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I know we don't need to draft 11 players. If we trade up at some point, fine. If we trade down for future picks, fine. If we trade for a current vet player, fine.
Don't draft 11 rookies. That isn't using our assets to the fullest.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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j/c:
Does Dorsey have a history of trading down? I don't believe he does, but I could be wrong. I think some people forget that Dorsey is here and the analytic guys are either gone or don't have much say in the draft.
I trust Dorsey to do the right thing, but I will talk about this simply for conversational purposes.
I think we need to make moves now. I think it would be wise to take advantage of the rookie contracts of some of our core players, including Myles, Baker, Ward, and Chubb. I think trading for--and signing--Landry was such a move. I think signing Hunt this year is another significant move.
I think it would be smart to use free agency, make trades, and acquire important pieces in the draft to take advantage of those rookie contracts. The money and draft resources are available now. I think a lot of Brown's fans have this loser mentality where they want to be cautious and save for a rainy day that isn't likely to ever come.
I don't think that Dorsey will go crazy and squander away our assets, but I do think he will make strategic moves to get the players he wants now. Thus, I don't think he will try and trade up into the top 10 and especially not into the top 6. Those kind of moves are very costly.
However, you can often find very good players at the top of each round. Thus, trading up to move to the top of the second round to acquire a player that you didn't think would be there seems to be the sort of move Dorsey would like. I can see that logic playing out in rounds 3 and 4 also. I'm not saying he should do that in all three of those rounds, but I would not be shocked to see him do that at least once and perhaps twice.
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I know we don't need to draft 11 players. If we trade up at some point, fine. If "your player" is getting tantalizingly close to your draft slot, by all means trade up. As 'peen said, we don't need 11 rookies. We need quality, not quantity. Nice position to be in; one not known to us...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Wasn't Mangini's first year the draft where our first pick was abeau Bell in the fourth round or did that fall under RAC? I didn't bother to do a google search, but I'm pretty sure that draft was under Romeo. I think Mangini's first draft was with Mack, MoMass, and Brian Robiskie, and all those other no name guys who brought lots of controversy to the type of players Mangini liked. Not related to that, but I see a few people mentioning grabbing a MLB in the 1st. I know we are not super strong at the LB spots, but I'm not sure I would invest a 1st round pick at the MLB spot. Although I'm not the biggest fan of Schoebert, I don't think any rookie is gonna come in and take his spot. Or maybe our roster is at a point now where 1st round picks come in as backups and depth.. Wow. We've never had that before. Might take a minute to grasp that concept, and I see some people struggled with it when it came to Corbett not starting last year. I want to go BPA, but if we go based on need, we have to think about DT, DE, OLB, CB, or WR.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
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All Pro
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Julio Jones. 1st round.
Deandre Hopkins. 3rd round.
Mike Evans. 4th round
Tyreek Hill. 5th round
Smith-Schuster. 2nd round
Michael Thomas. 2nd round
Devante Adams. 2nd round
Adam Thielen. UDFA
Antonio Brown. 6th round
TY Hilton. 3rd round
Robert Woods. 2nd round
Brandin Cooks. 1st round
Keenen Allen. 3rd round
Kenny Golladay. 3rd round
Odell Beckhem. 1st round
Tyler Boyd. 2nd round
Stefon Diggs. 5th round ?? Hopkins was a first round pick. As was Mike Evans. All told, 3 WR's drafted after day two were thousand yard guys (with a 4th undrafted). That said. There is not,IMO, a WR worth a pick in the top 20 this year. DK gets injured constantly. But if we don't bring back Perriman, WR is definitely on the table day two
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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As far as trading up, even if we packaged our 1st 3rd round pick and 1st 5th round pick, we'd likely not be in a position to move up past 12 (Green Bay).
Using those extra picks to move up in the 2nd or 3rd seems much more plausible.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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Our Extra Picks: (Adjusted for likely compensatory slots) and the “Trade Value Chart” point matrix.
3rd- 95- 120 points
5th- 141-ish- 35 points
5th- 168-ish- 24 points
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
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That's what I get for posting late at night, with bleary eyes. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I believe every draft has to be taken on a case by case basis.
The players are different.
It is beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. One team may see something another may not.
My point is simple. Each team is in a different stage. One year (like last) maybe you go for quantity. You have a lot of holes. Your team is aging. Another year you are pretty set at a bunch of positions.
Some year there is a run on quarterbacks and a bunch of position studs slide.
If Dorsey identifies a guy that he is super high on and that guy is there at 12. And there is no way he will be there at 17. With where the Browns are this year; it may be best to move up and get the guy.
You don't turn your back on a guy you really believe can help you. When you feel your roster is in the right place.
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I said before, and I'll say it again.
I think that Dorsey has certain priorities in the draft, and he follows who he is at the top of the draft.
