DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons

We'll see. I think he's a career backup. or, like Colt McCoy, a guy who gets a year as a starter, then back to backup when it's obvious he's not a starter.

It will be interesting to watch.

obviously i watched the browns more than the ravens.

but ive watched 4 out of 7 of lamar's starts. our game of course, the chargers, raiders, and falcons game.

j/c:

I think it's a bit concerning that Rudolph could not beat-out Joshua Dobbs for the back-up QB position in Pittsburgh.

its concerning, but dobbs also had atleast a season more in the system than Rudolph.

You know .... watching Baker's highlights, one thing really, really jumps out at me.

For years now, we would get in 3rd and long, or 3rd and almost impossible, and we'd throw a screen, or to a receiver 5 yards short of the line to make. It's been a chronic problem ..... until this year. If we need 13 yards, baker is looking for 15. The plays are designed to convert 3rd and longs, and Baker makes the throws.

yea, watching baker this season...i mean for the first time in a long time, i actually had confidence that a browns QB could convert it.

and then he was houdini in the pocket. some of those moves, the escapability he showed, rolling out looking down field, dodging sacks.

i thought rosen had the best pocket presence coming out. but this season, baker showed such fluidity in the pocket.

Baker really is good at eluding defenders in the pocket. It's one of his strengths.

Just eye test wise, Baker made a ton, and I mean a ton, of what I call "plus level" professional football throws. Difficult throws that require timing, accuracy, and an advanced level of understanding on what's going on. His number of plus level throws far exceeded that of any other rookie QB and my guess is far exceeded that of many veteran starters. Even his worst starts had 3-5 plus level throws.

His key now is keep learning, keep progressing.

Lost in all the post game thoughts was that throw to Higgins where he scrambled, pumped, scrambled, pumped, launched and surprisingly connected. That was an impressive play.

That was beyond impressive actually.

Yeah, he made quite a few plays like that all year. What I like is that he can not only get-away from defenders, but he has the arm strength to make a tight window throw while on the move. That's pretty impressive.

There are a couple of things I would like to see him work on, but certain folks will get all offended and start w/the tired, personal attacks and it's just not worth it right now.

It's mind-boggling how many 3rd and longs became 1st downs thirty or forty yards downfield... or beter yet - touchdowns.

Would love to see some advanced stats for how Bake stacked up against the rest of the league on 3rd down.

Screw certain folks!

I would love to see him become more surgical in the short to intermediate passing game. There are many plays where he scoffed at an easy short range completion and went further down field. Hard to complain when he completes so many of them, but I would love to see more long, sustaining, back-breaking drives next year... the kind that keeps a defense fresh while they're champing at the bit for their next opportunity.

Great thing about Baker is how he slides around in the pocket, you can't really teach that. You just have to have a feel. Plus when he is moving the pocket he 's always got the ball ready to come out from a throwing position. He's ahead of his years

We did a great job in the red zone this year, but didn't get there often enough. Like you said, more sustained drive, and more red zone opportunities. (because I doubt we convert them next year at the rate we did from week 8 onward)

Has nothing to do with fit, has to do with being in the right place at the right time.... you put Dan Marino on that Ravens team back around 2000/2001? Good Lord.. they would have been the odds on favorite to be the first team in history to go 38-0.

Even when nailed dead to rights this guy and his mental gymnastics. Freaking Simone Biles of Dawgtalkers.

why do you keep posting in my threads and mentioning me if you have me on ignore?

makes no sense.

or maybe they dont, because marino doesn't fit the mold of the team.

you know whats funny? the vikings did the same exact thing you did. man, what if we got kirk cousins instead of keenum!!

aaaaaaaand.....

I can see your terrible commentary in the quoted posts regardless of being on ignore. Can't be helped.

an easy way to avoid that is to not read the thread i created, at the very least. but since you wont do that, stop whining.

You're thinking is flawed in terms of Marino and it ain't even close!

All Dilfer did was avoid mistakes and protect the ball. That's it.
He played in 11 games and started in 8 games. He threw for 12 tds. and 11 ints. for 1502 yards. Even if you only count his starts that was less than 200 yards per game. They won the SB in spite of Dilfer, not because of Dilfer.

according to who? you?

ray lewis, the guy who actually played on the team, differs. dilfer was a big part of that team.

again, individually? marino is far and away better.

but individually? rodgers is better than brady.

but guess who i rather have at QB based on how the team is molded? Brady, all day everyday. and based on how the ravens team was made, dilfer was the guy.

