Let's also hope Dorsey was at The Game to scout players, not head coaches. I like this new trend of Baking Buckeyes into the Brownies. I also like how Dorsey takes a hands-on approach to scouting.
Cleveland Browns: John Dorsey attending Michigan-Ohio State game
by Dan Justik
Cleveland Browns general manager has been making the college football scouting tour, with his next stop in Columbus for The Game.
Cleveland Browns general manager John Dorsey has been known to be one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL.
He is not afraid to get his hands dirty and go back to his roots of being a scout, as he will travel around the country to take a look at the next best NFL prospects.
On Saturday, the Browns general manager is in Columbus, Ohio and will be in attendance for the Michigan-Ohio State game.
The Browns currently have 10 draft picks at their disposal for the 2019 NFL Draft, and Dorsey has been making the rounds in recent days to look at potential prospects.
On Friday, Dorsey was in Morgantown, West Virginia for the Oklahoma-West Virginia match-up. Both Oklahoma and West Virginia have plenty of talent on the offensive side of the ball. With the Browns lack of weapons, it would not be a surprise to see them target that side of the ball in April.
Also, both Michigan and Ohio State have talent on both sides of the ball. For Ohio State and Browns fans, it is a welcome sign as the Browns general manager has made the trip down I-71.
Ohio State has been putting quality talent in the NFL for the past decade. However, the Browns have rarely added the in-state talent, until Dorsey joined the organization. Dorsey drafted former Ohio State cornerback Denzel Ward in the 2018 NFL Draft, and Ward has shown the potential of being one of the next best cornerbacks in the league.
The one interesting aspect of the two recent games that Dorsey has attended is not just the players on the field, but the men on the sidelines. In both games, there is a head coach that is expected to be a candidate for the Browns vacant head coaching job.
Oklahoma head coach Lincoln Riley is thought to be the Browns No. 1 target for their head coaching vacancy. His dynamic offense and his connection to Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield make him an obvious candidate.
Also, Michigan head coach Jim Harbaugh has been a rumored candidate for the Browns. Despite leaving the NFL a few seasons ago, Harbaugh is seen as someone that will be willing to go back to the professional ranks, especially if he could coach a team with a strong quarterback.
With Dorsey’s early success in the 2018 NFL Draft, it is good to see him back on the road looking at the next NFL prospects. There are multiple representatives from NFL teams in Columbus, but Dorsey is the only known general manager attending.
Not Harbaugh. Neither one. We tried that coaching sister act before and it was awful everywhere. We have better and can do better. I am a Buckeye fan! I campaign for Harbaugh staying right where he is.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Today is #RIPSashi day. Whether you agree with his strategy or not, it's undeniable that within 3 years of his taking over the Browns have their best long-term outlook since the franchise returned to Cleveland 20 years ago
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The facts are Sashi left behind two top-5 picks, two early second round picks and two early third round picks, in addition to tremendous cap space, promising young defense talent and a rebuilt interior OL that has been one of the best in the NFL
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Those who say Sashi wouldn't have ever drafted a QB and would have continued to accumulate picks and cap space for years, shouldn't be taken seriously and aren't worth debating. They weren't swayed by logical process, they won't be affected by strong results
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We're in stage three of detractors moving the goal posts, just as we saw with the Sixers/Hinkie: 1) It won’t work 2) It will take 5+ years to show any progress 3) Looks like it’s working much faster, but anybody could have done it
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So much ink split over the last three years about the QBs the Browns passed on. Where would they be if they had taken Wentz, Prescott, Watson? A better team in 2016-2017, but they wouldn't have as much surrounding talent, and Mayfield was the best prospect of them all
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Can't be 100% certain Sashi would have drafted Mayfield. But Mayfield was one of the best QB prospects ever according to an analytical model developed by someone Sashi hired to be a senior personnel analyst. Mayfield was what Sashi was looking for
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QBASE, developed by Andrew Healy who Sashi hired, had Mayfield as the 4th best QB prospect since 1997. Wentz and Watson didn't score well, and that's probably why Sashi passed
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Sashi wouldn't have passed on every QB to accumulate picks. He was likely playing the odds based on scouting and models. Models liked Goff and Mahomes. They probably would have been the pick if available at 2 in 2016 or 12 in 2017, respectively
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I don't agree with everything Sashi did, and he'd likely approach some decisions differently in retrospect. Maybe certain vets would have been re-signed, a veteran QB kept on last year. This is more about laying out the facts, which have been skewed to fit predetermined opinions
Sashi did leave a lot behind to work with, that is true.
