DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage: Browns in position to win

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Monday, September 03, 2007Mary Kay CabotPlain Dealer Reporter
Browns General Manager Phil Savage returned from the preseason finale in Chicago feeling like his roster stacks up with that of the Bears, who went to the Super Bowl last season and sent six players to the Pro Bowl.

"You can go down the list and there are some comparisons on both sides of the coin," Savage said. "They were a Super Bowl team and we're perceived to be at the bottom of the barrel in the NFL, but I'm not sure there's that much difference. The league is very competitive because of all sorts of things like injuries and confidence."

The Bears finished 13-3 last season and lost to Indianapolis, 29-17, in the Super Bowl. They also sent line backers Lance Briggs and Brian Ur lacher, defen sive tackle Tommie Harris, cornerback Nathan Vasher, center Olin Kreutz and safety Mike Brown to the Pro Bowl.

Likewise, Savage returned from the Denver game the week before feeling like his lineup is on par with that of the Broncos, who went 13-3 in 2005 and lost the AFC Championship Game to Pittsburgh.

That Broncos team sent five players to the Pro Bowl. Last season, they finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs.

"When we played Denver, in my mind, the only difference was that they've had a winning tradition for a long time," Savage said. "They know they're going to win. The Browns are coming at it from a different perspective. We're coming from inside of a hole and we're trying to get out.

"But from a talent standpoint, man to man, we're competitive. We played three playoff teams in preseason and Detroit was the one that wore us out. In the NFL, the talent is relative and competitive across the league. We're at a point where we're in the mix."

For the first time since he took over after the 2004 season, Savage has a team he likes from top to bottom.

"We have a solid core group of 35 players," Savage said. "We have a legitimate NFL roster. It gives us a chance to compete and potentially win a lot of games, not only this year but next year and the year after. I feel good about where we are - about the final 53 [players]."

Savage said he and coach Romeo Crennel identified seven impact positions when they took over: quarterback, running back, left tackle, big-play wideout, defensive lineman, pass rusher and corner.

"Five of those seven are filled with players that should be here for a while because they are young, talented prospects and that's a good sign," said Savage, referring to Brady Quinn, Joe Thomas, Braylon Edwards, Kamerion Wimbley and Eric Wright.

Savage landed the job here largely because of his ability to help Ravens General Manager Ozzie Newsome select Pro Bowl players. From 1996 to 2004, they selected 10 Pro Bowlers, including Jonathan Ogden, Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, Ed Reed and Todd Heap.

The Browns have endured a five-year drought of Pro Bowlers - and have had only one since the team returned in 1999 when Jamir Miller made it following the 2001 season.

In this week's Sports Illustrated's NFL preview, Peter King ranked the top 500 NFL players and only two Browns made the top 150: Wimbley at 81 and Eric Steinbach at 139. Kellen Winslow Jr. came in at 189 and Edwards 318.

But Savage has added so many impact players since he arrived that he's certain it will translate to victories and Pro Bowls soon. Those difference-makers include Edwards, Wimbley, Wright, Steinbach, Thomas, Quinn, Joshua Cribbs, Jamal Lewis and D'Qwell Jackson. He also inherited a few premier players, of whom the core group is made up of Winslow, Sean Jones, Leigh Bodden and Andra Davis.

"We've invested 31 months into the roster - and the entire organization - and this 2007 season is all about protecting what we've done for the last 31 months," Savage said. "That's my job as the GM, to protect that investment. Now it's time to let it grow and develop."

He said the two areas of concern are still the aging defensive line and a long-term answer at running back. Although Lewis has looked fabulous this preseason, he turned 28 last week and is signed for only a year.

"The defensive line and the running back, we'll have to see how it turns out," Savage said. "I'm real happy with what we've seen from Jamal thus far. I think we've got enough on the defensive line with Shaun Smith and Robaire Smith coming onto the scene and the emergence of Simon Fraser and the depth with Ethan Kelley, that in a 3-4 defense - if we can stop the run, which has been a question here for eight years - if we can get off the field into our nickel or dime coverage, then our defense will be pretty good."

