap clap-clap-clap)

Mayfield rolled his eyes a bit when presented with a celebratory cake, but he played along. He knew what this win meant to the city. "It's like one of those 'Talladega Nights' moments where I don't know what to do with my hands," he joked. "As corny as it sounds, that's kind of how my whole life has gone. I've been a backup, and I've had to fight through some things."

In that moment, you could forgive Browns fans for being unabashedly hopeful. In Mayfield, they suddenly had a player and a leader with enough charisma and swagger -- and possibly skill -- to wash away a decade of well-earned cynicism. "To put it into perspective, Baker Mayfield was drafted in every single local fantasy football league that I'm in, and he wasn't even guaranteed to play a down this year," Sargent says. "I think that's indicative of the hope that he personified, that maybe this franchise was finally getting it right."

All he had to do was keep performing miracles.

SIX WEEKS HAVE come and gone since that moment. The joy that was blossoming in Cleveland that night has, at best, wilted. Even the vendors hawking "Mayfield Mania" and "The Bake Show" T-shirts on Lakeside Avenue outside the stadium have felt the excitement wane. "We probably sold 3,000 T-shirts at $20 a shirt before the Ravens game," DeAndre Stevens says. "It's definitely slower since then. He's the only player we got, but he can't do it alone. It's definitely frustrating."

Lately Mayfield has been wearing the look of a man dropped into a long-running reality show, only to realize, a month in, that his hope to change the vibe would be in vain -- that everyone has spent several years plotting against one another. The Browns have lost five of six, and the quarterback's play since the victory against the Jets has been occasionally exciting, but mostly uneven. A behind-the-scenes power struggle between head coach Hue Jackson and offensive coordinator Todd Haley resulted in both men getting fired. Owner Jimmy Haslam called the move a "rebooting" and insisted it was done to send a message that the franchise would not put up with infighting. General manager John Dorsey was quick to make it clear that the firings were made with Mayfield in mind, the franchise having already burned half a year making its young quarterback learn an offense that will be abandoned by spring.

It's clear, even after only eight weeks, that Mayfield possesses leadership qualities that are rare, albeit hard to quantify. Any suggestion he was going to be Johnny Manziel 2.0 -- another undersized, cocky quarterback from a powerhouse program who freelanced and partied his way out of football after being a first-round Browns draft pick -- has proved to be the laziest of comparisons. Unlike Manziel, Mayfield has played primarily within the structure of Cleveland's offense, throwing the ball in rhythm and through tight windows. (He's completing 60 percent of his throws, even though the Browns are sixth in the NFL in dropped passes.) When he improvises, it's generally because protection has broken down. In the locker room, he has earned the respect of the veterans without tempering his bravado, not an easy needle to thread for a young quarterback.

"I've been here through a lot of quarterbacks," says offensive lineman Joel Bitonio, who has been with the Browns since 2014. "He's the one guy who really does have that 'it' factor. It's hard to explain what that is, exactly. Obviously, he's a good player. But it starts with his competitiveness. Everything he does, he wants to be the best, but he puts in the work. I love him. No matter what's going on in the game, he's always in the huddle like, 'All right, we're scoring a touchdown this drive.' It's always good to have leaders, but to have your quarterback be that guy, that is special."

When pressed by reporters early in the season as to why he and Jarvis Landry, Cleveland's best wide receiver, weren't connecting more often, Mayfield quickly tried to pin all the blame on his own throws.

"I'll just be better for him," Mayfield said. "I wasn't the accurate quarterback they drafted me to be, plain and simple. I'll fix that. It doesn't matter on Jarvis' end. He's doing his job. I'll be better at doing mine."

Some of the best evidence of Mayfield's potential, both as a player and leader, came in the Browns' 45-42 overtime loss to the Raiders on Sept. 30 -- Mayfield's first career start. Miked up by NFL Films, his swagger was on display throughout the game, even during warm-ups, when he handed out a few high-fives to Raiders fans right before the national anthem.

"I have more Raider fans than they do," Mayfield joked with Browns receiver Rashard Higgins. "I've got a damn rocket on my right arm!" he boasted after throwing a 49-yard touchdown to tight end Darren Fells over the middle.

