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I started thinking about this maybe 8-9 seconds after we drafted Quinn and I'm not at all sure that I know what it means. I would think that the biggest definition of "ready" is knowing the offense to the point where one can just play and not think. Then I realize that I don't think I know what that really means either. (Plays, assignments, adjustments...you know...stuff I've admitted that I do not see or know.  ) So I ask you fellow fans to tell me what "Ready" really means and as it relates to BQ and how does one know when someone else is really "Ready". Please don't turn this thread into a "BQ should start/sit" thread...that's not what I'm after...I am simply curious what you think is the definition of "Ready".
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I think ready for me...breaks down into 2 catergories, knowledge of offense and teammates...and knowledge of opposing defenses.
1. A QB needs to know the offense, so that when a play is called, he knows his checkdowns, and every route run, and the timings of when routes will make breaks. He has to know how each of his teammates will run their routes so he can adjust his throws to cater to each players talents (dont hit Travis Wilson in the hands, make BE jump, ha). He needs to know where to direct the OL if a blitz or a certain coverage is coming, especially a blitz, which brings to point 2.
Knowledge of opposing defenses. Charlie Frye showed it when he adjusted with BE and hit the 8 yard slant. It was the first time I saw Frye do that. Maybe he's only now "ready." Anyway, when a QB can read where a defense will be to adjust his throw or maybe the play to beat the coverage or blitz. Being able to know how to react to a defensive setup is the most important part in being "ready."
And not to delve into this, but I think this is most where Quinn wouldnt be ready if we were to start him from day 1. This is where Frye I think has a leg up to this point. He can read D's because he's seen them, and this preseason, has shown me, that he is "ready"
"It has to start somewhere
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What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Ready is a COMPLETE grasp of your own offense, knowing where EVERYONE is supposed to be on the field for every play in the playbook. Pair that with a working knowledge of NFL defenses, and the ability to analyse and recognize these defenses on the field. Familiarity with specific defensive schemes prone to particular teams.
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My opinion would be that when he can call the plays and doesn't' have to think about where everyone should line up but rather already know than he would be ready.
He can't come to the line of scrimmage thinking about how to run the play. By the time he gets under center he needs to be looking at the defense and thinking about what they are going to do.
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Quote:
Ready is a COMPLETE grasp of your own offense, knowing where EVERYONE is supposed to be on the field for every play in the playbook.
Then none of our guys are ready ..... because they are all using wristbands with plays on them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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By your definition, we haven't had a ready qb since the return.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Hell,I don't "know" either.  I think it's "one mans cieling is another mans floor" type of thing. Everybody has a definition for the term. Sort of a "catch phrase" if you will. But I do know a few ingrediants that consititute readniness on the part of a young QB. Some of which can already be seen in Quinn even at this early stage. Here's some that Quinn will need to perfect from my point of view. Speed of the game When you play against an NCAA team,there's usually only a handfull of players on any given team that Quinn was facing,if that,that will make a an NFL roster. And in most cases,no more than two or three of them at best will be true "impact players" on an NFL roster. The NFL is the "best of the best" from years of NCAA players. So the speed,power and intensity of the game is at a much higher level than in the NCAA. A QB must adjust to this "much faster game" or he will be eaten alive on the field. Not only from the aspect of pressure from the oposing D's,but from the "openings" they see in the passing game. The windows of oppertunity to pass the ball are usually much smaller and close up far more quickly than at the college level. A young QB must adjust to these very real changes. Knowing the scheme. Now this trancends the playbook. Knowing the playbook per say is a lot of the equasion. But you also must understand your options and feel comfortable and let it become second nature as to how to execute those options should a play break down or your first two primary WR's be covered on a given play. Knowing the playbook and your options can be taught on the sidelines and in practice/pre season. But the comfort level and second nature part of it? Can only come with playing time IMO Now there are other very "real" factors that go along with "being ready",but as I said,some of those I can already see. Such as..........pocket awareness,demanding respect in the huddle,good decision making,accuracy,being able to lead and direct your players. These qualities usually come with time. Then there are those who have already developed these qualities and are natural leaders. I already see these things in Quinn. Which certainly puts him ahead of the curve in comparison to most rookie QB's Ive ever seen. Weiss did not overstate Quinns abilities. He is certainly the most "NFL ready" QB I've seen come out in some time. But he's still not nearly a finished product! JMHO
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I suppose when I think of ready in the "young quarterbacks" situation, I'm thinking as much about the readiness of our offensive line playing a big part.
I can't imagine being "ready" until like others said, "You have a solid grasp of the offense". Once ready in that aspect then you may be ready to learn the in and outs of the NFL defenses.
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To me, READY means knowing our offensive system and knowing what portion to apply in given situations..
I also, perhaps incorrectly, believe that some of that has to be learned "on the job" so to speak.. but some has to be learned in the classroom and on the practice field..
