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Just so all three of you know.......I prefer those types of conversations than something like this that appeared earlier on this page. Some are still upset the last regime was fired, and now even more upset that their guys are being let go.
Personally, the more we get rid of the old regime that in house the better. We don't need any more infighting or any of that bad blood flowing around this team. JMO I'd rather discuss the football aspects even if it isn't a big deal than be subjected to that crap.
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Based on the tendencies of most of the teams in the league, first down is now a clear passing down and would require a defense to not have more than two linebackers on the field. Here are the pass to run ratios for each team. You can play with the chart to see numbers by 1st down, 2nd down, 3rd down, all downs, field position, yards to go, etc... Situational Run:Pass Ratios
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Based on the tendencies of most of the teams in the league, first down is now a clear passing down and would require a defense to not have more than two linebackers on the field. Here are the pass to run ratios for each team. You can play with the chart to see numbers by 1st down, 2nd down, 3rd down, all downs, field position, yards to go, etc... Situational Run:Pass Ratios Oh my goodness! Look at all those numbers and percentages! 
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Blah, ok. You don’t have to yell at us.
Wise words spoken by sages
From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
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Vance Joseph has been around forever and I know almost nothing about him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/JoseVa0.htmTo my surprise he's only been a defensive coordinator one year out his entire career. If you would have asked me, I would have said he was a coordinator much more than that. He started working in the NFL under Mike Nolan with the 49ers, then to the Texans with Wade Phillips as his defensive coordinator, and then to the Bengals with Marvin Lewis. In his one year as a defensive coordinator the Dolphins were below average on defense according to DVOA.
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Vance Joseph has been around forever and I know almost nothing about him. I don't like the sexual misconduct allegations that seem to follow him around.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Vance Joseph has been around forever and I know almost nothing about him. I don't like the sexual misconduct allegations that seem to follow him around. I hadn't heard about that. But I would agree with you on your take.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Pretty cool that we are at least hiring an offensive coordinator. That will take a ton off of a Kitchens plate.
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I like the idea of Monkin as the OC. I think He and FK could come up with some pretty awesome offensive game plans
Think about this.
What if they both called plays.
On game one does 3Q, another the each do 2Q
By mixing it up, they would make it really hard for opponents to find tendencies. No matter how hard we consciously try, subconsciously we all have them. But if they don't know who is calling the play then trying to figure out those tendencies would be almost impossible.
Last edited by Jester; 01/10/19 06:29 PM.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Was this before or after you heard the Browns were interviewing Jim Bob Cooter?
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Whoever Kitchens hires as OC, I want Freddie calling the plays. He is what got us here. Williams had a big part in keeping the team together and instilling some discipline. His "competition" segments improved the play on both sides of the ball. But, IMO, Freddie taking over the offense is what made the difference. The defense still could not stop the run and STs were still terrible, but the play of the offense carried the team and made the difference.
RIP, Jim
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Whoever Kitchens hires as OC, I want Freddie calling the plays. He is what got us here. Williams had a big part in keeping the team together and instilling some discipline. His "competition" segments improved the play on both sides of the ball. But, IMO, Freddie taking over the offense is what made the difference. The defense still could not stop the run and STs were still terrible, but the play of the offense carried the team and made the difference. Only if he wants to. That's a lot to put on the plate of a first year HC. As long as it's his playbook, calling the plays is a little over-rated anyway. He could assign that to someone else and still jump in if it's a crucial situation.
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Whoever Kitchens hires as OC, I want Freddie calling the plays. He is what got us here. Williams had a big part in keeping the team together and instilling some discipline. His "competition" segments improved the play on both sides of the ball. But, IMO, Freddie taking over the offense is what made the difference. The defense still could not stop the run and STs were still terrible, but the play of the offense carried the team and made the difference. Only if he wants to. That's a lot to put on the plate of a first year HC. As long as it's his playbook, calling the plays is a little over-rated anyway. He could assign that to someone else and still jump in if it's a crucial situation. His feel for the game and how he calls it is what got him the job. Many of the new young coaches are calling the plays, I don't think it is as hard as many make it out to be for a first time head coach, or even a veteran coach. The key is to have someone with experience handling the defense. When calling the plays you should be dialed into what is happening on the field and have a good awareness of the clock and such things. I think Hue had difficulty handling this his first year. McVay is doing it with no problems.
RIP, Jim
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I demand the return of the "Amoeba Defense" of Rob Ryan!!
