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I hear this all the time in regards to who should be the starting QB for our Browns. So who really gives us the best chance to win now or in the future?
I'm going to start with the future which to me is the easy one and most of you will probably agree. Brady Quinn was drafted as the franchise QB to help this team win championships well into the future. With the high draft pick and the money he is being paid that should be a given.
Now to the hard part, the present. Savage has come out in the media and said that Quinn will not start the first game (which RAC should be the one making that decision) but reading between the lines he never said he would not play in that game. This game will set the tone for the 07 season and every game is important in an NFL season and more importantly, this season will more likely than not tell the future of Romeo with the Browns.
As far as best chance to win (if my job depends on it) I'm going with Quinn. In all reality this has all the looks of a learning year (no playoffs) and I want the future QB learning from day one.
Charlie Weiss has said that Brady is an NFL ready QB which is good enough for me and I'll bet it is good enough for RAC also!
Ask yourself, who really gives us the best chance to win now and it the future?
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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This has been rehashed a 1000 times already. My gut says Quinn could win alot of games for us this year. But it is not going to happen. Frye will have to play horribly for half a year before we see Quinn. If Frye plays well enought to keep us in contention for a play off spot we will not see Quinn at all. If Frye is injured early on Dorsey will play, if later then Quinn will play. When we are out of playoff picture this year Quinn will get some experience.
I don't like it... but it seems that is how it is going to pan out.
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I think Frye definitely gives us the best opportunity to win. He gives us a tough experienced leader under center. He played well in Denver, and I suspect he will play better in Chicago--giving him some confidence going into week 1, when he will face the Steelers---a team that he has seen a few times, and he can put that knowledge to good use.
BQ doesn't have this, he doesn't have intimate knowledge of the other AFC North teams the way Charlie has it. By intimate, I mean the type of knowledge you get by being in those shoes before, i.e. playing against them before. BQ doesn't have this.
Also BQ will go through a growing period in the league---no matter how "fast" a learner he is. He will still make some rookie mistakes that Charlie will not.
Frye is our best option to win games this year. Quinn needs some time to watch these other teams from the sidelines and prepare for when they finally hand the team off to him; from what I've seen of him--this will probably happen next year.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Savage has come out in the media and said that Quinn will not start the first game (which RAC should be the one making that decision) but reading between the lines he never said he would not play in that game
What makes you think RAC isn't making that decision? Geez Corpus?
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As far as best chance to win (if my job depends on it) I'm going with Quinn.
Let me get this right, you want to take a rookie, who hasn't had a full training camp and throw him in against one of the best defenses in a big game of Rivals? And you're doing it because your job may depend on it?
Sorry Corpus,, I can't agree with you at all...
You correctly point out that we've invested a lot in Quinn.. both a pick and money. With that in mind, why throw him to the wolves in a year that most would say we are an 8-8 team at best.
I like Quinn,, A lot to be honest. I like how he manages the team. I love how the players seem to respond to him (someone else called it the Quinn effect)
I want him in as soon as he's ready.,.. But he isn't ready today and won't be ready in 2 weeks.. Why get the kid killed.
For me, it's Frye!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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If Frye is injured early there is no way Romeo would survive the fallout if he didn't put in Quinn. No way. Just IMO
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/iVP5Po2.png)
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Sure he could.. But it depends on the performance of who he put in instead...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think Frye definitely gives us the best opportunity to win. He gives us a tough experienced leader under center. He played well in Denver,
I agree with you on the tough and experienced part but question the leader part. To me a leader makes good decisions in the heat of battle and I have not seen that in Charlie.
The last part of your statement really scares the hell out of me. The fact that he played well in Denver means nothing to me. There was two other QBs on our team that played as well as Frye.
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BQ doesn't have this, he doesn't have intimate knowledge of the other AFC North teams the way Charlie has it. By intimate, I mean the type of knowledge you get by being in those shoes before, i.e. playing against them before. BQ doesn't have this.
