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Whats that mean ... *L* ... Good god do i feel stupid ... Crap ... let me go google in and see what goes into the stat ... I HATE wanting to learn this stuff ... *L*... Thanks Memph ... appreciate it ... 
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Add to that Peppers SUCKED ... not even sure how u can count him as he started every play in what seemed like the LAKE ... Who put him there?
Tackles are tackles.
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Where do u guys go for next gen stats? ...
Is there a single site or u just piece together tweets?
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I’d imagine Gregg ... at least i’d Hope so .. *L* .. I dont really wanna re-hash this ... i stood out of it forever and now its irrelivent ... I just need to vent on this when i see way way out there stuff .. Enjoy your convo with Pit ... i may be back tomorrow ... for that part ... Interested in the stat convo ...
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Add to that Peppers SUCKED ... not even sure how u can count him as he started every play in what seemed like the LAKE ... MG was healthy for almost the entire first game ... then ... he missed multiple games ... How many game droid Ogbah play last year? ... Obi doesnt even look like the same player this year ... i’m Sure that had ZERO to do with the natural 2nd year leap many take and had EVERYTHING To do with Hue being a CRAPPY COACH ....  ... And QB Pit ... Naaaaaa ... any other coach would have had Kizer in the Pro Bowl last year ...  ... I’ve said it before ... Hue gave the HATERS plenty of ammo ... crap like this just shows there animosity towards Hue .. and why IMO ... U have about 5 RASTAS when it comes to Hue ...  ... Despite all that youth, the defense was still middle-of-the-road. They were led by a defensive coordinator who has always gotten his players to play hard. For all the grief he's gotten, he did win a Super Bowl as defensive coordinator. Teams have to play with sub-par QB situations all the time. Bills with Josh Allen, Jets with McCown or Darnold, Dolphins with whoever when Tannehill went down, Ravens with Jackson (another rookie), Jaguars with Bortles, Redskins with whoever now that Smith and McCoy are done for the year, Eagles won a Super Bowl last year playing the last games of the regular season and entire playoffs with their backup, Eli is over the hill, Cardinals with Rosen, 49ers with Nick Mullens. This happens to teams every year. They don't have a franchise QB (or they do and he gets injured), their backups aren't ready, they force rookies into action too soon, and so on. They all seem to win a few games anyway. The most successful organizations-- meaning the Patriots, and to a lesser extent the Steelers, have managed to have winning records during Brady's and Roethlisberger's extended injuries/suspensions. I have to think that if I were coaching a player with Kizer's physical skills, and I had a line in front of him of Joe Thomas (half a season anyway), Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Kevin Zeitler, with Vers filling in at right tackle, I could get more out of him than Hue did. But I digress. It's Williams's team for now. And he now has the ability to, for example, correct his rookie corner's tackling technique without being reprimanded in the media.
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I’d imagine Gregg ... at least i’d Hope so .. *L* .. I dont really wanna re-hash this ... i stood out of it forever and now its irrelivent ... I just need to vent on this when i see way way out there stuff .. Enjoy your convo with Pit ... i may be back tomorrow ... for that part ... Interested in the stat convo ... FootballOutsiders has long been a good one. FootballCommentary is another. I seem to remember they had a good 4th down model-- one of a dozen or more different game models or analytics approaches that come from different angles but always have the same basic conclusion: NFL coaches are the biggest cowards ever on 4th down. Advanced NFL Stats used to be another, though I think they changed their name or merged with someone. Search results suggest it's Advanced NFL Analytics now. ESPN and 538 have some good stuff occasionally. There are others as well. Sometimes you can pull up stuff on Google. Maybe it's good, maybe it's not. That's for you to let us know. 
