And at the end of the article, details exactly why there is now an impasse.
I used MSNBC to help the Fox-haters see their truth.
Trump decided to persecute the DACA/DAPA people instead of making a deal when he had the chance. Dems never supported Trump's Wall, they only wanted to leverage that to do some actual good for people.
The impasse has been created because Trump thinks this is a power move and that using people like disposable pawns in his politics is the way to win. Dems can't allow him to win now because he will do it every time he wants to get his way and not really negotiate... Hurting the American people for political gain is not acceptable.
I’ve got plenty, you just don’t want to hear the truth.
Not my fault you drank the koolaid. But just like trump, can’t take responsibility for anything.
How hilarious is it that here you are arguing over who owns what, despite the fact that trump is on TV explicitly stating he will proudly own all of it.
You don’t have an ounce of credibility on this. It’s your opinion versus what the president said on live TV.
Yea, guess which source I’m gonna go with. Certainly not yours.
Since they elected a president who will change his story four or five times, they can choose any of those stories that makes them "feel good" and ignore the rest of them. And they claim to believe in personal responsibility. Or at least they used to.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
And at the end of the article, details exactly why there is now an impasse.
I used MSNBC to help the Fox-haters see their truth.
Yes because Trump didn't take their deal. They weren't willing to do those things, they were willing to make a deal. There's a big difference.
Do you not see that you just made my point?
The reasons they give for not voting for the wall funding are BS. They don't care about the security of Americans and they don't care about the immigrants. It's all about getting a political feather in their cap.
They WERE willing to fund it...and at 4x what Trumps wants today...it was NOT immoral...it was NOT unjust...it was NOT ineffective...and its was NOT too expensive. But now it is? BS. Playing with lives for political points...it's disgusting.
And at the end of the article, details exactly why there is now an impasse.
I used MSNBC to help the Fox-haters see their truth.
Trump decided to persecute the DACA/DAPA people instead of making a deal when he had the chance. Dems never supported Trump's Wall, they only wanted to leverage that to do some actual good for people.
The impasse has been created because Trump thinks this is a power move and that using people like disposable pawns in his politics is the way to win. Dems can't allow him to win now because he will do it every time he wants to get his way and not really negotiate... Hurting the American people for political gain is not acceptable.
But you go ahead and have some more kool aid.
Obama is responsible for putting the DACA population in this predicament. Just like with Chuck & Nancy on the wall today, Obama used the DACA population for political points. He could have fixed it...he would have had to negotiate to get what he wanted...nah...he signed a memo instead.
I think Trump should have taken that deal...but it's not his responsibility to support making a law out of the previous President's memo. Obama should have headed that action...but that would have required some actual work.
The facts are that Chuck & Nancy are lying about why they won't support funding the wall. They were for it, until they were against it. Sounds familiar. And people are suffering because of their political game.
One might say since Mitch refuses to bring anything that's been passed to a vote in the senate, he is.
What's been passed that he won't advance? If he blocks legitimate legislation from a vote, it's his own BS. BTW, Dems were good with that tactic when Harry Reid actually had House legislation to (not) vote on. Real legislation...not TDS-developed hypotheticals.
To stay on point tho, Chuck & Nancy are using the immigrants and DACA folks for political points. They were FOR the wall funding as recently as...well...the LAST TIME it came up. But not now.
It's common sense...which is the biggest problem. Not one single excuse from them makes any sense. You don't need a news outlet to draw the picture.
So you think negotiating means one side gets what they want while the other side gets nothing? Is that what you mean?
No. I don't think much good comes out of that. I have an issue with the leading members of the Dem party giving complete BS excuses as to why they won't fund the wall when they would last year.
They were for negotiating DACA with wall funding. Some seem to think that one side should get exactly what they want while the other side gets nothing. That's the real problem here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
One might say since Mitch refuses to bring anything that's been passed to a vote in the senate, he is.
