DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum My oh My how the landscape of the AFC North has changed in 12 short months!

Yes, they did .... in the 1st half when we looked lost for some reason they put 20 on us ... in the 2nd half we adjusted and they scored 6 .. the next week the bolts who had gotten schooled by Lamar a mere 2 or 3 weeks earlier completely shut him down ... the book on Lamar is out ... if he doesn’t learn to pass the novelty is over ... IF he does learn to pass he has to stay healthy ...

We were very very young last year ... on D we had two rookies that were major contributors throughout the 2nd half of the season ... on O we had 3 rookies that were major parts of the O the 2nd half of the season .... it was also the entire secondaries 1st year playing together and only 4 of the O starters had played together before ...

Lamar was a rookie as was Bake ... it was a lot easier for Lamar to mesh with the O since they ran the ball almost exclusively ... we ran an O that relied much more on cohesion and familiarity ... we were a - 2 in turnovers ... all 3 picks ... bake will improve there and he will clean his footwork up ... dude works his ass off .... he’ll get it fixed ...

We also had our obligatory missed 45 yard or so missed FG ...

Were going to Improve a lot more than them through experience and the fact we have way more cap space and more draft picks ..

They also LOST THE OZ ... don’t downplay that bro ... he’s been one of the best for years ...



f mentioned coaching changes for all the teams ... its part of the equation .... it was not meant to be a negative .... not at all .... I think it makes all the sense in the world .. and hes one of the best ... hes very good with “running” QB’s ... his problem is this time he has a running QB that can’t pass ...

With 3 turnovers and a misssed field goal we put up 24 on there great D ... not being sarcastic for a change, they are a great D .... just through experience and playing together for a year and the talent we will add ours will improve way more than theirs .... theirs will still be better ... but ours will close the gap a lot more and our O will improve also and last year we hung 24 on them in that game ...



On the surface .. yes it is ... i mentioned in my post that Ben took over the O ... their OC is his puppet ... he put up his best #’s ever i think ... he also threw 100 more passes than he did the year before, he threw 675 last year .... he only had one other year with over 600 passes and that was 608 .... his yards per completion was also its lowest ...

Your right what i said doesn’t make sense ... I also remember remarking during the year that he was missing passes by a lot and missing some he never missed before ....

Maybe its wishful thinking on my part ... but thats what my eyes told me last year .... there is no denying he is getting old ... he was contemplating retirement last year ... its getting real close ...



Ya, i also used 2 or 3 other stats to demonstrate how bad our D really was ... i didn’t use them lnaked and alone like the folks my saying is meant for do .. ...

Our D will improve ... see my rats take for experience/familiarity and youth ... we also have waypmore cap space/more draft picks and were now a HOT DESTINATION ...



I don’t know about loaded but i do like what they will have left ... i like Washington ... he looked decent in his limited use last year ... they got Eli Rogers back at the end of the year ... bummed he chose them over us ... it made sense at the time but i was bummed as were u ... I also like /Switzer but him and Eli are basically clones ...

Bro .. u don’t replace an Antonio Brown ... w/o him they have one dude with EXTREMELY BAD HANDS to take the top off a D .. i like JuJu a lot ... but he is no speedster by any stretch ... neither is washington or Eli ... and like i said ... u don’t replace an AB ... he’s been the best reciever in the NFL over the last 5 years ... its OK ... U can admit it ...



I was bound to get something right ... *L* ...

King John is the architect bro ... based on how he’s leaving no stone unturned in re-building the team ... pretty sure there will be multiple docks big enough to fit 3 or 4 aircraft carrier sized ships docked at the same time ... i’m also hearing rumors there will be subs with big windows in for viewing ... thats just a rumor at this point .. *L* ....

Clem no worries ... when your ready we will have swim lanes also ... just let me know when your ready, i’ll Come join u for the swim out ....

Fate, i’m just the obnoxious, opioniated jackass dawg with the loud mouth that has never been afraid to go way out on a limb ... this is a new limb for me .. in the past its always been the LIMB OF NEGATIVITY .... in this case, i believe I’m on a very very solid limb that I like way more than the negative ones I’ve always been on ..