You are right but please tell me how Quinn will get this knowledge and how Charlie got this knowledge? It is buy getting they're first playing time right.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Ok.. this is what I think... with Frye, I think we are almost certainly a 6 win team.. plus or minus 1.... with Quinn, we could be a 3 win team... or we could be a 9 win team or anywhere in between. Quinn has had limited opportunities, against predominantly second team opponents... I think Quinn has done everything asked of him and more and he's done it well... but there is still a great deal of "unknown" with Quinn as to how much of that would translate into real life games that count for 60 minutes against other teams #1s with full offensive and defensive packages, packed stadiums, playoff implications (if not for us, for them)... etc...
yebat' Putin
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packed stadiums, playoff implications (if not for us, for them)... etc...
I agree with you on everything but this portion.
I believe if you check,The Irish has a stadium that holds more people than Cincy,Balt,Pitt,or Cleveland.
So the "packed stadium" issue is something he's quite familiar with IMO
And when it comes to playoff implications,I believe there's just as much pressure on college QB's when it comes to "bowl implications" as there is on pro QB's in terms of playoff implications IMO.
And when you look at the media scrutiny Quinn was under during his hold out,then look at his performances on the field? I don't think "performing under pressure" is a concern with Quinn from the evidence at hand.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think, right now, Charlie with his game experience and his experience within the division, the revamped O-line and a revitalized Jamal give us the best chance to win, providing the damn D can stop the run consistently and we can get to the QB on a regular basis... (This concerns me more than anything going into the season.) However, Quinn is obviously the guy for the future and he's shown he has the tools and mad skills. But I really don't understand what all the hoopla and discussion is all about, all the nail biting and worry... Come opening day, Quinn is one nasty hit away from stepping in there anyway... then he'll be one hit away from turning it over to Dorsey or DA so what's the big freakin' hurry to rush him in there?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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If Frye is injured early there is no way Romeo would survive the fallout if he didn't put in Quinn. No way. Just IMO
And that's the fans speaking. But if that happens...and it's too early in the year, (say Week(s) 1-4) Quinn could be or may not be ready. Who know's? We have 4 big games within the first few weeks....I certainly don't want to just toss Quinn out there vs. those tough Ravens and Steelers defenses. The Bengals I'm not worried about.. 
JHMO
Right Now, Frye gives us the best chance to win vs. Steelers. Later in the year, if were struggling, I say Quinn gives us the best chance...It all matters how the season plays out. IMO.
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Brady Quinn is the hype...
But I think BOTH could guide this offense and get some wins.....
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6 reasons
Pittsburgh
Cincy
Oakland
Baltimore
New England
Miami
5 of the 6 teams above have excellent defenses, the only outsider is cincy, who has an excellent offense.
Take your chances with Frye, he will sink or swim behind the revamped OL and improved running game.
If it does not work out, Quinn should be ready.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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if it ain't working out with Frye I think he'll be in there by week 5
<><
#gmstrong
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If Frye is injured early on Dorsey will play, if later then Quinn will play.
Dorsey ?????
Dorsey can't even get into the third pre-season game.... You know... the game that showcases the potential starters. It is not a lock that Anderson get's traded or cut.... There is a very good chance Dorsey could be gone too. Heck, there's even a chance that both Dorsey and Anderson will be gone, and the Browns will go with 2 QBs (like the Ravens did last year...). Waive both Anderson and Dorsey, then they could be resigned later, if the need arises and they don't get picked up by someone else..... 
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Weren't you the same guy that said we threw Couch to the wolves by not bringing him along properly?
Taking a rookie like Quinn who held out from camp for ten days and starting him against a defense which notoriously pins their ears back (even more so now with that weird 1-6 defense they have) would be throwing Brady Quinn to the wolves.
He's not ready yet.
Patience...
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I think, right now, Charlie with his game experience and his experience within the division, the revamped O-line and a revitalized Jamal give us the best chance to win, providing the damn D can stop the run consistently and we can get to the QB on a regular basis... This is nothing new to me..I've made my comments over the last few weeks on the QB issue.. Frye has beaten out Anderson , he's mobile and more accurate which ain't saying much , because neither is a pin point passer, they both have trouble hitting the ground throwing straight down ,let alone hitting receivers in stride on time and on target   The Browns seem reluctant to part with Andersons arm strength just yet and make excuses for his putrid play which is the real problem , he's become a Ben Gay with abilities to tantalize over , without the wherewithall to put it together when the lights come on . The bulb pops out at crucial moments.. I said before who do you want running the offense if Frye splatters with some grease(injury)? Mr Matrix?Yeah yall wish Mr.Anderson could fly and then go slow motion when he needs to touch drop a pass in Or the brain who has a limp arm Dorsey? Give me the brain..at least the offense can be modified so he doesn't have to use his arm more than needed..