Quinn is not, IMO, ready for the "on the job" portion just yet. But I gotta say this at the risk of being kicked a couple of dozens times,, He appears to be further along than I would have ever thought possible at this point...
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I'm going to come at this from a slightly different angle.
The backup QB is one snap away from being the starter. One injury, late hit, or other misfortune and he is the starter. This could happen on any play, in any game. The NFL is a dangerous business.
If the "future" is "ready" to be the backup ..... then he's probably ready to be the present. JMHO.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Speed of the game
When you play against an NCAA team,there's usually only a handfull of players on any given team that Quinn was facing,if that,that will make a an NFL roster. And in most cases,no more than two or three of them at best will be true "impact players" on an NFL roster.
The NFL is the "best of the best" from years of NCAA players. So the speed,power and intensity of the game is at a much higher level than in the NCAA. A QB must adjust to this "much faster game" or he will be eaten alive on the field. Not only from the aspect of pressure from the oposing D's,but from the "openings" they see in the passing game. The windows of oppertunity to pass the ball are usually much smaller and close up far more quickly than at the college level. A young QB must adjust to these very real changes.
The one thing you hear almost every rookie say when asked about the biggest difference from college to the pro's,.....is the speed of the game.
The one thing I noticed in BQ is that he appears to have adjusted very quickly to the speed of the game.
He also appears smart enough to quickly grow into an offensive scheme and seems to already possess the leadership skills needed to earn respect from his teamates.
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By your definition, we haven't had a ready qb since the return.
Can you name any QB we've had that you think has been ready? I can't.
We've gone through so many QB's and Offensive Coordinators, it has been nearly impossible to be completely "ready". It takes a few years for QB's to be completely "ready", because it takes several years to understand and comprehend a play book completely.
You can be 'ready' but not completely ready. Once BQ gets a pretty good understanding of our play book, and gets a pretty good grasp of NFL D's (Which I think will come sooner than learning the play book), I think he'll be 'ready' to play, but he might not be 'completely' ready for another year or two with the same offensive scheme.
JMHO
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Ready is all dependent on a player's situation heading into the league, and from what he went through in college.
Quinn is "ready" in the sense that he ran a complex pro offense in college...but so did Charlie Frye. Playing in a pro style offense is HUGE for a QB, as they are more used to the reads. Now, playing in a wide open spread system (like Texas Tech's) inflates a college QB's numbers, but it also deflates his value in the pro's. In those kinds of offenses, someone is always getting open, and it just becomes exploiting a weakness in the defense.
What also makes Quinn more ready is that Quinn can hit an open place, where as Frye has a tendency to look for an open guy. This sounds silly, but it's like night and day. Almost every pro offense is built around timing, and throwing a place. College offenses are also, to an extent, but more so the QB is hitting the open guy (who has beaten his defender). Frye has gotten better at this, but Quinn is better in general (because of the offense he played in at ND).
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Quote:
I'm going to come at this from a slightly different angle.
The backup QB is one snap away from being the starter. One injury, late hit, or other misfortune and he is the starter. This could happen on any play, in any game. The NFL is a dangerous business.
If the "future" is "ready" to be the backup ..... then he's probably ready to be the present. JMHO.
That is certainly an interesting way to look at it... so by your definition, Quinn should either be the #1 qb... or the #3... but not the #2? Interesting logic.... While I had never thought of it that way, it makes sense....
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That's my very theory in my thinking about cutting DA.
Dorsey hasn't had a single snap with the first string. IF by any degree they considered him the #2,that certaily WOULD have happenned.
So if DA is cut,they think Quinn is ready. He may be the "named #2". But the problem is as was pointed out,your starter can get hurt on any snap at any time on any play.
So if you don't "believe Quinn is ready" you don't cut DA. If they DO cut him,they think "Quinn IS ready".
And IMO,we would stand a better chance of winning with Quinn,than we would DA.
JMHO
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There are other things involved with being the #2, such as more practice time than the #3, the possibility of entering a game during "mop up time", etc.
That being said, my feling is exactly as you described ... that Quinn should be #1 .... or #3. In fact, if he starts as #3, there probably wouldn't be as much yelling for the backup the 1st time Frye struggles ...... and he could quietly assume the primary backup role a few weeks into the season ... then start by the 2nd half of the season if warranted by the starter's play.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Ready is all dependent on a player's situation heading into the league, and from what he went through in college.
Quinn is "ready" in the sense that he ran a complex pro offense in college...but so did Charlie Frye. Playing in a pro style offense is HUGE for a QB, as they are more used to the reads. Now, playing in a wide open spread system (like Texas Tech's) inflates a college QB's numbers, but it also deflates his value in the pro's. In those kinds of offenses, someone is always getting open, and it just becomes exploiting a weakness in the defense.
