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Campbell is interesting as is Bieniemy.
I don't think Riley is in the mix. I don't know of any "hints" that might have been dropped... And recent stories and such have eliminated McCarthy, Harbaugh, Flip, McDaniels, and Campbell.
Realistically, I'm not overly concerned who the next head coach will be but it's a fun discussion. We have Mayfield, so whomever becomes coach is going to be fine...
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Just something to throw out there; we have been talking about the next HC being offense oriented to match up with Mayfield. But, since Kitchens has done such a good job doing just that, couldn't that open up the possibility of a defensive minded HC who keeps Kitchens as OC?
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Of course it's all speculation at this point, but I think it will take a high bar to convince Dorsey to keep GW. Maybe two of the last three if we don't win out? Who knows? I'm not writing off McCarthy yet either. As closed mouth as Dorsey is, and as reticent as McCarthy is, I don't see how anyone but them can know anything about the situation at all. It would also be irresponsible to not at least have him in for an interview once the process begins. I know this, I don't want to play against him twice a year. I don't want you playing against him either.  As for Williams, if he already doesn't have a very good shot at being retained, my feeling is he never had a chance in the first place. Winning games is just screwing up Dorseys plan. I just don't buy that the guy has to win out. I guess we need to look at the long term. Maybe Williams is a average head coach who looks good because got to step in behind a complete idiot of a head coach. With Hue, the bar was flat on the ground.
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I have no idea where anyone writing these stories is getting there info from ... i think there speculating just as much as us ..
McCarthy info seems to be coming from his side ... so depending on who the actual source from his side is .. that MAY BE TRUE IMO ... the rest about Riley, Cambell, Flip or any of them is no better than the info we give on here ...
Its PURE SPECULATION ...
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I mean Dorsey and Baker are leaving all kinds of clues that it's going to be Riley. Riley continues to be your leader at 95%.  And...I'll say that Kitchens has the next best chance to be named the HC.
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Just something to throw out there; we have been talking about the next HC being offense oriented to match up with Mayfield. But, since Kitchens has done such a good job doing just that, couldn't that open up the possibility of a defensive minded HC who keeps Kitchens as OC? Anything is possible at this point. 
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Dan Campbell may be a name to watch. IIRC he was with the Dolphins as an interim
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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As for Williams, if he already doesn't have a very good shot at being retained, my feeling is he never had a chance in the first place. Winning games is just screwing up Dorseys plan.
I just don't buy that the guy has to win out. My "guess" is he never had a shot and winning out would force him into consideration.
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WHy is he too old? I see Arians as the best option, as he will keep Freddie on staff, and in a few years Freddie can take over. Its a win/win.
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WHy is he too old? I see Arians as the best option, as he will keep Freddie on staff, and in a few years Freddie can take over. Its a win/win. He literally just retired for health reasons.
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Serious question that I think really needs definition and I'm not sure I know an answer: Just what is "a 'GREAT' HC"??
In thinking about it, my two cents is this (take with several grains of salt): a "GREAT" HC won't care about being saddled with an OC he didn't choose as long as that OC has shown himself to be competent. A great leader, which is what a HC is supposed to be - a manager and a leader, recognizes other leaders within his ranks and makes use of them and their strengths. A great leader is not so hindered by his ego that that he won't or can't work with people he doesn't hand-pick as long as those people are competent. That, however takes a modicum of humility and that isn't a common trait in the NFL.
That said, the NFL is cutthroat and all coaches are worried about guys that are not their guys backstabbing to try to climb the ladder.... but, that is where Kitchens sets himself apart, I think.
Those are all very good points, and I agree, outside of the NFL for the most part. You have to remember, HC positions typically are a 3-5 year gig, But, we aren't looking for average.... we've had our fill of average and below average. GREAT. The guys that stick with a team for a decade-plus. That's who we're looking for, and aside from having success - what is it that sets them apart?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Just something to throw out there; we have been talking about the next HC being offense oriented to match up with Mayfield. But, since Kitchens has done such a good job doing just that, couldn't that open up the possibility of a defensive minded HC who keeps Kitchens as OC? Absolutely. There is literally zero reason to think you have to have an offensive-minded HC to go with your new QB. Not one legitimate reason to think it is required. That's precisely what the Offensive Coordinator is for.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Can we please just not hired a guy who is hell bent on swapping our defense back to a 3-4?
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Can we please just not hired a guy who is hell bent on swapping our defense back to a 3-4?
Dorsey will take that in to consideration when making the selection.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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WHy is he too old? I see Arians as the best option, as he will keep Freddie on staff, and in a few years Freddie can take over. Its a win/win. He literally just retired for health reasons. so did urban. He literally said he wants to coach again as well, you know that right?
