Ok, I can agree with that. I haven't spent much time in other Southern cities to have an opinion.
I have traveled through many states but not stayed there.
The only other Southern state I've spend time in (because of family) is Florida, and that state is such an anomaly it doesn't even count.
I get defensive because I was raised in a whitey white affluent Cleveland suburb full of snobs.
And here I am in Atlanta which is a melting pot community and a trillion times better culturally and socially and economically.
And yet people from around the country want to bash us.
Yet I have never seen an inclusive community anywhere better than Atlanta.
That is not to say Cleveland is bad. Cleveland has amazing ethnic cultures and history. But it doesn't get raised up enough or presented enough compared to the rest of the country. Nobody appreciates it. And it makes me sad about that. The only people I ever meet who know anything about Cleveland ethnic cultures are other Browns fans from Cleveland.
Southern culture is current hot button because the alt left need someone to throw spears at. We here all roll our eyes. And I know Cleveland culture is just as cool. I just wish all historical culture in this country got raised up. Because people don't know if you don't show them.
American history and culture is something that gets left behind in all our cities unless you raise it up. Doesn't matter what city you live in.
I am a firm believer that education and healthcare are something that every American should have free access to as a right and not a privilege.
South Korea does it the best by letting all it's 60 million citizens have nationalized basic health care and allowing people to purchase privatized supplemental health insurance to cover what the state basic insurance doesn't cover. It's a fantastic system that works great.
They also have strict limitations on lawsuits against doctors and hospitals unless it's proven to be gross negligence or homicide.
Doctor's get refunds on education costs if they work in a public hospital instead of a private one which encourages a lot of young doctors to serve the public needs early on in their careers.
Right now you can go to South Korea even without insurance and get great medical care cheaper than you can here in the states WITH health insurance. A lot of people from all over the world are flying to South Korea to get medical procedures done because it's a LOT cheaper and it's great quality.
Anyways South Korea PROVES that good healthcare can be found in systems where everyone has good basic medical healthcare and they are a capitalist country the same as ours. They just demand better from their government so they get it.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Losing a fake argument? perhaps. I've tried to find your 7% plan since you mentioned it. I've explained to you that M4A and Medicare are not the same thing. Yet you still tirelessly march on making up more stuff.
That said and jokes aside, because that was a joke. when has a Southerner ever been good for all America? The Clinton's? Maybe Carter. Another reason the Democrats lost to Trump is because they tried to cater to the South and ignored the Midwest, where labor is near its strongest.
The reason the Dems lost to Trump was because they were a divided party. They stonewalled Bernie and lost all those Bernie bros votes. Ask OCD if he voted for Hillary. Go ahead ask him.
The Dems are going to lose again unless they can be united.
I will say, I don't care much about Southern politics. I feel (and it has been repeatedly proven) that politicians in the South are corrupt.
And same for the North.
You can't deny that. It doesn't really matter where politicians are from. They are all power and money hungry.
So say it's Bernie vs Trump in the general, who you going to vote for between the two, no third party?
I would vote for Trump for purely financial reasons.
I think Trump is an idiot.
But Bernie is a cancer.
The cons you're listing of socialistic medicine are well known and facts that have been studied in multiple countries over the past 50 years. It most definitely isn't reaching or made up. If it makes socialism look bad it can't be true or HEY! It just wasn't implemented correctly that time!!!
There is a logistical problem when you try to extrapolate a tiny country like South Korea to a huge country like the USA.
Things that work on a tiny scale don't always work on a large scale.
Not arguing, just throwing it out there.
Not to mention...but, this:
Quote:
South Korea does it the best by letting all it's 60 million citizens have nationalized basic health care and allowing people to purchase privatized supplemental health insurance to cover what the state basic insurance doesn't cover.
Can you imagine the uproar here in the U.S. if we followed that system?
It would be "Hey, ain't fair. They can afford more health insurance than me......."
not really. its the system people are currently asking for.
please stop spreading false narratives.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
There is a logistical problem when you try to extrapolate a tiny country like South Korea to a huge country like the USA.
Things that work on a tiny scale don't always work on a large scale.
Not arguing, just throwing it out there.
South Korea is not a tiny country. United Kingdom only has 65 million people but you would not call them a tiny country. I mean compared to China the US is a tiny country when you compare 1.4 billion chinese to 322 million Americans.
South Korea's approach works because they focus on a complete answer to the problem vs 1 or two aspects of it. We have something similar here in the state of Indiana called HIP or the Healthy Indiana Plan. It's a state insurance that you pay for based on income level but that everyone can get for basic insurance. It's not the best insurance but it's reasonable insurance that even poor people can afford. I would have died without it because I am diabetic and at one point I had to take insulin shots. Now thanks to changes in my diet and medication I don't need those shots anymore but if I didn't have it at that time I would have died.
