DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season 2019 NFL Draft With the 17th pick in the 2019 the NFL draft the Cleveland Browns select

I hope not. Dude is crazy athletic and a good tackler, but I think he doesn't understand how to play the position. He's not a very smart player, doesn't read his keys very well.

Not to say he isn't worth a chance, but I'm pretty sure there will be better players at 17. If they want a 1st round LBer, I'd rather go Bush than White.

Happy birthday!

. I throw White's name out there because I've read good things about him.

LOL........okay. We're at that age.

There appears to be a legit chance ed Oliver dt is there at 17. He is imho the 3rd best player behind Allen and Bosa.

Oliver was rated very high before the season. Some had him ahead of Bosa. He was either 1 or 2 on the projections that I saw.

He didn't shine this year and that incident on the sideline w/his coach is troubling. Loose cannons worry me.

The coat thing, I can understand both sides. He had been injured he still wanted to feel like he was one of the guys. Coach says only those playing wear the jacket so take it off. Then he pulled it off him.

So Oliver frustrated by the injury, and feeling like an outsider is being publicly. Dressed down by the coach, literally and figuratively.

Simmons is a very good player. guard dog is a very good poster. He knows the game and I respect his opinions. He has been very high on Simmons.

We might want to educate ourselves a bit more about him. Let's watch--and read--some things on him and then talk about him.

I love Simmons I am a SEC guy who watches a lot of SEC games. The guy is a player.

I don't worry about him punching some girl while in HS. The girl was punching his sister. That is far enough in the past with enough reason to forget that.

I just don't know about drafting a guy as a "redshirt" guy. He will have to sit a year.

If he is still there with pick two, the redshirt doesn't sound as bad. He won't be there in round three unless we trade up. Some team is bound to take the guy mid round 2 to mid round 3.

He is a solid player who if healthy is going to make some GM look like a genius.

I just want to say that the ACL isn't that big of a deal. If you're asking your DT to make a lot of cuts, or lateral movements then you already have a major problem.

I am not worried about the injury long term. I guess I am being selfish in that I don't really like the idea of drafting a guy with our #1 pick who isn't going to play this season. I'd feel better about it if we could get him with our 2nd pick, maybe even a trade back in to round 1 to get him

j/c,

imo ... Simmons is a throwback 3t.

He is quick out off the snap, but he was slow as molasses before his injury ... Thus a tackle to tackle guy only, with no ability to pursue a ball carrier outside the tackles.

But, isn't that the kind of guy we need?

Consider the evolution of the QB's, and that they are moving away from the one time traditional pocket passer ... no ... not imo.

Okay. I will just say that I disagree.

I think that Ogunjobi [spelling?] is a good DT, but he is light in the pants and gets moved easily in the run game. I think that we don't have a big guy that can't be moved and can not only make plays in the interior run game, but also keep his linebackers clean by occupying blocks so they can be more effective making stops in the run game.

I agree. We need somebody who can be a force against the run 3 yards each side of the center.

He can also pressure up the middle. I like Simmons. I just don't like him for the 1st round.

How about Pat Mahomes ... Homes?

Jc..

With Jefferey Simmons...Kind of like Sidney Jones situation (both were sure fire 1st round picks, both got hurt at the combine or shortly before) Sidney had no off-field incidents and went in the 3rd round...That's probably as soon as I would look to draft Simmons as well.

And we have two 3rd rounders. I could easily see us use one on him. I could see us use both of them to trade up to even the bottom of the 2nd to get him.

We have the ammo to get back in to round 3.

I doubt the injury cost Simmons more than a round.

Both Sidney Jones and Jaylon Smith went in round 2 (picks 43 and 34 respectively), so historically a commonly recoverable injury costs 20-25 slots for a high end player. ie: Myles Jack

That said, I would definitely take Simmons if he were there at 49.

What are your thoughts about the type of DT we should be looking for? Do we want another penetrating, disruptive DT (like Ogunjobi) wreaking havoc in opponents backfields, or do we want a wide-body, stay-at-home, blocker-eater who clogs the middle? The reason I ask is because I don't think you'd need to use the 17th pick on the latter type, in which case we might be looking at a CB there, IMO. Then, you get your "complementary" DT in the 2nd or 3rd round.

The evolution is happening currently. The experimentation happened during Warren Moon, Vick and McNabb. Of course, they're doing nothing that the 50's didn't do with Tarkenton or Graham. They just know how to package it better. But the more ways an offense can stress a defense, the better they are. Dual threat QBs are back in style again. Teams don't need a Brady, Marino or Peyton. They need a guy who can get you yards through the air and through the ground.

The point seems to be lost to you.

I said nothing of a dual threat QB.

What I am referring to is QBs' that can extend plays outside of the pocket, and make plays off schedule ... Like Baker!

QBs' such as Big Ben are an exception to this trend.

Also the fact that Murray is even being considered as the #1 pick in this years Draft ... adds testimony to my assertion of this evolution @QB.

Although the question wasn't directed to me, I've read several articles since Vernon was acquired, saying that Dorsey wants pass rush from each position on the defensive line.

Thanks for the info.

It really is a good question. While I would love to have a penetrating DT, I just think our linebackers would play a lot better if they had DTs who could absorb blocks and allow the linebackers to pursue without impediments.

Like others, I find this to be an outstanding question. I wish we had more of this type of thinking and/or questions on this board.

I have no idea what Dorsey will do. I have my own opinion and will explain my reasoning, but I want to be clear that Dorsey might not agree and go in a totally different direction. I am NOT predicting what Dorsey will do. LOL

I look at it like this. Myles is much better at rushing the passer than playing the run.

Ogunjobi is a penetrating DT who can get engulfed by blockers in the run game.

Vernon is known as a pass rusher. However, I really have no idea how good he is at stopping the run. He may be good. He may not. I don't know. I know he earned a big contract because he can get after the qb.

Our run defense struggled last year.

Our linebackers missed a lot of tackles and in my opinion, I think they did because they were not kept clean by the d-line and were not in good position to make tackles after they slipped blocks. Picture that in your mind. Slipping off of someone and lunging at a ballcarrier as opposed to hitting the dude head-on. I don't think they are great tacklers, but I think this was a factor.

To be very fair, our pass rush was not very good last year, either.

I think we have upgraded our pass rush w/Vernon.

Thus, I would prefer that we acquire a run-stuffing DT who eats up blockers and helps keep our LBers free. I agree that this type of DT should be available outside of the first round. That would allow us to draft a player at another position of need and more importantly.....just draft the BPA.

That's my case. Not saying I am right or that is what we will do. Just love talking "football."

Thanks Dave for getting this conversation started.

I thought of it because we were talking the other day in the Jack Gregory thread about that early 70's Browns' DL ... Jack Gregory and Joe Jones swooping in from the outside at DE, Jerry Sherk running roughshod in oppo backfields, and Walter Johnson as the anchor to the whole line. He was built like an oak tree, and all he ever did was take up blockers and stone people at the LOS. Never got much credit, but he was an awesome DT. I agree with you that its the type of DT we should be looking for.

Nice connection.

You mean like ...Danny Shelton?