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The best move that Haslam ever made was replacing Sashi w/Dorsey. ...and replacing Hue with Williams. I just wish they would have done both in the offseason so we'd be in the playoffs now. I'm highly doubtful we make the playoffs starting a rookie at QB but I do feel we would have a better record. I think it was Dorsey, not Haslam who called for Hue to be fired. Of course Haslam had to go along with it but had Dorsey not have pushed the issue who knows if it would have happened? I also feel pushing Haley out the door had a great impact as well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The best move that Haslam ever made was replacing Sashi w/Dorsey. ...and replacing Hue with Williams. I just wish they would have done both in the offseason so we'd be in the playoffs now. I'm highly doubtful we make the playoffs starting a rookie at QB but I do feel we would have a better record. I think it was Dorsey, not Haslam who called for Hue to be fired. Of course Haslam had to go along with it but had Dorsey not have pushed the issue who knows if it would have happened? I also feel pushing Haley out the door had a great impact as well. We only needed 2 more wins. I agree showing Haley the door had a huge impact. Who knows is right. Maybe it had to work out that way.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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I don't feel either of us can be sure. It's pure conjecture. But in the end things worked out for the best.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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No one knows for sure, but I was hoping we would concentrate on Dorsey/Sashi because they basically had the same job. There are already thousands of posts on the coaching situation.
I feel very confident in saying that Dorsey's player acquisition prowess far, far exceeds Sashi's and that I we are in much better shape moving forward w/Dorsey instead of Sashi.
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If Sashi posts here, I think you may find someone to disagree, otherwise, I think everyone else would feel that Dorsey is hands down better than Sashi.
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PFF Rookie class:
--#1 Rookie QB ... Mayfield
--#1 Rookie RB ... Chubb
--#1 Rookie CB ... Ward
If the award is for personnel only, then it should be a ringer.
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No one knows for sure, but I was hoping we would concentrate on Dorsey/Sashi because they basically had the same job. There are already thousands of posts on the coaching situation.
I feel very confident in saying that Dorsey's player acquisition prowess far, far exceeds Sashi's and that I we are in much better shape moving forward w/Dorsey instead of Sashi. But we didn't start winning until Dorsey fired Hue. Seems like he was a much heavier anchor than Sashi.
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To me Sashi vs Dorsey is an irrelevant comparison. We aren't where we are right now without either one of them.
Sashi was told to take a hike before his vision could be realized. There's no telling who is drafted if Sashi is still here. All we do know is that some of the people who helped Sashi draft were still here when Dorsey drafted.
When we hired Dorsey I said it was going to be interesting to see how Dorsey escapes the shadow of Sashi. A couple masterful moves and Dorsey has everyone thinking he's a genius. And I admit, it looks like Dorsey was brilliant with some of the roster moves he made. Kizer for Randall good example.
I'm not discrediting what Dorsey has done. I'm saying Dorsey doesn't look as great without Sashi. Dorsey is more of an extension of what was started 2 years ago.
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To me Sashi vs Dorsey is an irrelevant comparison. We aren't where we are right now without either one of them. I agree. I'm not missing Sashi since he has left 76G, but I can also appreciate him for setting us up as he did.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Sashi’s plan seemed to have been pretty effective to a degree. Tank very hard and accumulate draft picks and cap space to stock up for the future. I think the intent was to build through the draft and continually roll things forward. Unfortunately I do think he made some misses, as any GM would. When he did let some of our better players go, it may have been with the intention of making us tank more. Let’s face it, without the 0-16 year we might not have Mayfield who looks to be our best QB in years..
Sashi also, I believe, intentionally messed up the trade for AJ mccaron which I believe also helped the franchise. He even did the crafty deal of picking up a 2nd rounder for cash and cap space that wasn’t being used in that trade for Brock.
The problem with Sashi’s approach was it couldn’t be endured. Hue basically had no chance. Now maybe Hue should have won some more games than he did but he just didn’t have enough ammo to win. By the time the team was 0-6 in the 2nd Hue season, I think he had lost the team in a way. Also the media, the fans., the owner.. couldn’t handle so much losing and apparent poor moves.
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The biggest factor was getting rid of Hue. Had we not done that, we would be sitting at maybe 4-12, Dorsey would look like a bum, and we would have some talking about extending Hue because of the remarkable turn in results in spite of a weak roster.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Just want to point out, if I recall correctly, the roster turnover from 2016-2017 was about equally (a whole boatload) lets just say a whole boatload of the roster, maybe even more than 35 of 53, I remember, just a ton, may have been a record.
My point is, they turned the roster almost completely, "two" years in a row, not just the one time.
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I would agree that Hue was the wrong guy for the job at the time. A different or better head coach could have made a world of difference. Losing was expected but not part of the plan.
If we want to blame someone it should fall squarely on the shoulders of the owner. Instead of pairing his "GM" with a HC they requested he gave them Hue because it was the sexy hire at the time. It was a doomed relationship.
