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Before the season started I said the only quarterbacks I'd take over Mayfield was Mahomes or Wentz and was laughed at... Now, I wouldn't take any QB over Mayfield, not even Mahomes.
I'm sure Mahomes was on our list for pick 12 before Dorsey screwed us... but I love how it worked out!
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The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Interesting comments... what Mahomes is doing in KC is incredible. I'm not as down about Wentz as some are, though I'll admit, not as high as I was before his injury last season.
Time often gives us more clarity on things.
If you wanted to build a football team right now and you had to pick one QB (and this includes age and contractual status), Mayfield is definitely up there. Not sure I'd put him at the top but he'd be darn close to it.
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You can probably drop Wentz & Cam down with their injuries, and didn't Baker have the same velocity on his throws as Flacco at the combine?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Mahomes and Mayfield will be "rivals" for years to come. Hell they have been for the previous years.
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Interesting article.
Certainly thought provoking.
Wentz, Goff, Dak, Trubisky, Luck, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Rosen, Darnold.
All have tools.
But the one thing that we are finding out in Cleveland is this.
Before the draft there was all this talk about Mayfield as the pied piper. All the brashness, personality stuff as well. However, everybody said Baker was incredible as a leader. That always came out in the discussion.
Now we are finding out first hand how true all that was.
You can not undersell the importance of Baker as a leader.
It has become very obvious. You hear it from all the players and coaches. Baker Mayfield is the unquestioned leader. That is not an easy thing to do as a rookie.
Come into camp as the designated back up. And then lead the team to victories.
So there is no way you can not take that into consideration in this discussion.
What Mahomes is doing is incredible. I was very high on him in the draft. He is super fun to watch.
Still very high on Wentz. His injuries are unfortunate.
Luck. The best college quarterback I have ever seen. Still love the guy. Injuries again really unfortunate.
Obviously there is more or less tape on each guy.
But there is no doubt that Baker has go to be in the discussion.
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I think all Browns fans will pleasantly surprised next season. Baker will put in the work to improve and the offense will have the us against the world mentality.
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And I will say it again, BM does not have a top 10 QB arm talent. Never stated he has a noodle arm, but his arm wasn't why we drafted him.
And he clearly still struggles with some throws, which is perfectly natural. Would you care to list the 10 arm talents that are better than his? To be fair, you went from claiming BM doesn't have the requisite NFL arm to just saying he's outside the top 10. To be fair I claimed that Baker didn't have arm talent to be the number one pick. Now QB's that IMHO are clearly better than Baker. Aaron Brady Brees Mahomes Big Ben Goff Statford Luck Ryan Deshaun Wilson Wentz Foles Carr Rivers Cam Garappolo If we are stricktly speaking about arm talent, we must add a few more. Flacco, Allen, Bradford, Eli, Bortles, Keenun at least have better arm From all our wins, IMHO, only the Jets can be credited to BM, and more because the Jets were not prepared and thought they had the game won, than due to BM play. The big difference this year is that we have a running game, which we had prior to Baker playing. The kid is growing on me, and I like him, but don't make him what he is not. 
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A thing of beauty.
Great throw by Mayfield putting it where only our guy could realistically make a play on it, nice catch by Perriman too.
Last edited by Haus; 12/20/18 08:04 PM.
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 Josh Allen + 506 rush 6 TDs Lamar Jackson + 566 rush 3 TDs
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Josh Allen + 506 rush 6 TDs Lamar Jackson + 566 rush 3 TDs Who cares about Jackson's Rushing yards. He's gonna get KILLED in the NFL. BANK IT. Hopefully we knock them out of the playoffs, they fire Harbaugh and the entire staff. Ozzies done. And thus they will be fighting for the basement of the division here on out. ADVANTAGE US. Look at the CORRECT numbers of those QBs. Comp %, TD/Int Ratio and YPA. Those are average run of the mill numbers for a Rook. Mayfield has numbers that BLOW AWAY EVEN THE BEST EVER QBs of the past. All of them, and it ain't debatable. This Kat has adjusted to the speed of the NFL like noone before him.