The positions he seems to prioritize in the 1st are QB, OL, DL, and CB. We have the QB, so I would expect him to grab the best OL, DL, or CB available when we pick at 17. Unfortunately, I don't think that means we would take White, even if he was there at 17.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Browns currently sit at #17.
The cost to get above ten maybe too heavy.
But say 11 or down to 17 is there a player who could be in those slots worth moving up for?
Free agency is still in the future. So this is a little sketchy to try.
However, we do not have a screaming need. We have some good draft capital. There are guys on the roster that could be traded.
Does anyone see a guy that may be below ten that could really impact the Browns? We would give up #17 what else would have to go?
I don't wish for us to move up but if for some reason we did it would be for a sure thing LT...that would be it.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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~ Legend
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I dig the idea that #1 WRs don't help win superbowls because I'm tired of getting ridiculed for saying that Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson are true best WRs and not Jerry Rice who was a great WR, with an impeccable scheme. It's true.
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j/c:
Does Dorsey have a history of trading down? I don't believe he does, but I could be wrong. I think some people forget that Dorsey is here and the analytic guys are either gone or don't have much say in the draft.
I trust Dorsey to do the right thing, but I will talk about this simply for conversational purposes.
I think we need to make moves now. I think it would be wise to take advantage of the rookie contracts of some of our core players, including Myles, Baker, Ward, and Chubb. I think trading for--and signing--Landry was such a move. I think signing Hunt this year is another significant move.
I think it would be smart to use free agency, make trades, and acquire important pieces in the draft to take advantage of those rookie contracts. The money and draft resources are available now. I think a lot of Brown's fans have this loser mentality where they want to be cautious and save for a rainy day that isn't likely to ever come.
I don't think that Dorsey will go crazy and squander away our assets, but I do think he will make strategic moves to get the players he wants now. Thus, I don't think he will try and trade up into the top 10 and especially not into the top 6. Those kind of moves are very costly.
However, you can often find very good players at the top of each round. Thus, trading up to move to the top of the second round to acquire a player that you didn't think would be there seems to be the sort of move Dorsey would like. I can see that logic playing out in rounds 3 and 4 also. I'm not saying he should do that in all three of those rounds, but I would not be shocked to see him do that at least once and perhaps twice. I don't understand your diatribe against Analytics? Isn't one thread enough? I don't know either if Dorsey has a trade down history. I think it has been mostly up, but we traded down last year in the Randall deal, swapping draft position with GB...maybe in the 4th and 5th rounds? I'd like to see a little of both. Six drafted players would be fine with me. Spend a few picks to move up, spend some to bump forward in to next year. Having extra picks does give you the ability to move around a lot more.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I dig the idea that #1 WRs don't help win superbowls because I'm tired of getting ridiculed for saying that Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson are true best WRs and not Jerry Rice who was a great WR, with an impeccable scheme. It's true.
Jerry Rice btw more than anyone I think in the History of the present Era of NFL. MADE himself into an Elite WR. When draft he was not thought of an Elite #1 WR. Where as Calvin, Moss and even Julio Jones who were great WRs from the draft in themselves could not carry their teams to the SB.
I think the fact that the 49ers were able to get Rice and Montana where they did in the draft and then Young at QB later as the other league disbanded.
But Whether the 49ers had Rice or another I think they would have prospered. There is a difference from those Elite WRs.
You need WRs to win a championship. Just not an ELITE WR. Even in today's era.
jmho...sorry I don't know how this helps or disproves anything you said...read some phrases you used and ran with it...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Diatribe?
Go play w/Memphis.
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--Do the Browns take the 3rd or 4th best DLman with their 1st round pick?...I don't like that move.
What if we have the 3rd or 4th best DLman ranked as the #11 player in the draft, and is the BPA when we are on the clock? That is what the BPA is. Ranking players against all others in the draft and just within their position. If the 4th best DLman is ranked higher overall than the best TE, then the DLman is the better pick. QBs are the exception - you either need to get one early in the draft or you don't. We do not.
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j/c:
I really like the idea of moving up in round 2 or 3. Here are some guys that were drafted in round 2. Drew Brees, Michael Thomas, our own Nick Chubb, Calais Campbell, LeVeon Bell, Shady McCoy, Gronk, Eric Weddle, Anquan Boldin, Andre Whitworth, Clinton Portis, Jordy Nelson, etc.
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Not sure about that. I know you love O linemen. But Dorsey took a corner over a pass rusher. Who was considered by most at the time as the better choice.
If I see a Ray Lewis type player or an Ed Reed. I have no position bias.
I like guys who can impact a game.
Dorsey has shown in the past to go against the grain.
All I am saying is if he loves a guy and has to move up some to get that guy; now may be the time.
That scenario could very well be in the second round as well.