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Serious question that I think really needs definition and I'm not sure I know an answer: Just what is "a 'GREAT' HC"??
In thinking about it, my two cents is this (take with several grains of salt): a "GREAT" HC won't care about being saddled with an OC he didn't choose as long as that OC has shown himself to be competent. A great leader, which is what a HC is supposed to be - a manager and a leader, recognizes other leaders within his ranks and makes use of them and their strengths. A great leader is not so hindered by his ego that that he won't or can't work with people he doesn't hand-pick as long as those people are competent. That, however takes a modicum of humility and that isn't a common trait in the NFL.
That said, the NFL is cutthroat and all coaches are worried about guys that are not their guys backstabbing to try to climb the ladder.... but, that is where Kitchens sets himself apart, I think.
Those are all very good points, and I agree, outside of the NFL for the most part. You have to remember, HC positions typically are a 3-5 year gig, But, we aren't looking for average.... we've had our fill of average and below average. GREAT. The guys that stick with a team for a decade-plus. That's who we're looking for, and aside from having success - what is it that sets them apart? Honestly - 2 things. 1. A QB that is Elite and 2. Discipline I think outside of BB, there are a lot of coaches that are overrated. Tomlin in Pittsburgh is one. Take away Ben they struggle mightily. He cant beat under .500 teams, always have a ton of penalties, and cant manage a clock to save his life (did you watch them let oak bleed the clock down without taking a TO allowing them to win the game?) They constantly lack discipline and have had a poor defense once the Cowher players retired/left. I think he is vastly overrated. He would be a benefit of Ben. You then have guys like John Harbaugh. The dude just wins no matter who or what or how his QB is playing it seems. They are ready to play, ready to win at all times. THey may not have the offensive talent to win, but they are always there and consistent. If you gave him Ben, or Brady, or Brees, they have 3 or 4 SB IMO by now.
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Just something to throw out there; we have been talking about the next HC being offense oriented to match up with Mayfield. But, since Kitchens has done such a good job doing just that, couldn't that open up the possibility of a defensive minded HC who keeps Kitchens as OC? Absolutely. There is literally zero reason to think you have to have an offensive-minded HC to go with your new QB. Not one legitimate reason to think it is required. That's precisely what the Offensive Coordinator is for. The reason you don't, is because this is an offensive oriented league. Any good OC is going to get offers and eventually leave - leaving you holding your hat and possible having to change your offense. If you hire the offensive guy, your offense is there as long as the HC is there. At least that's the theory, IMO.
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WHy is he too old? I see Arians as the best option, as he will keep Freddie on staff, and in a few years Freddie can take over. Its a win/win. What happens when/if the Browns offense puts up big numbers next year and Kitchens is then offered a HC job on another team? The Browns are then stuck with Arians who already has retired once due to health reason, Kitchens is gone and the long term plan is out the window. Hiring Arians with the romantic notion that Kitchens would patiently wait his turn to take over in 3 or so years seems rather short-sighted. I think there is very little chance Arians is a legitimate candidate for the Browns.
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Just something to throw out there; we have been talking about the next HC being offense oriented to match up with Mayfield. But, since Kitchens has done such a good job doing just that, couldn't that open up the possibility of a defensive minded HC who keeps Kitchens as OC? Absolutely. There is literally zero reason to think you have to have an offensive-minded HC to go with your new QB. Not one legitimate reason to think it is required. That's precisely what the Offensive Coordinator is for. I don't think that we need to have an offensive minded HC, I just think that we'll have one. Dorsey has never worked with a HC who was not an offensive minded coach... but I think Dorsey knows what the coach's make-up must be to succeed... And I think I misspoke earlier... Dorsey has never hired his own coach... and this opportunity might be the first and last time Dorsey can make that call... so I suspect he will as opposed to keeping someone like Williams around... but you never know.
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Can we please just not hired a guy who is hell bent on swapping our defense back to a 3-4? Who would that be?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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What happens when/if the Browns offense puts up big numbers next year and Kitchens is then offered a HC job on another team? Then you extend his contract giving him a ton of money and let him know the team is his in the waiting. hes not going to leave a team with Baker on it when he knows in a year or two he can take this team over. I wouldn't be concerned with that. Freddie is an old school guy, I see him wanting to stay here as long as he can, and I see him being a loyal person. He knows he got his break here. Regardless of the circumstances, it still came here. Hiring Arians with the romantic notion that Kitchens would patiently wait his turn to take over in 3 or so years seems rather short-sighted. I think its short sighted to think that you know the type of person Freddie Kitchens is, and what he would do.
