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Winslow not there, yet
BY STEVE DOERSCHUK
CHICAGO On one level, Kellen Winslow Jr.'s comeback season was astonishing. On another, it lacked a sense of wonder.
Can he find the old magic this year?
Winslow caught six passes in the preseason, when stats speak with a forked tongue. A couple of his plays plainly said "wow."
One thought behind his risky microfracture knee surgery was to get him cutting the way he did when he was all-world at Miami (Fla.).
"It did help a little bit," the 24-year-old tight end said of the procedure. "My knee does feel better this year. I know how to take better care of it now. But ..."
He paused before saying, "I'm not the old guy I used to be, yet. Hopefully, I can get there one day."
Another pause and ...
"Soon."
Next Sunday would work. The Steelers come to Cleveland for a Sept. 9 season opener.
Browns fans would love to see Winslow make hay against the team they hate most.
"You know what?" Winslow said. "The way I look at it, I love the Steelers, because they bring the best out in me.
"It's as big as a rivalry gets. I love playing the Steelers, because they bring out the best in the team, and it gets us so focused."
What Winslow hates:
"Last year. We didn't win any division games."
Winslow finally got to play in all six AFC North games after sitting out all 12 the previous two years.
Against the AFC North in '06, Winslow averaged five catches for 50.2 yards.
Against everybody else, he averaged 5.9 catches for 47.8 yards.
His season total of 89 catches was more than fine. The only NFL players with more were Andre Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Laveranues Coles and T.J. Houshmandzadeh, all wide receivers.
His per-catch average (9.8) and his touchdown total (three) are where the magic wasn't.
One of three Browns who practice in black Spandex to keep their legs warm, Winslow takes some comfort in his preseason.
"I started off a little shaky, but I thought we finished strong," he said. "It's not how you start. It's how you finish."
The start counts extra. After all, it's Steelers week.
The soundtrack of Pittsburgh's defense will change. Linebacker Joey Porter, whose postgame rant about Winslow last December got him fined, is gone.
"I think Troy is what makes them go, anyway ... Polamalu," Winslow said. "He's so good at what he does.
"Joey was the rah-rah guy. Troy makes them go."
Winslow has this vision about the opener. Catch a ball and never stop.
Reach Repository sports writer Steve Doerschuk at (330) 580-8347 or e-mail:
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What the hell is this guy smoking... Quote:
On one level, Kellen Winslow Jr.'s comeback season was astonishing. On another, it lacked a sense of wonder.
Can he find the old magic this year?
For cryin out loud,,, KW2 had 89 receptions and 800+ yards last season,, I have to WONDER, what the heck is wrong with this writher...He's an IDIOT
Does this guy really think the Browns are gonna put Winslow in a position to do damage to his body in Preseason,,,,, again, I repeat, this writer is an IDIOT from the word go..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sorry damn, I don't agree. For an 89-catch season, it was rather pedestrian. Here's why: Quote:
His per-catch average (9.8) and his touchdown total (three) are where the magic wasn't.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
what the heck is wrong with this writher...He's an IDIOT
Easy big fella... 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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LOL Thanks for the calm down Cal And Lamp,, the kid was coming off of some severe injuries,, one was of his own making and the other was sustained playing for the team,, But that doesn't matter. Those were severe no matter what the cause,, It was a Miracle that he could walk let alone put up the numbers he had.. so in reality (my reality, not necessarly yours) he's a stud... That might not have been his best year statisticly, but it was his most heroic year,, That would be hard to dispute.. This idiot reporter doesn't even take that into account.... OK,,, I'm breathing now,, I'm calming down,,, Breathe Breathe,,,, Breathe.. Ahhhhh,,, I'm feeling much better now
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hey, I love KW2, the next jersey I buy will be #80. He did a hell of a job last year considering the circumstances, and 89 grabs is nothing to sneeze at. It didn't always result in touchdowns though (not his fault obviously, but still...)
gmstrong -----------------
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Just a thought, but I expect the TEs to be much more involved inside the 20 this year under Chud's O.