If it's good enough for me to have it then I think every citizen deserves to have it too. I want my fellow Americans to have good health too. Not to go blind or die because they couldn't afford simple medical procedures like they do in 3rd world countries.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
There is a logistical problem when you try to extrapolate a tiny country like South Korea to a huge country like the USA.
Things that work on a tiny scale don't always work on a large scale.
Not arguing, just throwing it out there.
Not to mention...but, this:
Quote:
South Korea does it the best by letting all it's 60 million citizens have nationalized basic health care and allowing people to purchase privatized supplemental health insurance to cover what the state basic insurance doesn't cover.
Can you imagine the uproar here in the U.S. if we followed that system?
It would be "Hey, ain't fair. They can afford more health insurance than me......."
And we'd be right back to where we are now.
We will never have a perfect system but that is not excuse not to have a better one.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
I also agree our current system is messed up. Way way too expensive. From Insurance to doctors to hospital stays, to prescription drugs, to liability insurance for doctors, hospitals, etc.
I am a firm believer that education and healthcare are something that every American should have free access to as a right and not a privilege.
South Korea does it the best by letting all it's 60 million citizens have nationalized basic health care and allowing people to purchase privatized supplemental health insurance to cover what the state basic insurance doesn't cover. It's a fantastic system that works great.
They also have strict limitations on lawsuits against doctors and hospitals unless it's proven to be gross negligence or homicide.
Doctor's get refunds on education costs if they work in a public hospital instead of a private one which encourages a lot of young doctors to serve the public needs early on in their careers.
Right now you can go to South Korea even without insurance and get great medical care cheaper than you can here in the states WITH health insurance. A lot of people from all over the world are flying to South Korea to get medical procedures done because it's a LOT cheaper and it's great quality.
Anyways South Korea PROVES that good healthcare can be found in systems where everyone has good basic medical healthcare and they are a capitalist country the same as ours. They just demand better from their government so they get it.
I have a good buddy that’s now an expat living in Bangkok, Thailand. He fell in love with the country when he travelled over there multiple times to have extensive dental work done. It cost him less to fly over, have his teeth worked on, stay for a few days on ‘vacation’ while recovering, then fly home, than it did for him to have the same work done in the states. Now he’s teaching English as a second language over there. He no longer worries about healthcare costs. The few times he’s gotten sick enough to need hospitalization (diverticulitis) he was able to pay a little extra to go to a private hospital. This on his teacher’s wage. The main difference he said between public and private hospitals over there is in a private hospital you get a private room. In the public hospitals you get put on a ward with many beds. The food is also a little better. He said it was worth the small extra cost. But the Thai people can have a system that we obviously can’t. I mean we are the ‘greatest country on earth’ according to some... how could we possibly implement something that almost all other modern societies have?.
Medical tourism is a real thing. It’s sad Americans have to go to such lengths to keep from having their health drive them to financial ruin.
Yeah, Atlanta is great. But even it is a lot more different than Memphis or Nashville, or Dallas or Austin. A lot of cities developed in different ways and have their own culture. I really want to get down to New Orleans and Mobile over the next two years.
Yeah, Atlanta is great. But even it is a lot more different than Memphis or Nashville, or Dallas or Austin. A lot of cities developed in different ways and have their own culture. I really want to get down to New Orleans and Mobile over the next two years.
Props to you. I really want to go to Savannah and Tybee Island for a summer getaway. Savannah has a lot of great history. I want to go to New Orleans as well.
Yeah, Atlanta is great. But even it is a lot more different than Memphis or Nashville, or Dallas or Austin. A lot of cities developed in different ways and have their own culture. I really want to get down to New Orleans and Mobile over the next two years.
Props to you. I really want to go to Savannah and Tybee Island for a summer getaway. Savannah has a lot of great history. I want to go to New Orleans as well.
I’ve been a lot of places. Both domestic and abroad. New Orleans is weird on levels and in ways that are very unique to New Orleans. I loved it. Great place. Weird. Unique. But great.
Couple pieces of advise both bad and good. Have fun but don’t wander off the main drag. If you turn a corner and it’s quiet, go back to the noise. It gets rough quick. Eat, eat, eat and eat. Man the food is amazing. Bring extra money for your food budget. You won’t regret it. I was pretty poor when I was there but knew to put my meager funds towards good eats. Glad I did.
