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...and what's the purpose of this post? How far we've come on the line! Let's think positively about this.
If we can't run the ball effectively this year I'll be seriously scratching my head as to why.
-Joe Thomas has exceeded my expectations of a rookie left tackle so far, although it is the preseason. He had his biggest challenge this past weekend, but still seemed to do ok. The only major red flag in his game at this point is handling the bullrush. I see the pocket collapse slowly on his side, which I'd rather have than have a speed rusher blow right by him. This should be corrected by next year just by adding some weight/improvement with technique. I can think of more than a handful of teams off the top of my head that he'd start for right now as a rookie.
-Steinbach, haven't seen him yet with the Browns but I nauseatingly know what he's capable of with the Bengals. I'm hoping once he's back we can run left at will, especially against weaker run D's. He's agile enough to be a fill-in left tackle, and thrives at guard. Simply awesome.
-Hank Fraley is Hank Fraley, and that's a good thing. Lunch pale guy whose motor is constantly running and blocking downfield. He's not LeCharles Bentley in terms of strength and drive blocking, but he's been a part of great offensive lines in the past. He's not a weakness on this line, with two guards who do their job around him, a new playing weight and feeling comfortable in the offense, I think he's gonna thrive. Would start on most NFL teams.
-McKinney, I'm probably not the right guy to judge him. I haven't keyed on him much this preseason, all I can really say is that we've run to the right with more effectiveness at this point and I know I'm not the only one who's noticed that. From what I've noticed in my limited viewing of him he reminds me of another Fraley, just does his job and isn't a guy you lose with. Not sure where he stacks up against the rest of the league though
-Shaffer, probably my biggest question mark. He's played well one moment at RT and the next he gets beat by a Detroit Lions passrusher. He's still learning the right tackle spot, I remember Doug Dieken saying he's more natural with his drops from the right than he is the left. That surprises me considering he's still adjusting to the position. If he settles in he has the potential to excel at this position, but right now I'm tossing it up in the air. But if he's the weakest part of our line at this point, I'm all smiles. He's not even the worst RT in the division, even if he's no Willie Anderson.
This doesn't even include the depth of Tucker (who may start at RT or RG), Friedman, and the possible return of Bentley. Keep in mind depth-wise we once had Joaquin Gonzalez as the backup LT, now it's Shaffer, who may be below average there but has at least played the spot before.
So what's my point? There really is none except to take a step back and think about how much better off we are. I'll be amazed if we can't run the ball and protect the passer...in fact if we can't something's very wrong, but I think for once in our lives the O-line may not be to blame.
Last edited by Ammo; 08/29/07 10:35 AM.
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Oh look, the genesis of an O-line discussion! You started a thread, and didn't mention the quarterbacks???? That'll change.  It's nice to have an O-line that even in pre-season looks like an actual NFL line. It feels weird just thinking about it...
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Ya know what else I like about Joe Thomas being our starting LT?
He'll prolly do it for us for the next 10 years. how great is that? Even Steiny could be here for several years. We're doing the right things. Hopefully next year, we key on a bunch of OL and DL prospects in the draft. Thats whats left.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
Oh look, the genesis of an O-line discussion!
You started a thread, and didn't mention the quarterbacks????
That'll change.
It's nice to have an O-line that even in pre-season looks like an actual NFL line. It feels weird just thinking about it...
Hey, I was a left tackle in middle school and a center/guard in high school...the O-line is 2nd my main thing (D-line being first cuz I "made my money" at D-tackle). 
Nothing drives me nuts more than hearing my friends say every draft season "We need this runningback/wide receiver. He's gonna be so sick. Will you shut up about the line? With *insert receiver here* we can stretch the field and it won't matter who's on the line!" 
And yes, Lampy, it definitely looks like a real NFL line to me. I hope it's as good as advertised, so far I've been comfortable with the pass blocking, but not so thrilled with the running game. Hopefully Steinbach and some chemistry changes that.
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Quote:
It's nice to have an O-line that even in pre-season looks like an actual NFL line. It feels weird just thinking about it...