I feel ya, Daman... after the broken fibula, then the knee injury and the surgeries, the year K2 posted last year was nothing short of miraculous. From what I've seen so far this year, he'll continue to be nothing short of solid, dependable and productive.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Then why aren't you on the wagon with me calling this reporter a complete idiot
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yeah Cal,, that's kinda what I was thinking,, By the way, don't forget the staph infection he had also,,,,, Only thing I can think of as to why this reporter would call KW into question is that 1. The reporter is an idiot and can't find something real to discuss,, or 2, The reporter is an idiot and can't think beyond the end of his nose,... or 3. The reporter is an IDIOT,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Winslow played against Baltimore in his first season... Had to point that out 
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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Yeah, forgot about the staph infection... Bonus - If you want to mix it up a little, here are a few things you might try: addle-brain, addle-head, ass, blockhead, boob, booby, chump, clod, cretin, dimwit, dodo, dolt, dope, dullard, dumb bunny, dumb cluck, dumb head, dumb ox, dumbo, dumdum, dummy, dunce, donkey, dork, dumbbell, dunderhead, fool, goon, halfwit, ignoramus, imbecile, jackass, jerk, kook, lamebrain, lunkhead, meathead, mental defective, moron, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, pinhead, pointy head, simpleton, stupe, stupid, tomfool, twit & yo-yo. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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C'mon it was more than all of us expected after the two injuries. I am so tired of hearing some fans complain about winslow and edwards not producing. They both were coming back from a torn acl.
Now they did have some off the feild issues, not keeping their mouth closed, but that just shows their passion. Give them a break noone has a spectacular year after ACL surgery. This is the year they "should" produce. If winslow does not improve his TD's, and Edwards gets less than 1,000 yds I will be one of the first to tear them apart.
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Well under the circumstances and playing with injuries, I'd say he did one hell of a job. Now if he did that with a nagging knee injurym what will he be like when he's fully healthy? He will be ripping it up.
This writer is high on something.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Whatever anyone says, Winslow still took YEARS of productivity off his career. He IS damaged goods. Whether you like it, he likes it, fans like it; whatever!!!! He is still damaged goods. Whether or not he can make it back to 100%, the odds are going against him every year that passes. Bottomline, he should have been gaining experience through his first three years--and then dominating. Instead, he haunts the hospital, rehab room, and sidelines over these three key years. Now he has come out behind, suffering chronic injuries to his knee, and vastly undermined his overall potential.
That is the enigma of K2. The guy is a gamer, who proved through immaturity to be a poor pick. Now he's trying to make up lost time with a knee that doesn't always work the way he wants it too. What he does the next few years, he owes to us. but he will never reach the level of potential that he had being drafted where he was out of Miami.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
Whatever anyone says, Winslow still took YEARS of productivity off his career. He IS damaged goods. Whether you like it, he likes it, fans like it; whatever!!!! He is still damaged goods. Whether or not he can make it back to 100%, the odds are going against him every year that passes. Bottomline, he should have been gaining experience through his first three years--and then dominating. Instead, he haunts the hospital, rehab room, and sidelines over these three key years. Now he has come out behind, suffering chronic injuries to his knee, and vastly undermined his overall potential.
That is the enigma of K2. The guy is a gamer, who proved through immaturity to be a poor pick. Now he's trying to make up lost time with a knee that doesn't always work the way he wants it too. What he does the next few years, he owes to us. but he will never reach the level of potential that he had being drafted where he was out of Miami.
I like the fact that KW2 is a gamer and has tried to put his career back together. Problem is.... I agree with everything you said. He is damaged goods that will never live up to his drafted potential. That's not saying he's not one of the top TEs in the game, as he is now.... Wow.... Think of what he could have been....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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I agree that K2 never will be what he could have been minus the injuries but I think he'll still be one of the Best TEs in the league. We'll have a better idea where he stands this year I think because he suffered the same problems as the QBs and run game in the lack of a good O line. With better pass protection K2 finally has a chance to stretch out defenses and with a true threat of the run will find it easier to make the big plays because the D has to stay honest defending it. I for one am looking forward to K2 knocking down Steeler CBs, outrunning the LBs and punishing the safeties like that annoying #43...whatever his name is...Polli-mollie or something? Someone tell that hippie to get a haircut.
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Poor pick? Dude put up 89 receptions 875 yards, how did Butch know he was gonna crash a motorcycle?
He obviously has talent, and its not like he had done anything to label him a bad egg except for yell after a college game because he was ticked off.
He's our best player right now, pray he lasts 5 more years.
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I like the fact that KW2 is a gamer and has tried to put his career back together. Problem is.... I agree with everything you said. He is damaged goods that will never live up to his drafted potential. That's not saying he's not one of the top TEs in the game, as he is now.... Wow.... Think of what he could have been....