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j/c:
I really like the idea of moving up in round 2 or 3. Here are some guys that were drafted in round 2. Drew Brees, Michael Thomas, our own Nick Chubb, Calais Campbell, LeVeon Bell, Shady McCoy, Gronk, Eric Weddle, Anquan Boldin, Andre Whitworth, Clinton Portis, Jordy Nelson, etc. I agree. Those are big time value rounds. You can get big time talent in those rounds. After that you can still get that, but it is more luck then anything else. Once a player has been passed over 2-3 times, it means that all the teams felt the player was a mid round guy and had them rated as such.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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But Dorsey took a corner over a pass rusher.
No buts...Dorsey took a corner who we had ranked higher than Chubb (DE) but the reason I think he was ranked higher is that we were in a Desperate need of a Cover Corner and our DC thrives on blitzing and his D could only be functional with good Cover Corners so that we could rush more than 4.
That has a big part of what Dorsey did. It wasn't philosophy wise that he chose CB over DE. It had to do with the team and our Needs to get over the 1-31 past. Its what makes Dorsey an excellent GM. He doesn't go by his ego. He goes by what his coaches need to be good. Doesn't matter if its his choice of Coach or not. He saw a duty he had for the team. He chose a player that would be good for any system, "BUT" most of all we desperately needed a Cover Corner.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I’m all for whatever makes the most sense ... up or down ... Its a FLUID situation ... depends on whose available and what it will cost us to move up ... I dont put much if any stock into mock drafts .... yesterday i went and looked at some ... did not like what I saw ... *L* ... The first 5 i looked at had us taking 3 WR’s and 2 LT’s ... only name mentioned twice was Metcalf ... a different WR and two different LT’s were the other 3 picks .. finally on the 6th one we took a CB ... If thats how the draft goes .. i hope we move up ... i want a D player .... if we do go O i’d like it to be a LT but i really want to go D ... taking a WR that high makes no sense to me .. i dont care how much a shot he has at being a STUD ... just like last year i wanted Ward over Chubb as he was a MUCH MUCH BIGGER need ... Whatever King John does i’ll Trust ... he’s EARNED IT ... Our team is in a position where were ready to win NOW ... our team needs way more help on D than on O ... especially considering the weather in Cleveland in January ... do we really want to have to try and outscore everyone in January on the lake ... If the actual draft breaks down like the first 5 mocks i saw ... PLEASE TRADE UP for one of the DLman or the CB Greedy dude ... 
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Resigning Robinson and Perriman or not will go a long way in determining who we draft at #17. Sign them both and I believe JD goes Defense. Not signing Robinson, I could see JD possibly taking an OT in the first round around that slot - Taylor, Dillard, Ford, and Little - if he thinks they are the BPA.
Here's hoping we resign both and go D with that first pick - DT, DE, CB or LB.
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The Browns currently sit at #17.
The cost to get above ten maybe too heavy.
But say 11 or down to 17 is there a player who could be in those slots worth moving up for?
Free agency is still in the future. So this is a little sketchy to try.
However, we do not have a screaming need. We have some good draft capital. There are guys on the roster that could be traded.
Does anyone see a guy that may be below ten that could really impact the Browns? We would give up #17 what else would have to go?
We could, but realistically a move up in round 1 is long odds. I think moving up in the 2nd is a good possibility seeing we have two 3rd round picks. Package our 3rd rounders to move back in to the 2nd....something like that.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 02/18/19 06:33 AM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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With the addition of Richardson the Browns have the luxury of taking a DT injured player that they can wait on.
Jeffery Simmons by all accounts is top ten maybe a top five player.
Hard to say how far his injury will drop him. I highly doubt that he would fall far out of the first round.
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/the-precedent-set-for-jeffery-simmons-injury
But he could drop to late first or go into the second. In that case the Browns would have the ammo to possibly move up to get him.
They have trade assets in Duke and Ogbah and extra draft picks.
Rare for us to be in this position. But Richardson is not a long term guy. His contract is front loaded. Two years guaranteed salary.
https://overthecap.com/player/sheldon-richardson/2194/
So in his second year he could be a strong rotational guy while Simmons is coming on.
That would give us two good young tackles.
It would be something I would look at closely.
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Move Up?
For who?
Bonefish, A rotational, injured, defensive line, is a hard sell to me.
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Simmons would sit for this year because of the ACL.
Richardson would start all this year. Next year depending upon performance Richardson would rotate behind Ogunjobi and Simmons.
Makes sense "if" the perceived talent of Simmons is there.
Just asking if you read the entire post?
I tried to make it clear with the links.
Move up for Jeffrey Simmons.
Three man rotation. Keeping all fresh.
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Jeffery Simmons offers an exceptional blend of run defense and pass rush. If anybody can figure out how to maneuver into position to draft Simmons without jeopardizing the rest of our draft Dorey is the guy I want pulling the levers.
