DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage explains his moves

By STEVE DOERSCHUK
Repository sports writer

BEREA Randy Lerner chatted with the artist who painted the sprawling tailgate scene hanging in the Browns' main lobby.

Talk turned to how juiced - in a football way - tailgaters will be as the season gets rolling.

The keys are running back Jamal Lewis being his old self and getting respectable play at quarterback on offense and from the defensive line.

"I'm not the expert," the Browns' owner said, "but I would generally agree."

Typically in these conversations, Lerner says, "That's a better question for Phil or Romeo."

On Saturday, Head Coach Romeo Crennel was upstairs cleaning up final cut day and making a hard turn toward next Sunday's Pittsburgh game.

General Manager Phil Savage came downstairs to explain:

n

Why is Ken Dorsey the odd man out at quarterback?

Unless the Browns are orchestrating the mother of all smokescreens, Charlie Frye will start against the Steelers. Crennel will have an easier time concealing whether Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson will be No. 2.

"We decided to keep the three quarterbacks who can best help us win now," Savage said.

Dorsey has genius-level intelligence, but ...

"From a physical standpoint in two years, no one has said Ken Dorsey should be in the game," Savage said.

n

Why did cornerback Gary Baxter make the active 53-man roster, even though he might not be ready to return from double patellar tendon surgery?

"We feel like he'll be able to come all the way back," Savage said.

It doesn't matter whether Baxter comes back as a cornerback or a safety, Savage said.

"He's a football player," Savage said, clearly intending it as a high compliment.

n

Why will center LeCharles Bentley will remain on the physically unable to perform list, meaning he won't play until Oct. 28 at St. Louis, if at all?

Bentley is recovering from a mess that began when he blew out a patellar tendon.

"We feel like we need to give him more time," Savage said.

n

When might Quinn play?

"Is it two weeks, four weeks, eight weeks or the end of the year?" Savage said. "I can't answer that.

"(Quinn) has taken what we've given him in doses and done well with it. We're real pleased with him."

Frye is likely to keep the job all year if he plays well and the team wins. He could be replaced by Anderson early or Quinn after the Browns get out of an early meatgrinder sharpened by games against the Steelers, Bengals and Ravens this month.

"Charlie is going to get some time to play and do things," Savage said, "but I wouldn't say never.

"Derek showed last year that he could come off the bench and make some things happen. I think it really depends on how the game is going, how Charlie is throwing the ball and injuries play a factor."

As to the question of whether the quarterback position, Lewis and the defensive front three hold the key to the season, Savage's view didn't sound much different than Lerner's.

"We obviously have some age of the line," he said. "Jamal is a key. We need efficient play from the quarterback.

"Our offensive coaches feel that if the quarterback would play efficiently, and with Kellen Winslow, Braylon Edwards and Joe Jurevicius, Steve Heiden, Jamal Lewis, Lawrence Vickers and Charles Ali, with a solid offensive line, we have a good chance to be productive."

That's far from promising the playoffs.

On the other hand, Savage says roster improvements make winning "not a question of if, but when."

Reach Repository sports writer Steve Doerschuk at (330) 580-8347 or e-mail steve.doerschuk@cantonrep.com

BROWNS REPORT

On line

General Manager Phil Savage said improving the defensive line is "on the Rolodex" for 2008, but the team must play through shortcomings.

He said Defensive Coordinator Todd Grantham needed to "work the scheme to stay competitive" amid gaps in the 2005 and '06 rosters.

"I'm sure some of that will take place this year," he said.

Ali, Ali, Ali

Savage has built his career partly on finding good players who slipped through the cracks.

He identified enormous (6-2, 265) fullback Charles Ali as this summer's find.

Savage signed rookies Joshua Cribbs and Simon Fraser in 2005, Jereme Perry in 2006, and Ali this year. All are on roster.

Ali was recruited by Arkansas-Pine Bluff as a linebacker. Even in that off-the-tracks landscape, he wasn't a "name." The lead-blocking specialist ran the ball only 13 times in 2006.

Savage said, "Ali earned his way onto the team."

Running back Jamal Lewis campaigned to keep him.

Extra points

• Outside linebacker Willie McGinest is recovering from back surgery. Indications are McGinest may not attempt to hit the field until Oct. 7 at New England, where he won three Super Bowl rings.

