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We have great reasons to have plenty of optimism, but it's much too early for more than that. How many of the 3 B's will be playing for Pittsburgh next year? How is Baltimore going to spend that extra cap money they'll have?

I'm not trying to pee in anyone's Cheerios, but it's a little early to get too carried away.

Honestly, I'm not too concerned with the other teams within the division. We obviously can beat all 3 regardless of what upgrades they make, just need to take care of business.

I think this is the best way for a team to approach their division. Worry about yourselves, execution, etc, and the wins in the division will come.

Baker and Freddy have started that mindset.

I'm in the mind that until you beat Pittsburgh, nothing else matters.

No offense, Hot. I think you are one of our better posters, but I agree w/Dep on this one. I'm hopeful we will be better, but we were 1-6-1 against teams w/a winning record last year and the win and tie came BEFORE the coaching changes. We benefited from an easy schedule down the stretch.

I'm hopeful. I am more encouraged than at any other time except perhaps right before the 2008 season [and we know how that turned out,] but I think it would be wise to take a wait-and-see approach.

Believe me, the sharks that still pine for Sashi will rip this team to shreds if they don't meet the fan's lofty expectations.

And then in the next thread over, you say ...

This.

We went from not being able anybody to being able to beat the bad teams, which is definitely a step in the right direction. Now we need to take the next step, beating some good teams. Once we do that, then we will be one of them.

EO has highlighted several indicators that we are better. We don't know how much better. We need to temper our expectations but certainly it is not out of the realm of possibility that we continue with a rapid ascent to the top of the division but I wouldn't bet on it...

We have not proven we can stop the run.

We still can't beat Pittsburgh. It is not just talent and x's and 0's with them...it is psychological as well. They have literally owned us. The next step to me is splitting with them at least and having that win be sound not a result of multiple turnovers or ridiculously bad/good luck.

We don't need to temper anything. We just don't need to get mad if it doesn't go as well as hoped.

After all, that is what fans do. Worst to first...why not?

I think some are still undercutting the importance of having a QB and HC. We haven't had either in a long time. While we may not be sure what we have in Kitchens, we do know we have one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Anything is possible.

Then we'd just take off running when the cops tried to stop us for being drunk and we'd get tackled.

And a real GM who brings in talent. Let's not forget talent. When you field a team that Vince Lombardi couldn't win with, you need some talent.

Speak for yourself, I can outrun'em!

The problem is that first step, when you're drunk it feels like it's forward, but it's usually sideways.

That's often me, even stone cold sober.

One just has to keep in mind that it's not about straight line speed.

I agree. I'm not tempering anything.

I will set my expectations very high, almost unreasonably high, then I can adjust once the season starts if I need to.

That's a logical conclusion to come to. But we all know that fandom and logic aren't two terms most people can string together.

If I went through the last 20 years with "reasonable" or "tempered" expectations, I would have given up on this whole team a long time ago. It's unreasonable expectations that have kept me coming back.

Having them is one thing. Imploding and playing the blame game when they aren't met is another.

Outstanding... . This post should be required reading...

I’ve never had unreasonable expectations ... i quit going to games after year 3 of our return ... wasn’t wasting my money on the POC products we’ve been putting out since then ... last year was the first time I wanted to return and go to a game ... didn’t work out for me ... i’ll get to at least one next year and probably two ...

Just cause most of u let your emotions and/or lack of football knowledge run amuck that doesnt mean we all do ...

Vers, Pit and myself have been tempering expectations on these boards for over a decade now ... and we were proven right every damm year til last year when we split and i was optimistic as hell ... turns out i was right to be optimistic but couldn’t have missed on the reasons by more ... *L* ...

DC don’t speak for me ... maybe he speaks for u but I didnt leave because i love the browns not because i thought we were going to be better than we were cause of unrealistic expectations ... i stuck around for TODAY ... NOW ... WHERE WERE HEADED ... thats why i kept coming back and spending money on the nfl ticket to make sure i could watch every game even though I KNEW WE’D SUCK ALMOST EVERY YEAR ....

But please don’t lump me in with the folks that can’t control there emotions or don’t know enough about football to set realistic expectations ...

Thank God we've been blessed with your knowledge and wisdom to set us emotional know-nothings straight.

I see no reason to temper expectations ... none ... and here’s why RIGHT NOW we should be the favorites to win the division and unless we $crew the pooch theres no reason that should change through FA or the draft ... and u have to understand .. I’m looking for reasons to temper my own expectations ...

1st I’ll adress a few of the concerns witch are 100% legite IMO ...

- we beat teams on a major downward spiral and got trounced by the good teams we played after the coaching change ... thats true and a legite concern IMO ...

When we fired H & H i re-set my expectations to simply wanting to see some improvement as that could have went sideways real quick ... what we saw was MAJOR IMPROVEMENT throughout the last 1/2 of the year ... yes we beat some bad teams ... here’s what I’m hanging my hat on here ...

- we lost to the faiders and bucs in the 1st half of the year ... these teams were actually worse than the teams we beat in the 2nd half of the year other than the bungles ... the panthers, falcons and broncos were bad when we played them ... but IMO not as bad as the faiders and bucs ... so we turned those L’s into W’s ...