LOL.. I mentioned in a thread not long ago that turned into a "2008 needs" thread.. that it was really wierd seeing people talking about next years needs and nobody had OL in the top 3...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
"We need this runningback/wide receiver. He's gonna be so sick. Will you shut up about the line? With *insert receiver here* we can stretch the field and it won't matter who's on the line!"
70% of casual football fans right there.
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Quote:
Quote:
"We need this runningback/wide receiver. He's gonna be so sick. Will you shut up about the line? With *insert receiver here* we can stretch the field and it won't matter who's on the line!"
70% of casual football fans right there.
Or in my case that I deal with, former wide receivers. 
In the one case of my friend who didn't play but is a big draft geek, was pimping Russell hard based on his arm. He said "The guy can chuck it 70 yards downfield no problem." His roommate/my friend quickly jumped in and said "yeah but how often does that actually happen in a game?" He stopped talking after that.
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Amen to that... I'd much rather have a QB that can complete 7 ten yard passes, than a guy that can complete 1 seventy yard pass.
yebat' Putin
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Russell = Dante Culpepper.
The whole "big arm", "big QB" thing is a myth.
Was Jon Elway 6-5 270 lbs? or Brett Favre?
Nah
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"We need this runningback/wide receiver. He's gonna be so sick. Will you shut up about the line? With *insert receiver here* we can stretch the field and it won't matter who's on the line!"
70% of casual football fans right there.
Or in my case that I deal with, former wide receivers.
In the one case of my friend who didn't play but is a big draft geek, was pimping Russell hard based on his arm. He said "The guy can chuck it 70 yards downfield no problem." His roommate/my friend quickly jumped in and said "yeah but how often does that actually happen in a game?" He stopped talking after that.
I really wonder what meds you take, or need to take. ALL THIS OFFSEASON you were SCREAMING about taking a QB with the #3 pick and now you say that you hate when people say that and not talk about taking linemen. Man, I never knew Worldchamps became a Browns fan. 
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All Pro
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JT run blocks like a beast. That's why I wanted him at #3 so bad. He still has a lot of work to do on pass protection.
Friedmen is okay. He's another Andruzzi. Serviceable.
Fraley's motor is constantly going.
McKinney has looked a tad better than Coleman.
Shaffer has been a beast with run blocking. He's been the same old Shaffer on pass blocking though.
Back before training camp started I re-watched the Browns/Cincy games from '06. Steinbach looked like a beast. He should be a good one.
My big question with the run blocking is Vickers. From what I've seen of him so far this preseason is a lot of missed blocks leading up through the hole. I'm talking about complete whiffs.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"We need this runningback/wide receiver. He's gonna be so sick. Will you shut up about the line? With *insert receiver here* we can stretch the field and it won't matter who's on the line!"
70% of casual football fans right there.
Or in my case that I deal with, former wide receivers.
In the one case of my friend who didn't play but is a big draft geek, was pimping Russell hard based on his arm. He said "The guy can chuck it 70 yards downfield no problem." His roommate/my friend quickly jumped in and said "yeah but how often does that actually happen in a game?" He stopped talking after that.
I really wonder what meds you take, or need to take. ALL THIS OFFSEASON you were SCREAMING about taking a QB with the #3 pick and now you say that you hate when people say that and not talk about taking linemen. Man, I never knew Worldchamps became a Browns fan.
No, Coach, I really wonder what meds YOU take, cuz you seem to only see one argument I make.
The whole offseason I was screaming Thomas OR Quinn, with Quinn getting the slight edge cuz he's a QB. I would have been doing cartwheels either which way. I know for a fact I made that VERY CLEAR.
And I know for a fact that I never ONCE pimped Russell, or made some dumbass comment about his arm being so good that it'd make him awesome no matter what cuz he could just chuck it down field.
You really have tunnelvision, only taking what you want to hear and not what I actually say.