I also agree our current system is messed up. Way way too expensive. From Insurance to doctors to hospital stays, to prescription drugs, to liability insurance for doctors, hospitals, etc.
I just want people to be able to live half way decent lives regardless of income. I mean to me if your working you should be able to have a roof over your head, food in your belly, get your kids educated, and see a doctor when your sick. I don't mean luxury or the high life but just the simple basics in life.
If you can't work then we ask why? Do you need help to get back in there or are you unable to work? Lets motivate people back to work who can and create jobs for them. If they really can't work then let's all chip in and do what needs to be done.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Eve, let's not go down the rabbit hole of thinking our healthcare is some great system. We rank far down on the healthcare list with the highest cost per person. Much of the free world has better healthcare than we do at a much lower cost per person. Those are the actual facts and I posted links to prove that.
And BTW- Alcohol is a drug. A drug that kills a lot of people. Just because it's a legal drug doesn't change that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Democracy, Capitalism, and Free Markets have been the best policies ever to lift Mankind out of poverty.
Just look around you at the failures of Socialism and Communism. China decided to dip a toe into the world of Capitalism a few years back and BEHOLD! They are now the worlds second largest economy! It works.
The fact that they couldn't totally kill Obamacare is why they HAD to come around, just a little bit.
You will never be able to answer why we rank lower in healthcare than many of these other nations in terms of care while ranking the highest in cost per person. So let me help you with that. It's because our system sucks.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Eve, let's not go down the rabbit hole of thinking our healthcare is some great system. We rank far down on the healthcare list with the highest cost per person. Much of the free world has better healthcare than we do at a much lower cost per person. Those are the actual facts and I posted links to prove that.
And BTW- Alcohol is a drug. A drug that kills a lot of people. Just because it's a legal drug doesn't change that.
The main reason our healthcare system costs so much is because we dont have price caps or law of averages (I dont know what its actually called, but Canada has a law that says big pharma cant charge more than the average price they sell a med for around the world)
Our Congress refuses to pass common sense laws that literally every other modern country in the world has.
Eve, let's not go down the rabbit hole of thinking our healthcare is some great system. We rank far down on the healthcare list with the highest cost per person. Much of the free world has better healthcare than we do at a much lower cost per person. Those are the actual facts and I posted links to prove that.
And BTW- Alcohol is a drug. A drug that kills a lot of people. Just because it's a legal drug doesn't change that.
I agree with you. There are definitely better ways to have healthcare than to let greedy people hold our life in their hands and then let them decide the price at anything they want it to be.
I prefer it to be treated as a right and to ensure all Americans can at least get basic care without being bankrupted by it.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
As far as healthcare (and education) goes ... it is pretty simple. Is it the right of the individual to have access to and receive quality healthcare? If yes - then what is the solution? Ditto education.
The dumb - smart ass responses that people already have access because they can walk into an emergency clinic have no clue. That's not quality healthcare. It also misses the point that prevention is nearly always cheaper than the cure. Not to mention emergency treatment is the least cost efficient way to treat anything but a genuine emergency.
Last edited by mgh888; 02/21/1904:49 PM.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
I've seen a surge in posters talking about socialism ... someone even posting how many deaths socialism in various countries of the world are attributed to socialism.
It's a totally false narrative contrived by Trump and the Right ... that's not what Democrats represent, it's not a slippery slope from capitalism to socialism if the Dems gain power. Anyone buying into this propaganda is simply parroting the fake agenda that Fox and co pump out.
I caught this at the gym this morning and thought it did a pretty decent job of highlighting the B.S. and how it is being weaponized.
Includes a mention of how Bill Clinton was dubbed a socialist - the guy is so far to the center it's not funny - but it shows this is a standard fear monger play by the Right.
You're completely delusional. The ideas of socialism, its impact, horrible outcomes have been around for a very long time. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump and is not a false narrative. Do you hide your head in the sand about the bad consequences or do you just pretend they don't exist?
I've seen a surge in posters talking about socialism ... someone even posting how many deaths socialism in various countries of the world are attributed to socialism.
It's a totally false narrative contrived by Trump and the Right ... that's not what Democrats represent, it's not a slippery slope from capitalism to socialism if the Dems gain power. Anyone buying into this propaganda is simply parroting the fake agenda that Fox and co pump out.
I caught this at the gym this morning and thought it did a pretty decent job of highlighting the B.S. and how it is being weaponized.
Includes a mention of how Bill Clinton was dubbed a socialist - the guy is so far to the center it's not funny - but it shows this is a standard fear monger play by the Right.