What's been passed that he won't advance? If he blocks legitimate legislation from a vote, it's his own BS. BTW, Dems were good with that tactic when Harry Reid actually had House legislation to (not) vote on. Real legislation...not TDS-developed hypotheticals.
To stay on point tho, Chuck & Nancy are using the immigrants and DACA folks for political points. They were FOR the wall funding as recently as...well...the LAST TIME it came up. But not now.
It's common sense...which is the biggest problem. Not one single excuse from them makes any sense. You don't need a news outlet to draw the picture.
They created the impasse.
Mitch McConnell blocks Senate Democrats' move to reopen government
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
They were for negotiating DACA with wall funding. Some seem to think that one side should get exactly what they want while the other side gets nothing. That's the real problem here.
No question. I'm not happy that Trump didn't take that deal...he could have gotten what he wanted AND un-done the injustice that Obama put on those people...in the end, DACA is on Obama's hands and not Trump.
As it were, neither side got a deal...but now the Dems won't even negotiate because they don't need the political capital of our safety and that of the immigrants.
The wall was fine and good if they could score points of off it...not at all if they cannot.
One might say since Mitch refuses to bring anything that's been passed to a vote in the senate, he is.
What's been passed that he won't advance? If he blocks legitimate legislation from a vote, it's his own BS. BTW, Dems were good with that tactic when Harry Reid actually had House legislation to (not) vote on. Real legislation...not TDS-developed hypotheticals.
To stay on point tho, Chuck & Nancy are using the immigrants and DACA folks for political points. They were FOR the wall funding as recently as...well...the LAST TIME it came up. But not now.
It's common sense...which is the biggest problem. Not one single excuse from them makes any sense. You don't need a news outlet to draw the picture.
They created the impasse.
Mitch McConnell blocks Senate Democrats' move to reopen government
Aaaaaaaand...there it is...the 3rd tactic of the liberal debater. Switch the field...talk about something other than the issue (wall)...that Chuck & Nancy supported just last year.
Agree to wall funding...for 1/4th of what you agreed to last year...and the government opens up. Simple.
and i answered directly. no one switched the field. you just don't know what you're talking about, whether its the big picture or the details.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Illegal immigration is at its lowest point in over 40 years. Now I'm for adding some to the wall in problem areas. To me that just makes sense. But why should the Dems offer him money for a wall with nothing in return? And how is it Obama's fault when there was a DACA program in place when he left office?
But since you entered this discussion can you try to address a few questions?
What is the plan for this wall? Where does Trump want to build this wall? Right now he is saying he wants 5.7 billion to build 215 miles of wall.
So why was it just last year he wanted 25 billion for a wall and now only 5.7 billion? Does that mean he will shut down the government every time a budget comes up just to get more and more money?
See, to me that's the real problem here. He isn't showing us any plan. I'm for adding to the wall, but Trump needs to actually lay out a plan and not have him and people like you just whine about "build a wall!" There's a little more to it than that.
Or is it your contention we just hand over the money with no plan in place? Without any type of explanation as to the final cost of this when all is said and done?
See, I actually believe IF he could string some coherent sentences together and lay out his vision and plan for all of this out to the American people, he may get the majority of Americans on his side. But as of now?
"I'm going to build a wall. It will be a great wall!"
That's just political posturing, not a plan.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Pit you and Swish need to just quit responding to Willie, he's stuck on trying to justify his vote for the traitor.
That's the very same problem our entire nation is suffering from right now. A refusal to have an open discussion about anything. Slinging names and labels in both directions. It is the opposite of encouraging discussion. If you can't see how that only widens the divide, I can't help you.
There are very few people on this board who refuse to discuss things. But once you start to put up walls by name calling and labeling those who don't agree with you, the discussion stops and defenses go up. That's not helpful in trying to at the very least understand each other.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
My wife told me a lot about the Berlin Wall from a German perspective. She said it was so divisive that the divide between west and east Germany is still very much alive today, even though the wall has been down for years.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Pit you and Swish need to just quit responding to Willie, he's stuck on trying to justify his vote for the traitor.
