DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Coaching Search Continued

Yup

Honestly though, I will be surprised if the Browns don't screw this up. They should have already hired Greg Williams as the full time head coach all ready and put all the speculation and talk to rest so the team has some stability and the players know whats going on and how to move forward.

uncertainty is NEVER a recipe for success, but those who run the Browns are just twits.

I fully expect Williams to win the next two games, and I fully expect Dorsey and Haslam will hire a new head coach and clean house afterwards, so the merry go round will continue.

to any rational sane person, Williams has to be the guy, he has done nothing but get results...but Haslam and Dorsey are not rational...i fully expect them to try and "outsmart everyone" because thats their way. I think nothing short of a miracle changes it.

I'll keep praying Williams is retained.

No clue where this is gonna land ... all i do know is that were

IN THE CATBIRDS SEAT ....

Things have FLIPPED ....

They have the Browns playing their best football in two decades. What else should be considered?

Please god just dont start over all new and mess this whole team up. Can't we be happy just winning for once and enjoy it.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nick-chubb-guys-buying-173316095.html

Nick Chubb: The guys are all buying in

ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports•Dec 16, 2018, 12:33 PM

The Browns have gone from 2-6-1 when they fired head coach Hue Jackson and offensive coordinator Todd Haley after a loss to the Steelers to 6-7-1 with two games left in a season that marks a major turnaround for the franchise.

They’d won four games in total over the 2015, 2016 and 2017 seasons and running back Nick Chubb pointed to that change as the spark for all that’s gone right in recent weeks.

“I think just our energy has shifted into a better place,” Chubb said on SiriusXM NFL Radio. “The guys are all buying in. We all we all love playing with each other. We love the people coaching us. I think everyone’s just bought into the new system and we’re playing hard for each other.”

The Browns haven’t been eliminated from playoff contention at this point and being alive at this late point in the season is a welcome change in circumstance from past seasons. Chances are they won’t make it to the playoffs, but figuring out a way to keep things rolling will have to be a big factor to consider as they decide what to do with interim head coach Gregg Williams once the season is over.

And what if Williams tells Dorsey I want to fill out my own Offensive Coaching Staff and it ain't Kitchens.

NO-ONE knows what Williams thinks of kitchens.

I'm not entirely opposed to hiring Williams, but I think it's important to resist being a prisoner of the moment and finish the process as intended. The Browns are playing better than they have in a long time - and Williams is part of that improvement - but he's not the sole reason. Other coaches (Kitchens) and players (Baker) have played their part in the turnaround.

Another aspect to consider is the fact that, in an ideal world, the hiring of a head coach is a long-term decision. Williams provided short-term results upon inheriting a toxic, self-serving culture, but sustaining success is different than building the foundation for success. Considering Dorsey's background as an executive in Green Bay and Kansas City and his closest ties to NFL decision-makers, I'm confident he's viewing the next coach of the Browns as a long-term appointment.

How Williams and Dorsey interface with each other is critical to their long-term partnership. Working with someone for two months is a lot easier than tying your future to them. Maybe there's mutual admiration as no-nonsense grinders and NFL lifers. Or maybe there's some respect, but there's enough disconnect that it would be a tenuous fit moving forward. Regardless, if the relationship isn't there, I think it would be unwise to commit to the pairing based on a second-half surge. And, if forced to choose, I'm choosing Dorsey. Williams is a breath of fresh air, but he's not bringing the more irreplaceable skill set to the building.

Fortunately for Williams, his interview is much longer than other candidates. He will be able to show what he has done with the team instead of discussing theoretical plans. That said, assuming a compatible relationship, I think the biggest question in his end-of-season interview will be his vision for his offensive staff.

Retaining Kitchens as coordinator is obvious. But, if the Browns offense performs as well as expected in 2019, Kitchens is a likely departure. The turnover for head coaches is high and offensive minds remain coveted. The man seen as responsible for the development of Baker and the design of the offense is a prime candidate for poaching. How would Williams respond?

Would he promote Zampese from quarterbacks coach given his prior experience as an offensive coordinator in Cincinnati and his relationship with Baker? Does he have a specific coach in mind when the time comes? Or does he have a set of expectations from his offensive coordinator and will, in tandem with Dorsey, turn over every rock to find the coach that best implements those ideas?

