DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Freddie Kitchens to be named head coach of the Cleveland Browns

Really wish we could have kept Gregg too. His ego use to irk the heck out of me, especially year 1, but year 2 something changed and I started to like the guy. Maybe it was the winning, idk.

Something noticed here is he didn't thank the organization. Just the fans and community. Likely intentional.

What do you meaning removing him? I fully expect him to still call the plays.

How many wins has GW had against the Steelers since he's been here ? (answer) 0




Pretty much Blitzed ..not very innovating..

Kitchens is/was Haley’s guy.

I considered that, but did Haley have the power to name him Associate HC? I don't think so. Somebody above Haley made that decision.

I sense the fine, Italian hand of Don Vito Dorsey in that designation.

j/c:

I was pretty happy that Freddie got the HC job, but I'm getting that all-too-familiar sick feeling in my stomach after seeing how many coaches are being terminated.

I combine that w/the fact that the Browns were 1-6-1 against teams w/winning records last year and both the tie and the win were before the changes to the coaching staff were made.......and I wonder how fans will react to Kitchens if the team doesn't meet their lofty expectations?

Kitchens will be an easy target if we don't win. His resume isn't all that. He fired a bunch of coaches. He is kind of dumpy looking. People could get mean.

I won't be the one dissing him then, just like I questioned all the other hires and then ended up defending the dudes after the mob turned on them.

I really liked Freddie as our OC. Bright guy. I loved his schemes and philosophy. I am also hoping he has huge success. But, I am not sure we are as good as some people think we are. Even our wins were against teams that were in the midst of huge tailspins and Denver was playing backup safeties at corner. I could picture this getting ugly.

But, make no mistake. I will be defending Freddie if or when it happens.

Fredd probably saw all/any dysfunction on this staff. Maybe he's systematically eliminating it? Just a shot in the dark. I'm sure he has guys on his list he wants or will extend offers.

I admit to not being as comfortable with FK as HC than if GW had been given the position...

I'm more comfortable with Freddie...I want to see what he can do..Younger..I love his personality.. I had some fear that GW would do to this team what he did to the Bills..That sat in the back of my mind a bit.

I'm not knocking Freddie. I'm just saying our late-season run might be a bit deceiving. We beat teams that were nose-diving and we got blown out by KC, which is understandable, but we also got drilled by Houston and they are not all that. They got owned by Indy in the playoffs.

We also got killed by the Chargers earlier in the year. We did beat Baltimore early in the year and played them tough in the last game. We tied the Steelers, but got worn down by them in game 2.

The one that concerns me the most is the Denver game. Their defensive backfield was decimated and we really did not have a good passing day against them. A win is a win, but I'm just not sure if we are as good as most of our fans think we are.

And believe me, Freddie will be an easy target, if we should not meet the expectations of the media and the fans.

I was somewhat surprised by the hire but I'm far from upset. Of course, there are questions that have to be answered. Kithchen's needs development in terms of responding to the million different demands of the Head Coach position. Is there a plan? How fast can he get up to speed with all of the managerial considerations? Will Kitchens call plays? Who will be the OC? There is considerable turnover on the coaching staff, including the offensive staff. How does that shake out? A DC needs to be hired. What will be the process for making those hires? How much say does Freddie get in that process? Those are just some of the unknowns that have to be navigated. I'm sure Dorsey will support him and guide the process so, I have a level of comfort that FK can grow into the role but like with Mayfield, I don't expect to see the full product for 2 or 3 years.

The right priorities, in terms of where his focus needs to be in year one, have to be made. I'm cautiously optimistic that the organization can make the necessary adjustments.

[quote]but I'm just not sure if we are as good as most of our fans think we are.

And believe me, Freddie will be an easy target, if we should not meet the expectations of the media and the fans./quote]

That's true...In the wins they had..Baltimore was really considered the better team out of all the teams they beat.

Being the case..I would hope Freddie gets a pass this season if he doesn't live up to most expectations.

I feel it was best to hire Freddie now and give him this season.. Because if they didn't then Freddie may have gotten a chance to leave next season as another teams HC.

Got to let this season play out..

Him and Dorsey got a little bit too caught up in the 20th Anniversary of the Sopranos debuting.

Wonder if there’s going to be a PC tomorrow or wait until the Coordinators are hired

I agree w/you.

I believe I read on here somewhere that a PC would be tomorrow.

I would have to think Dorsey would have given the DC spot some thought. Perhaps he already has one in mind?

Dorsey decided on Freddie. That is good enough for me!