Despite experts such as SI's Paul Zimmerman predicting the Browns will finish 5-11, Savage thinks success is on the horizon.

"I believe we'll take a step forward this year," he said. "I really do. I just truly believe that this team is going to win. There's no question in my mind of if we are going to win. It's when we are going to win."

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

mcabot@plaind.com, 216-999-4670

I agree with Savage.

We have the talent to win 10-11 games. That doesn't mean we will at this point. Right now we have to learn to win.

The key to any season is to not have more than one two game losing streak, or any greater than that, and learn how to turn it up once you get one win so you can start a winning streak. One win isn't a streak...it is just a win.

Good teams have a way of stringing together 2-3-4 wins in a row before suffering a setback, and then do it again.

To be a good season we have to win at least 3 in a row at some point. If we do that, we will be in position next year to make a serious run.

We do have better talent than at anytime since 99.. I don't question that.

But having the talent and doing something with it are two different things...

We'll see this year if RAC and his OC and DC are the guys that can teach these kids to win.

I think they are, but you just never know until they actually do it.

i think it's a bit of an overstatement to say that we've filled 5/7 key positions that they've identified...

JT, Quinn, and Wright have all showed promise, but it's 1 preseason, for crying out loud...hard to say those are lock-down solutions at this point...

Braylon needs to up his game to be a top15 WR...

the only 1 we really have evidence that Phil has put in place is Wimbley...

all that said, i'm not in disagreement...in fact, i always find it funny how NFL experts talk about how horrible this team is, and how elite another team is...the gaps between teams in the NFL are not nearly as wide as they're made out to be...

for instance, put Peyton on today's Browns roster...with a projected avg.+ OL and a few weapons, our O would probably be top15-top10...and our D as of now is not really any worse than Indy's...1 player, albeit a HOFer, would change our team to a SB contender immediately...but the talking heads like to make the good better and the bad worse...i suppose it's not good TV to say 'most teams have a decent shot this year, your guess is as good as mine'...

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Good teams have a way of stringing together 2-3-4 wins in a row before suffering a setback, and then do it again.

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The first 3 would be a great start Ya never know.

I liked the NFL preseason mantra "Who wants it more?" That's the attitude this team needs.
Who wants it more? The Browns do!

I think Romeo Crennel's collar just got a little tighter. One day after issuing a public vote of confidence for the coach, Savage is laying down the benchmark: win some games, sure - especially in the division - but be "competitive" in all your games. He can't afford too many clunkers and stay on as HC.

Take Perry off the team, and add Minter.. and then we have the best 53 team chance to win

I like Phil Savage a lot.

When he explains himself, he makes very good sense. And he's not dumb either. He's saying what everyone else is saying about next year. We need D-Line and another RB.

I'm not really worried whom our coach is next season as long as we stay in a 3-4 ( I want Marty back), but Savage better not get fired this season. I like the guys we brought in. And think about it, if DeMeco Ryans dropped one more spot last year we definitely would have had him. That really dissapointed me (wanted him of course; one rated over D'Qwell also)

6-10, 4-12. These weren't Savage's fault. I'm hoping for 7-9 this year, may be two or three wins in the division. Then everyone keeps their job and we hold course.

Just clicking


God,, I can't believe this,,, the season hasn't started yet, the Preseason just ended and we went 3-1 (as if that matters) which is better than going 1-3 and already, Savage is defending RAC... and people are writing about who the next coach will or should be..

It's the 3rd year of a 5 year plan... we've improved on paper..

How about we all just give it a chance to succeed before we proclaim it dead.. By the way, that's more for the MEDIA types than the fans...


I'm just do sick of the media......

No doubt.

This is a clear signal that the personnel side of the organization feels it has the team in position to make a move and now it it up to the coaching side to get something done.