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We'll see if he and Dorsey want that in his first year soon.
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Whoever Kitchens hires as OC, I want Freddie calling the plays. He is what got us here. Williams had a big part in keeping the team together and instilling some discipline. His "competition" segments improved the play on both sides of the ball. But, IMO, Freddie taking over the offense is what made the difference. The defense still could not stop the run and STs were still terrible, but the play of the offense carried the team and made the difference. Only if he wants to. That's a lot to put on the plate of a first year HC. As long as it's his playbook, calling the plays is a little over-rated anyway. He could assign that to someone else and still jump in if it's a crucial situation. His feel for the game and how he calls it is what got him the job. Many of the new young coaches are calling the plays, I don't think it is as hard as many make it out to be for a first time head coach, or even a veteran coach. The key is to have someone with experience handling the defense. When calling the plays you should be dialed into what is happening on the field and have a good awareness of the clock and such things. I think Hue had difficulty handling this his first year. McVay is doing it with no problems. Good points. I wonder if the real challenge for a HC pulling double duty has more to do with how he handles his plate vs. how much is on it.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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What's Ray Horton or Dave Campo up to these days?
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What's Ray Horton or Dave Campo up to these days? Ray Horton?  You Boofer are an absolute MAD MAN! (or WOMAN...) I love it! LOL
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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What's Ray Horton or Dave Campo up to these days? Ray Horton? You Boofer are an absolute MAD MAN! (or WOMAN...) I love it! LOL Only if he comes back with a long curly 'fro this time.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Only if he comes back with a long curly 'fro this time. 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Vance Joseph has been around forever and I know almost nothing about him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/JoseVa0.htmTo my surprise he's only been a defensive coordinator one year out his entire career. If you would have asked me, I would have said he was a coordinator much more than that. He started working in the NFL under Mike Nolan with the 49ers, then to the Texans with Wade Phillips as his defensive coordinator, and then to the Bengals with Marvin Lewis. In his one year as a defensive coordinator the Dolphins were below average on defense according to DVOA. Sounds like he's a 3-4 guy. So if hired we get to blow up the entire D again. Man every time we go through this crap we have to completely tear it down to the studs before rebuilding again. Why the hell not just hire a guy that runs what we already do?
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Whoever Kitchens hires as OC, I want Freddie calling the plays. He is what got us here. Williams had a big part in keeping the team together and instilling some discipline. His "competition" segments improved the play on both sides of the ball. But, IMO, Freddie taking over the offense is what made the difference. The defense still could not stop the run and STs were still terrible, but the play of the offense carried the team and made the difference. Only if he wants to. That's a lot to put on the plate of a first year HC. As long as it's his playbook, calling the plays is a little over-rated anyway. He could assign that to someone else and still jump in if it's a crucial situation. His feel for the game and how he calls it is what got him the job. Many of the new young coaches are calling the plays, I don't think it is as hard as many make it out to be for a first time head coach, or even a veteran coach. The key is to have someone with experience handling the defense. When calling the plays you should be dialed into what is happening on the field and have a good awareness of the clock and such things. I think Hue had difficulty handling this his first year. McVay is doing it with no problems. Worked out great for Hue Jackson. Kitchens has never BEEN a HC before. So sure let's make him the defacto OC as well. Being a HC in the NFL and running the entire show himself is way too easy. Let's pile more on his shoulders. Would I LIKE him to be able to call the plays? Yeah. But that is asking a LOT of a first-year head coach that's never done it before. Considering we will probably blow up the D again which puts even more pressure on our new HC.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Whoever Kitchens hires as OC, I want Freddie calling the plays. He is what got us here. Williams had a big part in keeping the team together and instilling some discipline. His "competition" segments improved the play on both sides of the ball. But, IMO, Freddie taking over the offense is what made the difference. The defense still could not stop the run and STs were still terrible, but the play of the offense carried the team and made the difference. Only if he wants to. That's a lot to put on the plate of a first year HC. As long as it's his playbook, calling the plays is a little over-rated anyway. He could assign that to someone else and still jump in if it's a crucial situation. His feel for the game and how he calls it is what got him the job. Many of the new young coaches are calling the plays, I don't think it is as hard as many make it out to be for a first time head coach, or even a veteran coach. The key is to have someone with experience handling the defense. When calling the plays you should be dialed into what is happening on the field and have a good awareness of the clock and such things. I think Hue had difficulty handling this his first year. McVay is doing it with no problems. Worked out great for Hue Jackson. Kitchens has never BEEN a HC before. So sure let's make him the defacto OC as well. Being a HC in the NFL and running the entire show himself is way too easy. Let's pile more on his shoulders. Would I LIKE him to be able to call the plays? Yeah. But that is asking a LOT of a first-year head coach that's never done it before. Considering we will probably blow up the D again which puts even more pressure on our new HC. Kitchens is hiring an offensive coordinator.