Congrats Freddie... rooting for ya... praying it's the right move...

I'm a bit less concerned about that game than you. True, it was not CLE's most impressive passing-wise, but I really didn't think it had as much to do with their level of play against us as it was Mayfield's woeful level of inaccuracy in the first half. Maybe it was the thin air, maybe he was too amped at the start of the game... but those balls were sailing on him all first half. Just a minor point I thought I'd bring up.

That said, I was a big fan of keeping Williams and Kitchen right where they were. Keep 'Junior' as the DC and see what we could do.

You and I are continuity guys from way back, so I'm sure you'll understand what I'm about to say:

Freddie Kitchens as HC was my second-favorite scenario. Had we hired from outside, I'm not sure FK or GW would have stayed. Our best shot at continuity and consistency was maintaining the status quo.

Now here's where I try on my glasses- the pair with one orange lens and one brown lens. We have never had a coaching turnover with this much talent on both sides of the ball. I'm hoping that the talent level we presently possess is malleable enough to take to new coaching/instruction and continue to grow and improve. With some of the talentless squads we've seen in the past, the slightest hitch or snag was enough to completely unravel the fabric that held us together. Maybe CLE is finally good enough to take the changes in stride and give us quality product next year. I'm hoping that JDorsey will help Freddie along with staffing the coaching ranks. He's been around forever, knows everybody in da biz... and probably has a good idea of who might take well to what we're trying to do.

I'm like you: won't be breathing deeply until I see these vacancies filled with quality dudes who can help us hit the next levels.


.02

J/C ....,

A coach does not get a head coach spot, by hiring in, or by promotion, by saying "I am going to just keep everyone here who was already here.". He has a plan, with personnel, coaches, potential additions in free agency, and so forth. He shows the team his vision of what the team can become, not just a vision of staying what they are. (unless that team is the Pats of the past decade and a half)

Freddie has been in the NFL for 13 years. He likely has tons of contacts, and people he has already discussed potentially joining his staff if he got a head coaching job.

I was hoping for Dabo Swinney, but I'm ok with whatever Dorsey chooses.

Glad it was Kitchens over GW....

j/c

I'm posting this article from the official team site because it contains information that gives me confidence that the team can withstand this latest coaching change and even build on the foundation set from the '18 season.
___________________________________________


Browns players confident they can play for any coach after they thrived following midseason changes
102218-jimmy-watkins-headshot
Jimmy Watkins
CONTRIBUTOR


The Browns will exit 2018 with fewer questions to answer than they entered with, but a sizable question still looms

Who will coach the team?

Will the Browns retain Gregg Williams and/or Freddie Kitchens? And if not, who will replace them? It’s among the most important choices John Dorsey’s management team will decide during its tenure. After all, the future of the team is at stake.

The players don't quite see it that way, however. In their minds, the Browns’ future rests in their hands, regardless of who’s wearing headsets.


“This is a players’ team,” wide receiver Jarvis Landry said. “Our team is the locker room.”

Landry and his teammates adopted this mentality when the Browns changed coaches midseason. They believed the season was headed in one of two directions. One would lead to more losses and dysfunction, an abject diversion from the goals they’d set early in the season.

The other? To band together and raise their standards. That’s the direction the players chose, and that’s a large reason why the Browns boast one of the most attractive head-coaching destinations in the league.

“We decided that we weren’t going to give in,” center JC Tretter said. “We were gonna give everything we got and do whatever we can to turn everything around.”

For his part, Tretter played through a high ankle sprain for the second half of the season. He never entertained the thought of sitting out because he considered it giving in, and he’d promised his teammates he wouldn’t. Sentiments like that are why emotions poured out of the Browns locker room after Sunday’s loss in Baltimore.


Veteran guard Joel Bitonio said the end of every year is emotional, especially when a team loses its last game. This year’s emotions stemmed from different origins, though. A group of teammates that considered each other family knew that their family would change next season. This exact group would never be replicated.

Dorsey took note of the emotions flowing through the locker room. He saw an exhausted group. But the investment that led to the exhaustion is what gives him great faith that the Browns will excel under whoever is named the next coach.

“It was a little emotional after last night’s game, but there were strength of men in that locker room,” Dorsey said. “And there is nothing better than the strength of the men in that locker room to lead those younger players and lead this organization. They are looking forward to 2019 and they will set that bar very high for themselves as well, and that is all you can ask for.”

