DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Rookie QB's Mid Season Review

Rodgers is certainly more talented than Brady. no question about that.

but ill take the wins, the playoff W-L records, the superbowl wins and appearances, the longevity and lack of a ton of games missed due to injury, and the overall mindset, from leadership and everything else.

lately, rodgers makes losing really beautiful. but ill take a ugly win over a beautiful loss.

Is it not possible to like them both?

I have told that I have problems with WCO QB's,dink donk short passes,high accuracy but that don't take risks .. ala Smith or Cousins. I think Baker is turning out more a JG style, having no problems taking risks, and honestly I like it.

I also like Darnold ability to make plays where there aren't any, so if he can have better ball security, I think he can be good.


I love where we are going, we have a running game now and B, does not have to win games, at least for now. Maybe once we start getting in the playoffs, we will need it, but for now our O is very balanced.

And I will say it again, BM does not have a top 10 QB arm talent. Never stated he has a noodle arm, but his arm wasn't why we drafted him.

And he clearly still struggles with some throws, which is perfectly natural.

Would you care to list the 10 arm talents that are better than his?

To be fair, you went from claiming BM doesn't have the requisite NFL arm to just saying he's outside the top 10.

J/C, but related.

Been gone a while but I've been very, very much looking forward to posting in one of these threads.

Baker, simply, has been phenomenal. If we go back and take a look at some of the rookie quarterbacks throughout the last decade of football, Baker statistically stands out as one of the best. His numbers are right there with the likes of Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, etc.

Perhaps even more intimidating is the swift culture change. Guys have entered far more favourable situations like Wilson (Seahawks were the best team in football) and Prescott (Most loaded surrounding offense) but Baker has promptly changed the culture of this team and created a winner who actually have non-Browns folk disappointed at the closing playoff window because there is a feeling that this team could do something special.

He's swiftly pushing himself into ROTY honours and, frankly, he's sitting just outside a Pro-Bowl worthy season.

I must admit, I was wrong. Had him as the #3 quarterback and didn't think he had the arm to be a top flight player. Top 15 pick, but a guy who would need a very complete team to be a threat. I was wrong. At the moment, we may be heading in to next year with the best quarterback in the AFC North. I don't say that lightly, I just think Baker Mayfield looks realistically poised to overtake Roethlisberger.

The kid is special. We've got a franchise quarterback.

Yup. I'd like to hear this one.

Baker's on the money. And he's certainly made Rasta eat some serious crow.

I still can't believe folks wanted to take Saquon Barkley number 1. Barkley's a good player, but getting the right QB is the most important thing of all. I'll take Baker over that whole field any day of the week.

Yes. Giants fouled up their future with that one... Gettleman won't be there much longer I presume. Thank the heavens we ended up with Dorsey over Gettleman.


Also to note, even if we didn't have the #1 pick, the Giants would most likely would have. Trading up to #1 was in the cards for us with all the assets we had acquired. We were lucky we didn't have to, but it's clear to see we would have sold the farm to trade up for Mayfield.

And we'd have been right to.

Every rookie QB this year is in different situations. Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, and Josh Allen all were in worse situations than Baker in the first place. Darnold and Allen are far less experienced than Baker (who played far more college football and against much better competition than Allen). Being in Jets country, I have to remind Jets fans of that all the time. Darnold should have sat this year. Bridgewater should have been the starting QB along with McCown. There was no reason to send Darnold out there like that. Of all the QBs, he'd have been best to get a red-shirt season. I don't know as much about the Bills, but I can clearly see our weapons are better than theirs, so that's all I can say about Allen.

Rosen has very little help. His receivers aren't very good, and his offensive line is awful. He's taking the same beating he was taking at UCLA.


But still, Baker certainly looks like the best of the bunch. He's naturally accurate. He's a playmaker with a gunslinger mentality. He plays smart and makes good decisions. And he doesn't accept failure. Losing pisses him off. It bothers him. Every week and every game is important, and he goes about it that way. The game is personal to him.


It's like we drafted a Veteran QB. I can't wait to see what he brings next season. Every week I'm confident we're going to win because we have Baker. I don't think I've ever been in that position rooting for this team. I always expected DA to fail. Same with Brian Hoyer. But Baker, i'm confident going into every game. Even a little too confident, like i was when we played the Texans. The dude kicks major butt

Yes. Very nice. Not much I disagree with here... it was always interesting to me how many people said we needed to sit Baker, some even said he needed to sit 2-3 years!

Heck, even Hue was adamant about sitting Baker. He didn't get any work with the ones like the other 4 1st round rookies. Hue may be a good coach, but he is horrible with managing and developing players. Stick to the Xs and Os.

At the start of the season, I think somewhere in the world someone said we had the best WR corp in the NFL. But now look. Coleman has been with 4 teams this year. Gordon was traded. And Jarvis has not turned out to be as good as we hoped. The Bills have also cut their starting WRs.