But perhaps more telling was one of his pre-drive pep talks. "All right, listen," Mayfield growled as the Browns took the field in the second half. "Nobody needs to step up. Just do our job the best we can. That's all we need. We don't need anything else. They're not better than us. Do our f---ing job."

When Nick Chubb broke through the line late in the fourth quarter for a 41-yard touchdown, giving the Browns a 42-35 lead with 4 minutes, 20 seconds to play, Mayfield sprinted to the end zone so he could hug his teammate, squealing like a teenage girl rushing the stage at an Ariana Grande concert.

"That's what gets us going," Browns tight end Orson Charles says. "A lot of people may not agree, but I love it. I don't want a quarterback that's timid. I played with Drew Brees, and Brees had a chip on his shoulder too, but he showed it differently. I'll follow [Mayfield] wherever he wants to go. He can connect with anyone. I love that about him. He's just like, 'Hey, can you help us win? Then let's go.'"

Mayfield's ability to connect with people, to make them feel a part of something bigger than themselves, has always been one of his natural gifts, dating to his time at Lake Travis High School in Austin, Texas. His high school football coach, Hank Carter, often thinks back to a moment during Mayfield's senior season, when the Lake Travis High marching band qualified for the state semifinals. "There is a tradition in Lake Travis, when an athletic team makes a state level of competition, the community will do a send-off," Carter says. "The send-off for the band was on a Saturday morning, the day after we'd played a game. As you can imagine, high school boys are not particularly excited about showing up early in the morning to hold signs and cheer on the band. But not only was Baker down in front, he was leading the chants, the same type of chants you'll see him still doing in huddles today. He made it feel really special for those kids. Most high school kids would think they were too cool for something like that, but Baker saw it as an opportunity to celebrate someone who had supported him."

WHAT, THOUGH, ARE the limits of charisma and leadership? Can Mayfield's personality truly make up for limitations in other areas? Brees gets plenty of praise for his leadership, but he's also better at understanding when receivers are about to break into space than any quarterback to ever play. It's not leadership or charisma that allows him to fit the ball into tiny windows, on time and under duress. It's that he's an athletic freak, maybe as much an NFL unicorn (in his own way) as Michael Vick was during his prime.

Can Mayfield really develop into a poor man's version of Brees? There are times when he'll make you a believer. Against the Steelers, he made a handful of Houdini escapes, including one where he somehow avoided getting sandwiched by Cameron Heyward and T.J. Watt and pirouetted backward to find open space and zip the ball to Landry. But he struggled when forced to throw from within the pocket, averaging just 5.0 yards per completion. It was after that loss that Jackson and Haley were fired.

"He's not as accurate as I expected him to be -- just a couple of throws that aren't quite as pinpoint as what you saw at Oklahoma," one front-office executive says. "But I chalk that up to growing pains and everything he's got going on around him. It's clear his teammates respond to him, and early on you saw the eye-opening plays that made them believe he was the guy. I'm interested to see how he handles the coaching changes and whether we see progress the rest of the year, or if he starts to look overwhelmed."

It seems apparent already that he's not Patrick Mahomes, the man with whom he shared a pregame hug Sunday before Mahomes roasted the Browns, throwing for 375 yards and three touchdowns in a 37-21 Chiefs victory. And it seems clear Mayfield's not Carson Wentz, who finished third in the NFL MVP vote last season despite missing three games because of a knee injury. The Browns could have had either player in consecutive drafts but chose instead to focus on defense.

Was Mayfield, plus defensive end Myles Garrett (the No. 1 pick in 2017), a better gamble than Mahomes alone? Were the 11 picks they got as a result of their trade with the Eagles better than picking Wentz? At this point, the answer doesn't matter. The Browns have to make it work, whether or not they develop doubts about Mayfield's long-term potential. The pressure on the franchise to get it right this time is enormous.

At the very least, the fan base knows Mayfield will be the quarterback in 2019, a rare piece of continuity for a franchise that hasn't had a quarterback start at least 12 games in back-to-back seasons since Tim Couch did it in 2001 and 2002.

