DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jamie Collins Released

Yeah, I thought the Dolphins were tanking this year.

j/c

I'm looking at this from a dollars and cents perspective. While it's true that we have current players that will need contract extensions down the road, let's look at what happened here.

If we wish to sign a guy like Mosley, if the savings I see posted here are true, we just cleared a 10 mil dollar down payment at signing a player like Mosley. If Mosley costs 15 mil, we just created 10 mil of that by cutting Collins. The net result of that is that we traded Collins for Mosely and 5 mil.

And the purge marches on....

We could probably sign 4 or 5 top end free agents with our cap space. We have no immediate problem with the cap. The problem is moving into the future, when our own guys come due for extensions. It's always a balancing act between having a lot of really good players, and having contracts that make sense. Baker and Myles are probably each going to be $20+ million/year players. Now for Baker, that's still 4 years into the future, but it has to be planned for.

I don't know what the sense would be in signing Mosley, unless we were going to move Schobert. (unless they feel that Schobert can move back outside)

I think that some moves, like Collins, are simply cost/value equations, and nothing more. Does Collins's value equal or exceed his contract? It did not. Therefore, he was either going to restructure and maybe be a backup, or be cut. He was cut. I think it was that simple.

Let me try this again. Since we just cleared 10 mil more in cap space by cutting Collins, if we signed say a Mosley, we would only be 5 mil less in cap space than we were before we cut Collins. Even before Collins was cut, some of the most conservative posters in terms of saving cap space were of the opinion that we would sign at least one big $$$ FA.

Nothing in terms of cutting high dollar players are "that simple". 89 mil. in cap space gives us plenty of room to sign one or two big time FA's and still be cost conscious for the future.

Like I said, when you look at the bottom line it makes a lot of sense. You make a HUGE upgrade at the LB position while only sacrificing 5 mil. in cap space after all is said and done.

I'm not predicting that's what will happen, but it makes a lot of sense.

Let's say that Mosley costs $15 million/year.

Schobert will probably not bring that amount next season when he becomes a free agent. This year he will cost .. maybe .. $1 million. Is Mosley worth $14 million more than Schobert? I don't think so. I don't think that's a wise use of available assets.

Yes he is. Mosley is one of the top LBer's in the NFL. I know some here actually think once an average player puts on a Browns uniform they become a super hero, but that's not actually true.

Why teams shouldn’t break the bank on CJ Mosley in free agency
BY AUSTIN GAYLE • MAR 5, 2019

C.J. Mosley is an above-average run defender with a first-round pedigree and five years of 875-plus defensive snaps under his belt. The young (26) ‘Bama product is expected to enter free agency as an unrestricted free agent in a class that lacks talent at off-ball linebacker, and the odds are that he signs a lucrative, multi-year contract that gives him top-five off-ball linebacker money for the aforementioned reasons.

But is he worth that kind of cash?

Diving into the five-year grades for every off-ball linebacker with 1,500-plus defensive snaps since 2014, Mosley’s 78.6 overall grade ranks 16th and his 87.0 run-defense grade ranks sixth among the 89 qualifiers. The concern is the replaceability (and therefore lack of value) of strong run defense and his lackluster coverage ability, as he ranks just 24th on the aforementioned list in coverage grade (73.8) and has earned a 73.0-plus single-season coverage grade just once in his career.

Mosley tied for 151st among qualifying defenders in PFF’s WAR (Wins Above Replacement) metric at 0.34 in 2018, and he tied for 25th among all off-ball linebackers; better coverage linebackers (i.e., Matt Milano, Cory Littleton, Zach Brown) all ranked significantly ahead of him.

In his career-best season from a coverage grade standpoint (2017), Mosley ranked seventh among qualifiers, but he has failed to recreate such a high mark in any other year of his career. His 66.5 coverage grade this past season tied for 17th at the position.

Good, not great coverage and strong run defense at off-ball linebacker can be added to the roster for far less than the price tag likely pinned to Mosley in free agency.



https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pr...-in-free-agency

He is superior against the run. He is nowhere near as good against the pass.