We are so fortunate to have PS as our GM,....I cringe when I think back to the days of BD and staff,....we've really come along way in a relatively short time.

It's important for the team to buy into what Phil is saying,...because he speaks the truth and tells it like it is.We are close,....very close,....we have the talent,...we just need that winning attitude week in and week out.It's SO important for this team to feel like their good,....right now I think they do,....BUT, string together a few bad games early on (especially against division opponents) and all can be lost.

Overcoming the media perception of us is probably THE MOST important thing for the team do right now,...it amazes me how influential they are to not only the fans but the rest of the league,...albeit with a limited knowledge of what's really going on with the team.

I can't help but to keep thinking about the Saints last year,...Aside from being enamored about the addition of Bush I don't think the media had them winning too many games,....I remember we (as fans) felt pretty confident that we would take that first game and were amazed that their fans felt the same about their team,....If I remember correctly we were favored for that game....we all know the rest of that story.

Phil is right on with the status of this team,...but not too many people outside of this organization are going care about what he says unless we can put up the "W's".I just hope our guys can stay focused long enough for the rest of the league to take notice.....a little love can go along way.

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i think it's a bit of an overstatement to say that we've filled 5/7 key positions that they've identified...

JT, Quinn, and Wright have all showed promise, but it's 1 preseason, for crying out loud...hard to say those are lock-down solutions at this point...

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It's not an "overstatement" dna if you read exactly how he addressed that.


"Five of those seven are filled with players that should be here for a while because they are young, talented prospects and that's a good sign," said Savage, referring to Brady Quinn, Joe Thomas, Braylon Edwards, Kamerion Wimbley and Eric Wright.


You can't say he's misrepresenting anything with that statement,....If we were going into the draft TODAY,...what areas would we address first?
Definately DL,RB,and a not too distant 3rd WR.

I don't care at all if the local and national media, or opposing teams' fans respect us. I do care if opposing teams respect us and I want it to be the kind of respect that comes from getting their asses handed to them when they play our team. Win or lose, I want the team to know they have to bring their "A" game when they play the Cleveland Browns. The media and the fans are sheep and will follow, once the Browns get respect inside the league.

AMAZING ..... SIMPLY AMAZING ..... I have no clue how u read something and COMPLETELY MISS THINGS that are blatantly obvious .... lets take a quick review ....

the main quote is this one ....

I believe we'll take a step forward this year," he said. "I really do. I just truly believe that this team is going to win. There's no question in my mind of if we are going to win. It's when we are going to win."

do u UNDERSTAND at all what that says???? its pretty clear to me ... lets break it down ...

1. were going to take a STEP FORWARD this year .... we won 4 games last year .... taking a step forward is going to 6 or 7 wins .. NOT 9 or 10 wins .. thats a LEAP .... its more than DOUBLING the win # ... thats at a minimum a HUGE STEP FORWARD ...

2. theres no question were going to win its just a matter of WHEN ..... as in NOT THIS YEAR ..... want proof of that???? well look no further than this statement ...

Savage said he and coach Romeo Crennel identified seven impact positions when they took over: quarterback, running back, left tackle, big-play wideout, defensive lineman, pass rusher and corner.

"Five of those seven are filled with players that should be here for a while because they are young, talented prospects and that's a good sign," said Savage, referring to Brady Quinn, Joe Thomas, Braylon Edwards, Kamerion Wimbley and Eric Wright.


so lets see here 5 of the 7 are filled with YOUNG TALENT .... and lets break that down ....

1 of the 5 wont start til at least the BYE ....

3 of the 5 are ROOKIES .....

1 of the 5 is a 2nd year guy .....

1 of the 5 is a 3rd year guy ....

Hmmmmmm ... wonder with all that YOUTH and INEXPERIENCE at the key positions why he PREFECED his we will win mantra with .... its not if its WHEN .... *LOL* ....

this is just another thing you won't take at what it means you'll just focus on one sentance and IGNORE THE REST OF THE ARTICLE so u can continue your vigalante against RAC ...

