DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum WR room ... Why exactly is it we need one? ...

Periman is the key. If he signs I can see standing pat. Especially since I like both Willies and Ratley.

As you say, Landry is a top 10-15 receiver in the league. I think Callaway can be that as well. Add in the other guys and there is nothing wrong with our receivers.

Oh, and Baker...he is accurate and seems to throw a catchable ball. I don't see any problem moving the ball through the air with who we have. If Perriman walks, we will probably make a move in FA. Not so much the draft.

Unless there is another value there to be had like we got with Landry, I actually don't see us bringing in another veteran WR, at all. If there is a good, younger WR that runs good routes and has good hands available to us for nominal cost, then I can see us pulling that trigger.

I think that since we now have a QB that elevates the WR's, we're sitting pretty and unless we have a glaring need at the position, we aren't going to address it with free agency. It's my belief that this position is officially in the "reload from the Draft" mode. We have a good number of options at the position now; we don't have to panic.

Um. Landry is a slot receiver. Fitzgerald didn't move to the slot until later in his career, I believe.

Remember what Pit said in another thread about when a player puts on the Browns uniform fans think of him as one of the best at his position..?

That seems to be what's going on here with Landry.

Landry does what he does best from the slot. He is average at best anywhere else. He is definitely not a top 15 WR in the league and most likely finish outside the top 20. If you're talking slot receivers, then sure, Landry may be top 15. I'm not ignorant on his talent, he is what he is. He's not even our best receiver. You can "lol" all you like, but I'm not wrong. I mean with all do respect, I would LOVE for you to be right on Jarvis, but nothing says he's as good as you say he is... That's unfortunate.

I actually like Higgins in the slot as well. He makes Landry expendable. Anything short of winning the Super Bowl, I don't see Landry here after next year. But yeah, we'll see.


I agree with Humphries in a Welker/Edelman role and I thought that would be a good place for him.

I'm ok with Perriman, but I do think we need either Perriman or a Tyrell Williams signing to round out the WR corp. Could draft one at some point as well... we'll see what KJ comes up with...

Landry was #20 in yards last year.

The way Baker spreads the ball around, we are unlikely to see a top 10 receiver.

Landry has made a great career at getting you 8 yards on a 3rd and 10. I'd be comfortable saying he's the 4th best WR in the AFCN.

Well thought out and I can't disagree.

When I said not through the draft, my meaning was early in the draft. I could see using a 4th or 5th rounder on the position. I just don't see us going for a Metcalf in the 1st round, even if he can become very good.

... that statement tells me u know nothing about me .. nothing ....

Lets ask Pit ... YO PIT ... were u reffering to me in any way,shape or form when u made that comment? ... he’s an honest guy ... he’ll tell the truth ... i’d be STUNNED if I’m one of the posters he was referring to when he posted that ... that shoe don’t come close to fitting my foot ... PIT am i wrong?



I’d agree with that ... 100% .. just like Fitz always has ... he was a “slot reciever” before there was the phrase slot reciever ... there’s not a lot of #1 corners that can cover VG ... he EXCELS from the wide out positions also ...

Vers posted a clip when we first traded for him ... BILLICHECK was scene MULTIPLE TIMES FLIPPING out about why they couldn’t stop VG ... MULTIPLE TIMES ... there entire game plan ws to stop VG .. THEY COULDN’T ...

He is not a true #1 cause he lacks the burner speed .. but he is MUCH BETTER than u or Memph think he is ... u menZas think he’s OVERPAID ... that’s WHACK ...



So your saying hes a top 15 slot reciever ... ... thats pretty generous of u to concede that .... your emberassing yourself dawg ... good god ...

There’s not MANY recievers in the league that could have made the catch he did against the jets that got this engine rolling ... and there is less than a handful IF THAT many that could have made the catch he made against the RATS on the last series of the last game .. it was a tough enough catch before u consider the db was draped all over him .... that was ONE OF THE BEST CATCHES and the HARDEST CATCH i saw made all year ... yup ... he’s average OK ..

PS. Blocking is a part of playing WR ... u do realize that ... no? ... there is no better blocking WR in the league .. there maybe a few as good but NONE BETTER ...



Ya, u are .. and u prove it in your very NEXT STATEMENT ... it screams VG derangement syndrome ...