In Buffalo, Williams hired two offensive coordinators. His first was Mike Sheppard. Sheppard originates from the LaVell Edwards coaching tree. He served alongside Brian Billick and Norm Chow at BYU (while Andy Reid was an offensive lineman), worked as offensive coordinator under Mike Holmgren in Seattle, etc. He brought Sheppard in to run a West Coast offense, fired him after a poor season, scrapped his offensive philosophy, and changed directions. In 2002, he hired Kevin Gilbride, who he worked with in Houston, to install a run-and-shoot variant. After two more seasons and middling offensive results, Williams was fired.

What has Williams learned about hiring on the offensive side of the ball in the past fifteen years? That, to me, is the biggest question left unanswered and the biggest obstacle facing him as a prospective coach. Defensive coaches are disadvantaged in the modern NFL in terms of creating a seamless program from season-to-season. For example, I think Mike Zimmer is a fantastic coach, but the Vikings just turned to their fourth offensive coordinator in three years. That's tough to endure and persevere.

As far as I'm concerned, the other questions are answered. I'd be shocked if he Williams hired anyone other than his son to be defensive coordinator and, in terms of his system, I think it's impossible to maintain for more than a few years; however, having a premier, cost-controlled pass rusher and press corner helps.

We'll see what happens next.

Interesting tid bits from Jay Glazer on Nfl Trade Rumors.

I can't paste it on phone.

Anyone?

Williams hasn't locked up anything, although if we made playoffs he'd be considered.

Kitchens has LOCKED UP the OC position.

Now THAT I LIKE.

New HC. New 4-3 DC that don't go Blitz Happy. And Kitchens.

Where does Glazer get his stuff from?

Familiar refrain? Ok then, name the last Browns HC that had more wins than losses? When you do he won’t sound all that familiar.

At least wIth Williams he has instilled a sense of urgency and a killer instinct in a team that lost that totally for a decade or so.

So who's the HC then?

Welcome to the board ... Good stuff dawg ...

Enjoy ....

We don’t know.

This is where Williams and Kitchens are really ticking the important box. Player production and winning are fine but good talent can certainly cover for poor coaching. These players going all in on their coaches, however, is going to make it really hard for Haslam to move on from anyone.

Some of the most exciting, valuable players within this organization seem to be all in on their coaches. Haslam would be unwise to rock the boat if that's the case.

And that's good news for Haslam. The team is winning. The players are productive. There is a clear correlation between that winning and production and this coaching staff. The players seem to be strongly embracing their coaches.

At this stage, any change to the coaching staff is just a hope to end up with exactly what we already have.

j/c

I know this won't be a popular post, but that's never stopped me before.



I'm going back to a popular theme for me but it fits pretty nicely here. The NFL is a business. As such it's a product that you sell to your fan base. As much as we consider it a sport and get attached to our players, for owners it's all about filling seats and winning games. As Haslam repeated more than once in his opening presser when he purchased the team, it's a marketing world. He didn't say, "It's a marketing world" three times, but marketing was mentioned three times. He finally has a winning team to market and he won't let that go easily.

Williams and Kitchens has given him something to FINALLY market! WINS! Some actual success! And make no mistake, Haslam signs the checks. Everything goes through Haslam. Do I think he'll get in some kind of dawg fight with Dorsey about it? No I don't. But why would Dorsey put up a fight about it? After all, Dorsey wants coaches that win too.

You can pick from several HC's to hire. But what you can't guarantee is the synergy we're seeing on the field. What you can't guarantee is that a new HC will have enough familiarity with this roster to use them in a way that will be this productive. There is no substitute for success.

We just witnessed something great coaches can do. It's a team win. A team that pulls together when the chips are down. It's far easier to get a win when your QB goes out and performs really well. It feeds the team and inspires their play. Baker is the leader of the team on the field and as Baker goes, so goes the Browns. Or at least we thought. But Saturday night was different. The offensive production went south. Points weren't being put on the board.

Yet with a very young team, the type of team that easily could have folded when their field general was having a bad day, stood up to the challenge. What one poster called "filler players" won this game. They stepped up and held Denver to 16 points. That's simply not something that happens on young teams across the league. That's good coaching. That's keeping your team focused and not allowing negativity and penalties to turn the game into a loss.