Sometimes GMs get fired and they have already burned up future picks. For example, using a first round pick to get a second rounder in the previous draft, or a 2nd rounder to get a 3rd rounder, that sort of thing.
At other times they burn those picks on players, with little regard for their contract status or future progression, basically different flavors of short-term thinking.
There's some good and some bad in there wish Sashi. I think that if we had won 4-5 games each year in 2016 and 2017, which is about what the Vegas over/unders were, we'd be looking at things differently.
Well he would have caught a lot less short-term grief, but then we probably wouldn't have Garrett and maybe not Mayfield, so it's hard to say.
Dorsey has done a nice job with the bounty of picks he had. Mayfield and Ward weren't exactly the most popular picks, nor was Nick Chubb. Yet they won 8 or whatever rookie of the week awards between them last I read and it may even be more by now. Avery has done some nice things as a pass rusher.
We still haven't really seen what Corbett can do. Don't count him out just because he hasn't gotten much playing time on our very good, and very healthy interior offensive line.
I am posting this, don't look into the title. Listen to this.
During the Pittsbrugh game, Tyrod Taylor was warming up, this guy speculates that Haley said "hell no" to benching Baker for Tyrod.....which was the internal discord.
Today is #RIPSashi day. Whether you agree with his strategy or not, it's undeniable that within 3 years of his taking over the Browns have their best long-term outlook since the franchise returned to Cleveland 20 years ago
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The facts are Sashi left behind two top-5 picks, two early second round picks and two early third round picks, in addition to tremendous cap space, promising young defense talent and a rebuilt interior OL that has been one of the best in the NFL
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Those who say Sashi wouldn't have ever drafted a QB and would have continued to accumulate picks and cap space for years, shouldn't be taken seriously and aren't worth debating. They weren't swayed by logical process, they won't be affected by strong results
Quote:
We're in stage three of detractors moving the goal posts, just as we saw with the Sixers/Hinkie: 1) It won’t work 2) It will take 5+ years to show any progress 3) Looks like it’s working much faster, but anybody could have done it
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So much ink split over the last three years about the QBs the Browns passed on. Where would they be if they had taken Wentz, Prescott, Watson? A better team in 2016-2017, but they wouldn't have as much surrounding talent, and Mayfield was the best prospect of them all
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Can't be 100% certain Sashi would have drafted Mayfield. But Mayfield was one of the best QB prospects ever according to an analytical model developed by someone Sashi hired to be a senior personnel analyst. Mayfield was what Sashi was looking for
Quote:
QBASE, developed by Andrew Healy who Sashi hired, had Mayfield as the 4th best QB prospect since 1997. Wentz and Watson didn't score well, and that's probably why Sashi passed
Quote:
Sashi wouldn't have passed on every QB to accumulate picks. He was likely playing the odds based on scouting and models. Models liked Goff and Mahomes. They probably would have been the pick if available at 2 in 2016 or 12 in 2017, respectively
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I don't agree with everything Sashi did, and he'd likely approach some decisions differently in retrospect. Maybe certain vets would have been re-signed, a veteran QB kept on last year. This is more about laying out the facts, which have been skewed to fit predetermined opinions
I'm sick of the Sashi apologists. If the guy was on the right course, why did Haslam dump him? He stripped the team to the bones, removed all viable veterans, and passed on franchise QBs more than once. He gave us a 1-31 team. I don't care what he left for Dorsey, he did nothing to improve this team IMO. Giving a consistent losing franchise more losses than usual, for what ever reason was not what the fanbase deserved. There is no proof that he would have built the team up starting with all those draft picks he accumulated. All he accomplished was adding more misery to a fan base that has suffered for decades.