• Savage doubts the Browns will pursue Keenan McCardell, 37, who was with the Browns in the 1990s.

STEVE DOERSCHUK

http://www.cantonrep.com

We need to cut McGinnest and bring back in one of those young guys like Barclay back here if he isn't on anyones team in October..

I agree. Love Willie as a Brown but not sure how he fits in or what he adds. Seems as if Wimbley and Peek are entrenched as starters and we had some decent young depth. Physically Willie hasn't been able to contribute much to any team in over a year. I see no indication of a change there but even if completely healthy he has just slowed down too much to have much impact on the field.

I guess there is something to be said for loyaty.

Quote:

---

We need to cut McGinnest and bring back in one of those young guys like Barclay back here if he isn't on anyones team in October

---

What makes you think that if they cut Willie, they would bring Barclay back in... they might bring another LB in instead...

Anyway, let's see how it shakes out after the PS is announced....

Daman, you have to remember Turk's man-crush on Barclay.

I liked Barclay, too, more than Harrison. But, I don't get paid millions and have a huge staff to help me make correct decisions, and I do believe Savage has made a super-majority of correct moves.

JMHO

Ahh yes, the man crush syndrome,, I had almost forgotten that,,, That's for the reminder

Quote:

---

When might Quinn play?

"Is it two weeks, four weeks, eight weeks or the end of the year?" Savage said. "I can't answer that.

---

Notice he didn't say next year. I see some hints that we'll see Quinn after the bye.

No problem , cut Vickers !

Quote:

---

I would rather have Frye as #2, but I bet Frye doesn't want that job

---

He won't like going to Atlanta then because he'll be a back up there.

I figured this would fit in here ....

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1188725402102050.xml&coll=2

Terry PlutoPlain Dealer Columnist
Early last week, the Browns told Brady Quinn that they have confidence in him -- despite the general manager and coach obviously leaning to Charlie Frye as opening day quarterback. "We let Brady know that we are behind him 100 percent," said Phil Savage. "We traded a first-round pick to get him. We have faith in him. We want him to become our quarterback for a long time."

Savage stressed the Browns didn't deal a second-rounder in 2007 and a first-rounder next season to Dallas for the rights to Quinn unless they were extremely serious about him being their long-term answer at quarterback. But the general manager believes throwing Quinn against the Pittsburgh Steelers next Sunday is just too much, too soon -- especially with Cincinnati, at Oakland, Baltimore, at New England to follow.

Quinn believes he's ready right now. Savage loves the quarterback's confidence, but why rush him into action? Savage explained, "A football franchise is an $800 million vehicle. You don't toss the keys to someone to drive it when they just showed up. You want them to practice on side streets. Then city streets. Then, the highway."

Savage was in Baltimore (1996-2004) when the Ravens never could develop a quarterback. He knows the Browns history since 1990: eight different opening day QBs in the last 14 years. Yes, eight opening day starters in 14 years. The last time there was a back-to-back starter was Kelly Holcomb (2002-2003). The countdown since is Jeff Garcia (2004), Trent Dilfer (2005) and Frye (2006).

Savage's biggest point is this: "We can't keep going back and forth. When we go to Brady, there can be no turning back. We can't ying/yang it. We can't have another Couch/Holcomb. We have to make sure that he is ready, because when we start him -- we have to stick with him."

Many fans remember that in 1999, the Browns started Ty Detmer. He lasted one game when the Browns were spanked, 43-0, by Pittsburgh. The next week, coach Chris Palmer surprised the front office by turning to Couch, a rookie. That season, Couch was sacked 56 times. Couch was so beat up that he was out of football by 2004 at the age of 26.

Quinn's backers mention there are obvious differences between Couch and the Notre Dame rookie. Couch started 24 games at Kentucky, Quinn 46 at Notre Dame. Couch was in a no-huddle college offense and seemed confused when first handed the Browns' playbook. Quinn played for a pro-style coach (Charlie Weis), and these Browns are a much better team than the 1999 expansion Browns.

But the Browns believe it's safer to start Quinn when some fans think it's "too late" this season than to start him to early. "At some point, we have to develop a quarterback here," said Savage. "We want to do this right."

TALKIN' BROWNS...

Joe Thomas has graded "average" to "above average" in each of his preseason games. That's crucial, because if the rookie left tackle flounders, it doesn't matter who is the quarterback -- he'll have no time to throw.