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Also BQ will go through a growing period in the league---no matter how "fast" a learner he is. He will still make some rookie mistakes that Charlie will not.
Charlie Is In His 3rd Yr and He Still Makes Rookie Mistakes
He Made More Mistakes Last Year Then Anyone Can Remember 
On That Note, We Probably Arent Winning The SuperBowl This Year, So Who Ever "Earns" It, Deserves The Job.
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The evidence is that the coaching staff does not share your view.
Dorsey is the ONLY QB on our roster who was not even so much as given the oppertunity to take a single snap in pre season with the first string. Zip,zero,nada.
Dorsey,from EVERY indication we've seen,in no way plays a part of the back-up role.
It's either.................
Frye,DA,Quinn,Dorsey
or
Frye,Quinn,Dorsey
DA will be around untill they feel comfortable putting Quinn in the back up role. That could be Satuday for all I know. But logic dictates you don't "sit" your potential back up QB in week three of the pre season and give him strictly mop up time and third looks in the first two games.
Quinn has already surpassed Dorsey on the depth chart. Game three was evidence of that.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Well after reading many responses it seems many of you do not get the point so I will lay it on the line. In Charlie's professional career he has shown that he has committed more turn overs than touchdowns. Even in this preseason that is still true. For a team fighting to get out of the eternal basement of they're division, turnovers are killing us. I'm talking about a team that can't seem to score in the red zone (which has carried thru the preseason) and to have turnovers on top of that is a killer.  A prime example of this was our first preseason game against KC when Frye with a few seconds left on the clock right before half time tried to scramble for a touchdown. I sat there and very loudly said dumb, dumb, dumb because he just gave away 3 points which in the NFL alot of times could win a game. A QB that understands the situation would have thrown that ball into the stands so we would have had a shot at a field goal. Even though it did'nt go in the books as a turnover it was as good as one.  You all can state every reason in the world why Frye should be our starter but I will ask you two simple questions which I have asked myself. 1. Is Charlie the the best and most talented QB on our team? IMO NO! 2. Is there another NFL team that he would be the starter for this season? IMO NO! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Charlie offers the Browns the best chance to win going into the season.
Frye's performance of last year has to be considered with the lack of an OL (53 sacks and constant pressure) and the lack of a running game.
We have yet to see the results of the improved OL, addition of JL, and Chuds offense.
Tossing in another factor, e.g. Quinn, may mask problems.
Let Quinn sit for the first few games.
Cleveland fans are quick to blame the performance of the team on the QB. Sometimes that is a contributing factor, but not the total picture. Brees did not change in a phone booth between 03 and 04. It was the OL that was the difference.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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So answer the two questions. Come on Charger you really want to win now don't ya? I could sit here and offer every excuse in the world for Charlie's performance but I guess as the leader of the offense I expect alittle more for my Browns than a BELOW average performance and you must admit that his performance has been below average. But I don't blame Charlie what else would anyone expect out of a 3rd round pick from none other than Akron!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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What one perceives as excuses, another sees as reality.
History has shown that many below average QB's have led their team to Super Bowl victories.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
1. Is Charlie the the best and most talented QB on our team? IMO NO!
2. Is there another NFL team that he would be the starter for this season? IMO NO!
1. Best - yes, Most talented - No
2. Yes, Some possibilities Jacksonville, Minnesota, Oakland, Chicago, Kansas City, NY Giants, Atlanta.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Brees did not change in a phone booth between 03 and 04. It was the OL that was the difference.
No he did not but he was'nt that bad compared to Frye with a crappy OL either. And it did'nt happen between 03 and 04 he showed he had what it takes as soon as he took to the field. 2002 was basicly his rookie season!
2002 San Diego Chargers 16 16 320 526 60.8 3284 6.2 17 16 24 180 76.9
which was his first season as a starter.
Now compare those numbers to 03 and 04.