Certain posters are not content unless they make every thread a Sashi and/or a Hue thread. This forum resembles the Political forum rather than the PFF.
At least you tried, Cal.........but those guys have a green light to ruin almost every thread w/the BS.
I don't understand why the Hue & Sashi bashing/apologizing gets posted here in the Dorsey thread. Boggles my mind. I don't mind the discussions per se, but they don't belong here.
Refs, perhaps you could start a Hue/Sashi Retrospective thread and put this stuff there. There is plenty to talk about regarding Dorsey, opinions on the previous regime don't belong here. Thanks!
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
IMO ... so far hes been as good as it gets .. are u kidding me with that draft ..... granted .. there was a ton of talent and he had some primo picks ...
Bake ... are u kidding me ... we dont know yet .. but I think we know Bakes floor ... and its a prett darn high one ... kid has a shot to be special .. lets watch and hope he progresses ... hes still got a long ways ot go with the reads IMO ... he’s also real smart and incredibly advanced for any rookie ... and i mean any rookie ....
This draft SO FAR ...
- franchise QB ... odds are in his favor and wary higher than for any rook i can ever remember this many starts in ... the 2nd half against the texans was very impressive ... he bounced right back ...
- shutdown corner
- AWESOME RB ...
- good edge rushing LBer that may be able to cover ... anyone?
VICE GRIPS Mitchell .. WOW ... what a surprise he’s been VICE GRIPS Randall Gaines VICE GRIPS ..
Holy crap ... what’s NOT TO LOVE ...
Problem is the bars set real high .. good news is hes got studs at a lot of the key positions ... we got LOTS OF TALENT NOW ...
How could anyone realistically argue against that ... OH VEY ...
There’s my opinion ... what King John did ... oh ya ...
The MORON let Kendricks go ... i dont care what u ya’all say ... that was DUMB and hurt this football team ... he’s playing again ... GRRRRRR ...
What King John did has been pretty incredible so far compared to any draft much less anythng we’ve seen since ... well never ...
Yeah, great first year. And I'd add Callaway, Perriman, Robinson & Hubbard as guys who look like they've been solid additions, with Callaway looking like a future star and Robinson looking like possibly our long term left tackle. I can't wait to see what he does this off season.
Hopefully he gets the HC decision right.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
I'm sick of the Sashi apologists. If the guy was on the right course, why did Haslam dump him? He stripped the team to the bones, removed all viable veterans, and passed on franchise QBs more than once. He gave us a 1-31 team. I don't care what he left for Dorsey, he did nothing to improve this team IMO. Giving a consistent losing franchise more losses than usual, for what ever reason was not what the fanbase deserved. There is no proof that he would have built the team up starting with all those draft picks he accumulated. All he accomplished was adding more misery to a fan base that has suffered for decades.
He made some (a lot) of mistakes sure, but NO EVIDENCE?
2017, Sashi's last draft before being fired 1st Round (#1): DE Myles Garrett. 1st Round (#25): S Jabrill Peppers. 1st Round (#29): TE David Njoku. 2nd Round (#52): QB DeShone Kizer. (Who was good enough to net Damarious Randall) 3rd Round (#65): DT Larry Ogunjobi.
Looks like some pretty good evidence to me.
Sashi did what he was asked to do. Why did Haslam do something? Don't look to logic to answer that one. He also forced the Manziel pick and a bunch of other things that have really hurt us.
I'm glad we ended up with Dorsey cuz he's doing a great job, but Sashi wasn't some bumbling fool either. He tanked 2 seasons on purpose (probably didn't account for Hue going 1-31, most coaches probably could've won 2-3 games a year with those rosters), and built us a future.
Just based on track record when looking to place blame seems crazy to not assign it to Haslam. I just hope he can stop meddling for a few years and let us get good.
Certain posters are not content unless they make every thread a Sashi and/or a Hue thread. This forum resembles the Political forum rather than the PFF.
At least you tried, Cal.........but those guys have a green light to ruin almost every thread w/the BS.
Sashi was wired because he passed over 2 QB's that changed their team immediately and made him look like an idiot...