I'm sure Pit will be chiming in soon talking about a coin flip .. *LOL* ...

so hows the hood coming???????

You mean Savage thinks we still need to address the DL and RB positions?? Wow

I agree for the most part with the article. I'm not sure we're on par with the talent that the Bears have on defense... we'll see.

Was that rant in response to Peen's post(s) or did you click on the wrong reply button?

That venum you just spewed sure doesn't match any post in this thread.

You need to calm down a little and stop taking things so personally...Quinn will be just fine.

General reply

Attitude and confidence is everything. A small highschool team back in the late 80s went like 9 years without losing a home game. They were ranked in the top 5 highschool teams in america for 4 years. Only 2 guys from the team ever went on to play college ball and only 1 made it to division 1 as a backup. The tallest guy on the team was 6-1. The difference is the coach had a philosophy of make every possesion count.

Now i know its basketball but we have all seen similar in football. This week Appalacian St beats #5 Michigan at home. Last year the Saints put it together through confidence with a new coach and Drew Brees. Hell the 2002 Browns would have been in the Superbowl if Davis wouldnt have gone prevent, there wasnt that much talent but there was confidence.

Right now I see a secondary with a tremendous amount of confidence. They are young but they are the one unit on the defense that has the walk. The DL and Linebackers dont have it yet.

On offense I see that confidence from Edwards Winslow and the offensive line. Right now the confidence isnt there with RB (Jamal hasnt shown that full trust to break through the gap) and QB (major confidence is with Brady Quinn)

So what u get is a young team that is bordering on a great season if the confidence wins out but also a team bordering on a complete meltdown if the negative wins out.

I know i probably made little since in this long winded post but there is a battle brewing within the Browns. The team that believes they are better than anyone they play and the team that is looking up to see if the sky is falling.

No, I hit the correct button ... thanks for asking ...

If u don't like the venom I spew ... don't read it .... pretty simple stuff .... use the IGNORE FUNCTION if u like .... I hardly if ever read U ... and theres a reason for that ...

I have always known that BQ will be more than OK .... so ne need to concern yourself with what I do and don't worry about as far as he;s concerned .. but again, thanks for caring ...

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Its not "vigilantiism" to recognize that Crennel's status is a major subplot in the upcoming season. What Savage did with this interview, IMO, was state management's expectations along with his view that the talent is there to be "competitive". He's saying, in effect, is that Crennel will be judged qualitatively - how the team plays and competes as opposed to quantitatively - # of wins. "How well" is more important than "how many", IMO.

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I would agree 100% with that assesment ... its how it shoudl be for EVERY COACH ... problem is theres a group of posters led by Peenie and Mourg that want RAC gone .. and no matter what he does it gets CRAPPED on by them ... thats vigaliantism ... at least where i come from ...

Sorry man....the article is about how Savage feels the roster is in pretty good shape.

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"We have a solid core group of 35 players," Savage said. "We have a legitimate NFL roster. It gives us a chance to compete and potentially win a lot of games, not only this year but next year and the year after. I feel good about where we are - about the final 53 [players]."

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This is a clear indication Savage feels the roster won't be the problem if we don't win some games.

Yeah but there's also a degree of CYA going on here by Savage ... he's saying "Hey, we did our job.".

The other thing going on (again, JMO) is Savage is blurring the standards for judging Crennel. It is conceivable that he may do a better coaching job and go 6-10 ... while being competitive in every game, than by going 8-8 with a couple fluke wins and more than a couple blow-out losses. I would add that I agree with that approach, but it can also be construed as being self-serving from Savage's point-of-view. Long story short, Crennel's future lies in Savage's opinion of the coaching job he did with the talent he had. As of right now, Savage is stating boldly that the talent is there.