Yeah, well we're not talking Brady or Rogers here. We're talking about a QB who couldn't even throw for 200 yards a game and only threw for 12 td's and 11 int's in 8 starts and played in 11 games. I was watching that entire season.

You've just made up your mind made and refuse to listen to any logic on the subject.

no, we're talking about overall comparisons.

i've listened to your logic. that doesn't mean i agree, or have to for that matter.

i like QB's with rings on their hands. im sorry for liking winners, Pit. maybe you and Diam can hand out participation trophies for all the QB's who were good, but not quite good enough.

Marino threw for all those yards...no rings.

like beyonce said, if you like it then you shouldve put a ring on it!

I have to laugh that this conversation is going on forever.

I am happy with the Mayfield pick. Whether or not it was the best pick, only time will tell.

I will state that I would have preferred Darnold, but I understand the Mayfield selection.

The bottom line, is that we are not stuck with a Weeden, Manziel, or Quinn... or lamenting passing on a Carr or Wilson.

It it time to be happy and to look forward, rather than to see what you may have missed, or do not have.

Yeah, Dilfer was such a good QB he needed the #1 defense to carry his sorry azz. Whatever....

Brady would rather have Rodgers.

That's the greatest thing about Baker. He wasn't perfect and has a lot of things to work on... But he's only a rookie and he was still better than most the quarterbacks in the league.

and marino couldn't finish. whatever....

and i rather have Baker over rodgers.

manziel could've been something if he wasnt such an airhead.

The draft last year was funny. After I saw Darnold play Ohio State last year, I really had major questions about him. He didn't "look" right. Everything I read about him looked great. All the experts kept saying that he was probably the best pick in the draft. Everyone kept talking him up on paper, but whenever I pulled up a video of him on Youtube, I just didn't like what I was seeing. Rosen and Mayfield were at least "throwing" like NFL QBs when you watched them. Then the stuff came out about Rosen's attitude and concussion history, and I wasn't exactly thrilled about him either. Mayfield was checking all the boxes for me in the back of my mind, but everyone kept saying he was a mid-first rounder, so by draft day I was sort of sold on Darnold being the pick. It wasn't until after the pick came in that I was thinking, "Now wait, Mayfield isn't that bad of a pick".

He sure could have been better than Dilfer.

j/c

I'll be rooting for Lamar in the playoffs, but I absolutely despise how the Ravens are using him. The guy is a quarterback, not a RB. Let him throw the ball. They are going to get him killed. They give no damns about him. IF they did, they would be trying to preserve his body as best as possible.

if he had the ring of course

The Ravens playoff opponents scored 5.5 points per game, Daffy Duck could have beat them.

but daffy duck didnt, dilfer did.

Only because they drew it that way.

PFF adjusted comp%: (filters out drops, throw-aways, spikes and batted balls)

Mayfield - 74.0
Darnold - 69.7
Rosen - 67.9
Jackson - 66.7
Allen - 64.7



To be clear, Baker killed it this year.
He came out spitting fire.

I didn't expect Baker would be this good right away.

My main concern was his transition to the NFL passing game coming from OU's spread-RPO heavy offense that created a lot of wide open looks. I thought he might have a Jared Goff like progression from college spread to NFL passing game.

But, Baker picked it up right away and his plus level accuracy definitely carried over.
The main reason I don't have him at #1 is because I think he's in the best situation.
Great OL, good receiving corps and good offensive scheme. Kudos to Dorsey. It took brass balls to get rid of both Hue and Haley. But he was absolutely right and the proof is in Baker's production.


Lamar's sample size is smaller then the other QBs. And I didn't even want him to play this year because I thought he had a lot of mechanical issues to work on and figured sitting and learning wouldn't hurt because he is so young.

Lamar was my #1 rated QB prospect last year but I think even I underestimated he impact his dynamic running ability could have. If you look at just the passing numbers he's still the #2 passer in this draft class only behind Baker who is waaayyyy out in front of the rest of the class in terms of passing only.