I also felt Darnold should have sat, but he's actually played well at times considering. He seems to be the second best of the lot. I'm up in the air on Rosen. But Allen and Jackson just seem to run too much. Maybe that will work out for them, but I think you want your quarterback throwing more than they do... Allen seems to be the one that worries me the most, but we'll see what happens.

I think you brought up some very good points. One thing that most people don't factor in when evaluating these qbs are the OL's they play with.

I don't have the latest rankings, but after Week 12 PFF had it this way.

Browns 3rd in NFL
Ravens 14th
Bills 23rd
Jets 26th
Cardinals dead last.

An offensive line is always going to have a big influence on how a qb plays, but it's especially important to young qbs.

I think it's too early to define any of these guys. People always say you need three years to properly evaluate the qbs [well, at least when they are being criticized..LOL] but my early eye-ball test says that Baker is playing better than any of them.

I agree that Baker is playing better than any of them, and I don't think it's even close.

However, I think picking from week 12 is probably cherry picking. Baker was playing lights out and had the ball out of his hands significantly faster than he was earlier this year.

Not necessarily arguing with you, as I think we definitely have the bet o-line of those five teams. But I think it lays credence to the mantra that a great QB makes his entire team look better, including the o-line.

Most definitely, but as was said later, a QBs play also impacts the O-Line. I mean, Arizona's O-Line is terrible. We know that. No starter for them right now was a starter in training camp. I think i just read that. That's awful.

But it helps when you have a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly. Baker seems to have that skill when he needs to. He has a real good feel for the rush, and he's a shifty bugger. His feet always seem to be moving, but that's a good thing. It's similar to what Peyton Manning does. Always on his toes, ready to make a play. Standing high and light on his feet.

You take someone like Tyrod. He didn't seem to have as good of a feel at this. Or Josh McCown who always seems to take a beating out there. You can have a great O-Line but if you hold the ball too long, you're going to get creamed. Same with Deshone Kizer. We've seen that plenty here

Baker is definitely making his line look better by getting rid of the ball quickly. The coaches are making Baker look better by simplifying his reads.

I am one of the guys that was saying Baker should have sat. He still has a lot of flaws to his game, but those flaws aren't getting exploited because of how quickly he is getting rid of the ball.

Eventually teams will exploit the simplified system we are using, but Kitchens is doing a good job of mixing things up and there are only two games left.

Once Baker makes it to the offseason we should be able to work on those flaws a little more and expand the system.

What are his biggest flaws that you see?

Biggest one off the top of my head is him pushing a little too much, going for the bigger, lower percentage throw than the wide open underneath.

j/c

In very short order, Mayfield has dispelled any incorrect doubts about his leadership, personality, arm strength, accuracy and ability to throw into tight windows. Now we have THIS about pre-snap ability:

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/baker-mayfield-wows-browns-teammates-with-pre-snap-acumen

I don't really have a link about his post-snap read ability...but there is no doubt that others have commented on his ability to "throw receivers open" and "throw with anticipation". I'd say that indicates that he's got some decent post-snap ability along with the arm talent to suggest that he's getting down the post-snap thing as well.

I'm becoming less and less worried about teams "figuring him out". The Texans certainly did...for a half. Then he light them up. This guy is the real deal and he's ours.

somebody is beyond salty.

and i never said a word about lamar being better than wilson. that wasn't even an argument, yet here you go once again making up false narratives.

kick rocks.

His read progressions are the biggest. We have currently cut his reads in half, but we'll only get away with that for so long. Also, although his footwork has improved quite a bit, he still struggles particularly with shuffling into throwing lanes, which is important because of his short stature. He is getting a lot of batted passes at the line.

I'm not upset about the gunslinger mentality. I view that as a plus for a QB that can thread the needle. Some people will go ballistic over this in the future though. He will lose us a few games because of it. When a QB with that mentality has an off day, you are most likely losing that week. I mentioned early in the season he that he reminds me of Brett Favre, and this is what I was thinking off in particular. I think that he'll win us more games with that mentality than he'll lose on those off days.

While I can't really disagree that he makes some risky throws, I think we need to look at the Denver game and take something away from that.

Mayfield wasn't his normal, accurate self for some of that game. Our TOP was atrocious in the first half. But what we saw was a D that rallied and stepped up. They picked up the slack.

See, while I agree with your point there's another element that your post didn't address. And that's that this team believes in Mayfield. That they will run through fire for him. That they will deliver for him when he needs them.

So while there may be times where almost any QB, even the greats, can have an off day, if their team has faith in that QB, they will deliver the W for him. I believe that factor alone will help neutralize his off days.

I saw evidence of that just last week.

I agree.... And I think for a rookie Mayfield is light years ahead of most other rookie qbs.... Of this class and of the last decade.

He's no where near perfect and no where near the finished product. But he's not expected to be. He's a rookie who didn't get any first team reps in training camp.

Let's wait for the end of the season and then review him in detail..... Right now I'd love to know his average release time and where he ranks in the NFL over the last 6 games. He really send to get the ball out quick on most of his throws.

In my years of watching Football, I have never seen a better Rookie QB.