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I'm not laughing at you Ammo,, I'm kinda laughing with you. It is funny not to hear bad things about this line for a change.. Feels great doesn't it? Best think about this line if you look at it, we got two guys on the left side (assuming good healthy that is) that make us set for at least 5 years with Stieny and JT.. We may have our center for the next 5 years in either Fraley or Bentley. And if Shaffer can get it together (not really happy with him on the Right yet, but hopefully, he'll improve with time) he's young and can hold down that spot for the next 5 seasons as well.. Leaving only one real ? on the oline.. RG, and like you, I haven't seen McKinney do anything so you would notice.. and that's a good thing.. And here's a really nice thing to think about. If McKiinney just ok, when Bentley returns,,, we are set there as well. NICE. So, if Lewis is as good as he says he is,,, there isn't any reason I can think of that he won't get his 1500+ yards behind this line. And that my friend, will open up so much for this offense to accomplish... Just the thought of it gives me goose pimples  LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Hey, I was a left tackle in middle school and a center/guard in high school...the O-line is 2nd my main thing (D-line being first cuz I "made my money" at D-tackle).
Nothing drives me nuts more than hearing my friends say every draft season "We need this runningback/wide receiver. He's gonna be so sick. Will you shut up about the line? With *insert receiver here* we can stretch the field and it won't matter who's on the line!"
Defining irony: Your sig is a man crush on BQ not JT. 
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We once started Barry Stokes at Left Tackle You should have waited untill Halloween to revive this ghostly story. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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So, if Lewis is as good as he says he is,,, there isn't any reason I can think of that he won't get his 1500+ yards behind this line.
Daman, it's going to be real interesting those first few games because you KNOW that Pittsburgh and Cinci are going to stack the box to MAKE Charlie throw the ball.
How Charlie and Browns react to having 8 men in the box, for a majority of plays, those first two games will tell us all ALOT about this team, win or lose IMO.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Now youre REWRITING HISTORY. The "whole offseason: you were screaming for a QB. First it was Troy Smith, then after one bad game (much like with Frye according to you), you changed your mind and started screaming for Quinn. Don't make me embarrass you by pulling up all the threads where you were screaming QB and arguing with those of us that wanted Thomas. In fact, you argued against Thomas and for a QB saying we had to pick a QB with the #3 so that we could compete with the likes of Cincy, Pitt, and Baltimore and build the line later in the draft. Do you REALLY want me to dig through the posts and pull them out for you?
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1st String
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Quote:
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So, if Lewis is as good as he says he is,,, there isn't any reason I can think of that he won't get his 1500+ yards behind this line. And that my friend, will open up so much for this offense to accomplish...
That Would Be Sweet, And I Hope The Holes Are There For The Run, I Want To See That More Then Anything.
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Hahaha, Coach, this guy is pure comedy, unfortunately for him I believe its unintentional. Oh well, remember its also the same guy who switches back and forth from a Yankees fan to a Tribe fan more than Paris Hilton switches boyfriends. He also started out a Rams and Eagles fan. Pure comedy.
Eat it Phil...
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Ammo quotes... Quote:
But I'm leaning towards QB in the draft now if Thomas is off the board, and there's several reasons.
Quote:
I'm still worried sick about corner though, considering we really need to invest in the lines in this draft.
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At this point, here are our needs...
1) DL
2) OL
3) QB
4) CB
5) RB
We can't gamble the season on Frye and say "If we pick high next year we can draft a QB then."
If that happens, Romeo will be gone. And there's a chance Savage will too. The only possible way I see us picking high next year and keeping everyone in tact is if we draft a QB this year and he takes his lumps. Hence the excuse for losing is "We had a rookie QB starting, but he shows signs of promise for the future."
'08 looks extremely gloomy if we have to draft a QB in the first that year. I don't think we as fans or the regime itself can sit around and wait on that. This is really the pivotal year where we have to show massive improvement.
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Throw a 2nd day pick at KC and get him in here, then draft Quinn or Russell.
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If you want my opinion, nothing makes a bigger immediate impact that Peterson, and nothing makes a bigger long-term impact than Quinn.
I'd rather have Quinn as long as we definitely draft a round two guard.
Shaffer - Steinbach - Fraley - Round 2 - Tucker doesn't sound too bad to me.
Even better if we sign another lower-priced guard like Timmerman, but I wonder how much he has left in the tank. Either way, it's insurance and depth.