Savage is extremely thankful the Browns won that coin flip with Tampa to grab the No. 3 spot in the draft. Tampa was fourth. He's convinced Tampa would have picked Thomas. At No. 4, the Browns would have been considering running back Adrian Peterson or Quinn. Perhaps they would have picked Peterson -- and not ended up with Quinn or Thomas.

Thanks to adding Thomas, Kevin Shaffer has moved from left tackle (where he struggled last year) to right tackle. At right tackle, he gets blocking help from the tight end. Shaffer's blocking grades have improved this season with the position change.

The Browns are relieved Seth McKinney came back from that serious neck surgery that cost him all of 2006. He has been solid at guard, and they need him there with Ryan Tucker (steroids) out for four games and Eric Steinbach missing most of training back with a knee injury. They do hope to have Steinbach for the Steelers game.

Word of warning: The offensive line could be shaky early because all five projected starters have not played together in a single preseason game due to injuries. That's another reason the Browns will start Frye rather than Quinn. Pittsburgh's blitzes will bring a lot of pressure on the quarterback, and Frye's mobility and experience should help him deal with it.

Kellen Winslow Jr. continues to have some problems blocking, probably due to his knee recovering from surgery. You need power from your legs and hips to block. The Browns will call it a two tight-end set with Steve Heiden and Winslow, but Winslow will be used more as a wide receiver. That makes sense since his hands are his greatest asset. Blocking has never been his favorite part of the game. Winslow was benched at the start of a recent preseason game for his general lack of attention to details -- it was more than one instance where he was late getting on the field for a play. The Browns want to get his attention to concentrate more on every facet of the offense.

Quote:

---

I think they are setting Frye up for a trade, not that I like the idea, but why else keep DA, other then to keep DA as the #2 after Quinn is handed the job.

---

Well, instead of looking for reasons, maybe we could just take Savages word for it this time.. He said that nobody ever said they have to get Dorsey in a game... That kinda says that from a playing standpoint, they don't think Dorsey has it. Hard to argue that I suppose..

So maybe they just kept the best 3 QB's on the team.... Ya know, now that I think about it, it could be just that simple

I think you're right, but at the same time, Savage mentioned in his PC a couple of times that there was a possibility of bringing Dorsey back, which gave me the indication either Frye or Anderson might not be around the whole season. So now I don't really know what to think.

Quote:

---

Notice he didn't say next year. I see some hints that we'll see Quinn after the bye.

---

I'm going to say something that is going to make most people here laugh.. but you heard it here first..
Not to break anyones heart but WHEN Frye wins and gets us to the playoffs you may never see Quinn. even though most will still say trade Frye and start Quinn even after Frye gets us to the playoffs.. Frye to the playoffs
GUARANTEE

The Dang thing was acting up with I tried listening to Savages presser,,, kept stopping and starting....

Did he say that Dorsey could be back as a player or as a coach?

Quote:

---

Frye to the playoffs
GUARANTEE

---

Well .... as a backup maybe. lol

I would love to see Frye become everything he hasn't been yet ........ and have a situation where we have 2 really good QBs. (and trade bait) I just don't expect it to happen.

Quote:

---

Did he say that Dorsey could be back as a player or as a coach?

---

Dont let other posters who are reading to much into things mislead you.
Savage simply stated that if there became a need he would not rule out bringing Dorsey back. It was an answer given to a specific question by a reporter. Could not hear the exact quetion though.

Quote:

---

Quinn..but he will be the starter of the 08 season without a doubt.

---

I don't see that happening.
Why would you bench a QB that gets you to the playoffs. I know everyone thinks I am crazy for saying Frye will get us to the playoffs but benching a QB that gets you to the playoffs for one that will not have played a single down in a real game wouldn't be crazy it would be stupid.

It would be nice if Ali developed into a great lead blocking FB. I like what we have gotten out of UDFAs the past few years in Bodden, Cribbs, and Fraser.

I didn't read everything,, but take the names out of the mix for a second...


A team goes out and gets a QB in the third round... sometime during that first year, he steps in as starter... He's ok,, shows some promise,, but nothing exciting..

In his second year, he's the man.. he's the one now at the helm of the ship..

Again, not overwhelming,,, OK but not great. But there is some reason for hope in that he did get sacked a ton and lots of balls were dropped...so it's not like the kid is horrible, but he's not lighing it up either.