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J/c
Baker has been phenomenal so far - for a rookie. He's been very good compared to your average NFL QB. He needs to do it consistently and over multiple years to be given the title of"great" or whatever title you want to give elite QBs.... I'm firmly of the believe he will do that (its why I wanted to pick him at #1)...
I'd be super interested to see a comparison between wentz, Watson and Mayfield.. 1set year stats including average air yards per competition, time to throw, throws under pressure.... I'm not smart enough to do it myself!!!
Last edited by mgh888; 12/21/18 06:25 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Josh Allen + 506 rush 6 TDs Lamar Jackson + 566 rush 3 TDs Who cares about Jackson's Rushing yards. He's gonna get KILLED in the NFL. BANK IT. Hopefully we knock them out of the playoffs, they fire Harbaugh and the entire staff. Ozzies done. And thus they will be fighting for the basement of the division here on out. ADVANTAGE US. Look at the CORRECT numbers of those QBs. Comp %, TD/Int Ratio and YPA. Those are average run of the mill numbers for a Rook. Mayfield has numbers that BLOW AWAY EVEN THE BEST EVER QBs of the past. All of them, and it ain't debatable. This Kat has adjusted to the speed of the NFL like noone before him. Russell Wilson Big Ben RG III Dak Prescott Deshaun Watson To name a few with better rookie seasons
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GC. I think Baker had a shift in his gameplay noticeable by which way he chose to go with the ball.
Before the shift he appeared, (to me anyway) to utilize a 3rd option regularly, more primarily, almost exclusively at times,
(based on the name of the ballcatcher, ((oh he's not our number 1 guy")) seemed clear to me,)
And also it looked like he was sometimes looking one, maybe two options;
I personaly think he may have been avoiding defenses' number one options at db.
However after what I feel I witnessed as a shift in his gameplay, his decisions have seemed to be to throw right into the thick of the defense, almost primarily, and to include more reads, 3+ looks, and though he always hit any eligible receiver on the field
it may not have been that all the options were available on any "given" play,
but they are now.
I think this shift in his gameplay occurred sometime during the Steeler loss (game 2), maybe right as they came back from halftime.
Everyone can see what they want to see, and tend to believe what they want to believe.
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Josh Allen + 506 rush 6 TDs Lamar Jackson + 566 rush 3 TDs Who cares about Jackson's Rushing yards. He's gonna get KILLED in the NFL. BANK IT. Hopefully we knock them out of the playoffs, they fire Harbaugh and the entire staff. Ozzies done. And thus they will be fighting for the basement of the division here on out. ADVANTAGE US. Look at the CORRECT numbers of those QBs. Comp %, TD/Int Ratio and YPA. Those are average run of the mill numbers for a Rook. Mayfield has numbers that BLOW AWAY EVEN THE BEST EVER QBs of the past. All of them, and it ain't debatable. This Kat has adjusted to the speed of the NFL like noone before him. If a team is going to use Lamar Jackson like the Ravens are-- with many designed runs for the QB every game, in addition to the hits the QB takes naturally as a passer-- then they should build the team around that. Have 3 guys that can run that same style of offense. They already have RG3... it'll be interesting to see what they do with Flacco. Do they move on from him and his contract and then build the team with that in mind? It might actually be a reasonable strategy-- teams obviously value the tall, strong-armed, downfield passing types. Somebody could probably keep their roster stocked with dual-threat guys on rookie deals and then use the money saved to load up on the rest of the team. That's not my preferred approach, by the way. It's more brainstorming about what to do when you're in that position.. obviously the Browns QB situation is different than that of the Ravens. I much prefer having Mayfield.