2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 262 400 65.5 3159 7.9 27 7 18 131 104.8
2003 San Diego Chargers 11 11 205 356 57.6 2108 5.9 11 15 21 178 67.5
He has been consistantly good since he has been a starter and might I add he also came from the Big Ten which in my book gives you much more competitive talent compared to the MAC every week! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Quote:
Quote:
1. Is Charlie the the best and most talented QB on our team? IMO NO!
2. Is there another NFL team that he would be the starter for this season? IMO NO!
1. Best - yes, Most talented - No
2. Yes, Some possibilities Jacksonville, Minnesota, Oakland, Chicago, Kansas City, NY Giants, Atlanta.
Dude I'm going to stand back and let you take the shots for number 2.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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I believe Charlie is much, much better than Cleveland fans give him credit for. Last year was his first year leading the team, and he had nothing to rely on. He came in and had his arm, his feet, his know-how, K2, and BE. He was still raw in the league, so you can't count on him to out think the opponent. We couldn't run the ball, so, unfortunately, the third-round, first-year starter was forced to make it happen---any way he could. He hoped to be bailed out by a second year wide-out coming off an ACL injury, and a fourth year TE with a bum knee. I think that a lot of his red-zone mistakes will be neutralized this year, when we run the ball more effectively inside the 20. I think that his completion percentage will go up, as BE will be a much better, HEALTHIER player this year. And I think Frye will benefit from better protection. With confidence in the line in front of him, he will be able to consistantly throw from the pocket. Something he rarely had the opportunity to do last year. And when he did get time, he couldn't really be effective b/c after scrambling so often to avoid pressure, he became very tentative in the pocket. Even with time, he'd be ready to scurry out of the pocket, b/c he had little confidence in the line actually holding their blocks. So without consistant protection and no way to move the ball on the ground---its impossible to say how good Charlie is. You can't judge a QB if he can't throw from the pocket with any kind of consistency, you can't judge a QB if he doesn't have the building blocks in place to allow him to find success in the league. If you have judged Frye as a poor QB based on last year, then that is foolish. He was on an awful team. He did the best he could as a first year starter. I don't believe any first year QB, paired with the team that we had last year; would produce any better results. Its absolutely crazy to think otherwise. That is why Frye has been given the green light to take the reins this year. RAC has known from the beginning of camp that Frye was his guy. He gave Anderson the chance to unseat him--knowing full-well that Anderson wouldn't; and here we go into the season with Frye the favorite for the start. Its funny that so many fans want Quinn to start, when there is no reason to start him!!! He isn't going to put up any more W's than Frye will. He doesn't have the experience Frye does in running an NFL O, reading an NFL D, or being the signal caller in an NFL game. And there is no reason that he needs to start gaining experience now. Frye is capable at the position, I believe he is more than capable---so Quinn is in a position where he has the luxury to sit and watch for awhile. For the whole season; and then get ready to challenge Frye for the job next year. Frye is our guy, and Quinn will hold the clipboard.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Frye could definitely start in Jax, ATL, Minnesota, Oakland, Chicago, or KC. I don't see him being able to unseat Eli though. But those other teams--he has more than just a "shot." I would think that he would be a favorite for the job over Tavaris, Huard, Harrington, or Grossman. And in Oaktown--if they had Frye--they probably wouldn't have even gone after Daunte. And without Daunte they would definitely start Frye.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
Frye could definitely start in Jax, ATL, Minnesota, Oakland, Chicago, or KC. I don't see him being able to unseat Eli though. But those other teams--he has more than just a "shot." I would think that he would be a favorite for the job over Tavaris, Huard, Harrington, or Grossman. And in Oaktown--if they had Frye--they probably wouldn't have even gone after Daunte. And without Daunte they would definitely start Frye.
You go ahead and think that if it makes you feel better.....The closest one on the list would be Minnesota....everyone else...there isn't a chance. Oakland would have been a close one except for Culpepper and now Russell. You can't say Atlanta as we were looking into the possibility of puting Harrington ahead of Frye here before he went to Miami. Not a chance against Huard(Croyle maybe), And Frye wouldn't beat out Kyle Orton much less Grossman. And when we inquire about Garrard who is backing up Leftwich...then I think you can count out Jax as well. The closest you can say is Minnesota...but think about this....We pounced on Brady Quinn to replace Frye...Minnesota had that chance to replace Jackson and passed....so do you REALLY think Frye would beat him out????