So when next year rolls around, the returning Browns will be challenged with recreating that bond with a new batch of teammates. Those new teammates won’t share the experience that this year’s group shared, but they’ll be introduced to a new coach, just like the 2018 Browns were midseason.

And the 2018 Browns know how to navigate that situation.

“We play for (our teammates),” defensive end Myles Garrett said. “Keeping that same mentality from this year to next year, and we’ll be able to hold firm through whatever happens through the offseason.”

I have an open mind about it. I'm not saying it will be good or bad. I can simply see it going either way.

Where we differ is that I don't believe there is this is huge gap in the quality of coaches in the NFL. The media tells us there is. Fans make the same claims.

However, as someone who has built personal and professional relationships w/many high school and college coaches and several NFL coaches, I don't see the great disparity. I'm saying you can X and O if you are in the NFL and you are also probably a pretty good teacher. You will find a larger gap in the high school ranks from your best coaches to your lesser coaches, but man, even in college, the excellence of most of these guys is extremely evident.

I think staffs are built by past associations and familiarity. That makes sense on many levels. Your neck is on the line and you want to hire guys that you trust. That doesn't mean they are better coaches, but I can see why it is the norm.

I don't think most of this firings and new hires are a big deal one way or the other. I have two concerns.

The first one is the DC. Changing schemes could have a significant impact on the roster. We have linemen like Ogunjobi and Myles that are not great fits for a base 3-4 defense. We don't have a second safety to play a Tampa 2. Peppers needs to be closer to the LOS in order to be effective. He is not good in space w/complex coverage responsibilities. I have other examples, but I think you get my point.

The second concern is that I think the biggest difference I saw after the coaching change in mid-season was how much better the play design and play calling was under Freddie. Is he going to retain those duties as the HC? Will that responsibility adversely affect his HC duties? Will the HC duties be a detriment to his OC capabilities?

I am not predicting doom and gloom. Just trying to keep it real because next year's expectations are going to be astronomical and I've seen the "excited" fans and local media hacks change direction rather quickly when their expectations are not realized.

Vers, I got a lot out of that last post. That was excellent.

I'll disagree with you later...

LOL. I can't wait.

You and I can disagree w/out all the other BS.

J/C

I'm over the moon with this hire: All that matters, in my opinion, is that we've seen Kitchens running a highly functional offense. Despite having rookies at the helm, our passing and rushing offense was amongst the best in the league following Kitchens' taking of the reigns. That matters.

Add in the clear respect he has from the men in the locker room, and it seems like a smart hire. The Browns didn't try to outsmart themselves. No reach on an external hire. No attempt to get water from a stone in a coaching has-been. Just the promotion of a man who showed he was worthy of a promotion.

I'd like to see some experience around him to lean on, but I'm excited to see what Kitchens can do with the continued development of this young offense.

VERS...

I agree on a couple counts. One, the expectations are going to be a bit out of control, and there will inevitably be a lot of fans upset if/when we don't start out clicking on all cylinders. But I have to think an experienced guy like Dorsey is not going to be swayed by that unless Freddie is an absolute trainwreck.

Second, I don't like how many guys were let go, because for a guy who's never put together a staff, the easier approach would be to keep more than you fire. But other than the OL coaches, I can't really go to bat for any of those guys, and we don't know how many wanted out, as Hue/Haley/GW guys.

I do disagree on one point, though. Yes, we really only beat teams that were under .500. Guess what, about half the teams we play next year will be under .500 too. If you beat the teams you are supposed to beat, that is a GOOD thing...ask the Steelers. Yes, we got boat raced by the Chiefs, Chargers, and Texans. So did a lot of other teams. All that says is we are not a top tier team. And despite losing records, I would say that the Broncos and Panthers are not gimmes.

Bottom line, with even equal performances from O & D in 2019, we're likely still in the 8-10 win range. If Dorsey can hit a couple more homeruns and coaching is average, we could start to really compete with those top teams on gameday.

Nice rebuttal. No name calling. No insults. No character assassination. Instead, civil debate w/logical thinking.

I agree, and these are both extremely valid concerns.

While 3-4 vs 4-3 can be somewhat overblown because the base defence in the NFL is a hybrid in the modern era, we aren't well equipped for many 3-4 looks. From both a talent and experience perspective. We're very well built for our 4-3, and our core talent is primed for that system. With particular emphasis on Garrett and Peppers, we'd be messing with a good thing. Our defence wasn't great, but I feel Williams was a big part of that problem. He was too prone to being overly-aggressive and somewhat predictable, in my opinion.

