DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns got better when they learned to behave, economically speaking

Actually, I don't believe this is true either... If I recall, I think we had one of the oldest if not THE oldest defenses in the league in 2015... the year before Sashi decided to dismantle things.

Love this!

You mean if you went and hired a vice president from outside the administration to do the opposite of what the president that died did? To re-build a nation that the former president had torn down?

Okay.

So "you believe" that Berry has a huge influence on Dorsey? Well that's a nice belief to "feel". Was Berry on a hotline to Dorsey when he built the Chiefs too?

You see, this isn't Dorsey's first rodeo.

We did, IIRC.

It's about time you came back to reality.

I feel like you keep striking out...

Berry is still here, Dorsey didn't fire him, so yeah, I'm pretty sure he is an influence... same with Depodesta. Dorsey is just the face and reaps the benefits when it looks like we win, must like Sashi was the face and everyone blames his despite guys like Berry and Depodesta having a strong influence.

This isn't the first time Dorsey was a General Manager, but I do think this is the first time he's General Manager with complete control. Probably oranges to oranges, but this isn't the same job/situation he had in Kansas City. He was also hired after Reid became the HC there...

Did you just prove yourself wrong?

They weren't in Kansas City. Do they act as a support staff? Sure they do. But you keep omitting the fact that Dorsey knew how to build a team when he got here. He had done it before without anyone that was here under Sashi.

And Reid took the team Dorsey built to within one game of the SB.

No. We were the second youngest team in 2016, the first youngest team in 2017 and the second youngest team in 2018. Just like I said we were.

So we were middle of the pack the year before Sashi took over with the difference between us (16th) and the 32nd team being 1.1 yrs.

I said they were as well. But, you're the one who said they were also that young before Sashi took over. Looks to me they were ranked 16th. We both weren't right, but you're the one who posted like you knew something.

Sashi started in January of 2016 ...

Second youngest after cutdowns according to the article. So that means Dansby, Whitner, Kruger, etc. were all gone.

Right. And after the draft and vet players were cut, the September 2016 roster had us as the second youngest. We broke the roster completely down. I get that.

Sorry, thought I replied to Pit and must of clicked you instead.

No worries.

Obviously you either aren't reading or aren't following the thread. Not sure which. Someone tried to make a point that our roster was so young in 2017. I pointed out that our roster wasn't much different from an age perspective in either of the years 2016 though 2018.

Even after Dorsey overhauled over three fifths of the roster for the 2018 season we were the second youngest team in the NFL with a much better talent level. Youth isn't an excuse to be bad.

I thought this is what you said...

I haven't compared cap space. You said this....



The roster was ranked 16th in the league in 2015. At the start of the 2016 season, it was 2nd. That's a sizable difference in ranking and remained so for three years straight.

It went from 2nd ('13), 9th ('14), 16th ('15) before Sashi knocked it down back to 2nd and 1st respectively.

And yet Dorsey made a youthful team a winner. So age was no excuse.

With extra draft picks inherited that helped supressed age number down one of which was 21? Let's not forget we have a franchise QB now too.

And you are talking to me about a false premise?

You do realize that Sashi had 14 picks going into the 2016 draft and 10 picks, including three first round picks in 2017, right? And Dorsey had 11 that included 2 first round picks.

Why didn't Dorsey's team go belly up with all of that youth?

How many snaps did rookies play in 2018 versus 2016 and 2017?

I'm not doing your homework.

Compare the roster at the end of 2015 through 2018, put emphasis on adding Baker Mayfield, added weight on removing Hue, see youth develop over the past 2-3 years and that should get you a general sense of why we didn't go belly up.

Mmmm hmmmm....

So replacing three fifths of the roster was irrelevant. Got it.

At least your consistent to the Crusade....

I wonder what the reason could be...


2016 Youthful Roster - Hue Jackson HC - 1-15
2017 Youthful Roster - Hue Jackson HC - 0-16
2018 Youthful Roster - Hue Jackson HC - 2-5-1
2018 Youthful Roster - Gregg Williams HC - 5-3

When you have to replace three fifths of your roster to win that speaks volumes.

You do realize most all of the major contributors on the O were Dorsey players, right? You also realize that even as bad as Hue was, he had a better record in this year in half a season than he did combined in his first two full seasons here with dorsey's roster, right?

Facts matter.

I think that's what you don't get. That was always the intent. Tear the roster down to the studs. Replace the team with young guys that may or not perform, and stick with the guys that do. In the meantime, stock up on cap-space and high draft picks, so that when you separate the wheat from the chaff, you can replace the chaff with actual wheat because you have a ton of cap room and high draft picks.