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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First off, Russell hasn't even signed in Oaktown. And secondly, we didn't necessarily "pounce" on Quinn. We picked Joe Thomas with the third pick---so obviously, we weren't as desperate to replace Frye as some believe. We eventually took Quinn due to how far he fell, and we believed that we could get him---and why shouldn't we? It was more of a supplemented pick than a planned out move. In other words---we never planned on taking a QB---but when the opportunity arose--we made a run at it, and came out on top.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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j/c but i wonder if quinn hadn't been drafted who we would've used that no2 choice on? eazy-e? what about our 3rd? guess we'll never know...
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All Pro
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And when we inquire about Garrard who is backing up Leftwich...then I think you can count out Jax as well.
And Jax on draft day called Savage asking about a trade for Frye. I guess you can put Jax back up, but then again ...
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j/c but i wonder if quinn hadn't been drafted who we would've used that no2 choice on? eazy-e? what about our 3rd? guess we'll never know...
#2 would have been Wright.
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Quote:
We eventually took Quinn due to how far he fell, and we believed that we could get him---and why shouldn't we? It was more of a supplemented pick than a planned out move. In other words---we never planned on taking a QB---but when the opportunity arose--we made a run at it, and came out on top.
Your point is well taken but I believe we started making calls to get a deal done with BQ somewhere around the 10-12 spot, the reason we took him at 22 was because there weren't any takers for the deals we were offering until Dallas. We wanted and needed a top 10 QB and got lucky BQ fell to 22 and that Dallas took the deal, even though it cost us our first it was well worth it because if all goes according to plan we won't be picking high enough again to get a top 10 QB for a long time.
Side note, not related to your post... all this talk about when Brady will start, (3rd week, after the bye etc.) reminds me of the talk when people were certain RAC would be gone this year and we'd have a new coach. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,648 |
You do realize that Brees was benched in 03 for poor play?
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,648
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,648 |
I guess I don't understand your bias against a MAC QB,
There are probably a half dozen of them in the NFL. Ben, Leftwich, and Pennington start.
If program meant everything, I guess Jerry Rice would not have been drafted.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
I have not heard ONCE about any talking with Jax for Frye...I heard we offered Frye to Detroit and they declined....but not once have I seen any information regarding Jax and an offer for Frye....
So my question now is was it BEFORE or AFTER we picked up Quinn...and exactly what were they offering in trade???? a 6th rounder????Fred Taylor???? I mean even if I take what you are saying as absolute fact....the circumstances for the trade could have been too ridiculous to even consider. And if we had already taken Quinn...Then there is an absolute need for QB as they have planned all along to not play Quinn right away....
Now Jax having an interest in Frye is not an indication that he would start. now obviously they are not completely happy about their QB situation....and Charlie might have been a guy that would have been "affordable" for them....But a trade for him only shows with certainty one thing....They are not happy with the current situation as it stands....That is the ONLY thing we know for sure....But if this took place...we don't know the situations of the trade....and if it was not going to be positive for the Browns then it should have been rejected...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
Quote:
First off, Russell hasn't even signed in Oaktown.
Boy and those Raiders have been really beating down our door to get a chance to get Charlie because Russell hasn't signed....Exactly what is your point?????Oh that Charlie could start in Oakland be cause he could beat a player who hasn't signed yet...I believe that was it....
Quote:
And secondly, we didn't necessarily "pounce" on Quinn.
Yeah what was I thinking about when we start inquiring at about pick 9 or 10....and we give up an extremely high Round 2 pick and what is likely to be a top 10 pick next year.....
I guess we just sat back relaxed and let him fall into our laps......
We selected Joe Thomas....we pounced on the opportunity to get Quinn....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496
1st String
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OP
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496 |
Quote:
And secondly, we didn't necessarily "pounce" on Quinn. We picked Joe Thomas with the third pick---so obviously, we weren't as desperate to replace Frye as some believe.
Oh so that must have been why we were pursuing Trent Green, to be Charlie's backup!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 |
Were we pursuing Green????
Did we sign him????
That is all rumor mill, no real substance to it.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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