Wentz and Watson...
It is that simple and when you have been looking for a QB for 19 years and pass over 2 in 2 years, you get FIRED!
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
In two years our team accumulated some role players and one impact player. Myles Garrett. In the last draft we garnered three impact players including a franchise QB. The evidence is only obvious for anyone willing to look at it.
In the GM department we went from mediocre at best to a top talent at the position.
People saying otherwise would probably argue that we should have stuck with JFF because he actually won a game instead of having a far superior QB in Mayfield.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
When you want to judge a GM's decisions you have to factor in not just who he brought in or drafted but also what was available to him?
The Kizer trade for Randall. A good example of moving a guy who would have sat and made zero contribution to a guy who has been a factor on defense.
Obviously in the draft Mayfield over the others. The big one Ward over Chubb. Both having great rookie years. But Ward to us and what he has done on our defense.
Picking up guys like Harrison and Robinson a free agent and a former first rounder considered a bust.
What is eye opening is to look at all the deals Dorsey has made. Guys on the practice squad etc.
Given the GM's the Browns have had in the past. Not even close to what Dorsey has done in one year.
You gotta thank the color red before you can thank the color orange.
I don't disagree that Sashi helped form the current roster, with talent, draft picks & cap space. But that's really not what much of the bashing is all about. Like I stated, I have no problem with the Hue & Sashi discussions per se, just that they don't belong in the Dorsey thread. They could use their own thread(s) IMO.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
Dude ... what thread aren’t they in ... a few of the haters on each side RUIN EVERY THREAD ..
Go ahead ... find me a thread they HAVEN’T RUINED ... JUST ONE ...
This is WAY WORSE than its EVER BEEN ...
We beat the crap out of couch/kelly ... DA/whoever ...
We’ve beaten everything to death for years on these boards ...
It NEVER PERMEATED every thread like it does now ... they even closed down MY OPTIMISM THREAD ...
U want talk about Bake the D ... dont matter ... one of the haters is gonna weave Hue or Sashi into it ..
THERE RUDE ... nuttin we can do about that ...
Just look at this thread ... u ASKED them not to do it ... how many posts did it take ...
And i respect what your trying to do here .. your last reply was to the CAPTAIN of TEAM RUDE ... good luck with this ... talk about being up poos creek w/o a paddle ... u gotta heck of an uphill battle on your hands here ... TEAM RUDE could care less as long as they GET THERE SHOTS IN ...
Man, he has to be a front runner, yeah? It would be well deserved. He may have had a sweet set up to step into, but he had to execute once he got here. And he crushed it.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
Different opinions don't ruin threads. Complaining about different opinions ruins threads. I didn't see any offensive comments on this thread leading up to your comments.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Different opinions don't ruin threads. Complaining about different opinions ruins threads. I didn't see any offensive comments on this thread leading up to your comments.
Man, he has to be a front runner, yeah? It would be well deserved. He may have had a sweet set up to step into, but he had to execute once he got here. And he crushed it.
I would have to think he is the front runner for it, yes. He had a lot to work with but like you said, he crushed it.
These types of awards tend not to factor in what a GM has to work with enough, anyway. For example, look at the 2012 winner - Ryan Grigson. What did that guy do, besides make the most obvious #1 overall pick in recent memory?
Interestingly enough, in 2013, it was Dorsey who had the #1 overall pick. That was his first year with Kansas City and the year he won the award. That #1 overall pick was LT Eric Fisher. Not exactly a home run but then again, that was a very weak top of the draft. It's the one the Browns took Barkevious Mingo at #6. The first QB was E.J. Manuel at #16.
The Chiefs did nab Alex Smith in a trade with a 2nd round pick (and a conditional future pick) and Travis Kelce in the 3rd, so there were some good things there.
This year, it's going to be hard to top Baker Mayfield, Denzel Ward, Nick Chubb, as well as a couple trades/free agency additions.
Dude, I honestly think we will win the division next year.