I'll admit, to a degree I was holding back on giving the green light to this crew until the end of the season. And sure I would have liked to have beaten the Broncos by 20 points. But what I saw Saturday night changed things. I saw circumstances that cause young team to let down, to get discouraged and lose focus. To fold under pressure. And I watched them step up to the challenge. I saw intestinal fortitude.

You don't throw that away. As much as some talk about "the next big thing", we are witnessing it on the field right now. It's right in front of our very eyes for anyone willing to look at it. And while Baker is a big part of it, he's not all of it. We all saw that Saturday night.

Why would you look for an answer to your questions when you already can see the answer? We have the answer and we don't need more questions. Haslam has wanted a team that can win. Dorsey wants a coach who can win. We have that product in place. Wining cures all. We are cured.

Glazer saying Kitchens has locked up the OC position makes me curious.


This means a couple things I think... Williams is in play, we could be hiring a defensive minded HC (or ST), or we would be considering Arians.

McDaniels, Riley, McCarthy would all be eliminated... but we already knew that anyway.



Also, I don't understand the people who are saying we must keep Williams as not to break up the continuity. Williams has only coached 6 games... plus, we aren't dismantling anything if we don't retain Williams.


A possible scenario would be that Williams becomes the HC somewhere else and takes his son to be DC. I don't know that Williams would stay on as DC here although we may try. He strikes me as the type of guy who would not want to suppress his son from getting a DC job here or somewhere... Unless everyone in the building thinks we have a real shot at winning the Super Bowl next season and stay on if we hire a guy like Toub or Arians as HC.

Jabrill Peppers said after the game that having a QB like Baker makes the defense play harder, faster, and more instinctive knowing if they make a mistake the offense will put up points and bail them out. Hes not the only defensive player to say something to this effect. While "filler" may be a poor descriptor of the rest of the team, the QB makes all units play better.

You just lauded the coaches, and I agree they are doing a great job. But if these same coaches had taken over with Cody Kessler at the helm, Gregg Williams would be 0-6. And that's with Garrett and Jabrill and Larry and Duke, etc. No one would be talking about Freddie Kitchens.

You have to have the QB. Then you have to have the coach. They raise the play of everyone else. This team has had a large number of good players over the years. They just never had a QB.

As to keeping Williams and Co., sign me up. They appear to have great chemistry with Baker and are doing a great job. If that's the direction Dorsey goes, great. I love the way the team is playing right now.

Yet they held the Broncos to 16 points when Baker WASN'T putting up the points to bail them out. That was the entire point.

This could mean either:
1- Williams will be the guy
2- Arians will be the guy

If we bring in an offensive minded HC, which I hope we do, forcing Kitchens on someone may not work for the long-term if there is no previous connection.

Let me ask it this way, then we can move on. Do you think the D would have only given up 16 points if Baker wasn't the QB? If you do, we can agree to disagree and let it go. I'm just trying to highlight the psychological effect the real chance of winning has on players. And the QB has the most impact on wins and losses.

I always said if we were to ever get a QB, we'd all of a sudden have a roster full of good players. All of a sudden we have a bunch of good players.

Taub would also fit that scenario

Why in the world would he want to do that? The two biggest reasons he's a front runner for the job is because Kitchens has turned the Offense into a force, and because he offers the closest thing to continuity that we've had since our return. Why would he want to throw away his two best trump cards?

Sure, but do you see a situation where Gregg Williams is given the Head Coaching Job without keeping Freddie Kitchens around?

I don't. Not at all

No I don't. But we still see this slightly differently. Maybe not as much as it first appeared. Baker has certainly inspired the team. But when you have such a young team, often that team folds when their QB has a tough game. They depend on him to inspire them on the field.

What we saw was a team that stepped up for Baker. That was a different direction and something that I felt we needed to see. So yes, this team plays harder for Baker. But it's nice to see the team win and step up rather than depend on Baker to do it when his performance isn't up to his usual.

It's why I've always said that you can't depend on your QB alone to win. You ned a solid team to win games. Because there will be those games where your QB doesn't light it up. Where your run game and D will have to be depended on to win some games. It will be the difference in your playoff appearances and your seed in the playoffs. It may even be the difference between a SB win and a SB loss. They's not just "filler players" on the roster.