I also agree that I like Kitchens for his offense and playcalling: But how much of that remains as a head coach? If it does remain, is he prepared for the responsibility of serving as both head coach and pseudo-OC?

Those are legitimate questions. I think there are positive answers, but it does remain to be seen.

Another good post. I like the fact that you brought up the point about base and hybrid defenses because that is very true.

I also agree that there are positive answer possibilities to the questions. It's good to look at things from all angles.

At the end of the day, I am happy that we hired Kitchens. He impressed me this year. I just hope the masses don't turn on him.

I like the hire. Most important thing here was getting a HC that would have a relationship with Baker and know how to use him. In a small sample size, Kitchens showed he could do that.

We’re going to have to have some experienced people in place around him. The DC is probably the most important piece going forward.

But the guy is highly quotable, with a feel-good story. If he wins in Cleveland, the city will regard him like Chicago did Ditka.

That's purely your OPINION - I would say it does. Especially with the train wreck they have going on there.

I don't want to take away what Gregg did after Hue was fired, but lets be honest, his Def has not been good since he was here. We have been in the bottom 5 in about every stat other than turnovers. We couldn't stop the run, and struggled against any decent offense. IMO, he was overrated.

I think this is why people are sad he is gone, he was a funny guy and had fire. Something we have not had in awhile. Watch a Freddie presser, you will love him just as much.

ehhhhh, our defense was not that good. Yes we turned the ball over, but we gave up wayyyyyy to much IMO.

I disagree again. I think its pretty obvious that BAKER is the continuity we need. Freddie + Baker is more important than Gregg his son and Kitchens leaving in 2 years. The QB position is the most important position in football, and on this team.

You realize Dorsey is the man that controls the roster, right? Sheesh.

Once again, those were guys that were let go not because of a coaching change, but a GM change. . . . .

Elaborating on the 4-3 vs. 3-4 debate:

In an ideal world, I would prefer to retain the 4-3 “base”, but I just don’t think it matters as much in the modern NFL. There are 4-3 defenses that assign linemen with two-gap responsibilities and 3-4 defenses that unleash linemen with one-gap responsibilities.

Besides, most NFL teams spend a plurality of defensive snaps in nickel and dime packages to match offensive strength and even nickel and dime packages can differ from coach-to-coach. For example, a coach with a 3-4 base could have a more aggressive nickel package than a coach with a 4-3 base. Some coaches feature a 4-2-5 with three cornerbacks to maximize coverage potential. Others feature a 4-2-5 with a third safety as the slot corner to provide the best blend of run/pass personnel. Others still feature a 3-3-5 that sacrifices the strength of a fourth down lineman for the speed of a third linebacker. The latter is far more common in college than the NFL, but you will occasionally see defensive coordinators employ it just to show offenses something different. But each variant is still a nickel defense.

That’s why the priority needs to be hiring the most competent coach.

For example, Teryl Austin favors a 4-3 base. But, not unlike some 3-4 coaches, Austin is known for dropping pass rushers into coverage to create confusion. So, in practical terms, it might look the like Gregg Williams’ defense, but the result is different because you’re playing a pass rusher in space.

On the other hand, Wade Philips favors a 3-4 base. But, not unlike some 4-3 coaches, Phillips is known for almost exclusively putting pass rushers into pass-rushing positions. So, it might look different, but the result is similar because you’re letting pass rushers pressure the quarterback.

Well put.
I think some people just ASSume we just handed him the keys by judging him on field and such with no more than that.
I can rest assured in saying Freddie went into the interview room prepared with a vision and plan in place for his staff, players and how he stands on discipline and game planning and blowed Mr. Dorsey away.
Dorsey's future is all in as well. He doesn't wanna mess this up either.
If this was Haslam I might wonder but John Dorsey was SUPER impressed with Freddie to make this hire.
There is NO DOUBT !!!

.

IMO this was a very good hire. It makes complete sense because of the job he did with BM and how much better our O performed. Our O looked night and day compared to what it was with Hue and Haley here. I actually felt we could move the ball on any D and we did. Freddie K. has every right to choose who he wants on his staff so the house cleaning is not a shock to me. I feel on D he needs to hire someone who runs the same type of D, the 4-3, and has a lot of experience. He needs to hire someone and let him run the D so he can further concentrate on what he does best. The DC should also be someone he can lean on much like the situation with the Rams and Wade Phillips/ Sean Mcvay. JMO

Just have a moment to pop in ask about a time for the presser or if even scheduled for today. Thanks!