DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns rebuild is over, and now John Dorsey’s job gets difficult: Doug Lesmerises

While they looked good down the stretch, all year a lot of the same issues appeared. The big one for me was the inability to stop the run. We made pedestrian RBs look very good at times. Offense still killed to many good plays with stupid penalties.

Coaches can help, but it is up to the ability of the player to execute. Execution also includes discipline. Not screaming at them discipline, I'm talking about the players ability to overcome frequent mistakes. When they become habits, they are harder to correct.

As to still building, I hope that never stops.

I don't believe you. I think you are trying to start another argument, because it wasn't the tanking that got the Cavs to the Finals. It was instead the return of LeBron.

Kyrie is a very good player, but we're seeing his true colors in Boston.

TT was a role player.

Winston Bennet? LMAO

Dion Waiters? Jared Cunningham? Sergay Karesev?

Tanking is easy. Destroying a franchise to lose is easy. Picking real players is not.

Dorsey is not doing the "easy" part. He is doing the "hard" part and thus far, he has been tremendous.

And tanking is exactly what got them out of cap hell, a way to ascertain multiple super stars and set up LeBron's return....

Again, what would you call the Cavs plan from when LeBron left to when he returned if it's not tanking?

Goodnight CHS.

Picking real players is easier when you are picking #1 and not #22.

NFL teams tank for the future too, they just don't admit they are as much. Oakland did it last year.

We have most certainly not yet 'arrived'. The rebuilding continues...a few more key pieces (and a little time) are still required.

As long as the "Under re-construction" sign is up, we're still rebuilding.

Our window is open RIGHT NOW ....

You’ll see ...

it's opening; I can feel the draft, but I'm waiting patiently for the big breeze...

I don't think Drew is going to be a free agent until a few more years...

I agree with those thoughts. We have talent on O, but our defence has to get better. HAS to, if we want to be elite.

...And

Astros tanked and won a World Series, nearly played in two..

Royals tanked and won a World Series played in two.

The Cubs tanked and won The Series. Heck they lost over 100 games and then lost almost another hundred just a few years before they won a ring.

The Marlins pretty much laid out the blueprint for this. They would tank terribly for years. Amass assets and then go all-out for a Title. It worked twice. You could even argue the Indians sort of did this too in the early 90's.

Semantics. No one has said we have "arrived." The word in question is rebuilding. In the past 3 years we've torn down everything and rebuilt. How many players are here today that were here when Pettine was the HC? Maybe 4? That undoubtedly has to be unprecedented.

In John Dorsey I Trust.

In 2018 all the talking heads and pundits had their draft boards ranked.

John makes his picks. The opposite of the pundits.

The collective sports world GASPED.

All of Browns Nation GASPED. I GASPED.

Turns out Mr Dorsey knew more than the talking heads.

And Everybody!

We have the QB of a lifetime.

And young talent to back him up.

Great picks in the 2018 draft all throughout.

I think I have faith that Mr. Dorsey will guide us through a strong free agency and draft.

We are in good shape. For once I feel like I don't have to worry.

I don't disagree. I just don't disagree with the point Memphis brought up. That is why I compared it to the building of a house. We are now in the finishing stage.

No doubt we want to go in to every draft hoping to find 2-3 players who can start or will become starting players. That is a never ending deal as the team cycles through players.

WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR!!?

j/c:

And.............the clueless agenda guys are out. Bye.

Never put the cart before the horse, the author of the article has the Dorsey/Browns taking a victory lap at the end of the first quarter.

Stupid assessment..

The Browns went from 0-16 to 7-8-1 that is progress but they still lost more than they won..

Hey now, don't be insultin Bozo!

Wow. At least you can admit it.

I’m saying it ....WE’VE ARRIVED ... it’s OUR TIME ...

You’ll see ...

Watch the power of talent, good coaching and a FO working hand in hand with each other ... org’s that have good people rowing in the same direction are a powerful force and that’s a WINNING FORMULA ...

IT’S OUR TIME ... WE’VE ARRIVED! ....

I don't disagree, hence the reason for the quotations. I was commenting more towards those who insist we need to prove it first.

I think bad things happen when we get ahead of ourselves.

We have alot of reason for optimism. But it really hinges on Baker and his development, and I think that's an unknown.

I'm not sure what to make of him not working with coaches this off-season. He sounded kind of cocky about it. Like he didn't need or he already knew it wouldn't help him. Maybe he's right and he's already done something similar and it was a bad experience or it didn't help him. He doesn't need to do what everyone else does. But he was pretty dismissive of it. Just hope he's right.

I think the Browns taking a huge jump is possible. I think Baker taking a step back is possible. I'm not trying to squash optimism. I'm as optimistic and excited as much as everyone else. I just don't think there are any guarantees.

Hype outweighs proof every time.

Freddie told him to get away from Football for a while. Maybe he's following orders

While I agree that OUR TIME IS NOW.... it’s still a prediction. That’s the main point I think some are hanging on to.

Outsiders have every reason to say we are just a slightly better “same old Browns”. We DO need to prove it before we go legitimately spouting off to PIT fans (for example). Otherwise you’re spouting off about something that hasn’t actually happened yet in like over 20 years and regardless of your confidence level... MAY not happen.

Freddie is right.... we haven’t done anything yet. Be excited but let’s not act like division champs until we’ve won our division at least once in the last decade. I’m hoping we check that box this year.

My one concern is depth.
If anything should happen to ANY player on that list, Browns become instantly average (perhaps sub-) at that spot.