What also makes Quinn more ready is that Quinn can hit an open place, where as Frye has a tendency to look for an open guy. This sounds silly, but it's like night and day. Almost every pro offense is built around timing, and throwing a place. College offenses are also, to an extent, but more so the QB is hitting the open guy (who has beaten his defender). Frye has gotten better at this, but Quinn is better in general (because of the offense he played in at ND).
His throw to Winslow to split the cover 2 was a PERFECT example of throwing to a spot where the receiver's supposed to be when he's not yet open.
I've watched that play at least 20 times and Winslow hasn't yet beaten the linebacker but Quinn still releases the ball where he's supposed to be and throws it in a spot where only he can get it.
That's an NFL play right there. The ball comes out quickly, even on the deep routes. He's processing the coverages already and knowing where the ball is supposed to go vs. a certain coverage, which I find phenomenal and is something I never thought I'd see out of him this early, especially after his holdout.
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Let me get this straight? Your pimping BQ because he threw deep to Winslow vs a LB and using this as an example of his NFL readiness? Anybody on our 53 man roster knows Winslow vs anonymous LB deep is a mismatch. Some of you guys are really really stretching to prove how "good" BQ is. Quote:
The ball comes out quickly, even on the deep routes.
And this, Have you timed it? because it looks to me like all our guys are using way more time than the position was afforded last year. And exactly how many passes have you seen Quinn throw deep now. 5 or 6 and your ready to make proclamations?
At least from Diam he has watched the kid for years, you late bandwagonners are just downright nauseating.
Last edited by RageDawg; 08/28/07 02:45 PM.
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Let me get this straight? Your pimping BQ because he threw deep to Winslow vs a LB and using this as an example of his NFL readiness? Anybody on our 53 man roster knows Winslow vs anonymous LB deep is a mismatch.
Some of you guys are really really stretching to prove how "good" BQ is.
That's not it, you're misinterpreting me. OF COURSE Winslow is a mismatch.
What made the play beautiful was the fact that Quinn anticipated him getting open, threw the ball quickly before he was open and before he made his break. The timing was perfect.
That's an NFL throw no matter which way you look at it.
Last edited by Ammo; 08/28/07 02:49 PM.
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Well fellas it goes like this..
They don't want BQ playing anytime soon.
So it puts the pressure on CF to play well and consistantly.
Next is if he gets hurt do U want DA running the offense or Dorsey?
Watch how U answer that..thats a loaded question.
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Anticipated? I would bet that Winslow was his hot read and he just chucked it downfield before the pocket collapsed. The kid has made some nice throws no doubt. But high and deep to Winslow on a hot read is not that impressive to me. ITs what he is supposed to do.
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Next is if he gets hurt do U want DA running the offense or Dorsey?
It's not a loaded question at all. Firstly,what "we want" has no bareing on this.
Secondly,our head coach has made it clear that the "QB competition" which would be between "who he percieves as our two best QB's" was between Frye and DA. Dorsey was no part of that equasion.
Thirdly,Dorsey is the ONLY QB we have that has not a had a "single snap in pre season with the first string".
So you advocate that RAC should use Dorsey? A guy he has never mentioned competing for the starting QB role. Has never taken a single snap with the first string during the pre season?
I think RAC has made it clear who HE sees as #2 behind Frye untill Quinn is ready. He has given him the time to prepare and play with the first team. Flat our proclaimed he and Frye as the "two possible starters" and I don't really see how our opinions or what we think will change any of that.
JMHO
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He's shown he has the tools to run the offense and make the plays, and he seems to be reacting to game speed pretty well, (from what we've seen which has been very limited). The open questions in my mind are, how well does he know the playbook, is he in sync with his team mates, and (and this is a biggie) how well can he read the defenses? Especially in this division. I personally, as a fan, am not anxious to see him against Pitt and the Rats at the start of this season. I don't think he's "ready" for that. I doubt the coaches do either, but who knows... Bottom line, he's ready when the coaches say he's ready.
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Anticipated? I would bet that Winslow was his hot read and he just chucked it downfield before the pocket collapsed. The kid has made some nice throws no doubt. But high and deep to Winslow on a hot read is not that impressive to me. ITs what he is supposed to do. No I guess it wouldn't impress you considering the the pass had to be put in a certain spot and with the right velocity..something none of our other QB's have been able to do down the middle . Guess our QB's do that all the time 
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Bottom line, he's ready when the coaches say he's ready.
There it is, all summed up in a single sentence 
Personally though, with the rate at which he SEEMS to be progressing, I would be surprised if he is NOT the starter after the Bye Week ... unless of course Frye is lighting it up, then it makes sense to leave Charlie in and build trade value.
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something none of our other QB's have been able to do down the middle .
It was in Winslows general area and at a decent depth. But not in a position to allow him to catch and run. It certainly wasnt on a spot. Winslow didnt have those 89 catches last year from the pitching machine.