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I really dont wanna do this ... i feel obligated to point a few things out .. - go look at all the teams u mentioned ... u will find one or both of these to be true when comparing them to us last year ... 1. NONE of the QB’s those teams went to is near as BAD or INEXPERIENCED as our entire room was last year ... 2. They had WAY MORE TALENT ... OK .. some had way more .. some had more ... some may have even been as inept as ours but they had way more talent around them ... see the Rats for example .. how could u use therm with a straight face dawg ... u play poker ... ... How can u put the rats in the same sentance as us TALENT WISE last year ... AGAIN ... like cfr did ... u want to boil it down to ONE THING .. U guys are gonna make me come up with a new saying along the lines of STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ... the way u guys are framing “arguments” within a debate is not good ... U wanna boil this down to ... Our QB sucked but other teams had PROBLEMS at the qb position yet won anyhow therefore HUE sucks even more ... naaa ... not good dawg .... Those teams had WAY MORE EXPERIENCED TALENT around said QB ... and go ahead and tell me who off that list is NOT BETTER THAN KIZER, KESSLER or HOGAN ... and thats a pretty bad list to start with ... theres some u may have me on ... *L* ... Lamar Jackson if he couldnt run ... but once u take his legs into account ... its a NO BRAINER ... u could prolly put Vers at QB for the rats this year and they’d of won a few games ... i’m Betting he’s a better QB than RT ... but i could be wrong ... HI VERS ... ... OK .. please only reply to my stat questions ... ty ... *LOL* ... ya, like thats gonna work ... And i thought Hue handled Kizer HORRIBLY last year ... in that he benched him during a game or two and then let Hogan start one ... Hue did not handle him well IMO ... problem is .. HE HAD NUTTIN ELSE ... Now i’m Gonna here from some menZa about Kessler beating the colts last week ... ya .. Cody did a hell of a job playing D last week ... *LOL* ...
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There's also ProFootballFocus, a site that has gone mainstream in the last year but has had a lot of good info on the site for many years. Some of that is analytics, some of it is more old-fashioned grading, so you get some of both there (a good thing if you ask me.)
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Ty sir ... I will let u know when i find good stuff ... I want to prepare and be ready for DFS next season ... STATS will play an integral part of my research week to week ... Can u believe i just said that ... ...
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It's a good idea. The reality is we don't do this for a living (or I don't anyway!), I don't have time to watch every team play every game. It's ok to rely on stats and other people's interpretation sometimes.. heck, even the people in charge (NFL GMs and the like) are relying on stats/analytics more and more.
Get a good understanding of it all and it should only help you in DFS..
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I really dont wanna do this ... i feel obligated to point a few things out .. - go look at all the teams u mentioned ... u will find one or both of these to be true when comparing them to us last year ... 1. NONE of the QB’s those teams went to is near as BAD or INEXPERIENCED as our entire room was last year ... 2. They had WAY MORE TALENT ... OK .. some had way more .. some had more ... some may have even been as inept as ours but they had way more talent around them ... see the Rats for example .. how could u use therm with a straight face dawg ... u play poker ... ... How can u put the rats in the same sentance as us TALENT WISE last year ... AGAIN ... like cfr did ... u want to boil it down to ONE THING .. U guys are gonna make me come up with a new saying along the lines of STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ... the way u guys are framing “arguments” within a debate is not good ... U wanna boil this down to ... Our QB sucked but other teams had PROBLEMS at the qb position yet won anyhow therefore HUE sucks even more ... naaa ... not good dawg .... Those teams had WAY MORE EXPERIENCED TALENT around said QB ... and go ahead and tell me who off that list is NOT BETTER THAN KIZER, KESSLER or HOGAN ... and thats a pretty bad list to start with ... theres some u may have me on ... *L* ... Lamar Jackson if he couldnt run ... but once u take his legs into account ... its a NO BRAINER ... u could prolly put Vers at QB for the rats this year and they’d of won a few games ... i’m Betting he’s a better QB than RT ... but i could be wrong ... HI VERS ... ... OK .. please only reply to my stat questions ... ty ... *LOL* ... ya, like thats gonna work ... And i thought Hue handled Kizer HORRIBLY last year ... in that he benched him during a game or two and then let Hogan start one ... Hue did not handle him well IMO ... problem is .. HE HAD NUTTIN ELSE ... Now i’m Gonna here from some menZa about Kessler beating the colts last week ... ya .. Cody did a hell of a job playing D last week ... *LOL* ... Hue had a better qb room with McCown RGIII and only managed to win 1 game. Sorry the talent excuse is poor. There have been expansion teams with less talent than we had and managed to win more than 1 game in two years.
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Good points.
Water under the bridge at this point though. It's one of the things we're probably never going to agree on here.. at least not anytime soon.
Give it another 10-12 days and we'll do round whatever on Hue before the Browns/Bengals rematch.