"As a fan, I think you become numb to it after a while, especially when you draft or have guys under center you know aren't going to be there for the long haul," Sargent says. "Cody Kessler was not selected to be the quarterback of the future. Mike Holmgren might have sworn by him, but no one paying for tickets, or merchandise, or affording their 3½ hours on Sunday, thought that was going to be the case. When the winningest quarterback in your stadium since the resurrection of the franchise is Ben Roethlisberger, you know your team hasn't exactly been a stable one at the quarterback position."

There is a sense, within league circles, that the Browns job is more attractive to potential head coaches than it initially appears, despite the constant dysfunction. Observers are quick to draw parallels between the Browns under Jackson and the Los Angeles Rams in their final season under Jeff Fisher. Jared Goff looked lost as a rookie, but after being paired with Sean McVay, he looks like an MVP candidate. It might be the reason former Arizona Cardinals coach Bruce Arians said this week Cleveland's was the only job he'd consider coming out of retirement to take.

Mayfield, for his part, has been reticent to do anything that might make it look as if he's eager to get attention, primarily limiting his interactions with the media to his weekly news conference. Approached after the Browns lost in overtime to Tampa Bay and asked if he'd be open to sitting down for an interview, Mayfield was clearly annoyed.

"It's just a really inappropriate time for you to be asking me about that right now," Mayfield said, still fuming from the loss as he walked to the team bus.

That strain of competitive rage simmers in everything Mayfield does, and it's one reason the Browns remain hopeful this is the perfect match: underdog franchise and perpetually aggrieved player. Bitonio couldn't help but smile during one of the practices in the week leading up to the Browns' game against Kansas City when, during a "seven shot" drill -- where the offense has seven chances to get into the end zone -- a shoving match broke out between a pair of burly lineman. As it got more heated, several other players joined the scuffle.

"Most quarterbacks stay out of that stuff, but Baker jumps right into the heart of it," Bitonio says. "He's throwing guys off, he's getting up in guys' faces. Well, if your quarterback goes into a fight, you can't let him go in there unsupervised, so now everybody has to jump in. It's all in good fun. But if he has your back like that, you know you have to have his back on the field.

"Football is such a unique melting pot, because you have 53 guys from completely different backgrounds. When you have a quarterback who connects with everybody? That's pretty special. He's been good for us, man. Now we need to protect him, and keep him out there as long as we can."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25198...-reason-believe


You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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All good points - but I think Allen and Rosen are at least in as bad a situation. Darnold and the Jet's seemed to be in better shape early in the season but whether it's through injuries or regression - they aren't a putting Darnold in a good situation overall either.


I think a mid season rookie review can really only be about the impression that these guys give - diving in too deeply into the supporting cast, the development of the QB's to read NFL D's and coverages, the ability to look off receivers or work through progressions .... all too soon to see or make much of anything. My impression is BM has got the ability to be successful - a lot has to fall in place and still develop for that to happen. Darnold looked like he has a good shot too - I haven't seen Rosen or Allen play as I stated earlier.

What I like about the change to the OC - Kitchens definately wanted to build a scheme and call a game that helped Baker and the whole offense. Remember when Wentz looked so good as a rookie? Peterson called a game plan that didn't require Wentz to do a lot - his average pass was well under 10 yards. What he did - he did very well - but I would speculate that at the same number of games in their careers, Baker has been asked to throw deep WAY WAY more than Wentz was. Someone smart with access to a lot of data might be able to verify (or dispel) that?


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What a great article.

clearly he seems like the sort of selfish player that would undermine his coaching staff and talk to the media in secret.


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Originally Posted By: mgh888
What a great article.

clearly he seems like the sort of selfish player that would undermine his coaching staff and talk to the media in secret.


To be fair, if that was him, he didn’t undermine any of his coaches. The coaches that were talked about are no longer with the team.

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It may not seem like a big deal but it is because of how people relate to numbers.

The Browns lead all of football in dropped passes.

Move that dial up to middle of the pack and the numbers changed a lot. Let alone other related results.