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Vance Joseph has been around forever and I know almost nothing about him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/JoseVa0.htmTo my surprise he's only been a defensive coordinator one year out his entire career. If you would have asked me, I would have said he was a coordinator much more than that. He started working in the NFL under Mike Nolan with the 49ers, then to the Texans with Wade Phillips as his defensive coordinator, and then to the Bengals with Marvin Lewis. In his one year as a defensive coordinator the Dolphins were below average on defense according to DVOA. Sounds like he's a 3-4 guy. So if hired we get to blow up the entire D again. Man every time we go through this crap we have to completely tear it down to the studs before rebuilding again. Why the hell not just hire a guy that runs what we already do? As discussed extensively in this thread, there really isn’t much difference between defensive schemes these days as most teams only play two linebackers a good portion of the time. There will be little roster turnover with regards to the scheme.
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The difference is with a guy like Myles Garrett and all of our DLine, and most of our linebackers. Body types, sizes, and how they are used. That's the difference. We have to change out our DT's and probably our DE's now. We are also - for sure - investing heavily in LB's.
Also, rather than using Myles as a rushing DE, he will now be an OLB and asked to cover a LOT more.
I'm aware that some folks are going to say it's no big deal, but I'm not buying it. It *is* a big deal.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I agree. That's if we make those changes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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There are a lot of coaches who start out calling plays as head coach.
Lemme think for a minute:
Frank Reich
Sean Payton
Doug Peterson
Pat Shurmur
Jay Gruden
Jason Garrett
Bill O'Brian
Andy Reid
Matt Nagy
Sean McVay
Kyle Shanahan
And that's 11 out of 24 teams, since 8 teams are hiring new coaches. (if my math is right, but right now my brain is a little frazzled.
Head coaches can walk and chew gum, and they can run the team and also call plays.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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J/C - Any defensive coach worth his salt will adapt schematically to the players otherwise they are setting themselves up to fail. Just MHO.
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Vance Joseph will be the guy, JMHO
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Not too worried about the D when they were so inconsistent and routinely got gashed in the run game.
Some goal line stops and a flurry of early season turnovers was nice but overall they got beat up at times.
Last edited by 1oldMutt; 01/11/19 05:47 AM.
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Hope I’m wrong, but I think this is just another huge mistake in a long line of mistakes by the Browns.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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We hope you are wrong too.
It's a bit of a risk, but a calculated risk. Freddie seems to garner the respect of the players, so that is a big step.
I think it's going to work out well. I hope I am right.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The difference is with a guy like Myles Garrett and all of our DLine, and most of our linebackers. Body types, sizes, and how they are used. That's the difference. We have to change out our DT's and probably our DE's now. We are also - for sure - investing heavily in LB's.
Also, rather than using Myles as a rushing DE, he will now be an OLB and asked to cover a LOT more.
I'm aware that some folks are going to say it's no big deal, but I'm not buying it. It *is* a big deal.