You'll never make it in this league without a good QB. You'll never make it big in this league without a good team.

I agree, even if GW and FC are by far the front runners and most likely he is considering - a great GM (which I believe Dorsey is) will turn over every rock and do his due diligence in this matter. He will interview and bring in others, as well as give consideration equally to all qualified candidates.

Its only right way to do this.

I don't like it either but this will be Dorsey's very first coaching hire. I do not see him standing pat with Williams and company. He will want to hire HIS guy and I don't blame him for that. It sucks that we will have new systems on both sides but I do not see a way around that. The ONLY hope is that Dorsey hires Bruce Arians and he keeps Williams and Kitchens. A long shot at best. We just have to hope whomever Dorsey hires doesn't make too many changes. Like going to a 3-4 heaven forbid!!! Dorsey has done a pretty good job so far, so we just have to hope that continues with his HC hire.

We aren't dismantling anything if Williams leaves? Maybe, maybe not. What happens if the new DC runs a 3-4? That means a complete and total rebuild of the D. Another lame attempt at making a DE a linebacker... A lot of bad things COULD happen if Williams isn't here next year. Or not. That depends on who the HC is and who he hires as his DC and OC.

I've been quiet about the Head Coach situation mostly because I'm not sure what I'd like to see happen... I'm trying to keep an open mind about GW although initially it would be my preference to go in another direction.

I really like the job Freddie has done on the offensive side and would love for him to continue in the OC role but I feel it's imperative to allow the new HC to select his guy...tough situation.

I have watched every Browns game since 2004 and most of them multiple times since I was able to get the Sunday Ticket. To me, Saturday's game against the Broncos was the best Defensive performance I've seen from this team start to finish. I would of bet anything that Lindsay would have shredded us for 170 yds or so. The game plan was absolutely great and executed nearly flawlessly.

What I'm wondering is.... How good is Blake Williams ? Is he an up and comer ? Is he respected by the players and people in the know ? How much responsibility does he have for the game plan ?

I want to see how we handle Lamar Jackson. Mobile qb's have killed us. I will go as far to say that if we put two more defensive games together like Saturday I would absolutely leave things the way they are. I am willing to keep an open mind due to what we are seeing with our Browns. Blake Williams may actually be the key to all of this...

If we keep GW we get to keep Blake and Freddie.

If you replace GW and Kitchens with someone else and it doesn't go well, oh boy.

Bro, do you really think Dorsey who has been signing FA and drafting players for the 4-3 is going to hire a guy that's going to change entire system?

LOL, if you do I have a bridge to sell you. . . . .

IDK why people do no see that Dorsey is going to hire someone that FITS the types of players HE IS DRAFTING AND SIGNING.

..

That was my first and only thought ... King John kept pick #1 under complete lock and key til like 24 hours before the draft ...

Yet now someone is leaking that Kitchens is in somewhere on the perm staff ... ok ... *LOL* ..

Click bait baby ... and appearantly some dawgs did just that ...

Big Williams fan but not taking 3 to put u up by 4 was such a stupid decision, it could cost him the job.

If that costs him the job, then he was never getting the job in the first place.

It was MORONIC but he shouldn’t be anywhere near eliminated for it ... thats way to harsh ..

The guys defending it only wanna talk about the success rate of the 4th down play ... then they stop, thats the entire equation ... its not a COMPLETE EQUATION ... u then have to figure in the odds of an L is u fail .. and in this case ...

That would be the comparative difference between having to go the extra 35 yards to score a TD vs getting to the 35 (very conservative yard line for denver) ti attempt a FG ...

In this one .. FOR ME ... and i dont kinow what the stats say NOR DO I CARE ... i’m Rolling the dice that with NO TIMEOUTS LEFT and a minute 50 seconds left on the clock .... i’m Gonna make them go the extra 35 yards to score the TD especially with there noodle armed QB and ROOKIE RECIEVERS ...

That was just DUMB ...

No way...they won the game.

Exactly how I felt after last weeks game. It just sunk in to me that we have the pieces, the time is now. We always see those teams that seem to turn the corner overnight and become successful. That is where we are! Like I said last week, if we keep GW and FK on, we're going to be 12-4 next year. Mark it down. Anyone that knows me knows that I'm no homer that looks through orange and brown glasses. This is the real deal.