His TD against Detroit to Hill I think, his pass to JJ against Denver, and a couple others were all very nice throws. They were very impressive. The dump to Winslow, not so much. What was more impressive on that play to me was his poise in the pocket, not the throw.
Last edited by RageDawg; 08/28/07 03:58 PM.
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GMAB..the only you're trying to do is downplay is if every QB makes that throw... It was in Winslows general area and at a decent depth. WTH is that? Decent depth?  It was put in a spot the LB couldn't get..right over the top down the middle..one of the hardest passes a QB has to make.. Most can't do it. But not in a position to allow him to catch and run. It certainly wasnt on a spot Guess that wasn't enough for you..  So the criteria is KW would have to catch while feet are on turf and he's running full stride.. What will U genuises think of next in your low list of criticisms?
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If your happy with general area passes to star receivers who manage to catch it,,, well more power to you. Criticisms? I dont know what generic QB argument your still holding a grudge over but it wasnt one with me. Im talking about a specific play that was mentioned.
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Please ..whatever QB debate I had with Pit has nothing to do with this..you act as if the completion was routine ..it's not a routine completition for most QB's.
Quinn made a throw I haven't seen any of our QB's do in a long time.
And thats not hyping him..it's giving him credit for it.
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Quote:
Please ..whatever QB debate I had with Pit has nothing to do with this..you act as if the completion was routine ..it's not a routine completition for most QB's.
Quinn made a throw I haven't seen any of our QB's do in a long time.
And thats not hyping him..it's giving him credit for it.
No it wasnt a routine competion. Heiden couldnt have caught that pass. It was a great catch by Winslow though.
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"Ready" can also be emotional maturity, physical maturity, leadership, respect of teammates, game preparation and of course all the other on-the-field abilities.
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No I guess it wouldn't impress you considering the the pass had to be put in a certain spot and with the.right velocity..something none of our other QB's have been able to do down the middle .
Guess our QB's do that all the time
That throw that Frye had intercepted at the end of the first half of the Detroit game was the EXACT same throw, we just didn't have a TE like Winslow in who could go up and get it.
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Not even close... the TE on Frye's throw didn't even jump because he knew he had no chance... Yao Ming on a trampoline would have had trouble catching that ball....
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Quote:
Well fellas it goes like this..
They don't want BQ playing anytime soon.
So it puts the pressure on CF to play well and consistantly.
Next is if he gets hurt do U want DA running the offense or Dorsey?
Watch how U answer that..thats a loaded question.
NO it's not a loaded question...
We ain't keepin' 4 QB's for one...So one of Anderson and Anderson are history...If it's Dorsey then we're just plain IGNORANT...U don't keep this kinda inexperience on the roster from top to bottom...And I see no VET coming in...
Dorsey MUST be the 3rd QB...Smart...Experienced...Who cares about the ARM as deep as 3...
This goes back to what "Y" said...Is Dorsey the 2 ready at any snap???...Quinn 3???...Or do we put Quinn at 2???...So that means he's READY to go on any snap...
We MIGHT keep all 4 and when Quinn's ready...Anderson is history...And it ain't gonna take long...Those that hope Quinn don't see the field in 07 are dreamin'...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
No I guess it wouldn't impress you considering the the pass had to be put in a certain spot and with the right velocity..something none of our other QB's have been able to do down the middle .
Guess our QB's do that all the time
That throw that Frye had intercepted at the end of the first half of the Detroit game was the EXACT same throw, we just didn't have a TE like Winslow in who could go up and get it.
No it wasn't, the ball to Heiden was MUCH higher. Winslow barely even jumped, he more or less turned around over the linebacker and raised his arms all the way. Could Winslow have gotten the pass to Heiden? MAYBE. But it was certainly no gimme even for an athlete like Winslow...the field level shot shows just how high that ball was.
I have the film on my computer and I've watched each play a good 5 times before replying to this. It would take one hell of a vertical to catch the one to Heiden.
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Hall of Famer
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I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 75,213 |
Quote:
We MIGHT keep all 4 and when Quinn's ready...Anderson is history...And it ain't gonna take long...Those that hope Quinn don't see the field in 07 are dreamin'...
BINGfrickin'GO!!!!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I disagree DC.
Darn it, why would you go and do that???? Now I have to go look up an endless array of stats to prove my point.....
yebat' Putin
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I'd like to see the video again, but IMO Kellen could've made that grab very similarly to how he snagged that ball from Quinn---b/c he absolutely skyed for that ball.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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If y'all are babbling about Frye's pass that sailed over Heiden's head and was intercepted against the Lions I think it was..... there is no way in hell Winslow or anyone else on this, or any other, team could have snagged that ball out of the air at the same spot on the field. That thing sailed on Frye the second it left his paws.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How do you define "Ready"?
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