But when it comes to overall impact Lamar takes the cake. He completely lifted the offensive production on a team with a very limited supporting cast.

The team was 4-5 with a middling running game and underachieving passing game despite nearly leading the league in pass attempts at the time.

When Lamar took over at QB the Ravens had no margin for error. They had to win. And Lamar delivered. His dynamic running ability vaulted the Ravens from a bottom 1/3 run game to the #1 running game....and significantly increased the time of possession....all this while still being the #2 rookie passer. They went on 6-1 run with their only loss coming on the road in overtime to one of the top teams in the league.

There is no doubt the Ravens defense played a huge role in the win streak. But it was the same defense that was only 4-5 and on the outside looking in at the playoffs before Lamar took over.

The Raven's offense placed/places a high volume of runs within a short period of time on Lamar's plate and he's only missed a few plays due to being dinged up. Part of Lamar's running talent is the ability to avoid big hits and its gonna be crucial for him to keep avoid them because he's in harm's way quite often. (no jinx please)


Darnold was solid for a rookie. Missed some time due to injury. Doesn't have a good sporting cast. Bad OL, okay receivers and bad scheme.

Josh Allen's comp% 53 and adj.comp% 65 putting him firmly at the bottom ranking for rookies when it comes to metrics that speak to accuracy. But, Allen played with moxie. He missed some time due to injury he's kinda of reckless/Jake Lockerish runner. He's big, strong athletic kid willing to make plays anyway he can to help his talent starved team a win. Bad OL, unheralded receivers but decent scheme (although I wonder what he would look like in a scheme that used him more in the designed run game).


Rosen got beat up. If there is a blue print on how not to manage a rookie QB the Card's are writing version 2.0
Horrific OL, bad scheme that didn't protect the QB and wasted the talent of a decent supporting cast, changing OC mid-season.

With that being said I thought Rosen would find a way put up better numbers. His comp%55 was surprising. His adjusted comp% of 68 is only 1 better then Lamar's of 67 and many people in this forum consider Lamar inaccurate.

Rosen's issue was pressure. I thought Rosen was QB prospect that didn't often get away from pressure (especially from free rushers) and Zona's OL gave up a far too many pressures and free rushers...and Rosen struggled.

I think Rosen would look much different behind an OL like the Browns that could protect him.


But allow me this thought experiment....what would the Cardinal's look like if the only change they made was to have Lamar Jackson at QB with the Raven's current offensive scheme?


Anyhow I rank the rookie QBs in this order:
Lamar
Baker
Darnold
Allen
Rosen

PFF QB Grades - all QB's and Baker stands out alone among the rookies. Not even close.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pr...0932a-191351853

9. BAKER MAYFIELD, CLEVELAND BROWNS
Overall Grade: 84.5

Mayfield’s rookie campaign didn’t have the best of starts, but that was only because he was on the bench. On the field, the former Oklahoma standout was spectacular. He finished the year ranked second behind Wilson in big-time throw percentage at 8.0%.

25. JOSH ALLEN, BUFFALO BILLS
Overall Grade: 65.5

Allen’s legs saved him from an otherwise troublesome rookie season. His turnover-worthy play rate from a clean pocket (4.35) was the worst in the NFL in 2018, and his overall turnover-worthy play rate (4.69%) was good for third-worst.

26. SAM DARNOLD, NEW YORK JETS
Overall Grade: 64.7

Darnold finished the month of December with a 90.1 overall grade, which bodes well for the Jets’ future. He battled rookie growing pains and injury early in the season, which ultimately drove his grade down to an irreparable figure regardless of how well he played in December, but his increased big-time throw rate and improved play under pressure down the stretch is still a positive sign to cling to moving forward.

31. LAMAR JACKSON, BALTIMORE RAVENS
Overall Grade: 58.5

Jackson’s legs have the Ravens in the postseason – not his arm. He’s struggled with accuracy at all areas of the field and will struggle if asked to throw the football more against better defenses in the playoffs.

32. JOSH ROSEN, ARIZONA CARDINALS
Overall Grade: 49.1

Rosen’s offensive line was quite literally the worst in the NFL in 2018. As a result, he struggled to find rhythm in games and failed to flash any level of brilliance with game-to-game consistency. A handful of quality throws keeps him out of last place on this list, however.