- we got trounced by the chiefs the week after the firing ... we saw no improvement from the previous weeks trouncing by the Stilers ... thing is it was this teams 1st week together ...

Then we beat the falcons and bungles and in game 4 we got our asses whooped by the texans ... that was game game 4 of the Freddie era ... we got owned on both sides of the ball in the 1st half ... at halftime i said OK lets look for adjustments and improvement from the 1st half ... the O improved immensely in the 2nd half .. the first half we looked lost in the 2nd half we moved it MUCH MUCH BETTER ...

Then we finished the year beating the panthers, trouncing the bungles and beating an injury depleted broncos team (it was in mile high ... not an easy place to win EVER .. ) and then came the big one that shows the difference and improvement in this team ...

We beat the Rats under H & H 12 - 9 ... it was a defensive struggle and we couldnt move the ball for diddly ... the D held a PUTRID O in check ... we lost under Freddie ... but it was an entirely different game ... we moved the ball on them and our O played very well ... WAY BETTER THAN IN the 1st meeting .. the D stunk and couldnt control the wishbone in the 1st half and did much better in the 2nd half ..

THE IMPROVEMENT from week 5 or so when we beat them to that last game on O was NIGHT AND DAY .... it was two entirely different offensive performances and i don’t believe it was a coincidence that it was week 8 together for the O with Freddie calling plays and Bake developing and improving every week ... and that was with Bake throwing 3 picks ...

So yes we didn’t beat any good teams and we were actually owned by the two we played under Freddie ... but there was definitely a HUGE IMPROVEMENT on O and in ATTITUDE ... the D actually improved also but it was hard to tell playing the chefs and texans and getting owned by there O’s ... its not like we were the only D to struggle against those two O’s ..

And for me .. the D is the question on next year’s team ... i have ZERO DOUBT ABOUT THE O as long as we re-sign Higgins, Perriman and Robinson ... the O is only going to improve for the following reasons ..

- Bake in year two ... hes not gonna be a rookie and has the entire off season to STUDY and LEARN and DIGEST what happenend last year ..

- Bake will have plenty of time to develop a chemistry with the recievers ...

- the entire O will be playing in a very similiar O that Freddie ran last year ... he’s still calling the plays so theres no reason to think he’s going to make changes as he got the players input last year and tailored his O to what they did well ... GENIUS right .. its actually COMMON SENSE IMO but theres a lack of common sense all over our entire society and seems to be prevelant in the NFL coaching ranks ..

- Bake will get all the 1st team reps through OTA’s, mini camps and training camp ...

U add all the above up ... and HOLY COW BATMAN our O has a shot to be really really good ...

IMPROVEMENT is BAKED in to the O ... literally .. ...

And almost the best part ... after we fired H & H the TEAM CAME TOGETHER led by Bake ... i said it a few times during the year .. HEE HEE turned to WOOF WOOF ...

We got ourselves a LEADER OF MEN who has one goal and thats TO WIN ... dude is a LEADER ... one HELL OF A LEADER ...

Then u add to that KIng John and the FO ... i read a quote 3 or 4 weeks ago from one of the pundits that said the league is really impressed with HOW HARD OUR FO WORKS ... man .. was that music to my ears ...

King John has assembled a TEAM ... TEAM TEAM TEAM ... we have the FO, coaches and players all ROWING IN THE SAME DIRECTION .... Vers ... we been begging for that for years ... and now we HAVE IT ....

The coaching staff is an unknown ... but here’s the thing ... again .. this is DIFFERENT ... GOOD DIFFERENT ... and we have NO CLUE how good this staff will be .. here’s why I’m OPTIMISTIC ...

It starts with Fred .... he was never an OC and he EXCELLED AT IT ... it doesn’t mean he will be a succesful HC ... BUT THE WAY HE DID IT was just as impressive as what he did ... he got EVERYONE INVOLVED ... he made it a TOTAL TEAM EFFORT and when u do that ... it makes people want to do a great job and go the extra mile ...

Vers ... you an ex coach ... as u well know .. ATMOSPHERE IS HUGE ... Freddie seems to create an environment that coaches and players can succeed in .. am i over rating this Vers? It would seem to me to be human nature but I wouldn’t know ..

IMO as long as Freddie is Freddie we’ll be fine .. he STRESSED in his hires that working together and getting everyone involved is what he DEMANDS ... if u can’t agree to that theres no sense talking anymore ... it doesn’t guarantee success but it sure as heck sounds like a great environment that breeds success ...

Add to that if we started with GW and Freddie last season would we have won the division? ... i think so ... crap .. if we didn’t cut Kendricks we may have won the division .... and were GOING TO IMPROVE ... were YOUNG and the pups will get better ... who else in our division can say that? ...

I get tempering expectations ... i understand it .. I just see NO REASON FOR IT at this point .. I used to look for reasons to be optimistic and feel good about this team ... I COULD NEVER FIND THEM ... Now I an looking for reasons to temper my optimism BUT I JUST CAN’T FIND THEM! ...