Given all factors I am encouraged by Bakers performance.

I am not making excuses nor trying to say he needs to be measured for a gold jacket.

Time will tell but I see positive signs.

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Originally Posted By: Jester
I don't offer any input to pre and post snap reads because I would be talking from a position of ignorance.


Same here. I am beginning to think that neither one of us belongs on the internet because of this.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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My mistake.

they were number one and now are 6th

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Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg
Originally Posted By: Jester
I don't offer any input to pre and post snap reads because I would be talking from a position of ignorance.


Same here. I am beginning to think that neither one of us belongs on the internet because of this.


I like to think that I don't talk when I don't know what I am talking about and that I stay calm and collected and don't make overly emotional over the top responses to those that don't agree with me.

But I won't say it out loud because if anybody heard it my internet privileges would get revoked


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Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Personally I think people like to make football more complicated than it really is.

When you watch football on tv hit pause right after the snap. Replay it if necessary. You can see what is happening.

People can add all the language. Spider 2 Y banana. It is just language.

Post snap everybody goes where they are supposed to - hopefully. That is the plan. But then it comes down to who wins the matchups.

When you watch great quarterbacks Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Rivers. These guys don't get fooled often. What happens to the play is all about "who does their job" or "who gets beat".

Football is not mysterious. It is not nuclear physics.

Game plans are important. Packages are important. That is where the chess part comes into play.


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So pre snap, what is the Qb looking for?
Number of defenders in the box
Identifying any blitz

What else is the Qb looking for pre snap?
What is all the "identifying the Mike" about?
Why is that hard?
What does the Mike tell you?


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The QB looks at alignment.

Who is aligned where. He is looking for coverage tips.

What linebacker is in what coverage? Where are the safeties?

Man or zone. What kind.

The Mike linebacker is almost always the most "pure" linebacker of the group. He is usually the one who makes several calls for the defense. He will often be relaying the front, coverage, any motions by the offense, audibles, or adjustments to the entire defense. He needs to be well-rounded and able to do a variety of things on the field.

Pre-snap is not that hard. Because it is just what is shown. It is post-snap where it all happens.

Pre-snap is mostly used to camouflage post-snap.

Nickle and dime packages are when it can be really confusing because you bring or subtract personnel based upon down and distance. And players take different responsibilities and roles in different coverage's.

So again it is not necessary to know all. Just hit pause after the snap and you can see how the play will develop.


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Good stuff bone. The issue with the "pause" is that tv doesn't typically give the views to see the whole defense. I wish they gave free access to the all 22.

Now post snap, what is the QB looking for?
What does he key on?
What do those read tell him to do/not do?


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Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: mgh888
What a great article.

clearly he seems like the sort of selfish player that would undermine his coaching staff and talk to the media in secret.


To be fair, if that was him, he didn’t undermine any of his coaches. The coaches that were talked about are no longer with the team.


Does Baker seem like the kind of guy to anonymously throw past or present players or coaches under the bus? Not to me.


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Agree that is an issue.

I try and find views where you can see the whole field.

Baldinger does a good job at play breakdown. But he has coaches tape so you can go back and forth with a view of the whole field.

When I rewatch or *scout I don't watch the game the same way as I do live.

I am kind of weirdo especially when I watch college games to scout players. When in that mode I don't even know what the score is. Frankly when I watch college I don't care.

Unless it is some big game. I don't follow college I just watch certain players.

Pro game kinda of the same. I just like watching great players.

The Browns are the only team I bleed for. It is the only games where I am a pure fan.

*scout just for me

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It's amazing how many threads get ruined on here.

Whatever.........

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https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pr...8b5b3-191351853

Pro football focus grades for 30 starting QB's.

As far as comparing the rookie QB's it's not even close.

No = it doesn't mean that he's a lock to become a franchise QB ... but dang if aint a nice to see and read.


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Well crap Vers just post your thought on the pre snap and post snap reads and be done with it.
I would like to read it and it would likely open a good conversation.


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Rosen, Baker, Lamar, and Darnold don't have a win like that.

So beating the Ravens was nothing???



Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

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Originally Posted By: eotab
Rosen, Baker, Lamar, and Darnold don't have a win like that.

So beating the Ravens was nothing???



that was a good win for Baker. but that wasn't a mud stomping like Allen delivered to the Vikings, who are a better team than the Ravens.


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Baker is proving he is and will be the top QB in this class ... Darnold is a TO waiting to happen, Rosen is a QB who is not a leader by any stretch, Allen has no accuracy, Jackson doesn't even belong in the conversation ... JMHO


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Agreed. IMO all we need to do is put more talent around him and give him sound coaching and we may finally have a very good QB for a long time.

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Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Baker is proving he is and will be the top QB in this class ... Darnold is a TO waiting to happen, Rosen is a QB who is not a leader by any stretch, Allen has no accuracy, Jackson doesn't even belong in the conversation ... JMHO


I still have not been wowed by Baker..He has been the most consistent by far, but is that what you are really looking in your rookie franchise QB?

Darnold and Josh, for sure have ticked in the wow factor for me, both good and bad. Rosen is looking very composed, and not stirring things in Arizona.

Still hard to say anything about this QB class... well Mahomes is really a first starter this year, so Mahomes gets the prize.

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If you're not wowed by Baker then I'm worried you're not paying attention.

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Quote:

I still have not been wowed by Baker..He has been the most consistent by far, but is that what you are really looking in your rookie franchise QB?


Yes.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
If you're not wowed by Baker then I'm worried you're not paying attention.


Could you provide some examples of something extraordinary BM has done?

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I rest my case.

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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
If you're not wowed by Baker then I'm worried you're not paying attention.


Could you provide some examples of something extraordinary BM has done?


I'll give you something super extraordinary Baker has done.

He's made all the scouts and football insiders - coaches, media, past and present HOF QB's - all say "wow" this guy has a chance to be special. There are also many that seem to have changed their opinion and - based on what they see with their experienced football eyes and IQ - think that the Browns got it right by taking Baker first overall. . . . that is truly extraordinary.

Of course - we know you are a small minded hater - so it doesn't matter what QB's that play or played the game at the highest level think. It doesn't matter what PFF think - the organization that does nothing but scout and grade and evaluate each player thinks (and who is employed by most or all teams in the NFL based on what I have heard) .... I'm sure you never even bothered to read the PFF link I posted because you know it will conflict with your opinion ... You keep on hating. We will keep on enjoying and hope for continued development.


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Originally Posted By: rastanplan

Rosen is looking very composed, and not stirring things in Arizona.

well Mahomes is really a first starter this year, so Mahomes gets the prize.


rofl

I'll tell Baker to make sure he doesn't stir anything up and the fans will think he is a better QB and be Wowed because of it.

And Mahomes? In a rookie QB discussion ! You can't make this stuff up. Thanks for the laughs on a slow Friday morning.


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Baker has improved each and every week. A lot of drops by WRs. I think now we actually have a real OC that will change his growth to be more rapid and visible.

Again we have the most difficult schedule.

We have a lot - mega fold of injuries along the defensive side of the ball.

What that does it pretty much dictate our Offense to having to CATCH up and have teams pin their ears back and throw the kitchen sink at Baker because we are forced to be in a passing situation!

jmho there are not that many rookies in the history of this game playing as well and PROGRESSING as well as Baker Mayfield is doing. To question his prowess I think is just denial and I'm not saying the kid is perfect but I'm talking on his over all maturation into the NFL game. He is doing all that is asked for. He has slowly had his accuracy climb to 60% and this is being done with him not firing on all his abilities in accuracy yet.

His TDs are climbing and his ability to lower the risk and TO are getting better and better. He is doing all this as teams are throwing Everything they got at him and if you look his time to getting rid of the ball is getting lower and lower. As soon as we master the Screens to combat the all out blitz. As soon as we have play action with teams over loading the box.

We will get better and better. We need that vertical stretch. Calloway is OK but he has messed up a lot. Njoku has not been utilized in that capacity enough. A lot is going to ride on the new acquisition of Perriman, actually I like what he has shown so far. If the kid can run a sluggo and catch the ball we will see things start to change. Once we create the space with Horizontal and Vertical stretch then Landry + Duke will take over the game!

jmho


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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
If you're not wowed by Baker then I'm worried you're not paying attention.