It makes some difference. I just don’t think it makes much difference. Like I’ve said, my preference would be to retain a 4-3 base, but if the best coach available wants to transition to a 3-4, then so be it. I’d rather bring the sharpest mind into the fold than settle for a lesser one because of a slightly different preference. It isn’t even disastrous in terms of personnel. If they’re a smart “3-4 coach”, Myles Garrett is going to rush the passer 95% of the time. It might be out of a two-point stance, but he’s still getting after the quarterback. Emmanuel Ogbah fits the profile of a modern 3-4 defensive end. Larry Ogunjobi lacks the desired arm length but compensates by exploding into blockers before they can get their hands onto him. If it’s a one-gap 3-4, it’s not a deal-breaker. Genard Avery is an almost prototypical 3-4 outside linebacker. Joe Schobert is a versatile linebacker. He could transition to the inside of a 3-4. The biggest casualty is probably Christian Kirksey. You could not field him alongside Schobert and form a credible run defense. But, while Kirksey can be a nice player and team leader, he’s not irreplaceable. Beyond that, you’re talking about replacing replacement-level talent, if they don’t fit. I think guys like Coley, Thomas could still provide depth in an odd front, but there’s always churn at the bottom of the roster. We’d need a two-gap nose tackle, but Jonathan Hankins is a free agent again this year, for example. We brought him in for a workout last summer and, I suspect, didn’t offer him a contract because he didn’t fit our old defense; however, it shows the front office is aware of his skill set. To me, the biggest problem with switching to a 3-4 isn’t personnel or outscheming yourself, it’s being outschemed by top-tier quarterbacks and scheme-diverse offensive talent. Using “base” (3-4 personnel) vs. “base” (11 personnel), with New England as an example: Tom Brady often uses the no-huddle offense as a weapon once he gets his desired defensive grouping. If we were getting gashed on the ground in our nickel sub-package and reverted to base, or substituted based on short-yardage situation, then Brady is fully capable of ratcheting up the tempo and exploiting your weakness. Let’s say New England just converted a 3rd & 1. Brady orders the offense to the line. The Browns can’t substitute. Suddenly, Gronk goes from an in-line blocker to split out wide in a 3x1 set, Brady motions White out of the backfield and now the Browns are staring at a 4x1 empty set against base personnel. In that situation, most 3-4s are going to give their edge defenders coverage responsibilities. So, for the Browns, the result is Brady forcibly scheming Myles out of the play. It’s harder to do that with a 4-3. And, while that’s still a very bad situation from the Browns, it provides more hope by allowing for the possibility that Myles beats his blocker and affects the pass before the backend inevitably breaks.
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The difference is with a guy like Myles Garrett and all of our DLine, and most of our linebackers. Body types, sizes, and how they are used. That's the difference. We have to change out our DT's and probably our DE's now. We are also - for sure - investing heavily in LB's.
Also, rather than using Myles as a rushing DE, he will now be an OLB and asked to cover a LOT more.
I'm aware that some folks are going to say it's no big deal, but I'm not buying it. It *is* a big deal.
I don’t understand .... seriously ... That would be MORONIC .... what has King John done since he’s been here that leads u to believe he would do something SO STUPID? ... seriously .... WHY would he do that or allow Freddie to do it ... and why would Freddie wanna do it? ... What is it that makes u think for a second either of those guys would HIRE SOMEONE that wants to UNDER UTILIZE our talent and make us a less affective football team ... Was it when King John went and hired Freddie a decision that will give our rookie QB a chance to shine ... was it when Freddie built an O around THE TALENT HE had at his disposal as opposed to cramming an O down there throats that didn’t FIT THE TALENT ... I just don’t get it ... U guys are still living in the past ,.... WE HAVE REAL FOOTBALL PEOPLE running the show now ... No more Hue/Haley ... no more Sashi ... the thief has even backed the hell off ... Why would KJ allow something so INCOMPETENT to happen .. he’s not Sashi ... THANK GOD ... 
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That would be MORONIC .... what has King John done since he’s been here that leads u to believe he would do something SO STUPID? ... seriously ....
WHY would he do that or allow Freddie to do it ... and why would Freddie wanna do it? ...
What is it that makes u think for a second either of those guys would HIRE SOMEONE that wants to UNDER UTILIZE our talent and make us a less affective football team ...
There's a saying that's something to the effect of 'past actions indicate future performance'... or something like that. Seriously, it's been 20 years of consistent, terrible coaching decisions. We'll bring back Ray Horton under the banner of "3rd Time's a Charm"
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Thanks for joining us and posting ... i really enjoy your takes ... your the exact opposite of me in more than just spelling, grammar and sentance/paragraph structure ... *L* ... u make me think and see things from a different perspective .... thanks for that ... It does matter ... how much ... i dunno .... cfr says teams only play there base D 20% of the time ... thats 20% MINUMUM that we have a shot at UNDERUTILIZING MG ... WHY? ... why would u want to do that even 20% of the time .... and thats a MINUMUM ... If Joseph walks into the room and says I want the personal for my base D to be a 3- 4 and he is not willing to adapt to THE TALENT (MG alone would be a deal breaker) we have here now the interview for all intents and purposes should end right there ... I really don’t understand this line of thinking .... it makes no sense to me dawg .... Not even your well thought out and well written posts are swaying me an iota on this one ... i start down the road with your thinking and i just can’t get there ... Makes no sense to me dawg ... Thanks again for making me think ...
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