That's the very same problem our entire nation is suffering from right now. A refusal to have an open discussion about anything. Slinging names and labels in both directions. It is the opposite of encouraging discussion. If you can't see how that only widens the divide, I can't help you.
There are very few people on this board who refuse to discuss things. But once you start to put up walls by name calling and labeling those who don't agree with you, the discussion stops and defenses go up. That's not helpful in trying to at the very least understand each other.
I get that. But there must be give and take to reach middle ground. In the last few pages of back and forth with Willie there was ZERO of that.
I know I'm not a good example of it either but I'm just done giving up ground until I see some from the other side. This whole thing with Trump has become so obvious it's ridiculous, why should we give an inch on our position? Just because it's uncomfortable for us to stand our ground? I don't care if I get along with anyone who supports that traitor.
I don't believe there has to be a middle ground to understand the position with those that have a different point of view. By not name calling and having the discussion it serves to help each other "understand" the views of a different side.
See, I don't agree with your views about the wall either. My position lies somewhere in the middle. I think there are areas where a wall could be added to help border enforcement. At the same time I don't agree with Trump and his supporters who just scream. "Build a wall!" without it being a part of an overall immigration policy that includes DACA and a common sense asylum policy.
So I pretty much don't agree with anyone!
It's a circumstance that we moderates face on a daily basis.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I don't believe there has to be a middle ground to understand the position with those that have a different point of view. By not name calling and having the discussion it serves to help each other "understand" the views of a different side.
See, I don't agree with your views about the wall either. My position lies somewhere in the middle. I think there are areas where a wall could be added to help border enforcement. At the same time I don't agree with Trump and his supporters who just scream. "Build a wall!" without it being a part of an overall immigration policy that includes DACA and a common sense asylum policy.
So I pretty much don't agree with anyone!
It's a circumstance that we moderates face on a daily basis.
I had/have zero issue with the existing border fence or for the reasons it was put up. My issue with Trump's wall is the bigotry behind it. I will never agree to anything that supports that bigotry.
BUT I was willing to accept the Dems dealing with Trump, still am. But you can't reach a deal while he holds Americans hostage like a damn terrorist. Between this shut down and the pain it's caused, family separations, kiddie concentration camps, and all the blatant bigotry displayed by this administration there is no room for negotiation IMHO.
Let me ask you a question. You say you're okay with the current seven hundred miles of border fence. Let's face it, you can't see through a wall. You can see though a fence.
Now let's leave all of the political bickering out of it for a minute.
What is it you find so offensive about an additional 215 miles of border fence that you don't find offensive about the current 700 miles of border fence?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Let me ask you a question. You say you're okay with the current seven hundred miles of border fence. Let's face it, you can't see through a wall. You can see though a fence.
Now let's leave all of the political bickering out of it for a minute.
What is it you find so offensive about an additional 215 miles of border fence that you don't find offensive about the current 700 miles of border fence?
In a give and take negotiation, nothing. In a protect the border sensibly way, nothing. In a not going to pay federal workers, going to seperate families, going to put kids in concentration camps, going to deny access to desperate people trying to ask for legal entry under asylum laws, going to target only brown people and our southern border with our 'illegal immigration rhetoric' while ignoring facts on illegal immigration... Everything.
Meanwhile on other immigration like DACA where the majority is for a path to citizenship and not increased ICE deportations, bigotry fueled hate is also the driving force from the Trump admin. I can't stand this.
I have no issue with deporting criminals, defending against drug smugglers, or smart secure border strategies based in reality and fact. I oppose the white power kick many on the right get by just saying 'immigrant'...
So what do I find offensive? Not the concept of the 'fence' but the bigotry of Trump's 'Wall'! I hope that makes sense.