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Josh Allen + 506 rush 6 TDs Lamar Jackson + 566 rush 3 TDs Who cares about Jackson's Rushing yards. He's gonna get KILLED in the NFL. BANK IT. Hopefully we knock them out of the playoffs, they fire Harbaugh and the entire staff. Ozzies done. And thus they will be fighting for the basement of the division here on out. ADVANTAGE US. Look at the CORRECT numbers of those QBs. Comp %, TD/Int Ratio and YPA. Those are average run of the mill numbers for a Rook. Mayfield has numbers that BLOW AWAY EVEN THE BEST EVER QBs of the past. All of them, and it ain't debatable. This Kat has adjusted to the speed of the NFL like noone before him. If a team is going to use Lamar Jackson like the Ravens are-- with many designed runs for the QB every game, in addition to the hits the QB takes naturally as a passer-- then they should build the team around that. Have 3 guys that can run that same style of offense. They already have RG3... it'll be interesting to see what they do with Flacco. Do they move on from him and his contract and then build the team with that in mind? It might actually be a reasonable strategy-- teams obviously value the tall, strong-armed, downfield passing types. Somebody could probably keep their roster stocked with dual-threat guys on rookie deals and then use the money saved to load up on the rest of the team. That's not my preferred approach, by the way. It's more brainstorming about what to do when you're in that position.. obviously the Browns QB situation is different than that of the Ravens. I much prefer having Mayfield. Interesting point about the Ravens and 3 of those types of QBs. It might be an attracting situation for an up and coming college coach (Lincoln Riley?) who can run that type of system.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Sorry rasta, but that's total and utter nonsense. I'm not wanting to be mean, but saying Dak had a better rookie season than baker is mind numbingly not true. Not on this planet or any other planet in the Universe. I don't know if Dak has ever had a game on or near the same level as Baker had when we beat Atlanta.... He's never thrown for 4 Tds, he's never had a 151 passed rating, in each of his first two full seasons he threw one more touchdown than baker has in 11 stats. Do you ever, you know, watch the games. Baker is already a better QB than Dam could ever hope to be.
Obviously you're much smarter than your posts about baker suggest. Why not stop the trolling and move on. Don't make me forever quote you as trying to claim Rosen was more impressive than baker because he was "calm" and "not a distraction I the locker room" .....
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Mahomes and Mayfield will be "rivals" for years to come. Hell they have been for the previous years. Neat thought.. the new version of Brady vs Manning? Hopefully Mayfield is Brady in this example. I'd rather have rings than stats. 
yebat' Putin
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man your negativity is just very unusual for a Brown's fan.
Btw did you consider our Schedule? And defenses that we played.???
For the Record, Swish and other. I know I rag on Lamar but I would take him over Josh Allen in a heart beat.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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For the Record, Swish and other. I know I rag on Lamar but I would take him over Josh Allen in a heart beat.
jmho[/color] Who would u take for toughest smurf .. I think its between Elmo and big bird ... big bird has the reach but Elmo appears to have quite the jaw ... *LOL* ...
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For the record I'm talking about taking them in the future for our Backup QB  lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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For the first time, since probably Bernie, the fanbase is squarely behind the QB and there isn't a faction thinking the backup is the better qb.
#GMSTRONG
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This is such an odd post that I felt compelled to respond. Josh Allen + 506 rush 6 TDs Lamar Jackson + 566 rush 3 TDs Who cares about Jackson's Rushing yards. To answer your rhetorical question: Apparently YOU,kwhip, care about Jackson's rushing yards. YOU are the only person that responded singling out Jackson's rushing yards. No one else. Just YOU. Everyone that didn't see the need to start crying about the posting of Jackson's rushing stats likely realizes the following: 1) This thread is called Rookie QB's Mid Season Review 2) A QBs rushing yards are part of that QBs production 3) Stats are information not a value judgement Also, notice I posted BOTH Jackson and Allen's rushing yards. But YOUR post focuses ONLY on Jackson's rushing yards......odd He's gonna get KILLED in the NFL. Probably. But you know who's already been injured? Allen and Darnold both missed time due to injury. Rosen was injured but didn't miss time.
Last edited by edromeo; 12/22/18 10:51 AM.