Just wait until the offseason hits, Browns will probably cut a dozen veterans, from any part of the roster,
Hire a New head coach who will probably mess things up by trying to be the smartest man in the room,
Probably keep all 10 draft picks on their 53 man roster to start next year, even though it makes the team worse,
Pretty much what they do every year, OIC Only in Cleveland.
People can say it isn't a tear down and rebuild, but that's about the only thing the Browns do consistently, (and losing), This team is already world's away different than it was in August of This year! 3 and a half Months ago.
First year, Coach,... New or Rookie Quarterback... New offense or defense...
Browns "always" seem to have 1, maybe more.
The only time they stuck with a coach, is when he goes 0- and freakin 32!!! OIC.
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Dude, I honestly think we will win the division next year.
They Should! In Fact, From this day forward they should consider themselves the best team in the division because of talent, QB, they way they are playing, and the defense,
Until they blow everything up and mess up their fortunes again.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
The NFL announced Tuesday that projections for the 2019 salary cap are in the range of $187 million to $191.1 million -- a decent increase over the 2018 cap of $177.2 million per club.
cal, there is a lot to talk about with our gm and the article you started the thread with. it would be nice to see more discussion about them. One sentence stood out to me in that article. the author thought we lacked weapons and Dorsey could be focusing on the offensive side of the ball.
I could see the opposite approach. with our defense rated as low as it is makes me think we need to add weapons to that side of the ball. an impact linebacker, a defensive tackle, an edge rusher all would seem to be a high priority to make us better next year. I think we should take a mid round cornerback every year to develop.
other than a wide receiver I do not think any offensive need exceeds those defensive needs. If Dorsey does as well this year in the draft as he did last year we should be really good. Obviously free agent signings will impact our draft decisions as well.
I went to pick up some take out at a local pub.... Sat down had a beer while waiting... Guys that I know were sitting around it was really funny that none, not one of them want Williams to remain as HC... I didn't get into the conversation because I knew I'd be leaving soon, but damn, why no love for Williams...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Driving to work listening to 850 ESPN, poll question: "Do you want Gregg Williams to remain head coach in 2019?"
76% YES
Seems that most negative response revolves around "Bounty Gate". I won't begrudge anyone else's feelings on the matter - but I couldn't care less. I'm not naive enough to think they were the only one's doing that... Just like I'm not dumb enough to thing Belichick was the only one looking for an inside edge by spying... or that Tom Brady was the only one dictating how he wants the balls inflated.
It's not cool, it is a little disturbing, it's also in the past. If people in the league didn't think he deserved a second chance, we wouldn't be talking about him right now - because he wouldn't have a job.
cal, there is a lot to talk about with our gm and the article you started the thread with. it would be nice to see more discussion about them. One sentence stood out to me in that article. the author thought we lacked weapons and Dorsey could be focusing on the offensive side of the ball.
I could see the opposite approach. with our defense rated as low as it is makes me think we need to add weapons to that side of the ball. an impact linebacker, a defensive tackle, an edge rusher all would seem to be a high priority to make us better next year. I think we should take a mid round cornerback every year to develop.
other than a wide receiver I do not think any offensive need exceeds those defensive needs. If Dorsey does as well this year in the draft as he did last year we should be really good. Obviously free agent signings will impact our draft decisions as well.
I tend to agree, Keith. My guess it we'll take DT or LB in round 1. Maybe a WR in Round 2? Of course that always depends on who's there when we pick. If Dorsey sees a CB (or someone else) he loves available in the 1st round he could go that route too. I would also expect him to do what he did last year, fill the holes (DT, LB, CB, WR, OL) in free agency and then draft who he likes best as they come to him in the draft. And yeah, he may pick up another DE at some point too, either FA or draft. I know this, I'm excited and far less paranoid about the off season this year with Dorsey at the helm.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
This year is much harder to predict on which position we will draft. As has already been mentioned, FA signings may change the complexion quite a bit.
We must also consider where we are drafting. We have no idea which positions may already be depleted by the time we draft. Since it seems rather obvious that DL has a lot of talent, how many at that position will have already have been drafted by our pick? Will possibly the 4th best DL be better than the top rated WR or second rated CB?
This year creates a lot more questions than answers IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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