They actually had similar tackle numbers, though Schobert missed 3 games with injury. One of them had 0.5 sack, 0 forced fumbles, 0 fumbles recovered, 1 INT, 6 stuffs, and 5 passes defensed. The other had 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 2 fumbles recovered, 1 INT, 3 stuffs, and 6 passes defensed. The 2nd guy is Schobert, by the way.

The difference is in run game defense versus pass game defense. Mosley is superior against the run, and Schobert is superior against the pass.

So, which is more important in today's NFL? Is it to have a MLB whose strength is against the run, but less so against the pass, or visa versa?

I would rather have the guy who is better against the pass, especially on a team with a strong box safety like Peppers who isn't going to give you a whole lot against the pass. When you add in the $14 million or so more you have opined it would cost for Mosley, the decision seems easy to me.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Mosley is a talented player, and if we had a gaping hole at MLB, I would probably want him here. However, given that the team has to balance its spending to allow for future huge contracts for our own stars, I would rather see us upgrade at DT, and add another DE to the rotation, and I would replace Kirksey well before I would replace Schobert.

Yeah, I always thought he was a little overrated.

I actually agree with this, a lot.

He is kinda exactly the sort of linebacker that is getting victimized in today's passing attacks. The fact that he does the other stuff so well is what makes him valuable, however. I'm not sure that is enough to make him worth premier money.

It's a good thing that PFF isn't running NFL teams. We'll see what the market says he's worth and in case anyone missed it, you can't argue with the mans play on the field.

Quit the Hero BS. That is getting old.


You are basically agreeing with me, yet disagree. You said something about you had no problem trading for him at the price we paid. I said I had no problem when we traded for him.

Later you said he didn't earn the contract and he was a bum. I said I had no problem with his release.

Maybe we use different words, but to me it sounds like we agree. I am not sure why you are jumping on me?

We aren't going to miss him.

I am saying "We" as a team and Browns fans, not "We" as a cult.

Geesh

They aren't "running" things but teams retain PFF for their data.

Yes. Yes, you can. That's such a "straight from the gut" response.

*Devil puts on his burlap sack, wraps his headband, and lights some incense*

Out of curiosity Diam, does you condescendant attitude toward everyone give you some sort of discount on season tickets for the cheap seats? Do you get nosebleeds from being so high and mighty?

There's a lot of good football information, insight, and opinion 'round here. I've never understood why several posters have to bury it in unproven claims of superiority. Reading through a thread sometimes is like having to sit through an interview of Toni Grossi interviewing Toni Grossi mediated by Toni Grossi, each one trying to prove his own self importance is more important than their importance.


OF COURSE COLLINS WASN'T WORTH HIS CONTRACT! Lest you forget, there was a period in Brown's football where we had to over pay to get FA's here. I'd say the contract actually helped make the decision to dump Collins easier. If he was due half as much there might be a temptation to keep him.

P.S. The End is coming. Y'all better get right with Sashi the Saviour.

j/c:

I actually watch a lot of football games and I can say that Mosely is a very good LBer in both the run and pass game. People on here talk like they know things that they don't. It gets old.

With all of that said, I think the Rats keep Mosely. I think releasing Weddle is part of the process of them re-signing Mosely.

I'd be surprised if he's actually watched him play other than when playing the Browns.

Kevin Zeittler.

Kevin Zeitler and one of our 5th's for Olivier Vernon and their 4th which is very high in the 4th ...

JC.. General thought,

I was just going back to page one to read up on the Jamie Collins leaving the Browns move, but man!

What year is it, .. ya I checked, it's March 2019

When are we going to let Sashi die!

Or his time as a Gm of the Browns I mean. Talkin about digging up old dirt on a dead horse that's buried at a racetrack,

or some such analgy.

2 and a half years ago, there woulda been agreement that Ogbah is a heckova lot better than Ogunjobi,

So, people change, things change, it's not best to give up on people too early.

Here's a sentence I never thought I would ever type in response to one of your posts ....


I agree 100% (except that it's "analogy")

I thought that was "allergy"

Vernon will play DE here. If we don't draft someone that beats him out.

You're not going to draft a player who suddenly beats out the #70 rated player in the NFL. If you do, you just pulled of a miracle at #17.

The study of anal?