You keep pounding the fact that Sashi had 14 draft picks. Most of those were 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks. Many of those were acquired through trades that got us future high picks. From that, we got guys like Schobert, Ogbah, Kindred, Higgins, DeValve. That's 5 solid contributors from one draft, while getting a bunch of high picks for future years. The next year we had 3 number 1 picks, and 5 picks in the top 75, which (outside of Kizer, who was traded for Mitchell) have all become core guys for us. In the meantime, we still stockpiled even more picks and cap space (another 5 picks in the top 75), which let us get the guys that Dorsey ultimately drafted.

I feel like that was always the plan.

My guess is that Kindred is at the bottom of the depth chart and probably won't be on the roster when the season begins. In 13 games Devalve had seven touches and five catches for 74 yards. In the best of his three seasons he had 33 receptions for 395 yards. He's had a total of 4 td's in three seasons.

I'm not sure what you define as a solid contributor. Just because someone is holding down a position until you find their replacement isn't saying as much as some would like to indicate.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Maybe you should wait until Dorsey begins season two of his reign before you talk about all of these "solid contributors"?

Device if you are saying that Dorsey was simply a conduit for decisions made by others I do not buy that at all. Everything I saw or read seemed to indicate that he was on mayfield all the way. I read somewhere (no citation available) that he was the one who drove the ward choice over Chubb. Not sure about later choices but I imagine he made those calls as well. No question he works with all parties to get maximum information but I would bet he always makes the final decision. He has mentioned the word “collaboration”’ about 500 times since he got here so I am certain all were involved.

What I do not get is the unwillingness or inability of fans like pit and diam to acknowledge that sashi brought in some good young talent and left the new guy with great potential assets. I think 10 of our starters were acquired or resigned by brown. I will venture that next year 9 of those 10 will still be starters next year. I think it is possible to appreciate the things sashi left behind and believe that Dorsey has done a great great job.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm one of the few on this board that brought to light very early last season that it was a very real possibility that Mayfield will be the pick because of Dorsey. I think it was about this time last year that we hired McCoughlan and I felt that was also a strong indicator. And as Memphis mentioned, I believe Mayfield was one of the few who appealed to both the football guys and analytics. It's not relevant to my stance here, but I think we were taking Mayfield whether Dorsey is here or not... Gettleman might be one of the few who wouldn't have.

My recollection on the Ward over Chubb pick was somewhat analytical. From what I recall they may have both been rated the same or similar, but the reasoning Dorsey gave for the pick was that we were like half a second or something away on a lot of plays from sacking the quarterback. With better DBs, that would give the opposing quarterback enough pause that we would be able to disrupt him and his throw or sack him. Made sense and whether it was all Dorsey's pick or not, by saying that I feel analytics were involved.

The issue I have with a lot of what you're saying is that you're passing the following statement off as fact:



(It's not)

It's not a fact, that's just your opinion, and I'd be surprised if it's an opinion shared by many. I don't agree with the part of your statement that insinuates the reason we won is because the turnover in roster. I think it's a part of it for sure, but the sole reason? No.

Turnover was going to happen regardless of who was here. It was always part of the plan. And it also happens every year. It's not like this was some novel idea Dorsey conjured up.


You also seem to be saying that we don't need all these draft picks, insisting we just need someone better picking them. I don't agree with this either. This is that notion of "winning the draft." No one, not even Belichick drafts that consistently well to be able to pull that off.

The teams that don't trade back for additional picks and just select where they are, are the teams that don't fair well. I think I recall reading Gettleman is one. He doesn't do a lot of trades and just feels he can "outdraft" everyone else. Bad news...you can't. Might get lucky once in a while, but over the long haul you're doomed.


I simply don't agree with either of your ideas here that you pass off as facts... They're just opinions and you seem to get confused so easily by that.

I agree and also read that some years ago.

Sashi sold the plan to Jimmy.

I found this interesting.

https://clutchpoints.com/salary-cap-wiza...-situation-nfl/

Pit. You are wrong. I have to agree w/those football savvy guys. They have convinced me that Sashi is a true football genius.

In fact, I am going to start a campaign that the NFL is colluding against the awesome Sashi Brown. After all, he is such an obvious revolutionary football genius that there is no legitimate reason why no other NFL team has hired him after a year and half of being unemployed.

It has to be collusion because Sashi is a true football god.

I think this will be Sashi Brown's first public comments since he was fired. Should be fun and interesting.

Is he interviewing or getting a job offer?