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I don't think we NEED one either, its just the way of the league right now, and a big reason is why is what I posted.
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Just something to throw out there; we have been talking about the next HC being offense oriented to match up with Mayfield. But, since Kitchens has done such a good job doing just that, couldn't that open up the possibility of a defensive minded HC who keeps Kitchens as OC? Absolutely. There is literally zero reason to think you have to have an offensive-minded HC to go with your new QB. Not one legitimate reason to think it is required. That's precisely what the Offensive Coordinator is for. The reason you don't, is because this is an offensive oriented league. Any good OC is going to get offers and eventually leave - leaving you holding your hat and possible having to change your offense. If you hire the offensive guy, your offense is there as long as the HC is there. At least that's the theory, IMO. Coaches with a defensive background don't have an idea of the kind of offense they would want and can't hire OC's to run that system for them? I would think a DC would have a really good idea of the types of offenses he hates to go up against and thus would want his team employing. More importantly, if you are hiring a guy to be your HC and he is only good at thinking on one side of the ball, you do NOT have the right guy. The point is, the HC will will always be hiring OC's & DC's to run the systems they want. Look at Belichick.... it doesn't matter which side of the ball it is, when one guy leaves, another steps in and takes the reins, running it the way Bill wants it. Bill has a defensive background, but has no troubles putting an explosive offense on the field.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Theres many ways to skin a cat ... Just sayin ... 
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Coaches with a defensive background don't have an idea of the kind of offense they would want and can't hire OC's to run that system for them?
I would think a DC would have a really good idea of the types of offenses he hates to go up against and thus would want his team employing. More importantly, if you are hiring a guy to be your HC and he is only good at thinking on one side of the ball, you do NOT have the right guy. Im just stating how the league is, bro. don't shoot the messenger. Look at the majority of HC hires, they are offensive coaches lately. I actually agree with you. I think a great HC has his thumb on both sides of the ball and is good enough to do so. That's why I like ST coaches a lot. They typically have a pulse for both sides of the ball. The point is, the HC will will always be hiring OC's & DC's to run the systems they want. Look at Belichick.... it doesn't matter which side of the ball it is, when one guy leaves, another steps in and takes the reins, running it the way Bill wants it. Bill has a defensive background, but has no troubles putting an explosive offense on the field. Bill is always the exception to the rule too  Not really a fair example, as coaches like BB come around every what 20 30 years?
Last edited by willitevachange; 12/11/18 12:56 PM.
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I'm not posting this because I want him, but because his name has been tossed around.
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Confirmed ... the source I always use ... just hasn’t filled in yet ... i thought Zimm was gonna fire him last night with some of the looks he shot his way ... *L* ..
John DeFilippo - C - Free Agent
Vikings fired OC John DeFilippo.
Related: Vikings
Dec 11 - 11:58 AM
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Quite the fall from grace.
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I don't really get the Eric Bienemy thoughts. If that is who we are looking at might as well keep Kitchens and give him the HC job. They have about the same experience and Kitchens and Baker already have a good relationship. And Kitchens is 5 years younger.
I have thought Dan Campbell might be a good choice. Or as another poster mentioned Pete Carmichael Jr. but neither seem to have ties to Dorsey.
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I'm not posting this because I want him, but because his name has been tossed around.
I don't get the conversations putting his name out there. He's unqualified as an OC, can't imagine why we'd consider hiring him as the HC.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Vikings OL wasn't giving Cousins or the team any time to run DeFillippo's offence ... but yeah, I do not see him as a HC. Not a successful one at this time anyway.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Seattle's D was pretty fired up, but I still don't get why Flip got his shot here in the first place. I'm guessing it was because Pettine had a hard time putting together a staff.
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What happens when/if the Browns offense puts up big numbers next year and Kitchens is then offered a HC job on another team? Then you extend his contract giving him a ton of money and let him know the team is his in the waiting. hes not going to leave a team with Baker on it when he knows in a year or two he can take this team over. I wouldn't be concerned with that. Freddie is an old school guy, I see him wanting to stay here as long as he can, and I see him being a loyal person. He knows he got his break here. Regardless of the circumstances, it still came here. Hiring Arians with the romantic notion that Kitchens would patiently wait his turn to take over in 3 or so years seems rather short-sighted. I think its short sighted to think that you know the type of person Freddie Kitchens is, and what he would do. In order to keep Kitchens, you suggest paying him HC money and extending his contract? So in that scenario, what is the point in naming Arians the HC? I mean, you are paying Kitchens HC money, extending his contract, you're basically telling him he's going to be the HC, just not today. Why again are the Browns even hiring Arians? This makes very little sense and only reinforces my opinion that Kitchens has a much higher chance of being named the HC and that there is very little to no chance that Arians has to become the HC of the Browns. Then you say my view is shortsighted because I presume to know what Freddie Kitchens would do. This is right after your previous sentence presumes to know exactly what type of guy Freddie Kitchens is and what he would do. Bottom line, in my opinion, Arians has about .00001% of coaching this team. Possibly less of a chance.