LETS GOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo

You could be right about most things and even everything, but for the sake of discussion...



I see that comment a lot. I don't know if it true or not. I think he is very competitive. I think he desires to be the best. I just haven't seen too much evidence of him being this extremely hard worker. In fact, it bothers me that he said he isn't going to work w/a qb guru in the off-season. He dissed those types of coaches and says he knows how to throw. I don't think that is wise and that type of an attitude isn't very wise. There are some things he needs to work on in regards to his fundamentals, especially his footwork when facing pressure.



Don't the Rats have young players? Can't they improve?



Will losing him really affect their record this upcoming year?




Even w/him digressing, he is still the best qb in the division. That will change over time, but I'm not as confident as you that it will be this upcoming year.



You don't believe they will receive compensation for him?

I think on the surface much of this tracks. But a few thoughts. Freddy to me is the biggest question mark. I still feel uneasy about him in the big chair. But as I've said, I trust dorsey so we'll see. I think we have tons more talent than any point since the return, but I still think we are several pieces away, particularly on defense to being a serious threat. We've all seen elite qbs drag their teams to the playoffs. I believe if Baker takes that next step thats a real possibility. The steelers have been a perceived decline for about 15 years now..yet they keep winning. They are still the best in the AFCN until we can beat them consistently and convincingly. I feel that time is coming shortly. This draft and FA is probably the most important since the return. We are at that threshold where we need to take the last step out of the basement and this is when we have to do it. This is by far, outside of maybe 2008 season, the most anticipated season since return. And we all know what happened in 2008

That would be bittersweet for sure

I apologize if I masked my excitement . I am soooooo excited and giddy with the amount of young talent we have(thanks Sashi :] ) I think last year we proved we are obviously better than the Bungles, seem to be pretty evenly matched with The Ravens, but we just need to get over that mental hump of beating the Steelers.

The only one I think people could be thinking of is RG3. I don't know that he regressed, however, as much as his offense changed. He was forced to become more of a pocket passer and that's just not who he is. He was coerced to be a pocket passer here. I think he may have found his niche in Baltimore with Jackson if they run the offense to suit them.

He was hurt towards the end of his rookie season too

I wouldn't be overly excited about Hunt. Andy Reid has a history of making running backs look great. While Hunt is talented, the 3rd stringer didn't look much different when he got his carries.

I agree with a lot of this...

And although I'm on board with what you said about the Bengals, I'm not as certain as you that there's no way hell they don't stink next year.

I think the offseason can play a role and yes, it looks bad because they're still searching for a DC. However, they supposedly have the next Sean McVay. Maybe or maybe he doesn't pan out. I don't think they're as bad as we think...


They still have a serviceable QB. They have 2 of the best WR in the division. They have a top 5 RB. Their offensive line is not awful... Their two seniors Cordy Glenn and Clint Boling are good linemen. Price will hopefully (for their sake) be better in year two. He and Redmond are still very young with room for improvement.

The defense sucked, but they still have Geno Atkins. Carlos Dunlap who are right around 30. Aging, but I don't know that they need a rebuild. They have two good safeties, one is a promising rookie. Their corners even seem to be ok....

I think a changing of the guard could be good for this team. While, with that owner, I don't think they'll ever be a great franchise, they still have some very viable pieces. I just wouldn't be surprised if we see a leap with the Bengals this year....

With that, however, if I were to rank where I think the division finishes in 2019, it's:

1. Browns
2. Ravens
3. Steelers
4. Bengals

not even close.. Ware is a average back. think the chiefs rather have a guy with 2 tds or the guy who had 14 in 11 games

I think he's referring to Damien Williams.... He may not be the explosive receiver Hunt is out of the backfield, but Williams ran just as well if not better than Hunt.

even so...nowhere near as productive as hunt. guess we will see next year

I wouldn't use the term sophomore slump, but there have been a lot of qbs who regressed after starting out good. Off the top of my head......RGIII, Derek Carr, Sanchez, Kaepernick, Sanchez, Cassell, Josh Freeman, Dante Coulpepper, Matt Schuab.