Who is then? .. its who is .. NOT who could be at some point ...

VGDS ...



Thanks for your permission, i felt bad doing it but now that i have your permission i’ll be able to do it guilt free .. trust me, when u make moronic statements like the one u just did ... i’ll for damm sure ....



Ya ... the 4 pro bowls in 5 years are just a FLUKE ... flat out FLUKE ... u got me again ... ...



WOW .. thats very enlightening that u think Higgins has the skill set of a slot reciever ... pretty SHOCKING actually ... i disagree with u on that as strongly as i do your incredibly beyond low opinion of VG ... WOW ...

U think VG will make it through next year or be a mid-season cut? ... ...

Just curious ... what does winning a SB have to do with it? ...



IF we re-sign Perriman what role does Williams fill? .. we have two WR’s that all ready fill his role? .. we don’t need a big tall fast guy with questionable hands to go along with Calloway and Perriman ...

I don’t understand that .. we all have ready have the TALL red zone option in Njoku ... and strangely enough ... Tyrell never filled that role in SD before they got Mike Williams so I’mnot sure why u guys think he would fill it here ...

I don’t see Tyrell at all ... MAYBE when Perriman walks ...

Isn't that a wonderful thing?!

Receivers can get complacent because the QB never throws them the ball. Our guy chucks it to everybody, keeping them all on their toes.

Our QB knows that to get the best out of them, he keeps them in the game and on their toes.

You want receivers running routes expecting the ball to be thrown their way, not being surprised when it is thrown their way.

Get open and Bake is going to put it a foot in front your mask.... Or on it, or a foot behind, depending on where it needs to be thrown.

I'm not bad-mouthing Baker [God forbid] but this is a bit of a stretch.

First off, I saw guys open on the field that Baker missed. You could see Landry breaking open on crossing routes repeatedly and Baker forcing the ball down the field into coverage.

Also, he is extremely accurate a lot of the time. However, he also throws a lot of inaccurate passes when his footwork gets messed-up. Passes often sail high and wide.

I was impressed w/what Baker did on the field last year and he has a very good chance of being good, but I think a lot of things are being exaggerated and misrepresented in regards to just how well he sees the field and how consistent his accuracy is.

Cue the character attacks from device and others...LOL

??????????????


Landry has 481 catches in his career ...... 26 for TD and 264 for 1st downs.

That means that roughly 60% of his catches go for 1st downs.

Anyway............I still hope Dorsey acquires a big-bodied WR who can go up and high point the ball in traffic and also break tackles and get huge chunks of yardage after the catch. I still really like Butler from Iowa State.

You have the splits on those numbers? The major knock with Landry throughout his career is that he gets his stats when teams are playing prevent defense.

Oh geez... you sure do like to put words in mouths... is that the only way you can make a case or win an argument?

I never said Pit was specifically referring to you. But go ahead and call on your cronies. Lord knows Pit loves a good character bashing. Bring him on in...

Fitz isn't just a slot receiver. And that's the difference. Jarvis is a long ways from the hall of fame. I wouldn't compare the two. Landry wil never be as good as Fitz. Try not to embarrass yourself. Oh, and your boy VICE GRIPS has more fumbles in 5 years than Fitz has in his career and that's what, 14 years... Maybe you should find a new nickname for him.

And you say hes much better than I think he is, but don't forget, he did exactly what I said he would. And it's not nearly what we paid for... hence the overpayment. Unless you think 81 catches for 970 yds, and a bunch of blocks is worth the price tag.

Maybe you have a lower standard for greatness. I guess I can't fault you for that.


Yes, Higgins is very good out of the slot. I am hopeful we sign him long term and that would make Landry expendable. And you're right Super Bowl probably doesn't have anything to do with it. Landry is probably gone either way but he should be here for the 2019 season.

I also didn't say I wanted both Perriman and Williams. Read. If we don't resign Perriman, I think Tyrell Williams could be an option.

But continue with your crusade...

Dude, you are so far gone...

It's actually less than 55% and that's not very good.... eh, but who's counting?

Would prefer you stick to football posts as you demand of others, but since you brought it up, as far as I have gone at least I still have a ways to go until I reach your level.

Can you provide a link to people saying this?