We have TALENT on this roster and we have a FO working to get the coaches the types of players they want and we have coaches that will work with the players ... we have a TEAM for a change and its a TEAM with TALENT!!!

They just need to learn and grow and get some help on the D side of the ball ...

This is DIFFERENT ... GOOD DIFFERENT ...

Ouch that hurt ... ...

Insecurity is an ugly thing ... once again ... FACTS DON’T HAVE FEELINGS ...

I’m WRONG all the time and freely admit it ... hell, while u were mocking me i was admitting i was wrong in the post i was typing ... *L* ...

But as long as u feel better about yourself .. more power to ya dawg ...

Lol. You say that most people here post emotionally due to their lack of football knowledge, then act like your the victim being mocked. That's rich.

Do you ever make a football post? Good God, man! I bet 98 percent of your posts are about criticizing others. Take your crap to another forum.

Are you a ref? Anyhoo, I'm not the one who started with the insults.

Whatever. Most people get personal at times, but man, that's all you do.

Try talking some football just once in awhile and stop w/your middle school girl attacks.

I see what you are doing and it's cool.

I am going to preface this once again by saying I am more hopeful about this upcoming season than any other season pre-dating back to 2008.

I get all the talk. It makes some sense. But I'm sorry bro, I have to see it on the field before I jump all in. That isn't being "negative." It's being realistic. I'm NOT saying we will be bad again. Not at all. But, I haven't seen enough to think we'll be good. I am cautiously optimistic.

A big part of my position on this topic on this particular board is that this junk has happened so many times. Hell, I was questioning Hue when he was hired and was shouted down by the same folks who now despise him. You feeling me, bro?

You go ahead and believe that there is no doubt we'll be good. You may very well be right. But bro, I'm going to take a wait-and-see approach and if things don't go as planned, I will once again be forced to defend a coaching staff that I'm not as high on as the majority of posters are.

I responded to an insult, nothing more nothing less. I don't post much here at all, usually just to joke around or when people get asinine and insult like you're doing now. However, I did make a football post today about how I thought Hue was just as big an incompetent buffoon as Sashi was.

You're awesome.

As Is mine.

First, I'll reply to Vers...

I'm closer to your line of thinking. I'm a results/data driven person. I get why Diam is excited, but I gotta see us beat a good team playing good football before I really go nuts.

But to Diam's point, I'm digging this team. The Houston game and second Baltimore game are great examples of games that we lost (and were even getting whupped on at times), but there was still something to hang our hat on. I'm not talking about silver linings, but I'm talking about our offense going back out there in the second half and actually looking like they were clawing their way back into the game. The Baltimore game was close, and dare I say... a blown call or two from being a different result. We have the key pieces in place, and they seem like they're for real (Mayfield, Garrett, Ward).

Diam,
The only thing that would be the bucket of cold water could be our FA period. If we lose Robinson, then we're back to square 1 at RT. If we lose Perriman, then our WR corps looks a lot weaker. We need to build our talent level, and part of that is keeping our hands on people that earned it. It's tricky, though. We gotta keep Robinson here, but I'm not comfortable handing him a huge payday. The LT market might dictate that, though. Same (maybe less so) for Perriman.

I was raised on the Browns, Sipe and Kosar Era, and they ARE my team.

Maybe moving so far away that I am out of the daily news blasts, especially off-season, but in the end I see it as a game, as entertainment.

I am not frustrated or upset when they lose, I just go about my day. I do get a bit excited when they win a nail-biter. But all in all it is just something to entertain me for 3 hrs.

It's definitely more fun when they are winning though, more so when those wins come against AFCN opponents.

Vers, I think that you and I agree that the 1st step to a winning record is beating the teams you should, and then stealing 3 or 4 games you "shouldn't". I do also agree with you that we need to beat the Steelers, and hold a winning record in the division, in order to have "arrived".

I think that to get to that point, you have to identify the things you do best, and improve, and build on them as the season goes by. I do think that Freddie managed to do this far more successfully than 2 pretty strong offensive minds did before him. Haley was a Super Bowl level coordinator, yet he missed this simple part of the equation. He tried to force the pegs into existing holes, rather than digging holes the pegs would comfortably fit into, as Freddie did. I have to wonder if Baker would have developed as he did had Freddie not become the offensive coordinator. I am excited to think about starting the season with Freddie as head coach, and an experienced Baker Mayfield, Nick Chubb, Antonio Callaway, and with the rest of the offense returning in the same offense in which they certainly found success. We also get extra off-season camps because Freddie is a new head coach.

As far as last season .... yes we had an easier schedule in the 2nd half, but that's where successful teams make their hay. There were 2 losses to inferior teams in the 1st half .... the Raiders and the Bucs, that really hurt our potential for a playoff season. I don't think that anyone can claim that we were better than, and should have beaten the Chiefs, Chargers, or Ravens. (though we did come close against the Ravens)

I think my biggest concern for next season is injuries. I think that we'll have a strong season next year, if we stay healthy. I don't think that anyone is really looking forward to playing us next season.