Could you provide some examples of something extraordinary BM has done?


I'll give you something super extraordinary Baker has done.

He's made all the scouts and football insiders - coaches, media, past and present HOF QB's and even Diam - all say "wow" this guy has a chance to be special. There are also many that seem to have changed their opinion and - based on what they see with their experienced football eyes and IQ - think that the Browns got it right by taking Baker first overall. . . . that is truly extraordinary.

Of course - we know you are a small minded hater - so it doesn't matter what QB's that play or played the game at the highest level think. It doesn't matter what PFF think - the organization that does nothing but scout and grade and evaluate each player thinks (and who is employed by most or all teams in the NFL based on what I have heard) .... I'm sure you never even bothered to read the PFF link I posted because you know it will conflict with your opinion ... You keep on hating. We will keep on enjoying and hope for continued development.


Fixed ot for ya ... *LOL* ...




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LOL. Thanks.

He's no where near a finished product. He regressed a bit in some of the last games while Haley was OC ... we can debate if Haley was a factor in creating additional problems - but bottom line is that he has a real shot at being a viable answer at QB. He has a shot at being very good/special. I'm looking forward to the journey.


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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
If you're not wowed by Baker then I'm worried you're not paying attention.


Could you provide some examples of something extraordinary BM has done?


I'll give you something super extraordinary Baker has done.

He's made all the scouts and football insiders - coaches, media, past and present HOF QB's and even Diam - all say "wow" this guy has a chance to be special. There are also many that seem to have changed their opinion and - based on what they see with their experienced football eyes and IQ - think that the Browns got it right by taking Baker first overall. . . . that is truly extraordinary.

Of course - we know you are a small minded hater - so it doesn't matter what QB's that play or played the game at the highest level think. It doesn't matter what PFF think - the organization that does nothing but scout and grade and evaluate each player thinks (and who is employed by most or all teams in the NFL based on what I have heard) .... I'm sure you never even bothered to read the PFF link I posted because you know it will conflict with your opinion ... You keep on hating. We will keep on enjoying and hope for continued development.


Fixed ot for ya ... *LOL* ...


I have read PFF, and do not see any conflict in it. PFF praised Baker on his accuracy, its was their big selling point and I agree with then.


The moment Baker starts hitting the higher 60% completions with consistency, I will be praising him too.

So far, Baker had half a good games, where the other D just gave up.

On the good side, he has been consistent and does not turn the ball much, although is accuracy outside the pocket is lackluster.

Just because I don't think Baker is the Messias, that does not mean I am an hater... The fact that you guys can't see his problems is the symptom that you are the ones small minded.

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Take away the drops and he is hitting 70% + of his passes ...

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I don't remember ever criticizing Baker himself, apart from his character, that I do not like that much.

I remember saying that I think much of the accuracy talks came from an inflated system in college, and that its very hard to appraise a QB with Bakers Characteristics. College accuracy is very far from NFL accuracy, that's why I never could understand why Baker was picked number 1.

I also remember saying his arm talent is not on par with the best 10 QB's in this league, which makes him, IMHO, an average arm starting QB, specially throwing outside the numbers to the left.

I also remember saying that BM is not a Favre play-maker style QB, that he struggles to make stuff happen, and is not that good throwing on the move and outside of the pocket.

I also remember saying that IMHO Baker has decision problems and holds the ball far to long.

I never said that he could not improve, nor did I ever criticize his play in any game here, quite the contrary. I'm probably the only poster here that actually is pleased with our O.

Now, if this is small minded hating for you,so then be it.

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Quote:


I have read PFF, and do not see any conflict in it. PFF praised Baker on his accuracy, its was their big selling point and I agree with then.


The moment Baker starts hitting the higher 60% completions with consistency, I will be praising him too.

So far, Baker had half a good games, where the other D just gave up.

On the good side, he has been consistent and does not turn the ball much, although is accuracy outside the pocket is lackluster.