Drafting Quinn gives us an excuse if we struggle and buys Romeo and possibly Savage more time. No one else on that list does that.
That being said, I'd still love drafting Thomas. It's almost comical how I get slammed for supposedly not wanting Thomas on this board, whereas when I talk to my friends I support him more than anyone else. I can't win.
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QB, I think I've made enough of a stink about this one. Frye sucks, Anderson sucks, none of the available QB's on the market are impressive, only one with any upside is a reclamation project (Carr). I'd take a trade for Carr, to be quite honest. Still, I'm enamored with Quinn and Smith. Smith as a round 2 or 3 prospect (if and only if we select Thomas in round 1).
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That's if Thomas is off the board. If he's available, YOU BET I WANT HIM.
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If you're implying I want a QB over a LT, that's not the truth. I want them both equally. I want whichever one is there. And I highly doubt both Thomas and Quinn will be there when we pick.
I have given Ammo a lot of crap too, and he does change what he says to a point. The thing is we can go back and cherry pick certain posts to make it sound like any of us waffles. These post are over a couple of months and he was fairly consistant in his arguements. Sounds like he was torn between LT and QB in one and guard in the second.
I think we have beaten up on him enough for his Troy Smith days, although his comparison to LeBron was kind of funny.
#gmstrong
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I was enjoying reading them go back and forth, Then you had to go and bring the facts into it 
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I second that emotion P.
I'm not directing this at Coach though.
We have a lot of posters here that know a lot about the game.
Tab,Vers,Diam,You,ATTACK,Coach,Peen. There's a lot more I could add to that list so if your name isn't on it,that doesn't mean it shouldn't include you BTW
But that being said, if I were a much younger fellow, I would like to discuss the game,give my input and learn from guys like this. I'd like to feel welcome here too.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Ammo quotes...
Quote:
But I'm leaning towards QB in the draft now if Thomas is off the board, and there's several reasons.
Quote:
I'm still worried sick about corner though, considering we really need to invest in the lines in this draft.
Quote:
At this point, here are our needs...
1) DL
2) OL
3) QB
4) CB
5) RB
We can't gamble the season on Frye and say "If we pick high next year we can draft a QB then."
If that happens, Romeo will be gone. And there's a chance Savage will too. The only possible way I see us picking high next year and keeping everyone in tact is if we draft a QB this year and he takes his lumps. Hence the excuse for losing is "We had a rookie QB starting, but he shows signs of promise for the future."
'08 looks extremely gloomy if we have to draft a QB in the first that year. I don't think we as fans or the regime itself can sit around and wait on that. This is really the pivotal year where we have to show massive improvement.
Quote:
Throw a 2nd day pick at KC and get him in here, then draft Quinn or Russell.
Quote:
If you want my opinion, nothing makes a bigger immediate impact that Peterson, and nothing makes a bigger long-term impact than Quinn.
I'd rather have Quinn as long as we definitely draft a round two guard.
Shaffer - Steinbach - Fraley - Round 2 - Tucker doesn't sound too bad to me.
Even better if we sign another lower-priced guard like Timmerman, but I wonder how much he has left in the tank. Either way, it's insurance and depth.
Drafting Quinn gives us an excuse if we struggle and buys Romeo and possibly Savage more time. No one else on that list does that.
That being said, I'd still love drafting Thomas. It's almost comical how I get slammed for supposedly not wanting Thomas on this board, whereas when I talk to my friends I support him more than anyone else. I can't win.
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QB, I think I've made enough of a stink about this one. Frye sucks, Anderson sucks, none of the available QB's on the market are impressive, only one with any upside is a reclamation project (Carr). I'd take a trade for Carr, to be quite honest. Still, I'm enamored with Quinn and Smith. Smith as a round 2 or 3 prospect (if and only if we select Thomas in round 1).
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That's if Thomas is off the board. If he's available, YOU BET I WANT HIM.
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If you're implying I want a QB over a LT, that's not the truth. I want them both equally. I want whichever one is there. And I highly doubt both Thomas and Quinn will be there when we pick.