Now in 2017, he was used in a really ineffective manner, but when a coach puts a player in a poor position, is that on the player, or the coach?

Here are his career splits:

Jarvis Landry Career Splits | Pro-Football-Reference.com
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LandJa00/splits/

If you go down to his down/distance splits, you'll find his 3rd/4th quarter stats.

3rd and 4th quarter vs 1st and 2nd are better. 1st downs are much better. Yards/catch are better.

Most of his 1st downs come when trailing, which tells me that his teams spent a lot of time trailing.

Anyway, I'd like to see quotes that claim that he gets most of his catches vs prevent defense, because I have truly never heard that.

You keep forgetting that the Sashi guys never complained about Kenny Britt but do complain about Jarvis Landry. That is how they roll.

Methinks they are full of crap.

You just officially became a waste of time ... REPLYING TO MY POST where I said he was a top 15 WR ... U SAY IN YOUR REPLY TO ME ... Pit made the statement that when someone puts on the browns uni they automatically become the best at their position ,,, then U SAY ... right here in this thread in the POST I REPLIED TO that “this appears to be whats going on here” ... not verbatim ,,,,

Then u accuse me of putting words in your mouth ... ..... U HAVE NO SHAME ...

I quit reading there ,,, like i said ,,,, YOUR CLUELESS when it comes to VG and CLEARLY HAVE VGDS ...

Not wasting another second posting to u on VG in this thread ...

Thanks for posting the splits. Like I thought, he does best when his team is behind in the 4th.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/jarvis-landrys-value-part-i

Part 1 talks about how Miami's offense did better when Jarvis isn't the focal point.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/jarvis-landrys-value-part-ii

More about his tires routes specifically.

Key part:

This table is sorted by descending ALEX, and that column alone really explains why Landry is at a disadvantage in generating efficient plays for his offense. His ALEX is minus-2.7, meaning his average target is thrown 2.7 yards short of the first-down marker. The average ALEX for the other 27 receivers is plus-2.9, or 2.9 yards beyond the first-down marker.

That's my funniest post about the situation, but my first posts about Britt is that offering Pryor a one year deal would've been the right move.

Oh dear.

This place is funny sometimes...

Some of the reactions and conversations on here are just too comical. Here's a conversation I have (and see) on here way too often...

Me: I think Sashi did a good job.
Them: LOL! If you think Dorsey sucks you need your head examined!
Me: I never said Dorsey sucks. I said I think Sashi did a good job.
Them: I can't have this conversation with you anymore. You're wasting my time so consider this my last post on this topic. Bye!
Another them: Yeah, can't talk to the Sashi cult, they don't understand how good Dorsey is.


I literally just had this same conversation about Jarvis Landry.

Drugs help.

Ya ... thats the answer ... problem is u actually think it is and makes for a better quality of life ... ...

I've actually been sober since January, but sometimes I read your posts and it makes me want to find the closest aerosol spray... *L*

No, I certainly wasn't talking about you or as it pertained to a top level talent in a player like Vice Grips. I was talking about some fans who take mid level players and try to elevate them to top star quality because they are wearing a Browns uniform.

The fact that Baker spreads the ball around doesn't lessen the talent of Landry. As a matter of fact, when it comes to Vice Grips it seems the opposite of what I previously said is the case. A few people are trying to diminish the talent of Vice Grips because he is wearing a Browns uniform.

... that was funny ...

Hi Device ... Hi Memph .... have a good day dawgs .... and just for u Memph ...

LETS GOOOOOOOooooooooooooo ....

How much is the talent of the player, and how much is scheme? I bet his numbers for this past season were much better that his 5 year average.

Did you see any Dolphins games in 2017? They used Landry almost exclusively as a dump off kind of receiver. It was all scheme, designed to help their QB who spent no time with the team prior to Tannehill's injury.

Further, have you watched the Dolphins in the Landry's time there?

Let's look at their team numbers:

2014: 10.3 yards/reception (Tannehill)
2015: 11.6 yards/reception (Tannehill)
2016: 11.8 yards/reception (Tannehill, Moore)
2017: 10.2 yards/reception (Cutler, Moore, Fales)

They weren't exactly burning up the passing game; any of their receivers. You could go look at how the Browns did over that same time, with our 73 (or so) QBs taking snaps.