Keeping a coach who regressed after a 1-15 season was a colossal mistake. A different HC and we might have been in the playoffs. We are the only team within the division who didn't make the playoffs with their rookie franchise quarterback. Heck, the ravens did it twice. Im just glad it's behind us and we've moved on. Bigger and better things are ahead.
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I thought the title of this thread and very first post were fairly clear. This is not intended to compare the executive vs the coach. It's about the executive. Thus, I compared him to Sashi rather than Hue.
As I said earlier, there are thousands of posts about Hue. But if that isn't enough, perhaps one of you can start a Hue vs Gregg Williams thread. But, please don't continue to hijack this thread.
While I respect the opinions of those who didn't think Sashi did a bad job, I have to disagree. He let too many quality players walk. He blew too many draft picks. He made curious roster decisions that upset his coaching staff. Not one team has been reported to be even interested in hiring him.
Meanwhile, John Dorsey turned this roster from the absolute worst in the league to one that is pretty decent.
Look at the QB room. Baker vs Kizer. Taylor vs Kessler. Stanton vs Hogan.
His WRs of Landry, Calloway, Perriman are much better than Britt, Coleman, and Louis.
All three of his offensive tackles are an upgrade over Coleman and Drango.
The FS is miles and miles better which allowed Peppers to move to his more natural position.
He upgraded the corners in a huge manner.
He added a promising OLB later in the off-season.
He was smart enough to know that you can use not only the draft, but free agency and trades to help build your team.
He brought in vets and a strong-willed QB to help change the culture.
He did this in just one year. It's amazing.
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See what happened? Dorsey's draft was better than every GM in the NFL and some people still insist that Sashi could have done just as well. Dorsey rebuilt the secondary. Got the QB pick right. Hit on ward AND got one of the best RB's in the draft in round 2. Stole people in the FA market, but Sashi wasn't part of the problem.
Some people never learn.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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See what happened? Dorsey's draft was better than every GM in the NFL and some people still insist that Sashi could have done just as well. Dorsey rebuilt the secondary. Got the QB pick right. Hit on ward AND got one of the best RB's in the draft in round 2. Stole people in the FA market, but Sashi wasn't part of the problem.
Some people never learn. Callaway might turn into a steel he seemed to get better every game
Joe Thomas #73
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It's funny how people dismiss the things they don't wish to see. Dorsey knew the talent level sucked when he got here. He revamped most of the roster. And not with bums but with "real players". He knew Hue couldn't be a winning coach with last years roster and he was right.
He also knew any average coach could win with the roster he assmebled. With that he made the coaching move when he did. So not only did Dorsey do more to improve this team in a single season than I've ever seen in all of my decades of being a Browns fan, he's also the one responsible for axing Hue and Haley.
Yet somehow "Sashi maybe, might, coulda, shoulda, woulda done the same".
It's stupidity in its purest form.
There's not a single QB on this roster from last year.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I can't see how getting rid of your best veterans, some right before the season starts,Haden. Then constantly trading back in drafts and taking inferior talent can be looked at as a good strategy. Sashi did one thing, decimated the team. Yeah, all the draft picks and money are a good thing now, but he did nothing to improve the team. Giving a starved fanbase a team, two years in a row, with very little talent and no chance for success IMO, is not a good thing. We hadn't had a winning season for years, and he made the team worse.
Therer is no proof that he would have done anything better had he had another year. Him passing on good QBs and many other top players to build cap space and draft picks was a slap in the face to die hard fans that wanted one thing, a team that wins.
"The Elf is killing the Curse"
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I was listening to one of the shows this morning and they were talking about which HC job opening was the most attractive. Louis Riddick, who is a former player and FO guy, mentioned how Cleveland's current FO is all the rage in the NFL. I'm paraphrasing, but the message was clear. Dorsey and the other guys have done a great job.
I can only speak for myself, but I have never felt this confident in a Brown's FO since our rebirth.
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Mmmm. Let's see here.
Dorsey up for Executive of the Year.
Sashi out of a job and not up for anything including ever being hired again as a GM.
Is there a comparison?
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All Pro
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Device, who was the head coach they requested?? I do not think I ever heard.
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Sashi ... did nothing to improve the team. In the short term, you're right. However, he set us up nicely for the longer term and Dorsey is now reaping the benefits...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I see things as you relate it, Pit. No reason to revise history with some of our situations. Nothing to be had with "woulda, coulda, mighta. . . " and such. Dorsey saved the patient with some sound triage; he stopped the bleeding, got talent, cauterized some losers, and got the patient on its feet. That might be a stretch, but tossing some folks and promoting the right "others" showed me we were better than we played. He exposes problems and addresses them.
I would vote for him for what he did to improve and for what he stopped. Our culture change is named Williams Kitchens Dorsey.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Some guys trying to save a lot of face for backing one of the worst HC's in history, are trying to spin Dorsey being very good into Sashi being very bad.
We were still losing until Dorsey convinced Haslam to fire Hue. Sashi couldn't fire Hue, but at least he saved the franchise by torpedoing Hue's AJ McCarron trade. We'd still be losing games now if that happened.
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Sounds like an insult, but I won't reciprocate.
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Sounds like an insult, but I won't reciprocate. It was common sense. I hope that isn't insulting to you.