Please don't get me wrong- I love everybody on that list. I'd just sleep a little easier knowing that we have backups who don't fall off the standard by quite as much. Still, that's the diff between drafting in 2019 as opposed to 2013-14: we can now actually draft for depth instead of drafting for need/hole filling.


#fingerscrossed

Haven't seen that one in a long time.
Dang, Dawg- pull it up from the archives... this term goes all the way back to the original board.

I get it ... Battered Browns Syndrome .... i don’t suffer from it .. I haven’t had high expectations for this franchise since our return ... i’ve always been a realist and never got caught up in the hype all but a few others have for most of the last 20 years ...

Last year when i looked at the roster that all changed ... this year by the time FA and the draft are over we should have more talent on the roster than last years team ... we will have as much if not more talent than anyone in our division ....

I’m not going to temper my expectations because others are “skiddish” because of un-realistic expectations in years past or they need to see it first ....

It may not be this year but there is no reason we can’t go from BBS to SBBB’s .. NONE .. we may not be there in 19 ... but theres a shot ...



The last 20 years MEAN NOTHING as far as the 2019 season is concerned ... NOTHING ....

I won’t talk crap to anyone other than my brother who is a stiler fan ... he deserves it ... *L* ... i’m not a “crap” talker ... and i won’t be after we do win the division and one day the super bowl ... not my style ...

Outsiders can think what they want ... i could care less about them ... they don’t know this team and what its capable of like we do ... or at least i do ...



I am excited ..... i’m not acting like we all ready won the division ... i’m actiling like we have a LEGITE SHOT at it cause IMO we do ... barring injuries ... i’m very confident we are CAPABLE of doing just that ...

My expectations are not UN-REALISTIC and based in fantasy .... look at what we did last year ... we finished 3.5 gamers out of the division under the following circumstances:

- the dysfunctional duo running the team for the first 8 weeks of the season ...
- a rookie QB who got exactly ZERO REPS with the first team until week 3 ....
- a new HC/DC and OC taking over the week of the bye ....
- a horrible reversed spot against the faiders ... we also had 4 to’s in that game and 1 was a pick 6 and two others set up 7 and 20 yard TD drives ...
- a missed xp and fg against the aints in anOT loss ...
- a blocked FG against the stilers that would have won the game on the last play ...
- 2pt. loss to the rats in the last game of the season ... we had our obligatory missed 40 yard or so fg ... our D in the first half was gauged by Jackson’s legs .. we shut them down in the 2nd half after we did what we should have defensively in the first half .. then the pass behind VG that would have put us in position to miss another FG to end the loss ...

Throw in an entirely new secondary ... Peppers played the same position as he did in 17 in name only ... a rookie CB that shined and could be a STUD .... a rookie LBer that made a difference and should improve heading into year 2 ... a rookie RB and WR, 2 new OLman one that didnt start til after the bye i believe ... and a new WR in VG ...

The PUPS will IMPROVE ... we had 5 rookies playing HUGE ROLES ... and a bunch of 2nd year players that should keep improving ...

We have a ton of cap space ... the #17 pick in the draft that is LOADED WITH DLman and a LBer that some covet .... we have plenty of ammo to move up to grab help in One of the positions we cold use help at .... we retained Freddie whose philosophy is to create a playbook that utilizes the talent on the team ...

Pitts gonna lose AB .. that’s HUGE .. that’s gonna change there O .. the rats are relying on a wishbone QB that was beyond innafective in the playoff game against a team they destroyed a mere two or 3 weeks earlier ... teams know how to defend him now ... they also lost the OZ ... don’t underestimate what that could mean ...

I’ve never been one that was afraid to go out on a limb and go against pretty much he entire board saying we weren’t going to be very good .. well i’ll go out on a limb again because i believe in what i see is happening with us and within the division ... its a different limb for me but i am very confident that it is not actually a shaky limb but a pretty solid one ...

Don’t let me forget we all ready added one of the best RB’s in he AFC ... he will miss some time, maybe up to 10 games but when he does put the orange helmet on .... WOOOOHOOOO ....

And FA hasn’t even started yet ...

I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't be optimistic or that we don't have a shot. Where do you get that crap from? Seriously bro, who in the hell is saying we should not be optimistic? Who in the hell is saying we have no shot?

Some are simply questioning whether or not it is a given that we are going to win the division and be a force in the playoffs.

Big difference, bro.

I didn’t say anyone said we had no shot ... thats not what i said at all ...

I said i wasn’t tempering my expectations cause some are “skiddish” cause of unrealistic expectations from years past or need to see it first ...

Even your cautiously optimistic ... i think everyone knows we have a shot ... i’m just stating its my expectation and how i arrived at it ...

I really hate to do this, Diam. However, it's "skittish," rather than "skiddish."

I don't know why, but I couldn't look at that again w/out saying something. LOL

lol, I was gonna correct him because it was so bad it just had to be taken care of.., glad you did it first

*L* ... its OK ... i actually appreciate it ... i’ve never said a thing about those ripping my spelling or grammer ...

It's grammar. Just saying. lol

j/c

Personally I don't think we can rightfully declare that the Rebuild is over until we've done something of consequence. 7-8-1 is great for us fans. It's great progress for the franchise. And much of the NFL seems happy for it and us.

But we didn't make the playoffs. We weren't even legit contenders for the playoffs. And despite the really great push in our own Division, we weren't in a position to seriously challenge for it.

I like our direction. I like our trajectory. I do think we are on the edge of being relevant again. But until we actually are, we'll still be in the rebuild phase.

A rebuild can be completed and it ends up being a bad rebuild. A 'rebuild' isn't just something that ends up with a winning record but an overall process of transforming a team, primarily with your starters. It can end up being a failure just as much as a success.