Part to the responsibility of a GM is taking the long view. Drafting Simmons is not only about 2019. Simmons is an investment that will pay dividends as Cleveland is in the SB window. Richardson is what, 28? At the end of Richardson's deal Simmons will be 24 or 25 years old.
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In many ways it fits perfect.
ACL? Doctors answer that. After the first year you are breaking in an injured guy. Rotating with a very good vet is good for both.
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Part to the responsibility of a GM is taking the long view. Drafting Simmons is not only about 2019. Simmons is an investment that will pay dividends as Cleveland is in the SB window. Richardson is what, 28? At the end of Richardson's deal Simmons will be 24 or 25 years old. Not that it pertains to this draft pick per say, but it is worth noting I believe to point out that's exactly what he did with last years second round pick in Corbett. So there is a precedent that Dorsey is willing to make such a move with an eye on the future.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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True, but this team is in a very different place than last year's team.
I think that we are a playoff team this year and a true super bowl contender next season. If Dorsey thinks we have a shot at the super bowl this year, he may not want to red shirt our 2nd round draft pick this year. Even if he agreees with me, he might prefer a guy next season with a years's experience under his belt.
Is buttcheeks one word?
Or should I spread them apart?
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It's certainly a possibility either way. I hope that Dorsey is looking at getting superior talent assembled for the long term sustainability of the team. ie..... I would rather have a top 10 talent drafted in round 2 for the best overall talent of the team for the long haul than settle for a player of lesser talent for right now.
To me it would seem that you feel Dorsey may wish to take a player than can help right now by sacrificing a much better player for the long term success of a position. While it's possible I certainly hope that's not the perspective he sees things from.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The Cleveland Browns will be visiting with Mississippi State defensive tackle Jeffery Simmons during the lead up to the 2019 NFL Draft.
The Cleveland Browns have made it a priority to add talent to the defensive line this off-season, but they still may not be done building up the defensive front.
During Mississippi State’s pro day on Wednesday, defensive tackle Jeffery Simmons said he will be visiting with the Cleveland Browns at some point at the pro day, according to NFL Network’s Tom Pelissero.
Simmons was projected to be a first-round selection in the 2019 NFL Draft. However, after tearing his ACL during training for the NFL Combine, there is a chance Simmons may slide into the second round of the draft.
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Not suggesting he take a far inferior player. But a similar player who can contribute right away. There are a lot of questions associated with Simmons. What happened in the incident? I'm sure Dorsey gets way more details than any of us. How Bad was the knee injury? Will he be the same player post recovery? Will we need to trade up for him if we want him?
If Dorsey see him as far superior to anyone else available then of course take him. But if a player is available who is considered in the same tier talent wise than that player might be the better choice.
Is buttcheeks one word?
Or should I spread them apart?
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I want instant gratification as much as anyone, but if Simmons is there, I wouldn't mind the pick. Before he got hurt I was wanting him at 17. After, I didn't want him there, but at 49 it could pay big dividends long term.
Just have to wait and see what is there. We can draft a starting SS at 49 or a good corner.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Move up...I really don't wish us to do so big time. If coming close to 49 lets say 40ish and we got a guy that we are targeting and would not want to lose him I hope we would move up in that regard. But no big time give up to move back into the first!
jmho - it all depends on targets and who we like. If we see a top 5 guy I guess in our War room and he is there still at 20...I can see that as a possibility but we would be giving up next year first round pick plus more!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I can certainly get on board with you there. But if the injury checks out as typical, it would be hard for me to believe that caliber of athlete would be there at #49. It'd actually hard for me to believe Simmons will be there at #49. Now if we're talking a trade up scenario, I have no idea how far up we would have to move up to get him, so Dorsey may easily see the cost isn't worth the risk.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,108 |
A radio sports talk show i was listening to (i think moviing the chains) said they were hearing that simmons would definitely go top 20, possibly as high as 10. Even with the injury
Is buttcheeks one word?
Or should I spread them apart?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,295
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 79,295 |
I would see #20 more likely than #49.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 |
If Dorsey wants to trade up, I want to trade up.
If Dorsey wants to trade down, I want to trade down.
If Dorsey wants Simmons, I want Simmons.
If Dorsey wants Pee Wee Herman, I want Pee Wee Herman.
SB
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,431
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,431 |
Ok....I put my foot down. No Pee Wee Herman as a draft choice.
As UDFA, Ok
As far Simmons, I really liked the kid. All along I thought it a long shot he fell to 17, but you read boards and possibilities, then you start thinking it possible.
I live in SEC country. I have for near 50 years now. I watch a lot of SEC football. Every time Miss St. was on, Simmons stood out. I mean Warren Sapp type stand out. At times the guy OWNED from guard to guard.
He's a load.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season 2019 NFL Draft Move Up
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