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Device, who was the head coach they requested?? I do not think I ever heard. It was reported that the front office wanted McDermott or Patricia. The owner picked Hue.
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Device, who was the head coach they requested?? I do not think I ever heard. This thread is about our front office and is not an head coach thread. There are plenty of those threads on the board. I don't think you are guilty of trying to hijack the thread, but please understand, others are. Please, can we keep the thread on topic? Please?
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Some want to rewrite history. Eh. What can you do?
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I can see the usual stuff starting. I do not think this is "rewriting history." I thought the title of this thread and very first post were fairly clear. This is not intended to compare the executive vs the coach. It's about the executive. Thus, I compared him to Sashi rather than Hue.
As I said earlier, there are thousands of posts about Hue. But if that isn't enough, perhaps one of you can start a Hue vs Gregg Williams thread. But, please don't continue to hijack this thread.
While I respect the opinions of those who didn't think Sashi did a bad job, I have to disagree. He let too many quality players walk. He blew too many draft picks. He made curious roster decisions that upset his coaching staff. Not one team has been reported to be even interested in hiring him.
Meanwhile, John Dorsey turned this roster from the absolute worst in the league to one that is pretty decent.
Look at the QB room. Baker vs Kizer. Taylor vs Kessler. Stanton vs Hogan.
His WRs of Landry, Calloway, Perriman are much better than Britt, Coleman, and Louis.
All three of his offensive tackles are an upgrade over Coleman and Drango.
The FS is miles and miles better which allowed Peppers to move to his more natural position.
He upgraded the corners in a huge manner.
He added a promising OLB later in the off-season.
He was smart enough to know that you can use not only the draft, but free agency and trades to help build your team.
He brought in vets and a strong-willed QB to help change the culture.
He did this in just one year. It's amazing.
_________________________ I am going to ask for help from other posters to not allow a few to hijack this thread.
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Everything has been on topic here.
Dorsey is great.
He wouldn't have accomplished what he did without Sashi.
Neither Dorsey or Sahsi were good enough to win games with Hue Jackson as the coach however.
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Come on, man! I don't want to fight. Please stop.
If you want to bash Hue, can you start a new thread or take it to one of the many others that are already bashing him? Please?
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I'm not sure where you see where the hijacking is taking place?
The thread is titled John Dorsey should be Executive of the Year
You thought you could extend that thread by bringing up your animosity for the guy he replaced.
I added valuable content to your extension by pointing out the inept head coach that neither one of them could win with.
It's all common sense and you find that insulting.
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You thought you could extend that thread by bringing up your animosity for the guy he replaced. That was rather obvious.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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He was smart enough to know that you can use not only the draft, but free agency and trades to help build your team. This is just one of your typical sarcastic groupthink comments. If you or anyone here would like to have a real conversation about the Browns, Dorsey, or why we are where we are without inflicting your agendas, let me know. Until then, carry on.
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Some guys trying to save a lot of face for backing one of the worst HC's in history, are trying to spin Dorsey being very good into Sashi being very bad. This is exactly what is happening in this thread. I'm glad other people see it too.
Tackles are tackles.
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The way I see it, we sucked for most of 20 years, and all of the last 10. So, we changed the plan, sucked even worse for two years, and laid the groundwork for a decade of excellence.
I think we learned from the Tim Couch experience. Two years ago, when we could have drafted Wentz, we gave up 66 sacks. Last year, 50. Wentz is looking a bit injury prone in Philly, how do you think he would be with 116 sacks his first two years?
Sashi sucked, but I think he was supposed to, maybe not quite as bad, but we would not be where we are now if we had been just slightly better, so what would be the point.
Dorsey is a much more capable talent getter, but he was able to do the job he did largely because of the high picks, extra picks, and available cash that Sashi made available. Starting with Dorsey two years ago we might, or might not, be as good as we are now.
Hue is a side issue. He sucked as well. Not sure why he lasted as long as he did. He sucked with talent, and he sucked without talent.
Dorsey got more talent, but he would have gotten less with fewer assets. Clearly better than Sashi, but his job description might have been different.
Dorsey entered the job with much more to work with than the guy he replaced.
The people who replaced Hue had exactly the same assets to work with, and did much better with no other major variables for comparison.
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I knew that there would be a certain group of posters who would hijack this thread and make this personal. They always do. However, I was hoping some of you are not part of that group would participate and drown their crap up.
Thanks guys.
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I don't think blowing-up a roster and losing a ton of games is all that hard to do. Anyone can not re-sign good players, lose games due to lack of talent, trade high draft picks that are coveted by other teams for future picks, etc.
However, building a quality roster that is competitive is an entirely different story. In just one year, John Dorsey has dramatically improved the roster and the culture of the team. Deflecting things onto others, throwing insults at other posters, and rewriting history through the vehicle of wild speculation does not change that fact!
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J/C
The way this roster looks now from where it was when Dorsey took over is night and day to the good side. I can only imagine much better it will continue to get in the next year or so. If it's not Dorsey as Executive of the Year, I just can't imagine who it would be.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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