If we look as awful as last season, Romeo might be gone. But that isn't going to happen unless we are hit with catastrophic injury after catastrophic injury. We are a better team, maybe enough to shock the NFL and make the playoffs. A fairly big stretch, but it could happen.

Even if we go 5-11 or 6-10, but look competitive and show steady improvement, Romeo will be back in 2008.

I agree that wins don't have to be the deciding factor.

Shottenheimer got canned with a boatload of them.

But a lack of them does carry increased weight.

Yes u did say that last week .. and i said last week that u are CLUELESS .... and that hasnt changed .. *LOL* ..

Savage KNOWS we are not ready .... that is why he PREFACED EVERYTHING HE SAID ... as i said u CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT and focus on what U want ..... to set RAC up to be FIRED cause u thikn he STINKS AS A COACH ..

U know it and I know it .. and anyone that reads this board that has a clue knows it ...

U can spin it any way u want ... we BOTH KNOW THE TRUTH .... about how u feel and what Opie THINKS ...

I mean u literally show your TRUE AGENDA and how little u actually know when u just IGNORE things like ...

we have 5 of the 7 key positions filleD .. 3 with rookies (one that wont play until at least the bye ... ) and 1 with a 2nd year guy and one with a third year guy .... and u think he's STUPID enough to think 10 WINS is't a PIPE DREAM at best???? *LOL* ..

thats the definition of cluelessnes and an agenda driven statement ... your from the "Don/bOtch school of speaking with a forked tongue ... *LOL* ...

Sorry man...Savage feels the roster is pretty solid.

If he didn't, and said what he did...then you need to talk to him about being clueless and having a agenda because that is a first class set-up.

I believe him....we have good players and there aren't many reasons why we can't compete and win against all but a few select teams around the league.

Man u guys need to quit this agenda bullcrap. Frankly Peen and I have never held back our opinion on anything around here. We dont have to post with hidden agendas. When we post our opinion of Romeo its pretty freaking obvious since we both have stated he is a moron. Why have a hidden agenda? lol There is no reason to hide anything. comments were made on an article take it at what it is. Just like in the roster thread, there was no hidden agenda, I thought some of the moves were idiotic and said it there. Sorry but hidden agendas from the loud mouths on this board just doesnt happen very often. Hell u give us to much credit of trying to plan through our comments.

I dditn say u had a hidden agenda .. your not like Peenie at all ... u come rght out and say it .. do'tn put words in my mouth ...

I said u want RAC gone ... never said u have a hidden agenda ...

Peenie up above said he doesnt want RAC fired ... did u not read that?? GOING IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION to what he has said a million times ... *LOL* ... so u can take your pick at what he is ... i chose HIDDEN AGENDA .cause when he says Opie says were GOING TO WIN NOW he IGNORES everything else Opie said that would lead anyone with a CLUE that he thinks we can win 9 or 10 games ..

Mour .. I have no probs with U ... your not like peenie ... i KNOW u dotn believe this team has ANY CHANCE at winnig 9 or 10 games ... U know the TALENT is there but u also know its YOUNG AND RAW AND INEXPERIENCED ... witch is EXACTLY what Opie said .. but the posters with less class like peenie choose to say this means Opie thinks we have a TEAM RIGHT NOW CAPABLE OF winning 9 or 10 games .. and thats JUST NOT TRUE ON ANY LEVEL ....

if u see noting wrong with what he is doing and what his HIDDEN AGENDA is in these statements .. then i been giving u too much credit ...

In essence, what i think Phil is trying to convey to the fans is that league parity throughout various divisions has made it possible for any team to turn around their fortunes if they have built a team in the proper way. And, although we don't have all the pieces (DL,RB of future & enough depth) we've come a long way and the potential and talent is here.

Now, it's up to our HC and his young coaching staff to put together a cohesive team with a winning attitude when the take the field, which will only grow and perpetuate with each win and build confidence in these young men we now have playing for us. JMHO

I don't think anyone has posted this article yet, sems relevant to the discussion.