I have given Ammo a lot of crap too, and he does change what he says to a point. The thing is we can go back and cherry pick certain posts to make it sound like any of us waffles. These post are over a couple of months and he was fairly consistant in his arguements. Sounds like he was torn between LT and QB in one and guard in the second.
I think we have beaten up on him enough for his Troy Smith days, although his comparison to LeBron was kind of funny.
Hey, look, it's what I actually said! Not what CoachB claims I said!
Good investigative work PDawg.
So what do we do in the draft? We go out and get OL, QB and CB...coming into this season our DL is likely to be our achilles heel.
Watch Peterson in Minny...he's had some pretty awesome runs. Like I said, he'll have an immediate impact there, but is he best for a long term plan? nope.
And who else here feels REAL good about '08 because we'll have Quinn in his 2nd year? I know I do.
Oh this makes me laugh...the whole time CoachB paints me out to be a bumbling stumbling moron obsessed with QB's...the whole time I present a picture that's right on par with what other fans and even our own GM had in mind!
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Quote:
How Charlie and Browns react to having 8 men in the box, for a majority of plays, those first two games will tell us all ALOT about this team, win or lose IMO.
I don't think there is a question about them stacking it up to make charlie throw... But if ,,,,,IF he holds it together. If the LINE can give him a second more than it did last season... IF the receivers get open and CATCH the ball.. it will only take a couple of those to make them back off and play honest...
Lots of If's and lots of people need to do thier jobs for the if's to come around..
But for the first time, we have legit Linemen, a Legit Back and a couple of Legit Receivers (BE, KW2 and JJ) so maybe it will actually take place....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's sad to think that our OLine was formed with the likes of Barry Stokes, Joaquin Gonzalez, Paul Zuckaskas and Mel Fowler.
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Awww, ammo feels vindicated. Unfortunately (or fortunately for you, Ammo) the draft forum has been deleted and I can't pull up your posts where you said you wanted Troy Smith at #3 and draft OL in the 2nd round. Then you said you wanted BQ in the 1st and OL in the 2nd round. Then you did say, later on, that you would be happy with Thomas. But again, don't let the facts stand in the way of your denials. The bottom line is that you said you wanted these guys at QB over OL and to get the OL in the later rounds. You know it and I know it. If you are denying it now, you are lying.
Are you SERIOUSLY denying pimping Smith with the #3 pick? Are you SERIOUSLY denying pimping Quinn at #3? You see, that's NOTHING "on line" with what the GM did. He valued the OL first, like I did when you were claiming to pick a QB at #3 and OL in the 2nd round. The difference is he made a great deal to address both.....but notice that he didn't value the QB at #3, right alone with what I've said THE ENTIRE TIME....not waffling and flip flopping like John Kerry at election time. The only one that has made themselves look like a "stumbling moron" isn't somone "painting" you that way, it's hy reading your posts.
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Quote:
Awww, ammo feels vindicated. Unfortunately (or fortunately for you, Ammo) the draft forum has been deleted and I can't pull up your posts where you said you wanted Troy Smith at #3 and draft OL in the 2nd round. Then you said you wanted BQ in the 1st and OL in the 2nd round. Then you did say, later on, that you would be happy with Thomas. But again, don't let the facts stand in the way of your denials. The bottom line is that you said you wanted these guys at QB over OL and to get the OL in the later rounds. You know it and I know it. If you are denying it now, you are lying.
Are you SERIOUSLY denying pimping Smith with the #3 pick? Are you SERIOUSLY denying pimping Quinn at #3? You see, that's NOTHING "on line" with what the GM did. He valued the OL first, like I did when you were claiming to pick a QB at #3 and OL in the 2nd round. The difference is he made a great deal to address both.....but notice that he didn't value the QB at #3, right alone with what I've said THE ENTIRE TIME....not waffling and flip flopping like John Kerry at election time. The only one that has made themselves look like a "stumbling moron" isn't somone "painting" you that way, it's hy reading your posts.
For the record, Smith fell off my radar after the National Championship game. You know it, I know it. At least as far as #3 goes.
And ya know something? I still think he can be an NFL level player, just not right away. He's a 3 year project just like he was in college.