Just because I don't think Baker is the Messias, that does not mean I am an hater... The fact that you guys can't see his problems is the symptom that you are the ones small minded.



Your double standard is obscene…

You're saying two other quarterbacks have impressed you more than Baker. Those two quarterbacks have inferior completion % and claim you won't start praising Baker until he hits 60% consistently.


So... you're either saying you have a higher standard for Baker for whatever reason... or you just don't know what you're looking and try to make up things in hopes to convince others you have a clue.

It's ok to be wrong. If you were to say you were wrong about Baker now it'll be easier than saying you were wrong down the road. Or are you holding out hope that you're the one person who will be right and look like a genius?





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Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Take away the drops and he is hitting 70% + of his passes ...


No he is not,and drops are part of the game. Baker has a very low accuracy % outside of the pocket, that's his problem.

Also to hit the 60-70%, he has to be much quicker thinking, deciding and passing.

He still is not the kind of QB you guys think he is, or want him to be. Give the kid time, let our O develop the running game, and let him get used to the NFL, if he has it, he will get there.

Stop making excuses with the OL, the Wr's the OC's. Either he will do it and make all better, or he wont.

We already made a mistake IMHO by firing Haley just because BM isn't proving to be a savior wonderkid.

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Originally Posted By: rastanplan
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Take away the drops and he is hitting 70% + of his passes ...


No he is not,and drops are part of the game. Baker has a very low accuracy % outside of the pocket, that's his problem.

Also to hit the 60-70%, he has to be much quicker thinking, deciding and passing.

He still is not the kind of QB you guys think he is, or want him to be. Give the kid time, let our O develop the running game, and let him get used to the NFL, if he has it, he will get there.

Stop making excuses with the OL, the Wr's the OC's. Either he will do it and make all better, or he wont.

We already made a mistake IMHO by firing Haley just because BM isn't proving to be a savior wonderkid.


We lead the NFL in drops superconfused


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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Quote:


I have read PFF, and do not see any conflict in it. PFF praised Baker on his accuracy, its was their big selling point and I agree with then.


The moment Baker starts hitting the higher 60% completions with consistency, I will be praising him too.

So far, Baker had half a good games, where the other D just gave up.

On the good side, he has been consistent and does not turn the ball much, although is accuracy outside the pocket is lackluster.

Just because I don't think Baker is the Messias, that does not mean I am an hater... The fact that you guys can't see his problems is the symptom that you are the ones small minded.



Your double standard is obscene…

You're saying two other quarterbacks have impressed you more than Baker. Those two quarterbacks have inferior completion % and claim you won't start praising Baker until he hits 60% consistently.


So... you're either saying you have a higher standard for Baker for whatever reason... or you just don't know what you're looking and try to make up things in hopes to convince others you have a clue.

It's ok to be wrong. If you were to say you were wrong about Baker now it'll be easier than saying you were wrong down the road. Or are you holding out hope that you're the one person who will be right and look like a genius?



Nope - he is WOWED by Rosen because Rosen is so CALM and has not created a scene in AZ.

Despite the fact that Baker has shown to be a leader to the whole team - that comes a distant second to being calm and not making a fuss ! catfight


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19. BAKER MAYFIELD, QB, CLEVELAND BROWNS
2018 OVERALL GRADE: 74.5
Accuracy percentage: 57.4% (16th)
Clean-Pocket Grade: 83.5 (20th)

27. JOSH ROSEN, QB, ARIZONA CARDINALS
2018 OVERALL GRADE: 60.6
Accuracy percentage: 45.0% (35th)
Clean-Pocket Grade: 62.4 (33rd)

30. SAM DARNOLD, QB, NEW YORK JETS
2018 OVERALL GRADE: 50.9
Accuracy percentage: 47.4% (34th)
Clean-Pocket Grade: 56.7 (36th)

Hey maybe I misunderstood - maybe it was "WOW I can't believe how far below the level of Baker those guys are playing."

Or maybe it's "WOW - I can't believe I keep talking up Rosen and Darnold clearly I need to actually, maybe, watch some of their games"


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