I don't think that will happen to Baker, but I do think it is too early to develop a career conclusion about a qb after just one year.

you are what your record says you are...

don't believe you own hype.

ABSOLUTELY ...

- they don’t have near as many young as us going into year 2 especially and they don’t have as many going into year 3 ... were extremely young ...

- there D has been playing with each other and in the same system for years now ... our secondary was re-built and we added Avery ...

- our O was full of pups at the skill position and our recievers not named Higgins had zero chemistry with Bake ... we got rid of the dysfunctional duo at the 1/2 way mark ..

- there D can only improve so much .. they have no holes that i know of .. ours has a few very noticeable holes .. its a heck of a lot easier for us to improve on D ...



IMO it definetly will ... there gonna draft at least one player they will be expecting to contribute if not more ... they will be re-signing there own like Mosley and signing other FA’s ...

We’ll never know on this ... with Oz knowing he was retiring ... it wouldn’t shock me if he allowed the future of the team to draft Lamar Jackson ... it sure as heck wasn’t Harbough and i don’t see Oz going there ... pure spec on my art but it makes sense ...




Maybe thats my knew found optimism in this team and org ... Bake may not catch him but the year of experience will help immensely ... Bake SHOULD improve much more than Ben .. Ben’s reached his cieling .. Bake had zero chemistry with our recievers other than Higgins .. that’ll help a bunch right there ..





Sure they’ll get compensation ... it won’t be anyone or any picks near what AB brings to the team or his level of talent ... i just posted a blurb saying they may have to settle for a day 2 pick .. they’ll get more than that IMO but there is no rookie in the draft thats going to come in and be near as good as AB ...and they will get no current player near as talented as AB is ...

I’m suprised your bringing this up .. that one seems pretty clear to me ..

This is not hype based ... its TALENT BASED ... up til last year i was one of a very few always putting a wet rag on the hype ... cause it was baseless when u looked at the roster ... not anymore ... it is TALENT BASED ...

I been saying it since last September when i started the Optimism thread before the season ...

This is DIFFERENT!!!!

Reid has done this in Philly as well. His backs are always productive. His schemes are unreal for pass catching running backs.

Hunt is a very good back and while Williams put up big numbers, the word out of KC was that teams were able to change their scheme once Hunt was cut. Teams had to game-plan against him.

In my opinion, Hunt is a premier NFL back.

Bro, I tried really hard to clarify my comments. I said I was cautiously optimistic. When was the last time that occurred? I said you might be right about most of the things or maybe even all of them. I said something like "...for the sake of discussion..."

I'm trying to talk football here and get away from the mob's constant Sashi/Hue crap. There aren't exactly a lot of football discussion going on that doesn't involve Sashi and/or Hue.

Just trying to converse about football, Diam.

I do have a question for you, though. Amari Cooper netted a first round pick for the Raiders. I understand that he is younger and the Steelers are kind of in a tough spot because the AB thing has been so public, but Cooper isn't a pimple on AB's butt in regards to production in the NFL.

So...........considering all of that, what would you trade for AB? I'm not talking from a Cleveland Brown's perspective because no way the Steelers trade him to a division rival, but what about the Packers? What about the Bears? The 49ers? The Cowboys? The Panthers? I would say the Patriots, but no way does Pitt trade him to them. That would be worse than trading him to us or the Rats.

Remember this..............it only takes one team to make an offer of a first round pick.

I was going to ask that same question, would you give #17 and one of the 3rds for AB? I dont know his contract situation but I would .

Now I will say this, I dont think the Steelers will trade him at all, just not how they operate . They will let his azz sit, just like Bell and say " next up"

I don't think there is any way they trade him to us. Despite what some posters on here think, the guy would be a huge asset to a team because he is unbelievably productive.

There are many sides to the story in Pittsburgh. AB is a diva. He is wrong on many accounts. But man, Ben runs his mouth too much in the media and he dissed AB a couple of times. I think AB would have been okay if Ben had addressed him man-to-man, but he got pissed when Ben said those things in the media.