Changing of the guard continues
Steve King, Staff Writer
09.01.2007
The Browns could put a full 11-man team onto the field -- maybe -- with the players left from before general manager Phil Savage and head coach Romeo Crennel arrived in early 2005.


As the Browns made their final roster cuts on Saturday to get down to the regular-season limit of 53, there are just 11 players -- or roughly 20 percent of that total -- from 2004 or before. And the status of one of them -- offensive lineman Ryan Tucker -- is in limbo since he has been suspended by the NFL for the first four games of the year.


So can you play with just 10 guys? No, didn't think so, either.


That emphasizes just how much Savage and Crennel have re-made this team in an attempt to get it out of the doldrums since the Browns returned to the field in 1999.


"It has been an overhaul, and it has been a journey to get here," Savage said in a state-of-the-Browns press conference framed around the announcement of the roster reductions on Saturday.


It was an overhaul that was sorely needed, Savage pointed out. The team he and Crennel inherited was "a mess," one whose lifeline had been slowly cut when the Browns failed to hit on any of their first-round draft picks from that 1999 expansion season through 2002.


In fact, Savage noted that by the end of Saturday, all of them -- quarterback Tim Couch, No. 1 overall in 1999, defensive end Courtney Brown (No. 1 in 2000), defensive tackle Gerard Warren (No. 3 in '01) and running back William Green (No. 16 in '02) -- could be out of the league.


"Talk about setting up an organization on its ear," Savage said. "I'm not even talking about backups. I'm talking about out of the league. That speaks volumes of where we were starting from."


Or, as Savage has said, "starting over."


He recalled, "In December 2004, when there were rumors that I might be a potential candidate to come to Cleveland to be the GM, I can tell you that I had some concern when I looked at the roster at that time and saw the lack of quality, the lack of depth and everything else that went with it.


"But if someone would have told me back then that by September 2007, that these would be the players on the Cleveland Browns, I would have said, ‘You know, I probably should take that job,' because that is a pretty good core to work with. That's a good core to build on."


Savage mentioned the long list of players who have been added, whose presence now allows the Browns, he said, to begin to "climb out of the hole we've been in.


"We have a solid core group of 35 players. We have a legitimate NFL roster. It gives us a chance to compete and potentially win a lot of games, not only this year but next year and the year after. I feel good about where we are -- about the final 53. In the NFL, the talent is relative and competitive across the league. We are at a point where we are in the mix.


"I told the team after the game (against the Chicago Bears) on Thursday night that I honestly could have not stood in front of them at the end of the preseason in 2005 and '06 and say that I thought they would all have an opportunity to land elsewhere.


"But I did tell this year's group -- the remaining 75 before these final cutdowns -- that I felt like that if they weren't with us on our final 53, or on our practice squad, that every one of them had a legitimate chance to make it in the NFL somewhere in some way, shape,or form."


While the Browns have made strides, however, Savage admits the job is far from over.


Of the seven core position areas on a team, there are still two -- running back and defensive line -- where they have not yet been able to acquire long-term solutions to the problem. That will take another NFL Draft, another free-agency signing period -- another year, at least.


"That's why they give five-year contracts," Save quipped.


Savage also pointed out that it took the Baltimore Ravens four years before they hit the break-even point. They were, in order, 4-12, 6-9-1 and 6-10 in those first three seasons before going 8-8 in 1999 and laying the groundwork for that Super Bowl victory in 2000.


Though it was slow and incremental, the Ravens kept getting better. What they never wanted to do then, though -- and what the Browns certainly don't want to do now -- is go backward.


"We have invested 31 months into the roster -- and it goes beyond the roster into the entire organization -- and this 2007 season, from my perspective, and our perspective as an organization, is all about protecting what we've done for the last 31 months," Savage said. "That's my job as the GM, to protect that investment. We have worked at this task on a daily basis, and now it's time to let that grow and develop.