Suddenly, in the draft, a TEAM gives up a second rounder this year and a first next year to move up into the 1st round again and they take a kid that is kind of a fan favorite....

The new kid holds out and doesn't get to camp until he's missed 11 days of practice,, the 3rd rounder for a few years back shows some skills,, so at the conclusion of the preseason, he's named the starter for the first game of the season..

Now we get into guess work,,

That 3rd rounder clicks,,,, the team takes off,,,,, at the end of the year, they are at 10-6,, the best record the team has had in close to 12 years..

The team gets into the playoffs, but doesn't go far... in fact, they get knocked off in the first round....

Now the 1st rounder that the Team picked up sat on the bench all season,,,, didn't complain.

Do you make him your automatic starter the following year?

AUTOMATIC,,,, Probably not. Now, if there is competition for the job in camp,,, and the 1st rounder wins,,,that's one thing.. But you don't toss out a guy who helped the team win 10 games and helped get them into the playoffs without a whole lotta thought...

Again, look at the circumstances,,,, forget the names of the players,,, Just look at the circumstances...


After you are done looking at it,,,, change the 3rd pick to a high 2nd round pick, then change the circumstances of how you acquired the 1st rounder and then think San Diego....

Nothing is as easy as just saying what you would do... Too many things may influence the outcome

To me I go into camp with the thought that you are going to have a competition... but you also look to see if you can pull off a pretty nice trade...

Quote:

---

To me I go into camp with the thought that you are going to have a competition... but you also look to see if you can pull off a pretty nice trade...

---

Maybe it's just me, but I think NFL GMs go into every camp with the thought of making a trade that helps thier club,,, nothing new there,,

But go back and reread my post and tell me if there is any chance you give the 1st round QB the job out of hand?

Quote:

---

If Frye can take us to the playoffs with this team (which I doubt) then Quinn should be able to win in the playoffs.

---

And you came up with this how.

No one on here can make any statement on how Quinn will do in a game until he plays a real game

Quote:

---

The team gets into the playoffs, but doesn't go far... in fact, they get knocked off in the first round....

Now the 1st rounder that the Team picked up sat on the bench all season,,,, didn't complain.

Do you make him your automatic starter the following year?

AUTOMATIC,,,, Probably not. Now, if there is competition for the job in camp,,, and the 1st rounder wins,,,that's one thing.. But you don't toss out a guy who helped the team win 10 games and helped get them into the playoffs without a whole lotta thought...

Again, look at the circumstances,,,, forget the names of the players,,, Just look at the circumstances...

---

this is what i've been trying to say.
if Frye gets us to the playoffs how do you automatic make Quinn the starter

I don't care how much money Quinn is making
if Frye gets us to the playoffs trade Quinn someone will want him

Drew Brees took the Chargers to the playoffs, while Phillip Rivers sat .........

The Chargers decided to play Rivers and allowed Brees to move on.

It's the NFL. It happens.

His shoulder injury did make the decision a little easier on the Chargers though. Although I think it would take more than a 1 and out in the playoffs for Frye to hold off Quinn. Maybe AFC champs would be enough. SB definitely would.

Quote:

---

Drew Brees took the Chargers to the playoffs, while Phillip Rivers sat .........

The Chargers decided to play Rivers and allowed Brees to move on.

It's the NFL. It happens

---

Absolutly Ytown, No question. If that's what they want to do, then so be it. But What I'm asking is this,,

If you have a guy, who did a great job, took you to the playoffs... DO YOU KICK HIM TO THE CURB AUTOMATICALLYin favor of the guy that was a 1st rounder?

Maybe the answer is NO,, but with two guys that aren't gonna be happy unless they start, the best move may be to trade one of them,,,,, But which one? The one that's a 1st round pick that hasn't played yet or the 3rd pick that just led the team to the playoffs.....

Again, forget names,,, Names don't matter....

To me, it's pretty simple. Frye is the starter. It's his job to lose or Quinn's to win. If/when Quinn makes it clear he's the better player, the coaching staff will see that and make the change. There's no reason to try to make a decision now before the season has even started.

Week 8, week 15, or week 1 next year are my 3 guesses to when we see Quinn starting, barring injury.