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He hasn’t forgetton your poster child ... ....
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He hasn’t forgetton your poster child ... .... ?
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He hasn’t forgetton your poster child ... .... Bingo is it's name-oh. Lol Good catch.
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Oh, so its the usual trolling? Cool.
Great post!
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U asked ... i answered with what i knew to be the correct answer ... witch whip has confirmed ... Not sure why me answering your question honestly = trolling ... to each there own i guess ... It was a sincere answer ... just cause u dont like it dont make it trolling ...
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Was talking about Kwhip trolling….but I still don't understand your explanation. Whatevs, I like to talk football and posted the stats. You guys are welcome.
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They are interesting stats.
It's hard to evaluate the effect of a QB's rushing on the offense as a whole because there are so many moving parts. This is especially true of Lamar Jackson, whose runs are mainly designed runs, which affects how the defense can scheme and often opening lanes for the running back.
At the end of the day, I'm just glad we got Baker. If many of us had gotten our wish (self included), we'd have Darnold and Baker would probably be lighting it up for the NYJ.
Of course, it's still their rookie years so a lot can still change, but we have to be thrilled with how things turned out.
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Ooooops .... let me get my foot out of my mouth as usual ... ... Thanks for the stats ed ... enjoy your day .... hmmmm ... not sure if your a dawg or not ... so have a good day sir ...
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Just remember Lamar has only been utilized for 5 games regarding his possibility of injury due to his Running First assets.
How much will he Progress will be the key question. Will his passing game get better? Specifically his Accuracy, Will his body get built up to take on hits? A good offseason program.
Will he learn how to slide and avoid contact - that growth and progress will be key.
Of course since he is on the Ravens I hope he fails big time
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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They are interesting stats.
It's hard to evaluate the effect of a QB's rushing on the offense as a whole because there are so many moving parts. This is especially true of Lamar Jackson, whose runs are mainly designed runs, which affects how the defense can scheme and often opening lanes for the running back. I'm not a fan of Marty Morninwhig/Harbs plan w/ Lamar. In the world of spread concepts and run-pass option football they're basically turned to the Wing-T/Veer football. An even less creative version of read-option then Lamar ran at Louisville. But Harbs just wants to win and save his job so the antiquated offense they're running isn't developing Lamar but its winning football because Lamar's run threat constrains how a defense can play and produces an ground game that dominates time of possession that it puts pressure on the opposing offense and punished them for inefficiency. I think if you plugged Lamar in the Cardinal and used the same gameplan I bet the Cards would have more wins. But I digress. At the end of the day, I'm just glad we got Baker. If many of us had gotten our wish (self included), we'd have Darnold and Baker would probably be lighting it up for the NYJ.
Of course, it's still their rookie years so a lot can still change, but we have to be thrilled with how things turned out. I had Bake as my #2 QB, behind Lamar. I didn't think Baker would be this good this fast...partly because I wondered about how much the coaching staff would carry-over the college spread RPO concepts that Bake mastered at OU. But, Dorsey showed bigtime sack in showing H & H the door and Baker really took off with Freddy. The hallmark accuracy he showed in college carried over. The stats below are from PFF adjusted completion % Baker 75.1 Darnold 69.3 Rosen 69.0 Lamar 68.1 Allen 64.3 75% adjusted completion is good for a single game but that's Bake's season average.
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Rookie of the year I believe this to be true he deserves it.
Joe Thomas #73
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Thread is gonna get locked so I’ll put out the final numbers for the rookies together.
Last edited by Swish; 01/01/19 11:30 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Thread is gonna get locked so I’ll out the final numbers for the rookies together. ? I don't get it...
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Spelling disaster.
I’m going to make a thread showing the final numbers for the rookie QBs.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Spelling disaster.
I’m going to make a thread showing the final numbers for the rookie QBs. Hmmmm ... interesting ... Maybe weed doesn’t negatively affect the brain as much as i thought ... u clearly spell better than i do ... *LOL* ...
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Rookie QB's Mid Season Review
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