Ann Coulter Is "Not Going To Complain" Trump Shut Down The Government Over Immigration
The lady that changed trump's mind to not support the 1.6 bill that was passed.
this is who's running the country.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
It does make sense. Which is pretty much the reason I think "extending the fence" should be just one portion of a complete immigration policy and not a single issue on its own.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I don't feel it's her alone. Trump was ready to sign a deal and not shut down the government right up until the moment that pundits on the right began squawking. But it wasn't Coulter alone. It was her, Rush and Hannity. At least we know who's running our immigration policy.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
GC. The only real honest discussion is the democrats don't care about national security.Let everyone remember, the Democrats, Pelosi, and Shumer, are not willing to spend a fraction of 1 percent on border security.
I think, Trump is going to declare the Emergency, and use Military funds to build this, on his own, and bring the government shutdown to an end.
ON HIS Own, Forever showing that the democrats care more about shutting down the government, and making millions of workers work without pay, than to do the right thing and pay a fraction of a percent, (less than 1%), of the National Budget, on Border security, ... Security for You and Me, Because the Democrats only care about taking over peoples lives by Tyranny and forced compliance to their will, (They sound like the bad guys in the 40's to me, I honestly don't know why "anyone" votes for them, ever.
But Thank God! Trump is going to do the right thing and end this nonsense by declaring the emergency and build the wall on his own, I think this is the subject he will talk on in 90 minutes.
Haleluhah, Thank God, because the democrats would be in your wallets, if not in your house, controlling your thermostat in the winter, telling you not to use more than a pint of water to flush your toilet, if not making your car run on fairey dust, and putting multitudes out of work by shutting down Every Fossil fuel industry, there ever was, in the name of globalism,
They care more about the wills of people born in another hemisphere who want to destroy the idea of the USA as a Nation, and a SuperPower,
^ This is what the democrats build their lives on , (their political lives), if it's not enslaving a mass number of millions of americans on the government dole, through everything from welfare, food stamps, to government controlled healthcare, including womens' reproductive rights, Which, don't believe the lie, that they are on your side, because the only side they are on, is the one where they control you! Wake up America! The Democrats are bad!
Thank God, one of them isn't in (wherever they are not), at this very moment.
oh it certainly was in combination with hannity and limbaugh. thats the axis of evil right there.
but she's been going hard in the paint non-stop.
and whats worse with the axis of evil.....bro i don't think its just immigration policy. i believe its a whole host of issues that he takes their advice over his actual advisors.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
GC. The only real honest discussion is the democrats don't care about national security.Let everyone remember, the Democrats, Pelosi, and Shumer, are not willing to spend a fraction of 1 percent on border security.
the rest of the post is not worth addressing, because you started it off with a blatant lie. it is a straight up lie that the dems don't support border security. they literally offered 1.6 billion for the wall that was PASSED in the senate.
previously, they even offered up 25 bill for the wall in exchange for a pathway to citizenship for DACA and other issues. the president said no to that as well.
do the board a favor and stop lying.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Let me ask you a question. You say you're okay with the current seven hundred miles of border fence. Let's face it, you can't see through a wall. You can see though a fence.
Now let's leave all of the political bickering out of it for a minute.
What is it you find so offensive about an additional 215 miles of border fence that you don't find offensive about the current 700 miles of border fence?
In a give and take negotiation, nothing. In a protect the border sensibly way, nothing. In a not going to pay federal workers, going to seperate families, going to put kids in concentration camps, going to deny access to desperate people trying to ask for legal entry under asylum laws, going to target only brown people and our southern border with our 'illegal immigration rhetoric' while ignoring facts on illegal immigration... Everything.
Meanwhile on other immigration like DACA where the majority is for a path to citizenship and not increased ICE deportations, bigotry fueled hate is also the driving force from the Trump admin. I can't stand this.
I have no issue with deporting criminals, defending against drug smugglers, or smart secure border strategies based in reality and fact. I oppose the white power kick many on the right get by just saying 'immigrant'...
So what do I find offensive? Not the concept of the 'fence' but the bigotry of Trump's 'Wall'! I hope that makes sense.
I just read this post. So you don't realize the bigotry is on the other side? Ok. Now I understand.
So trumps “major” announcement was a complete dud.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