Will I deny pimping Quinn at #3? Absolutely not. For me it was like Romeo and picking between Frye and Anderson. Just flip a coin. So far they've both played so well that either pick would have been wise.
Would I have complained if we picked Thomas then waited and simply gotten Eric Wright in the second and a guard in the 3rd? Absolutely not.
You're making me laugh how you're painting this picture of me being a QB-only guy when I wanted attention paid to the O-line just as badly. It's the fact that I've been so vocal about how terrible our QB situation is that gives you that perception.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
It's sad to think that our OLine was formed with the likes of Barry Stokes, Joaquin Gonzalez, Paul Zuckaskas and Mel Fowler.
Not to be contradictory, but I don't think Fowler belongs on that list... he's never going to be a LeCharles type center, but he's an NFL caliber player...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
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Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
No, it's you swinging from one QBs jock to the next while wanting to address the OL with the 2nd round pick that gives you that perception.
Again, you let ONE GAME formulate your thoughts on a QB.
You just said you wanted Smith with the #3 pick until January. You said that you wanted Quinn with the #3 pick. Now, please explain to me how that is thinking right along with the FO? The FO had Smith ranked in the 5th round. They had Quinn rated far below #3. You're trying to save face. Give it up.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
No, it's you swinging from one QBs jock to the next while wanting to address the OL with the 2nd round pick that gives you that perception.
Again, you let ONE GAME formulate your thoughts on a QB.
You just said you wanted Smith with the #3 pick until January. You said that you wanted Quinn with the #3 pick. Now, please explain to me how that is thinking right along with the FO? The FO had Smith ranked in the 5th round. They had Quinn rated far below #3. You're trying to save face. Give it up.
I'm pretty sure you're the one trying to save face because you just got owned accusing me of things that aren't true.
I had two plans for the first two rounds when it came down to final draft planning time...Thomas/DL (or QB if someone dropped) or Quinn/OL...either one I was happy with. Troy Smith doesn't even factor in here...hell, some people wanted ALAN BRANCH at #3! People jump up and down on draft boards all the time!
And I'm not basing it on one game, if I based Quinn on LSU alone I wouldn't want him. It was a combination of factors, such as the combine and Senior Bowl.
My wishes addressing our needs have been consistent with everyone elses, but everyone has differing opinions.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
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Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
LOL, Smith DID enter into it. YOU WERE PIMPING HIM WITH THE #3 PICK. You just admitted it. You only stopped after the championship game. You have ADMITTED in this thread that what I said was true. Keep denying it after admitting it. It's childish and desperate.
I'm trying to save face? I stated that I wanted Thomas in the draft. I stated I wanted a DB in the draft. I stated that getting BQ was a great move and would allow CF to become a very good backup and strengthen our QB position for years to come. Everything I've stated has come to pass. You jump from flavor of the month to flavor of the month. So, deny whatever you need to in order to feel better about yourself. We all blasted you when you posted your absurdities and haven't forgotten no matter how much you deny it now. Say "nuh uh" one more time. I know your immaturity requires it.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 765
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 765 |
Is this thread getting hijacked by personal disagreements??  Oh yeah......when you think about where we have come from in regards to the O-line it is unbelievable. It has been a really hard to endure. As much as I KNOW that we have improved on the O-line, the only things that will truly erase the bad memories of the past is winning football games. It is time for the pendulum to start swinging in the other direction
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Leave Paul Zuk out of this...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567 |
Ammo, there's no point in arguing..Coach just caught you redhanded...even I remember your Troy Smith fanatical posts.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
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Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Eo, have you heard anything from Zuk lately?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Last I heard he was progressing from his Ruptured Disc surgery - btw he played with it in his final season with us as a starter...and couldn't get on the field with the 49ers the next year and got cut.
He's trying a comeback by playing in Arena football as that has been the best jumping stone to the NFL...at least told to him by his agent. But I haven't spoken with his dad in a while.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12 |
barry stokes was actualy a pretty good tackle he just needed to learn to use his strength more he was very quick off the line
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
I would've gone with Joaquin Gonzalez over Barry Stokes...Stokes was an alright guard for us and I never really considered him a punchline.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum We once started Barry Stokes at
Left Tackle...
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