I know that's what you are saying Mox.. The problem is, if you attach names to it, somehow, people don't think rationally. Frye or Quinn,,, Quinn or Frye,,

To take all the personal stuff out of it, I thought 1st rounder Vs. 3rd Rounder was good enough.


And since it's all guess work and Crystal Ball reading,,, Names really Don't mean a lot...

Brees moved on because he had just come off of surgery the Chargers were unsure if he was going to be the same QB

different situation

Absolutely, Past his prime...costing us a roster spot...cut'em then get him back later as a LB coach. His value is between his ears, not on the field.

It is deja vu all over again.

The only thing that is different is the fact that Brees was a second round selection and Frye was a third.

I wonder is Brady and Condon are rethinking that hold out about now.

Hopefully the Browns have a good season, and Frye has trade value. All San Diego got for Brees was a third round comp pick.

No Ken do: Dorsey out as backup
Anderson stays despite losing battle with Frye Sunday, September 02, 2007Tony GrossiPlain Dealer Reporter
In what probably was the most hotly debated issue in paring their final roster to 53 players, the Browns chose to keep Derek Anderson as a backup quarterback over Ken Dorsey.

They also saved a roster spot for cornerback Gary Baxter, keeping alive his historic comeback from double patella tendon surgery.

Other notable nuggets from the roster cuts, which were announced solely by General Manager Phil Savage:

Jerome Harrison staved off the challenge of Chris Barclay for the No. 3 halfback job.

Undrafted free-agent Charles Ali earned a spot at backup fullback.

Three rookie draft picks were cut, along with four players from previous Savage drafts.

For now, the Browns will head into the 2007 season Sept. 9 against Pittsburgh with 44 players who were not on the roster inherited by Savage and coach Romeo Crennel in January 2005.

“It’s been a journey to get here,” Savage said. “We’ve invested 31 months in the roster.

This ’07 season, from my perspective, is all about protecting what we’ve done the last 31 months. . . . We’ve got good players and good coaches. I truly believe this team is going to win.

There’s no question ‘if.’ It’s ‘when’ we’re going to win.”

Minor roster tweaks could occur during the first week. Released 2007 draft picks — defensive linemen Melila Purcell and Chase Pittman, and receiver Syndric Steptoe — could be signed to the team’s maximum eightplayer practice squad.

And Savage indicated that Dorsey, who served as unofficial mentor to rookie Brady Quinn because of his knowledge of coordinator Rob Chudzinski’s offense, could return at some point.

Savage said the decision on the quarterbacks came down to “the three that give us the best chance to win right now.”

He praised Dorsey’s intangibles, such as his football intellect, but concluded, “We’ve had Ken here two years under two offensive staffs . . . [and] . . . to this point, from a physical standpoint, no one has said, ‘Hey, we need to get Ken Dorsey in there to win a game.’ ”

Savage conceded disappointment that Anderson “had a handle on the [starting] job” but couldn’t seize it from Charlie Frye.

“He hasn’t been as consistent as what we’ve hoped for,” Savage said. “But there is a level of upside that we’re intrigued by.”

The Browns released no depth chart on Sunday, but comments made by Savage indicated the quarterbacks would be listed Frye first, Anderson second and Quinn third. At least through the early portion of the season.

“We have two tracks going,” Savage said. “One track included Charlie and Derek, the other track included the development of Brady Quinn. Those two tracks haven’t merged yet. We’ll see if it’s two weeks, four weeks, eight weeks, or the end of the year.

“When our schedule comes out and you see three of the top five defenses in the league . . . I think we’re more comfortable putting somebody in who’s seen that before.”

Among the 19 players waived on Sunday was receiver Steve Sanders, a Cleveland native who attended East High School and Bowling Green.

Completing the moves, linebacker and special teams core player Mason Unck was put on season-ending injured reserve and right tackle Ryan Tucker officially was transferred to the reserve- suspended list. Tucker, who violated the league’s banned- substances policy, is eligible to be activated after the fourth game.

The season will start with the comebacks of center LeCharles Bentley and Baxter still alive. Bentley, who never rejoined the team in practice, is on the physically unable to perform (PUP) list, which gives the team six to nine weeks to determine his roster fate.

That option for Baxter was removed when the team activated him two days into training camp.

Savage said that three different experts cleared Baxter to practice — team physician Dr. Tony Miniaci, noted orthopedist Dr. James Andrews and former Browns physician Dr. John Bergfeld.