--------------------
Would have, could have, should have. Hindsight is always 20/20. Let's talk about what is going on now and how things can be made better...
I see some irony here.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Bottomline, he has not, and most likely will not, live up to the potential that he had coming out of Miami. That equal a poor pick. He was suposed to be a revolutionary, franchise TE. A threat downfield and a leader for years and years.
Right now, he's had a decent year last year, and hopes to deliver the same for the next few years--but he is damaged--and struggled through last year. There is nothing to suggest that he will make any miraculous recovery. he said himself that he will probably never be back at the form he was at Miami--coming out.
This all means that he did not live up to his potential. I'm not saying that he will not have some good years. but he isn't going to have the career people hoped for when we drafted him. He is suffering through a chronic injury and is trying to provide what he feels he owes us. how long he lasts no one really knows---but you can't dispute that he took years off his career.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Irony...maybe. As to what is going on now.... Winslow is not 100 percent, and most likely, never will be. How things can be made better... more surgery.... See what I mean by damaged goods....?
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I agree completely with your assessment. It is pretty obvious that the motorcycle accident will always be with him, and will probably limit his career.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
I agree completely with your assessment. It is pretty obvious that the motorcycle accident will always be with him, and will probably limit his career.
...which is why I'm still split down the middle where KW2 is concernd.
As a fan, I wannna believe he can make it all the way back- and revolutionize his position. As a realist, it's really, really hard to believe that I'll ever see the kind of production from him that his college performances promised.
As much as I blasted Butch for lots of his picks, I could never argue with this one... based on performance and potential. The "intangiles" became the balance-tipper where K2 was concerned... would his volatility and immaturity negate/diminish his pure football skills?
What we've seen so far justifies Tyler Derdens's point-of-view.
What he shows us from here on out will tell the story-
-about the man, his heart, and his desire... because he's most likely going to have to rely on these aspects to overcome the physical damage done by one afternoon's worth of foolishness.
____________________
I, for one, am glad that the jury's still out on Kellen. The fan in me wants to see him defy the odds- and re-wirte the definition of his position for generations to come.
The realist in me predicts that he'll just be a very good TE. It makes for great human drama, and that's half the reason I watch this team. Say what you will... the Browns ain't never boring.
It's up to Kellen Winslow II to play well enough to make me say, "That young man- number 80- deserves to shake hands with Ozzie Newsome in Canton as an equal... or better."
And, to be honest- NONE of us really knows until Kellen's Final Chapter is written.
Dawgonnitt... that's why we keep coming back, year after year, Sunday after Sunday.....
I don't know if my poor ol' heart take take it....
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All Pro
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You forgot nimrod. 
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Quote:
That is the enigma of K2. The guy is a gamer, who proved through immaturity to be a poor pick.
This kinda says it all doesn't it.. You know how many people will say we should draft this guy or that guy,,, knowing full well they have an emotional issue, maturity issue, legal issue or whatever..
Drafting Talent is important,, Drafting talent that has a high Character is even more so.
In the grand scheme of things, Immaturity in a person 23 years old should be somewhat expected.... well, to a degree anyway.
I don't think that Winslow was a bad pick. he had made some goofy statements, like he's a solja,,, but other than that, he's done nothing horrible. And he'd always given 100% on the field... So what made him a bad pick.
Now if you look back on his life,, the really really dumb thing that he did was buy and ride that bike... I can't really find anything else about him that is so much a character issue. Just the bike thing. And he hadn't done that prior to being picked..
NO NO,, I'm no Butch Davis fan, but choosing KW2 wasn't a poor pick.. No matter how you slice it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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NO NO,, I'm no Butch Davis fan, but choosing KW2 wasn't a poor pick.. No matter how you slice it.
Until you reflect on the fact that, had we KEPT our second round pick, we would have ended up with either KW2 or Roy Williams. Once you put that in perspective, it's basically a poor pick unless he becomes a perennial pro bowler.
as for his injuries, although he'll never recover 100% physically, the optimist in me would hope that all of the incredibly grueling rehab only helped to improve his work ethic and take his ego down a notch. otherwise it might have been him AND braylon last year spouting off to the media.
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Until you reflect on the fact that, had we KEPT our second round pick, we would have ended up with either KW2 or Roy Williams.
Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.... This could have happened or that could have happened.,...
None of that matters, KW2 was a good pick... What could have happened doesn't change that,,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.... This could have happened or that could have happened.,...