You're completely delusional. The ideas of socialism, its impact, horrible outcomes have been around for a very long time. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump and is not a false narrative. Do you hide your head in the sand about the bad consequences or do you just pretend they don't exist?
Clearly you didn't watch. But thanks for showing how you regurgitate the talking points you are fed.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you want socialism so bad why don't you move out of the US then?
I don't have any talking points by the way. The people who died from others wanting to do good and implement socialism, are all those people made up? Is greater than 100 years of economic study of different countries also made up?
Capitalism is the best system bar none. You need to educate yourself.
As far as healthcare (and education) goes ... it is pretty simple. Is it the right of the individual to have access to and receive quality healthcare? If yes - then what is the solution? Ditto education.
The dumb - smart ass responses that people already have access because they can walk into an emergency clinic have no clue. That's not quality healthcare. It also misses the point that prevention is nearly always cheaper than the cure. Not to mention emergency treatment is the least cost efficient way to treat anything but a genuine emergency.
I just watch to touch on the highlighted portion. Those that point out this concept, tend to froget that corporations don't give things away for free. While those that walk in get carem even if they don't pay the bill, SOMEONE is, and that someone is the rest of us. It lends to the part of the reason we pay so much, because we are covering the cost of those that can't pay and default.
I know we can't fix it by flipping a light switch, and I have posted my ideas over the years on ways to improve it and provide basic care to all.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Capitalism is the best system bar none. You need to educate yourself.
No it's not, please stop lying. It's one thing if you want to try to have these discussions, but ignoring all the points of your detractors just to repeat asinine talking points is 40 esque.
Did you ever get those numbers who died during the Holocaust, King Leopold's rule and the people who died due to American intervention?
How does the free market fix things like slavery and genocide? How does it deal with externalities?
The fact that you think Capitalism is not the best economic system has me rolling!!! I'm trying to grasp how on earth someone wouldn't share this belief.
You act like Capitalism is a new thing, a failed experiment or something. Have you compared the United States to other countries since its creation? I dare you.
-I'm not quite sure of the relevance of people who died during the Holocaust, King Leopold's rule who died due to American intervention. That has no bearing on the Capitalist system. Also, what the hell would you have preferred? For us to not have entered WWII after being bombed on our own soil? To not have tried to fight Hitler and stop him? The Japanese? Really? Huh? What?
-That's not the free market's job to fight laws of things which may be legal or illegal such as slavery and genocide.
THE FREE MARKET SYSTEM SHOULD NOT BE CONTROLLED BY THE GOVERNMENT.
That's what written laws are for, to curb wrong doing if someone is committing an unlawful act. The free market itself is made up of individual actors acting based on their own self interest, not the collective. However, this can add up, meaning if a business does something bad, not necessarily illegal, that people don't like then the business will fail and go down the tubes. You go out of business, that is the natural free market solution.
TB thinks the world should operate like the board game monopoly.
And just like monopoly, which is pure capitalism, one person ends up owning all the assets.
TB thinks it’s perfectly fine for the few to own all the assets.
Last edited by Swish; 02/22/1908:40 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I actually don't think capitalism is some new, young thing. That would be you who is doing that. I know that capitalism mainly saw most of its expanse and benefits during the feudal period, which why so many aspects of capitalism is based in the feudal system.
Read some John Smith, I know you mentioned his idea of an invisible hand, so I know you haven't read him. Read what the father of capitalism has to say about the structure and free markets.
You're not quite sure how King Leopold shows the failures of capitalism? Do you not know that Nazi Germany were capitalists who not only dismantled the welfare state of the Weimar Republic, but committed mass killings of socialists, communists as well as Jews, Romani and Poles. King Leopold's diamond mines don't teach you anything about capitalism? Really? What about the US's intervention in South America, the middle east or Vietnam? Do those wars against socialism and communism not count? They are more surrounded in capitalism than anything.
I think now you even admit that capitalism is immoral. You know the free market cannot correct immorality in the free market. That's why the end of slavery resulted in the bloodiest war that Americans have ever faced. Capitalism is the most immoral economic system around. The body count for capitalism, in just the last 100 years is well over 200 million people dead. That doesn't even take into account the 1600's-1800's.
In case you want one, here's a video about Capitalism and morality. Look it's a young Michael Moore!
The guy who helped advise Pinochet is the dude you're going to use as the basis of morality? What a joke. If capitalism isn't new, then why are you quoting intellectuals from 1900's?
Pinker pretty much encapuslates my views on the matter.
"It's so ironic when people talk about how much capitalism sucks...on an iphone."
Yes, it's ironic that people criticize capitalism on a phone created in "communist China" on an information network created by the government and ran by businesses.
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