Sorry, I got off track on that last reply.

I think the trading of AB comes down to a few things.

1. Pit won't trade him to a division rival or the Pats.

2. They would probably want to trade him to a NFC team.

3. A team that is rebuilding and has a young, unproven QB will probably not trade for him.

4. A team that is established and has a proven qb and needs that one star to make a Super Bowl run will probably go after AB. I think the Packers make a lot of sense. The Colts would, too..........but, they are in the AFC. Not sure about that one. I get that Trubisky isn't all that established, but AB could really help the Bears. The Panthers are always looking to get Cam more weapons. The 49ers might be interested because they need to get Jimmy G some weapons. I think someone will bite. It only takes one team.

Back to the original premise of the thread ......

I think that the Browns have made huge progress this past season. I don't think that any AFCN team takes for granted that they will just roll in and beat the Browns, especially with another off-season rife with picks and cap space.

I really like what I saw from Baker this past season. His ability to place the ball is absolutely elite. His leadership is also elite. He gets his teammates to buy in completely. He has a lot of the special traits an elite QB has. Now it just remains to be seen if he can continue to grow. I think that he can, but I have long held that the biggest adjustment a young QB makes is the adjustment to what other teams start doing to stop him after they see the things he does well. We'll see how Baker responds to a league that has an off-season to really figure him out. I think he'll do well.

One other concern with a young QB is injury. Injuries can really derail a young QB's career .... or at least make it difficult to progress. The team around a young QB can also help create success or failure for a young QB. Coaching plays a part as well.

I do really like the team we have in place around Baker, especially from a player personnel and coaching standpoint. I think that Dorsey and co. will provide quality players, through free agency, the draft, and trades, and that the coaching staff will turn them into better players. I was extremely pleased that we kept Freddie, and then that he kept Henry. These 2 topped my coaching wish list.

I am strongly encouraged. Now we have to wait to see how it all turns out.

This is a tricky one. It is often elite. However, it is often not even close to elite. He misses a ton of throws. Most are high and wide when he misses.

I have noticed that his footwork is out of whack on a lot of those throws. It often comes when he is pressured. Thus far, he has benefited from very good protection, but that will not always be the case. I really wish he would go work w/one of those qb gurus this off-season, but it sounds like he is too good for that.

I wish someone would get in his ear that greats like P. Manning and Tom Brady continued to work on the small things even well into their 30s.

I agree. Look to the NFC. Most surely not to a AFC north team.

Dallas maybe?

My guess would be sometime before our return .. *L* .... it was so long ago I don’t remember it ... it been the first time I can remember they’ve given us reason too ...



I wasn’t questioning your motives or trying to pick a fight ... was just suprised casue to me this one is a real easy one ...



Thats a good question ... i pondered it overnight ...

The most logical team would be the rats if they weren’t in our division or had a QB that could throw worth a lick ... they got the GREAT D and he would fill a huge hole in their O ...

The bears would make the most sense IMO but they don’t have a #1 this year or next and i have no clue what there cap space is ... if they got the cap space I think a #2 would be plenty at this point ..

The Seahawks maybe? ... the eagles could be in play, they could use what they get after they sign and trade Foles ... pairing him with Galloday in Detroit would be sick .... not sure how much you’ve watched Galloday ... thats dude is a FLAT OUT STUD ... definetly the most underrated player in the game ... just like i used to watch the fish to watch VG i watched even worse football to watch Galloday ... unlike VG he’s a true #1 ... he’s SICK ...

The pats would be right there with the Bears as him and Brady could finish out there careers together ... like u said not a shot that happens ... the Jets would make sense ... the colts maybe

the Jags would be right there with the Bears as viable destinations but there gonna use their first rounder on a QB ... they may actually trade that to get Foles ...if they don’t use it to get Foles but get Foles ... i’d use my first rounder on AB if I were them ... the raiders maybe ...