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I don't get the conversations putting his name out there. He's unqualified as an OC, can't imagine why we'd consider hiring him as the HC. I liked DeFilipo when he was our OC (and replaced Shannahan). The one thing with him is that he never seemed to run the ball. With Shannahan, we had this great running attack with the zone blocking scheme he so effectively employs. With DeFilip, I thought the offense was a bit more exciting but that he could run the ball more. From what I've read, I don't think he's employed the running game anymore. Not sure what the point is to sign Latavius Murray and draft Dalvin Cook if you're not going to run the ball. Just to put it in perspective, they've run 274 times this year. We've got 341.
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In order to keep Kitchens, you suggest paying him HC money and extending his contract?
So in that scenario, what is the point in naming Arians the HC? I mean, you are paying Kitchens HC money, extending his contract, you're basically telling him he's going to be the HC, just not today. Why again are the Browns even hiring Arians? I never said give him HC money, I said give him an extension and throw money at him. Big difference, for one. Words have meanings. I also am not naïve to think that just because Kitchens has had some success as our OC lately, means he is ready or even capable of being a HC. I think before you name Kitchens the HC, you need to make sure he is ready and capable. I don't think you can judge that on a few games. If you can, you are in the wrong business and need to call jimmy right away. Please, save us. JMO. Bottom line, in my opinion, Arians has about .00001% of coaching this team. Possibly less of a chance. Well the, why all the discussion, milk man spoken let it be done. I mean, he can already know a successful HC after a few games anyway. . . . 
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Not sure what the point is to sign Latavius Murray and draft Dalvin Cook if you're not going to run the ball. Just to put it in perspective, they've run 274 times this year. We've got 341. True, but how many games have they been down in and had to pass. Have to take that into consideration as well.
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Just something to throw out there; we have been talking about the next HC being offense oriented to match up with Mayfield. But, since Kitchens has done such a good job doing just that, couldn't that open up the possibility of a defensive minded HC who keeps Kitchens as OC? Absolutely. There is literally zero reason to think you have to have an offensive-minded HC to go with your new QB. Not one legitimate reason to think it is required. That's precisely what the Offensive Coordinator is for. The reason you don't, is because this is an offensive oriented league. Any good OC is going to get offers and eventually leave - leaving you holding your hat and possible having to change your offense. If you hire the offensive guy, your offense is there as long as the HC is there. At least that's the theory, IMO. That's exactly why you Grow your Own Offensive coaches....
#GMSTRONG
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Well the, why all the discussion, milk man spoken let it be done. I mean, he can already know a successful HC after a few games anyway. . . . I never stated Kitchens would be a successful HC after a few games. The point was, if the end game was to ultimately have Kitchens as your HC, hiring Arians makes little sense and I laid out the reasons why that was the case in my opinion. Words have meaning, right?
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In order to keep Kitchens, you suggest paying him HC money and extending his contract?
So in that scenario, what is the point in naming Arians the HC? I mean, you are paying Kitchens HC money, extending his contract, you're basically telling him he's going to be the HC, just not today. Why again are the Browns even hiring Arians? I never said give him HC money, I said give him an extension and throw money at him. Big difference, for one. Words have meanings. I also am not naïve to think that just because Kitchens has had some success as our OC lately, means he is ready or even capable of being a HC. I think before you name Kitchens the HC, you need to make sure he is ready and capable. I don't think you can judge that on a few games. If you can, you are in the wrong business and need to call jimmy right away. Please, save us. JMO. Bottom line, in my opinion, Arians has about .00001% of coaching this team. Possibly less of a chance. Well the, why all the discussion, milk man spoken let it be done. I mean, he can already know a successful HC after a few games anyway. . . . You really have no idea what kind of coach is going to succeed, until they get the job. Many established assistant coaches and coordinators fail, and a guy who has mainly been a position coach, like Tomlin, manages to run the team effectively and successfully. Look for leadership. You can hire the technical geniuses for assistants.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,039
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,039 |
Well one thing i think one would have to admit.
If you hire a HC such as Kitchens or let's say Riley, you're making a hiring based on very little evidence. So while you are correct that there's no way to say they won't succeed, you're taking one helluva gamble based on a small window.
That's certainly a feast or famine move.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Head Coach Search Part IV
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