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What a joke that is and u know it ... RG3 was healthy for what ... the first game and last two ... and he won 1 .. so if we had him we’d of won 33% of our games if u extrapolate that out ... And how many games was McCown healthy for? ... And how has RG3 done since leaving .. who did this QB ROOM CHANGING QB play for last year ... ... Whats McCowns record in NY ... WITH MUCH MORE TALENT THAN WE HAD 2 YEARS AGO .. ... Keep swinging boys ...
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He didn't have a QB, oh well. That's life for a lot of NFL teams.
None of them had as bad of a 32 or 40 game stretch as he did. Not even the worst expansion team, or completely out-matched teams in the era before free agency.
We've done this many times before though. He's one of the few coaches who has ever had to be stripped of responsibilities on his own side of the ball because he was so clueless. Maybe Baker will be more forthcoming in time, or write a book, or something along those lines. I have a feeling we haven't heard the last of it.
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Keep swinging bro, come on. These are just warmup swings. Wait until I tell you how I really feel.. oh hell.
This guy was the worst professional head coach I have ever seen, in any sport. He could have been fired for fraud, for masquerading as a head coach. Ditto for the geniuses at the search firm that recommended him.
The only problem is the thief, as you call him, doesn't really deserve the money either. I say give it to the truckers. Whatever they got in that settlement, double it.
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j/c:
This is a great thread about the Brown's defense. Hope the board is enjoying all this Pure Football talk.
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Ty sir ... I will let u know when i find good stuff ... I want to prepare and be ready for DFS next season ... STATS will play an integral part of my research week to week ... Can u believe i just said that ... ... What does DFS mean?
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IMHO Ward is clearly our best rookie, and 2nd best in the league behind Saquan.
He is already a top player in the league in his position, Baker and Chubb are still far from being on the top. You realize you opinion on anything is about as solid as a bucket of nickelodeon slime right? Yet I'm seldon wrong about this stuff.... Also you clearly have reading comprehension problems... Ward is clearly better in his position right now than any other rookie in the roster.
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/07/18 07:17 AM.
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Daily Fantasy Sports ....
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Hue had a better qb room with McCown RGIII and only managed to win 1 game. Sorry the talent excuse is poor. There have been expansion teams with less talent than we had and managed to win more than 1 game in two years.
Why not take the "Hue is the worst HC in the history of Sports" discussion elsewhere? It ruins any thread about anything else. My 2 cents - I think you can come down either side easily enough. i think there have been teams with less talent that won more - I also think the first year the FO had no desire to put a winning product on the field. As for QB's - we won 5 games with Thaddeus Lewis - Colt McCoy & Brandon Weeden ... Hard for anyone to say Weeden is a better QB than anyone, ever. Colt had huge limitations - he wasn't as gun shy as Kessler, but he wasn't really better than Kessler either imo. Personally having supported the guy through two awful seasons and seeing the change once he left - I am confident in saying Hue was an awful HC. He also had deep issues with multiple versions of the FO/Staff ... at some point you have to consider the common denominator. That's my 2 cents and I don't care if you love Hue or hate Hue. It's not worth debating or arguing over. He's gone.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Hue had a better qb room with McCown RGIII and only managed to win 1 game. Sorry the talent excuse is poor. There have been expansion teams with less talent than we had and managed to win more than 1 game in two years.
Why not take the "Hue is the worst HC in the history of Sports" discussion elsewhere? It ruins any thread about anything else. My 2 cents - I think you can come down either side easily enough. i think there have been teams with less talent that won more - I also think the first year the FO had no desire to put a winning product on the field. As for QB's - we won 5 games with Thaddeus Lewis - Colt McCoy & Brandon Weeden ... Hard for anyone to say Weeden is a better QB than anyone, ever. Colt had huge limitations - he wasn't as gun shy as Kessler, but he wasn't really better than Kessler either imo. Personally having supported the guy through two awful seasons and seeing the change once he left - I am confident in saying Hue was an awful HC. He also had deep issues with multiple versions of the FO/Staff ... at some point you have to consider the common denominator. That's my 2 cents and I don't care if you love Hue or hate Hue. It's not worth debating or arguing over. He's gone. Yes its worth debating,its worth debating WHY WITH ALL THE EVIDENCE that Hue was a bad coach, we still had people here defending the guy ad nausea... and then pretending it was nothing. Its always like that, in the end by some strange reasons the few guys who get some of the stuff right (Like Coleman, Gilbert being busts, Haden being over rated), that calling 60% pass plays with a bad pass O and a rookie is stupid, etc, etc end up being criticized. Apologies are in order, and some kind of Humility would be appreciated, instead we get the usual arrogance. Now we are entering an era where saying anything that isn't praising Baker Mayfield will get you crucified in this forum...