OK ... lets say they get a #1 ... there not going to draft anyone that will make an impact like AB ... its going to be real hard to draft a player with the talent of AB at any position and if they got lucky and did it would take them a few years at least to get to AB’s level .... .. players with his skill don’t grow on trees ...

its why i wanted us to go after Mack in the worst way ... he has GENERATIONAL talent (AB does not have generational talent ... i’m Not suggestion that ... ) and Mack is young ... can u imagine if we got him ... WOW ... i got ripped for saying I’d give up two first rounders in a heartbeat for him ... there may not be a poster on the board that wouldn’t do that now ... *L* ...

I get your looking for discussion during the dead period ... i just don’t see how they don’t take a pretty big step back IF they trade him .... i’ll Believe that when it happens ...

Here‘s to hoping ....

Bro, I’m still giddy we got Hunt ... what a TALENT ... IF he gets his head on straight off the field ... MY OH MY .... *L* ...

I agree w this.

The only way Pitt would have to consider trading him within the AFCN is if an offer from there absolutely blows away any other offer. Say Cincy offers a first round pick and no one else in the league offers more than a conditional 3rd. Not saying this will happen, but under this scenario Pitt would have to think it over.

I heard on Mike and Wingo that Mr. Big Chest is also looking for a new contract, even though he just signed a new deal and some years left on it. This, and his recent antics, won't help his trade value. But, as you said, it only takes one team to offer a 1st.

I think it depends how serious Brown is about never playing for the Steelers again. If there's a chance he may play, maybe they won't trade him.

If it's certain they know he's not going to play for them, then I think it would be foolish for the steelers to just sit on him forcing him to sit out. I would think acquiring something, anything would be better than that.


It's just so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so much fun watching a team that is supposedly the model franchise for the NFL crash and burn. The millennials are killing that team and I love it. I hope they have fun.

I’m not sure if i posted it in the Free Agency thread or not ... Yesterday he tweeted out he wants 48 million gauranteed over 3 years ... i’ll go grab the blurb with the tweet in it ... he said it in a very “big chesty” it’s all about me way ...

Glad i went to grab the tweet that was actually instagram and i have no clue where i came up with the 48 mill over 3 years ... must of pulled it out of my butt ... *L* ...


ANTONIO BROWN
WR, PITTSBURGH STEELERS

In an Instagram Live (linked below), Antonio Brown said he is looking for guaranteed money from his next team.

"If your team got guaranteed money, they want to get to know me and work with me, tell them to call me," Brown said while doing cardio on Monday. Brown's current deal is set to pay him nearly $39 million in salary and bonuses over the next three years, but none of that money is guaranteed. Brown said over the weekend money had nothing to do with his desire to leave Pittsburgh, but it appears to be at least a factor. On Monday before this video was posted, NBC Sports' Peter King reported Brown's social media campaign has scared off at least one team. This video is unlikely to help.

SOURCE: Antonio Brown on Instagram
Feb 19, 2019, 9:59 AM

People can disagree I guess and I'm sure someone will be upset at this, but I don't think Baker needs a QB guru. He has excellent footwork and he doesn't have issues throwing the ball. If it ain't broke...

The assumption that Baker will sit twiddling his thumbs and work on nothing this offseason is silly. Let's not get caught up in this.

Nice.


The only reason I would want AB is so that he can enact revenge on his old team. The flip side is listening to Steeler fans try to mock us that we needed one of "their players" to reach success. The problem with AB is that he thinks he's the greatest. I don't think he is. regardless, just say no to AB.

Please just ignore it Vers ... reply to me or cap and leave it where it belongs .. in the dumpster ...

Bake will work with someone on his footwork ... it doesn’t ahve to be a QB guru in the off season .... hes too smart not too once he sees the tape and Freddie or our OC or Lindley point it out to him ...

He’ll get it fixed ....

j/c:

Five offseason moves to improve every team

Cleveland Browns

1. Lock up Damarious Randall and Joe Schobert. The Browns don't have any free agents who would justify the franchise tag, but they have a pair of key contributors hitting free agency next season in Randall and Schobert, two building blocks for the defense. They're both every-down contributors when healthy, and with $78.6 million in cap space, there's no reason for GM John Dorsey to delay locking up the heart of his defense for years to come.