None of that matters, KW2 was a good pick... What could have happened doesn't change that,,,,,
Using that logic, I could tell you that Tim Couch was a good pick. Or Gerrard Warren. etc.
I think winslow WILL pan out to be a pro bowler and i realize i'm just playing devil's advocate here, but with 900+ yards after 3 seasons, how exactly is he defined as a good pick? because the football world generally agreed on draft day that he was a good pick?
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Quote:
Bottomline, he has not, and most likely will not, live up to the potential that he had coming out of Miami. That equal a poor pick. He was suposed to be a revolutionary, franchise TE. A threat downfield and a leader for years and years.
He put up 89 receptions and 875 yards as a tight end... The only reason he didn't have loads of TD's was because they blanketed him constantly in the red zone, sine when is that just decent? Because he got hurt doesn't make the pick poor, it makes it bad luck... The guy has the skills he just got hurt doing something stupid.
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Right now, he's had a decent year last year, and hopes to deliver the same for the next few years--but he is damaged--and struggled through last year. There is nothing to suggest that he will make any miraculous recovery. he said himself that he will probably never be back at the form he was at Miami--coming out.
Maybe not physically, but he has football smarts, and probably the best set of hands Cleveland has ever had, he's not going to run a 4.8, the dude still has speed, he just loses some power in his blocking... Like I said, he still has the best hands I've seen a Cleveland player have... Also, I disagree with the fact that he can't be where he was at Miami, because his last year at Miami he only put up around 500 yards, just because he was better physically doesn't mean he was better back then.
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This all means that he did not live up to his potential. I'm not saying that he will not have some good years. but he isn't going to have the career people hoped for when we drafted him. He is suffering through a chronic injury and is trying to provide what he feels he owes us. how long he lasts no one really knows---but you can't dispute that he took years off his career.
How has he not lived up to his potential, hes played one year!? If you want to say he had one decent year (that was actually a pro-bowl year on a team with national recognition) then you can't say he hasn't lived up to his potential, because in his first real year he was pretty much a pro-bowler.... I heard he might only last 3 more years, enjoy them while they last, because he's the best offensive player we've seen in a whole long time.
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So are you saying Winslow's career was only supposed to last 4 or 5 years.
Thats what I mean. He is damaged goods, who didn't even really se the field until his what, 4th season in the league. That is what I mean by not living up to his potential. He is playing with a leg that isn't what it used to be, and over three or four years all he has to show is one decent season where he caught dink after dunk pass that resulted in tremendously inflated reception numbers---and only three TD's. I like the guy---but I'm saying that his career is not ever going to be on par with the other pro-bowl TE's in the league. He may enjoy a few years of success, but as for his career--it is kind of disappointing.
JMO.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Using that logic, I could tell you that Tim Couch was a good pick. Or Gerrard Warren. etc.
What? How do you figure that,,,,,, 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I never said his freakin career was supposed to last 4 or 5 years... You are saying he was a poor pick, I am saying he wasn't... Hind sight is 20/20... He got into a motorcycle wreck, did the Browns know that was going to happen? They drafted him based on his talent, last year he proved he had talent... I'm tired of arguing this, I thought I was done with this last year but apparently not.
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Thats what I mean. He is damaged goods, who didn't even really se the field until his what, 4th season in the league.
He saw the field in his first year... he got hurt in the second game of his career, then missed that season. Then the motorcycle accident occured in May of the following year (that was the first year of RAC and Phill) . He missed the entire second year of his career and played every game in his third year..
At least TRY to get it right will ya
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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The shame of the whole matter is...no matter how good he turns out to be...the question WILL always be "How good COULD he have been?" I can see it now...K2 standing at the podium in Canton giving his speech, and all the media saying "Certainly one of the best TEs of all time, an amazing story of overcoming adversity to becoming one of the all time greats...but how much better would he have been 'IF'...?"
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The numbers are really irrelevant. The point still stands.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086 |
The point is irrelevant if the facts you use to prove them are incorrect..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458 |
Wow, a whole year of difference.  My point is still made whether he was in the league three years or four years. Doesn't make a bit of difference. My memory is just a bit bad. But the fact remains that Winslow missed a lot of time, suffers from chronic knee problems and probably will not reach the potential he had coming out.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086 |
From your lips to gods ear...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,812
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,812 |
Quote:
Winslow missed a lot of time, suffers from chronic knee problems and probably will not reach the potential he had coming out.
As much as the homers dismiss it,this a very accurate statement about the reality of the situation.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Winslow not there, yet
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