"I believe we will take a step forward this year. I really do. I just truly believe that this team is going to win. There's no question in my mind of if we are going to win. It's when we are going to win."


He went on, "To win in the NFL, you have to have good talent and good coaching. Since we've been here, I think we've had good coaching and we've had decent talent, but not to the level of what it takes to consistently win.

"Like I've said a couple of times, you hope to win, you think you can win and then there's the feeling of you know you can win. We won't be satisfied until our roster is at a stage where we feel like we can go out there and win every game.

"That's what I was comfortable with at my previous job (with the Ravens). Every time we put the helmets on, we knew we could win.

"And we certainly have some of the pieces in place here now."


From the Official Site.

its very very simple Dave .. he is saying EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANS ....

1. the team has TALENT on it .. PRETTY GOOD TALENT ....
2. hes saying that the TALENT on the team is VERY VERY YOUNG ....
3. he is saying the TALENT we have on this team WILL WIN ... he is just not saying NOW cause he knows its not TRUE ... they will WIN its WHEN not If .... key word ... WHEN .... meaning WHEN IT GROWS UP AND MATURES and gains experience ...

one of the problems with alot of Dawgs is what I call the "Don/bOtch" affect ... they were two faced liars that would say whatever they had to get what they want or what they thought people wanted to hear while COMPLETELY IGNORING THE TRUTH ...

THERE GONE .... and part of the reason was the forked tongues they spoke with ... UNFORTUNATLY their STENCH is still here as now everyone believes that its all about CYA and not about telling the truth ...

Opie has NO REASON to say things like "I've done my job" in case we have a bad season ..... NO REASON at all ... hes done a WONDERFUL JOB OF AQUIRING GOOD YOUNG TALENT ... and i am sure Lerner KNOWS THIS ...

Naa ... all Opie said was what i been saying all along ... and what the folks with a CLUE on this board know to be true ...

we have a GOOD YOUNG CORE OF TALENTED PLAYERS that in a year or two will be in a position to make a run at the SB for us ..

its that SIMPLE ... and thats what he said ...

It's hard to blame people Diam,,, like you said, the Policy/Davis era left many of us with a HUGE mistrust of the organization. In a way, we should all be grown up enough to allow for this regime to prove thier worth without saddleing them with the sins of the past..

I know that, but yet sometimes it's hard to accomplish. It's the old "once bitten, twice shy" thing.

Too be perfectly honest, from the very first time Phil Savage spoke publically, he delivered the very same message. That is that when he got here, the talent on this team was just awful (paraphrasing).

To further show that he meant it when he said we weren't talented enough, he set out to change the roster,,,,

As of a moment ago when I checked the roster, there are only 10 players leff on this team the previous regimes... Only 1 first round pick is left and worse yet, only 2 second rounders are still here. If that doesn't say it all, nothing does.

Now all that's left is for them to prove it on the field.. ON paper this is the best and deepest team we've had here since the days of Modell and Belichick...

I think Savage has a pretty good understanding of the issues inherited, and has done a good job articulating those thoughts to the media.

People try to read into his statements some other motivation, but I just don't see it.

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People try to read into his statements some other motivation, but I just don't see it.

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Yea, I know. And I think the reason is that lots of people are so darn distrustful of the organization.. It's hard to blame them for thier feelings. But it's totally unfair to RAC and Phil... and to a great extent Randy Lerner.

For the first 18 or so months, Lerner was influnced by Policy and the guy who took over for him... it seems that when those influnces were gone, things got clearer... to me anyway.

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but I would bet in private he thinks 10 wins isn't a major stretch.

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I find that hard to believe if he's looking at the team realistically. We have a good core put in place, but it's a young team. There's a lot of growth needed. To go from 4 wins to 10 is a HUGE leap with a team like ours... I don't know what number Savage is thinking, but I think 6-8 wins is more realistic. I could (and hope) to be proved wrong. But I'm not going to be calling for RAC's head if we only win 6.