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What a joke that is and u know it ... RG3 was healthy for what ... the first game and last two ... and he won 1 .. so if we had him we’d of won 33% of our games if u extrapolate that out ... And how many games was McCown healthy for? ... And how has RG3 done since leaving .. who did this QB ROOM CHANGING QB play for last year ... ... Whats McCowns record in NY ... WITH MUCH MORE TALENT THAN WE HAD 2 YEARS AGO .. ... Keep swinging boys ... Jacksonville won a game with Kessler. His first start for them. No excuse.
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IMHO Ward is clearly our best rookie, and 2nd best in the league behind Saquan.
He is already a top player in the league in his position, Baker and Chubb are still far from being on the top. You realize you opinion on anything is about as solid as a bucket of nickelodeon slime right? Yet I'm seldon wrong about this stuff.... Also you clearly have reading comprehension problems... Ward is clearly better in his position right now than any other rookie in the roster. how's bakers arm? Still a noodle? Your always wrong. Even if your right.
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IMHO Ward is clearly our best rookie, and 2nd best in the league behind Saquan.
He is already a top player in the league in his position, Baker and Chubb are still far from being on the top. You realize you opinion on anything is about as solid as a bucket of nickelodeon slime right? Yet I'm seldon wrong about this stuff.... Also you clearly have reading comprehension problems... Ward is clearly better in his position right now than any other rookie in the roster. What Ward has done is great but I'd have to say it's actually Chubb performing the best among the rookies at their respective positions. Chubb is a really good player, and has an unusual combination of speed, power, and elusiveness. Hard guy to bring down. That's not to take anything away from Ward or Mayfield for that matter. It's a good debate for the Browns to have..
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https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/er...-more-stri.htmlGregg Williams wants more strip-sacks from Myles Garrett, Larry Ogunjobi might play and more things we learned Thursday
BEREA, Ohio -- As the Browns prepare to face the 6-6 Panthers at First Energy Stadium, Gregg Williams and offensive coordinator Freddie addressed a number of topics on Thursday, ranging from Myles Garrett's big-play production to whether Kitchens has given any thought to staying on as offensive coordinator if Bruce Arians gets the head coaching job.
Cornerback Denzel Ward sat out for the second straight day with his concussion, and Duke Johnson was absent for the second straight day for a personal reason.
But defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi returned to action and might try to play with what could be a torn biceps.
For the Panthers, Cam Newton was limited for the second straight day with his right shoulder, but has said he intends to play.
Here's what you need to know.
1. Williams wants more strip-sacks from Myles Garrett
Garrett is tied for fourth in the NFL with 11.5 sacks and is on pace to break Bill Glass' club record of 14.5 in 1965, but Williams would like to see the 2017 No. 1 pick wreak more havoc in the final quarter of the season.
"We need to take the next step with that,'' said Williams. "It's not that he's not trying right now. It just it's a little bit different than some of the position areas he is playing in as opposed to some of the other guys."
Williams cited the game-changing ability of Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald, who has a league-high 16.5 sacks, four forced fumbles and two recoveries. Garrett is not far behind, with three forced fumbles.
"Those are the types of things that you want those particular skillset kind of guys to do, and those are point-producing plays,'' said Williams.
Specifically, he wants more strip-sacks.
"I think he's very close,'' he said. "One of the things that we have emphasized all of the time no matter what position player it is, when you're in the pocket, we say a sack is great, but it's not perfect until the ball is out. We want a sack and a caused fumble. Those are the things we're looking at because the quarterback, it's the toughest to secure the ball when you're in pocket and have to block everybody out and go ahead and throw the football.
"We want more production that way, and he is doing a really good job of crushing and getting to the pocket and continuing to get those sack productions things. We just have to get the ball out."
2. Larry Ogunjobi still wants to play
Ogunjobi admitted Thursday that he might try to play with what could be a torn biceps suffered in the Texans game. He's awaiting a second opinion from orthopedist Dr. James Andrews, who's reviewing the MRI results, but Ogunjobi indicated it could be torn.
"If it's torn, it's one of those things where you've just got to kind of play with it,'' said Ogunjobi, who returned to practice on Thursday on a limited basis.