If the Browns want to clear up cash, they could cut Jamie Collins, who doesn't play in nickel packages when Schobert and Christian Kirksey are healthy. Releasing Collins would save $10.5 million in cash and create $9.3 million in cap space. The Browns could insert Genard Avery, who flashed as a fifth-round pick, into the starting lineup for Collins.

2. Go after Trent Brown. After losing future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas to retirement, the Browns started the year with undrafted free agent Desmond Harrison at left tackle. Harrison struggled during the first half of the season, was scratched with an illness before Week 9, and didn't play another snap the rest of the way. They turned to former Rams second overall pick Greg Robinson, who delivered the best half-year of his pro career. Stats LLC suggests he didn't allow a single sack in his eight starts, although the Auburn product did commit six holding penalties.

Should the Browns bring back Robinson? Sure, if the price is right. Should they stop there? Absolutely not. They have the cap space to go after the best tackle on the market, and that's Brown, the Patriots left tackle who was impressive in his first season on the left side after starting his career as a right tackle for the 49ers. The 6-foot-8, 380-pound Brown certainly has the size to play on the blind side, and if Cleveland is going to invest serious money anywhere, left tackle makes the most sense. Dorsey, who used his first selection as a GM to draft Eric Fisher with the first overall pick for the Chiefs, isn't going to ignore the line.

3. Add another edge rusher. The Browns have an absolute stud in Myles Garrett. After that, things get murkier. Larry Ogunjobi has flashed as a promising interior disruptor, although he slowed down as last season went on. Avery racked up 4.5 sacks and 14 quarterback knockdowns, but nobody else topped four sacks or eight knockdowns last season. Emmanuel Ogbah looked like he might be a future difference-maker as a rookie, but the 2016 second-rounder has just seven sacks and 13 knockdowns over 24 subsequent starts, missing time with a broken foot and an ankle injury.

The Browns could use a second pass-rusher to play across from Garrett and scare opposing offensive coordinators. Dorsey came from Kansas City, of course, and I think the Chiefs are likely to cut Justin Houston. It might make sense to put two and two together there, even if new defensive coordinator Steve Wilks will be running a 4-3 as his base defense in Cleveland. The Browns ranked 25th against the run last season, so they might also look for a solid two-way veteran like Brandon Graham of the Eagles. Dorsey has four top-100 picks in a draft full of edge help, so it wouldn't shock me if the team invested one of its top selections in a defensive end.

4. Find help next to Ogunjobi. I want the Browns to sign Ndamukong Suh. They need someone who can punish opposing teams for doubling Garrett and have $71 million in cap space. Suh is 32, but the Nebraska product hasn't missed a game to injury in his career. He has been a steady interior presence, and this might be his last chance at getting a multiyear deal. A three-year, $45 million deal with $30 million in guarantees could make both sides happy. Also, it would make me happy.


5. Sign a deep threat. The core of Baker Mayfield's receiving corps is set with Jarvis Landry and David Njoku. Antonio Callaway fell in the draft because of serious, myriad off-field concerns, but he appeared to stay on the straight and narrow during his rookie season. The 21-year-old was stretched as a No. 2 wideout in 2019, and while he still has plenty of time to develop, the Browns started to carve out a role in the second half for Ravens castoff Breshad Perriman, whose speed stretched opposing defenses.

Cleveland could choose to bring back the free-agent Perriman, but it has room to upgrade and find a more consistent deep threat to serve as a contrast to Landry's short and intermediate work. Dorsey traded a draft pick to the Dolphins to acquire Landry, and you wonder if he might go back to Miami to make a move for Kenny Stills, who wouldn't have much utility on a rebuilding Dolphins team. Cleveland also could make a move in free agency for John Brown, who was impressive in the first half with the Ravens in 2018.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26020...agency-cuts#cle

1) We can do better than Perriman, and Perriman can do better by us. BM spreads it around well. Not AB, please. Too many issues to hurt us.

2) We can live with somebody being brought along. Just don't have them yet. Want to look hard at Combine & FA for players who can make the team and not wreck the locker room.