Let's look at last year for the Browns, even with a rookie QB still gaining acquaintance with his receivers for a good part of the year after having no training camp with most of them.

12.1 yards/reception was the team average. What was Landry's? 12.0. Consistent with the average of the team. His numbers also went up in the final 5 games of the year, as he continued to gain chemistry with Baker. (21 catches, 335 yards, 15.9 yards/catch)

You mentioned that many of Landry's 1st downs over his career were in the 4th quarter. Of course more would be there for a team that was behind a lot. Teams with a huge lead will run more often. Teams that are behind throw more. Teams with a 4th quarter lead tend to to run more often to kill clock.

Just a few thoughts.

What if we don’t re-sign Perriman ... like i said ... i’m Not real optimistic with him caue of who his agent is ...

What r your thoughts then? ...

IF we do re-sign Perriman what is that the two Browns bring to the room that we don’t all ready have? ... why them so early in the draft? ... what is is u like about them and what do thy bring to the room is we re-sign Perriman? ...

Who has said anything about lessening Landry's talent? His talent (regardless of where people land on him) is static whether there are two WRs on the field or 20. The issue is his value is decreasing in terms of production. That makes overpaying him more of an issue for people that questioned it the first place. Please try to keep up.

But you and Pit keep on making things up about what people say. Your guys' "talent" in that regard is astounding.

Did you read the articles?

And I've watched too many Dolphins games over the past 6 years, which is exactly why I said he does a great job at getting you 8 yards when you need 10.

Up til two years ago i watched every snap in the entire NFL for the previous decade give or take a few years ... then two years ago i watched almost every snap of rthe dolphins games cause i so enjoyed watching VG ...

Your coco puffs ... dude was ALL THEY HAD ON O and he was a 1st down machine ... FIGHTING for every yard ....

Your correct ... he had better numbers in the 2nd half of games when they were down ... SHOCKING that when teams are down they pass more ... there one of only a few teams that do that ... ...

U either didnt watch his games or U have no clue what your watching ... i watched some really bad football just to watch him as i loved his spirit and fight ... he flew under the radar cause of where he played .. but I KNEW he was one of the bright new talents in the NFL ....

since u claim to have been “sober” since January ... go re-watch them ... maybe your mind was too clouded for his first 4 years in the league and it fogged your memory ...

You might have a point if you weren't always blotto. It's not hard to imagine that a WR does better against prevent defense than when his team is in the game.

How have you watched every snap and still think Landry is a top 15 WR? That's literally a thought a drunk would have who can only see clearly when looking at the bottom of their glass. He's not even top 3 in the AFC North and you think there's only 12 other WRs better than him? That's such a joke.

Top 15, top 25, does it matter?

Any way you cut it he is a good receiver.

It doesn't really matter what he makes. If and when it does, we can deal with it at that time.

Yes, especially if they're being paid triple their worth.

imo best way to value anything is by comparing the opportunity cost. I always thought that Joe Jurvicious was a great WR, but I would never pay him #1 money. When you pay someone a lot of money, you need to make sure that they can actually do the job. otherwise you're just sinking money into a problem.

On what down? The overwhelming majority of his catches go for a 1st down. (264/481)

He is great at converting 1st downs. You don't do that when you get fewer yards than needed for a conversion.

In his career, he had 481 catches and among those are 264 1st downs. What receivers do you think do better than that, right off the top of your head, over the same 5 years Landry has been in the NFL? How about Larry Fitzgerald? (268)Julio Jones? Best receiver in the game, with consistently good QB play? (379) I would almost bet that he's the best. Deandre Hopkins? I would expect that he's near the top with 346. Mike Evans? 314. Antonio Brown? 367. Does Landry have elite numbers? No. What kind of QBs was he working with, and what was the scheme? I wonder what his numbers would look like if he had worked with Roelisberger, or Brees, for the 1st 4 years of his career?

TY Hilton? 270. Robert Woods? 196. Brandin Cooks? 213. Keenan Allen? 216. Adam Thielen? 189.

The crazy thing is that some of the same guys knocking Landry are turning around and telling us how good Devalve is.

You mean yo have FACTS that PROVE Landry is a first down machine!!!

That should be impossible shouldn't it!???