So he can play if it's partially torn?
"Even if it's fully torn,'' he said. "I've done my research. The biggest thing is just finishing the second opinion and making sure everything's straight and just really going from there and it's really just how I feel.''
Ogunjobi said it could come down to a gametime decision.
"Right now, we're just trying to progress and trying to make sure everything is solid before we make any like serious decisions,'' he said. "I was able to go through the practice, felt well, nothing was hurting too bad, so we're just playing it by ear. We'll see how (Friday) goes.''
Williams said "he was clamoring to me to make sure I saw that sack that he got at the end of practice. He's a tough dude now, but he had a pretty good day." There's more in there but those are the bits about the defense. I don't think Ogunjobi playing with a torn biceps is a good idea (if that's what it is).
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I don't think Ogunjobi playing with a torn biceps is a good idea (if that's what it is).
Agreed! The risk isn't worth the reward.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
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I don't think Ogunjobi playing with a torn biceps is a good idea (if that's what it is).
Agreed! The risk isn't worth the reward. I think it depends on the size and location of the tear.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Maybe, but it was injured doing something within the game, which means he risks increasing the tear by repeating the action in future games. It's best to let the tear heal and scar, then work the it back into playing shape.
If we were in the midst of a playoff run, the risk/reward equation changes, but with the team W8ing 4 Nxt Yr Again, the risk is too high.
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
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Did u stay at a holiday inn express last night .... *L* ... J/k bro ...
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Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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This was not something I ever expected to see. It delights me.
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
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Side note:
Larry Ogunjobi is playing with a torn biceps? I know nothing about anatomy or medicine or anything related to those two things. How is this possible? It seems like this would be incredibly painful and/or impossible.
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Side note:
Larry Ogunjobi is playing with a torn biceps? I know nothing about anatomy or medicine or anything related to those two things. How is this possible? It seems like this would be incredibly painful and/or impossible. If the diagnosis starts with “torn”, I’m checking out right there.
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,870 Likes: 305 |
Larry Ogunjobi playing with torn biceps, and through the pain BEREA — Interim coach Gregg Williams wasn’t kidding when he raved last week about defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi’s toughness. Ogunjobi played 51 snaps (69 percent) Sunday in the 26-20 win over the Panthers with a torn left biceps. He said Wednesday it’s fully torn. The painful injury didn’t stop him from making four tackles, and he plans to play the rest of the season. “Some days are better than others, but it’s kinda one of those things,” he said of the pain, adding it was worse after the game. “During the game you’ve got a lot of adrenalin and stuff going, so you don’t really feel it too much. It’s just certain positions that if I’m in I feel like it might be compromising. But now that I know what positions not to be in, I think I can work around it.” He tore the muscle in the second quarter of a loss to the Texans on Dec. 2. He beat the offensive lineman, got into the backfield and dived to tackle running back Lamar Miller but missed. “I just fell on it and it kind of …” said Ogunjobi, who has 42 tackles and 4.5 sacks. He returned to finish the quarter but sat out the second half. He isn’t certain he’ll have surgery after the season, even though that’s the only way the muscle will reattach. “It’s one of the things where sometimes surgery can be more a detriment to it than helpful,” he said. He said the tear is at the top of the biceps near the shoulder and he could play the rest of his career without surgery. “It’s a weird injury,” he said. “It’s one of those things that if you wanted to do something to it, that would be the one you wanted to do.” He said it initially took away strength but he’s been rehabbing and is even able to bench press. “I feel progressively stronger as we go through the week,” he said. “So it’s just one of those things you’ve got to monitor throughout the week and just stay on top of it.” https://www.brownszone.com/2018/12/12/no...rough-the-pain/
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 11,335 Likes: 1837
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 11,335 Likes: 1837 |
This team is embracing a warrior mentality down the stretch... haven't seen that in a few decades.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654 Likes: 510
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,654 Likes: 510 |
I haven't seen that mentality EVER. If we would win this game, we will have some BIG TIME mojo going
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,608 Likes: 89 |
Side note:
Larry Ogunjobi is playing with a torn biceps? I know nothing about anatomy or medicine or anything related to those two things. How is this possible? It seems like this would be incredibly painful and/or impossible. If the diagnosis starts with “torn”, I’m checking out right there. This. I cannot even imagine otherwise.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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