Matter of fact, is there any QB in the Pro's you would trade Baker for? Maybe Mahomes butBrady ,Rodgers,Brees,Rivers are all too old. Can anybody name a QB they would trade Mayfield for? I can't.

I love Baker, but I'd trade him for Mahomes in a heartbeat. Other than that, with the way our team is set up for the next few years I'd have to think long and hard. Rodgers has another 3-4 years of elite play... And he's Dang near as good as it gets, so any team needing to win "now" would take Rodgers.

But it feels good right now. Both with the success the draft, the play on the field, coaching and future.

No doubt some haters might still prefer the calmness of Rosen or the measurable of Allen ? But they are simply in denial.

To be fair I claimed that Baker didn't have arm talent to be the number one pick.

Now QB's that IMHO are clearly better than Baker.

Aaron
Brady
Brees
Mahomes
Big Ben
Goff
Statford
Luck
Ryan
Deshaun
Wilson
Wentz
Foles
Carr
Rivers
Cam
Garappolo

If we are stricktly speaking about arm talent, we must add a few more. Flacco, Allen, Bradford, Eli, Bortles, Keenun at least have better arm

From all our wins, IMHO, only the Jets can be credited to BM, and more because the Jets were not prepared and thought they had the game won, than due to BM play.

The big difference this year is that we have a running game, which we had prior to Baker playing.

The kid is growing on me, and I like him, but don't make him what he is not.

Um...


I.... uh.... I'll let someone else take this one.

I vote for ...

NO ONE TAKES IT ...

LET IT DIE like almost all his posts should be left to do ...

I’m with U .... with a qualifier .... ....

I LOVE bake but would trade him straight up for Mahommes every day of the week and twice on sunday ....

BUT ... i would take our team and overall situation in a HERTBEAT .... and yes i know .. there prolly SB favorites at this point ...

I might be crazy on this one ... but I LOVE ALL OUR YOUNG TALENT .... were set up for LONG TERM SUCCESS if we do this right ....

Sheesh .. now that i typed it maybe i would take the team with a decent shot at the SB now ... that felt dumb typing ... *L* ...

Mahomes came into a situation much different than what Mayfield has dealt with. I love watching Mahommes and thought he was the best QB in his class but I don't believe he would have done what baker has done.

He was perfect to take over for Smith. Baker was the perfect guy for the Browns it seems.

We are talking about Baker and Mahommes as the 2 best QB's going forward and the guy that drafted them both is sitting in our GM's chair. I feel pretty good about that for our future!!!

I often read posts without noticing first who posted. I can't count the number of times I've started to respond, then realized who it is, and just let it go.

My favorite part is when they say how STUPID his post is in the middle of replying to it rationally .... well ... DUH ... if its so stupid, shouldn’t that be the first sign u should stop typing and move on ... *LOL* ...

I posted before, I get the feeling that a Mahomes/Mayfield rivalry will be going on for their entire careers. Ten years from now they will be compared to each other much like Peyton and TB were compared before Manning retired.

If all pans out as you describe, it will be a fun 10 years of comparisons, stats, and highlight reels...

You might be able to put Sam Darnold in that scenario too. If the Jets can get some players for him he could become a very good QB also. The Pats are on the way down so some team in the AFC east has to step up and fill the void. SD is the best young QB in that division.

I ain't afraid of no 3-way....


You could be right. Last year's QB class was as loaded as I've seen in years. Could be setting the stage for some fun competitions for years-

Clem, It'll be nice to see some different teams compete for the AFC title instead of the usual Pats, Steelers, Broncos, etc. The Pats have been in the AFC championship game 7 years in a row. Where's the competition? I hope in the immediate Future it's teams like KC, Houston, NY, Indy and especially our Browns.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pr...db56e-191351853

Shame he doesn't have more arm talent. Not sure how he does what he does without arm talent... But i just wish he had more.

maybe i was one of the few who never got this lack of arm talent or strength thing from the baker critics.

dude made a lot of nfl throws in oklahoma. i got the part where people was saying that he was throwing to a lot of wide open WR's, but that doesn't have much to do with arm talent, or lack thereof.

and that certainly isn't the case in the nfl. dude is absolutely balling. he isn't just the best rookie QB this year, he's the best rookie player this year.

J/C - I agree (partially) with a previous comment. Mahomes is the only other guy I’d want as of now. However, Baker has improved and shown pocket awareness, accuracy, improv skills, red zone brilliance and arm enough for me to be hooked. The guy is doing things, for a rookie, that are sublime. He’s also a winner, a leader and walks his talk. My likey. A lot.

Such a hater.

Let me correct your list.

Better arms than Baker:
Rogers
Brady
Mahomes
Big Ben
Stafford
Wilson
Wentz
Rivers
Cam
Flacco
Allen



About the same arm strength:
Ryan
Watson
Carr
Garappolo


Absolutely not better arm strength:
Brees - are you kidding? Have you seen him throw the ball at all this season?
Luck
Foles
Keenum
Bortles
Eli - Same comment as Brees